Why Expats Leave Mexico with Author Michael Dash

Sneak Peek:

Michael:    00:00:00    I felt my freedom was taken away. I never thought I would say this. Well, Mexico was the freest place in the world. In the world. There was nothing more free than Tulum, Mexico during Covid. A lot of people have been here. They're planning on moving here. They stay here less than six months, they're gone. This, this place can eat you up and spit you out. For sure, for sure.  

Kristin:    00:00:22    What do you think are the main reasons that they leave?  

Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests.

Kristin:    00:00:48    Hey there, Kristin Wilson from Traveling with Kristin here, and welcome to episode 254 of Badass Digital Nomads. I started this podcast to record conversations with the interesting people that I've met around the world in my 20 plus years of traveling. And today's podcast is a great example of just that. So, while I was in Tulum, I walked down the street to get a cacao bowl at a local cafe. I was sitting there enjoying my cacao, and I happened to overhear a conversation with two people sitting next to me. And the woman was sharing how she has been in a nomadic lifestyle for quite a few years now, but that she was really struggling with just kind of questioning her future. You know, she was like, what? You know, what do I do next? And in some cases, she was talking about how much she really appreciated the freedom that she had.  

Kristin:    00:01:48    And then in other, she was lamenting how she was almost too nomadic, and that whenever things would get difficult or frustrating in a place that she was living, that she noticed she had a pattern of leaving. So she would tend to move on to the next place as soon as things got difficult. And so I started talking with them, of course, having many years of experience in this lifestyle, and I invited both of them on the podcast. She was unable to make it, but the man that she was talking to happened to be Michael Dash, who was an author, former business owner, and currently a personal development coach. And I really enjoyed this conversation with him. I wanted to take clips and highlight so much of it because he was so open about his struggles, and also shared a lot about how he decided to move to Tulum and the highs and lows and challenges that he's faced there, and his advice for overcoming it.  

Kristin:    00:02:47    So I hope that you enjoy this conversation. Coincidentally, both Michael and I will be having retreats in Costa Rica in August. Mine is August 9th through 12th, and his, I believe is the 12th through the 16th. I'll link to both of those retreats in the show notes, and perhaps you can come to one or both of our trips. I'm going to try to stay longer in Costa Rica to go to Michael's retreat after mine, which is in the Gulf of Papagayo. So if you're thinking of making a longer trip out of it, this would be a great opportunity. We cover a lot of thought provoking topics here from safety to personal development, addiction, and more. I hope you enjoy.  

Podcast Interview:

Kristin:    00:03:34    Welcome back to Badass Digital Nomad. I'm here with Michael Dash, who's the author of the book Chasing the High. And we're just hanging out in Tropical Tulum at my apartment complex. It's a beautiful day. We are at Central Park Lagunas, which is full of pools and palm trees. And as Michael just said before we started, what a life <laugh>. What a life, Michael, how long have you been here in Tulum?  

Michael:    00:04:01    I've been here for three and a half years. I'm what they call a Covid baby. I came down for a week during Covidand I never left.  

Kristin:    00:04:08    Oh, Have you met other people who've done that too?  

Michael:    00:04:10    There's a whole group of us, yeah.  

Kristin:    00:04:13    A group of Covid babies. 

Michael:    00:04:13     Yeah, Covid babies in, in Tulum, Mexico. What a blessing. 

Kristin:    00:04:18    Where  are you from originally and where did you come down from?  

Michael:    00:04:21    I'm from New Jersey. Uh, I was living though in LA Okay. So I was living in, I, I am from New Jersey. I spent 13 years in Utah with, uh, my business. I had a traditional, uh, staffing and recruiting business for 13 years. Then I sold that and I went to LA didn't really enjoy LA was there for two years, and Covid happened and I'm like, I gotta get outta here. And  

Kristin:    00:04:49    How did you find-- 

Michael:    00:04:50     God brought me to Tulum.  

Kristin:    00:04:52    Yeah. How did you decide to come here of everywhere you could have gone, I guess?  

Michael:    00:04:56    Yeah. I had actually never heard of Tulum. Uh, so basically I was on Instagram scrolling and a friend posted a picture. It looked gorgeous. I asked her where she was. She told me she was in Tulum. I said, where's Tulum? <laugh> She said, fly to Cancun and I'll pick you up. It's an hour and a half drive. So I'm like, I'll be there in 48 hours. And that was literally it. I booked my flight, came down here, stayed at Holisitika for like, oh, beautiful. I was supposed to stay there for a week, stayed for three. And somebody offered me a place. And I like to say, Tulum moved me here. I didn't actually make a conscious decision to move here. I was just flowing and trusting my intuition.  

Kristin:    00:05:37    Everything was falling into place for you.

Michael:    00:05:39     Everything just aligned. And God wanted me here.  

Kristin:    00:05:43    I just discovered Holisitika yesterday, and I'm devastated that I only found it right before I'm leaving. So that's a great place to land. And we'll also link to, to that so I can see how you would come there and want to stay. And what were your first impressions of Tulum when you first got here from California?  

Michael:    00:06:04    There was so much going on in the world at that time with this whole covid. So there's so much noise everywhere. Right. Um, and I got to Holisitika and I was like, this place is like so cool. I just thought it was so cool. They have yoga all day. I'm not even a yogi, but they have yoga class all day. But then at night they would have like sound healings and ice baths and like, uh, dance, a static dance if you want. And like, art class. And like, uh, it was just like one thing fired stuff around the fire, and it was just like one offering after another. So I really enjoyed the ability to be able to do things every single night very easily. And then I slowly ingrained into the, uh, people here and the community is just amazing. Yeah. I was a little bit like, wow, <laugh>, this is an adult playground.  

Kristin:    00:06:57    Yes.  

Michael:    00:06:58    And that, that's kind of how I felt.  

Kristin:    00:07:00    I kind of feel like that about this lifestyle in general. Just being able to choose where you live and travel and all the experiences you can have. It's, I've been doing this for 20 years and I'm still blown away all the time. Just, uh, it's mind boggling actually. The level of freedom and also the interesting people you meet and the, the activities and things that you can do, and all healthy things, as you're mentioning, focusing on your creativity with art, doing yoga, eating healthy foods, just it's very much centered around wellbeing here. But then, so is California. So how was your life, your daily life, like in California be before coming here? Were you already involved with some of the same things or was it more of the standard nine to five?  

Michael:    00:07:45    I was running a business that was running me, so I wasn't actually in control of my life. I like gave it to the business and I had so many people pulling at me and I, I allowed that, I set it up like that. So when I went to California, I was on the spiritual path. I was on the personal development path at that point. Uh, and I was doing things like sound healing and I was doing yoga, but the people were, and the environment I was in, I was in Venice, it was like flooded with drug use,  crime. The homeless population was going through the roof at that time. And I was walking, I'd wake up in the morning and walk to get coffee and see somebody shooting up heroin or something, or smoking out of a spoon at eight o'clock in the morning. And that's not how I wanna start my day. And that's not really what I wanna see coming down here. There was none of that. And it was really just a breath of fresh air. I really had to. And they had all these, you know, conditions about not leaving the house and not getting together with people because of the covid thing  

Kristin:    00:08:50    In California?  

Michael:    00:08:50    Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin:   It was very strict.

Michael:   It was very strict. And I was like, I felt my freedom was taken away. I never thought I would say this. Well, Mexico was the freest place in the world, in the world. There was nothing more free than Tulum, Mexico during Covid.

Kristin:    00:09:07    I have heard this confirmed by other people as well. Yeah. I wasn't here, but that's what it seems like.  

Michael:    00:09:13    Yeah. And it's shocking because like, I grew up in the States, I spent most of my life in the States and home of the free, you know, but it wasn't that at all.

Kristin:   Right.

Michael:     But when I came down here, it was, I was shocked and yeah, I just kind of fell, fell in love with the community more than anything.  

Kristin:    00:09:28    How would you describe the community here for people who have never been?  

Michael:    00:09:33    So it is very transient. Uh, but all the people coming here are coming for a reason. Either they're healing from something, um, they're an entrepreneur, they're a nomad. They're into health and wellness, or they're very spiritual in the areas I spend my time. There's also a whole party section of Tulum. So you can come here and you can go to these clubs on the beach and you can get wasted. And I find no redeeming value in that whatsoever. That's not how I live my life, but I did, I used to live that life. Yeah. Um, and so if you're in that life, it's very fun. But on the other side, the spiritual growth, the health and wellness, the like-minded people and the music down here is awesome. All the best DJs come through here in the world. They come through here. Yeah. And there's amazing shows, especially in the beginning of the year, um, and just all the time I can go and find awesome music and I really love that I rediscovered my connection to music. I, in the States, I had lost it, like I was listening to music on the radio.  And it's just not the same.  This is like true. Like you can feel it from the heart. Oh yeah. What's being created down here  

Kristin:    00:10:52    That is very special. It's such a small place, but yet it does attract the biggest DJs in the world. And, uh, being based in Miami recently, that's really the only other place I can think of that has as many DJs as Tulum. I mean, maybe Iisa as well, but even Amsterdam, New York doesn't have as much going on as here. So it is very special for that. And, and then having been here for four and a half years.  

Michael:    00:11:19    Three and a half  

Kristin:    00:11:19    Or three and a half years, uh, do you feel like you also have a group of local friends in the community? Or do you feel like it's very separated between the transient foreigners and the locals? Not just locals from Tulum, but local Mexicans that have moved here from other parts of the country.  

Michael:    00:11:37    So yes the local Mexicans who's moved here from other parts of the country. It is a little separated from local Tulum people. Um, there's like where one place you find everybody gathering is on Tuesday nights at Palma Central, where there's salsa night. So you'll have locals and transients, and it's a great mix. And the vibe is so high.  

Kristin:    00:12:02    I went this week. Yeah. It was amazing.  

Michael:    00:12:04    Amazing. Right? Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:12:05    Yeah. It was probably the most unique, the one of the most unique experiences I've ever had in the mix of people. It kind of felt like a, a long time ago when I, I grew up in Costa Rica, not grew up, but I was, I spent a lot of my twenties in Costa Rica, and the first time I went there, I was only 20 years old. And I went to some places sort of like Palma Central, where there's salsa dancing and there's food and music and everything. And I saw a, a range of people, but mostly, mostly Costa Ricans. And this kind of brought me back to there except for instead of being by myself, I saw other people like me. You know, like I saw other travelers, I saw other digital nomads, I saw other local expats. I mean, it was just people from all around the world.  

Kristin:    00:12:55    And it was so surreal to think that okay, 22 years ago, I had a similar like feeling of the, the community vibe and the, the energy and the happiness. But in this case, I have never seen such a mix of people in one place, other than, you know, if you're in New York City or something. But I mean, like a gathering like that of, of local salsa dancing with foreigners and people taking salsa lessons at the same time and, and tourists sitting down and eating. But then also people who've lived here for five years, eight years, two and a half years, whatever it is, is very, very special, I think. Yeah. Um, and it does seem quite a good balance from what I've seen.  

Michael:    00:13:40    Yeah. I mean, that night is awesome. Uh, even if you don't dance, it's just the electric energy there and it's surrounded by food trucks and it's just a, a big dance floor and the fire spinners. And so, uh, yeah. It's one of the most enjoyable nights, right? Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:13:55    Every week. Yeah. You bring in that spiritual element. Yeah. And the, with the salsa music and everything.  

Michael:    00:14:01    Yeah. And I guess what I like most about Tulum is there's something for everybody. So if you, whatever you're looking for, you'll find it here. Right. Um, and the diversity of people from all over the world that come here are in Incre. It's incredible. You have every country here, lot of German people, a lot of Russians, a lot of Ukrainians, a lot of, uh, you know, people who hang out in Ibiza, a lot of people from the uk, from the us. So it's a great, great mix.  

Kristin:    00:14:32    Yes. It feels, even though it is transient, it feels a bit less transient than Playa in the sense that Playa del Carmen has. So it has cruise ships, it has more tourism. So there, it seems like there's more people passing through for the day or a couple days or a week. Whereas here, you, you get a good sense of that. There's like a core community that's here year round and, and less transient tourism. Maybe that's my perception after a couple weeks.  

Michael:    00:15:03    Yeah. I would say during the summer everyone leaves.  

Kristin:    00:15:06    Oh, Right. Yeah.  

Michael:    00:15:06    They all leave, they go to Ibiza.

Kristin:  Okay.

Michael:  So it's like Ibiza in the summer and Tulum in the winter. Tulum in the winter <laugh>. And you find a lot of people doing that. Um, so I would say that's the biggest trend that I've seen. I've stayed here, I don't know if I'm gonna, this summer, it gets super, super hot. Yeah. And, um, it's quiet, but you deepen the relationships with the people who do stay here. So that's a benefit of it. Right. You know, when it's busy season, there's so much going on, it's hard to really drop in with a lot of people.  

Kristin:    00:15:37    Just have some good bug spray maybe in the summer. <laugh>.  

Michael:    00:15:41    Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:15:41    Lot of rain or more rain and more mosquitoes.  

Michael:    00:15:45    It's not too bad. Not too bad. I've been in a lot worse places.  

Kristin:    00:15:49    <laugh>, that seems like the new snowbird Ibiza in the summer. Tulum in the winter, yeah. Very interesting times that we're living in right now. And so take us back to when you came here for this week or you stayed for a month. What was your process of detaching from California?  

Michael:    00:16:05    Flying back, breaking my lease and putting everything in a storage unit.  

Kristin:    00:16:10    And are you still paying state taxes in California?  

Michael:    00:16:14    I'm not. I, I never was a resident in California. I was a resident in Utah, so I'm still, I'm paying ta there's a tax exemption that you get if you're a nomad. Um, so I apply for that, but for federal or, or state to be, uh, I, I can't rem I think it's state. Uh, I think it's actually, I'm not sure. It's one of them. You have to be traveling. You can't be in the states more than 30 days.  

Kristin:    00:16:37    Okay. So this is the foreign income exclusion.

Michael:    00:16:38    Foreign for income exclusion. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's for, I'm not sure what it's for exactly.  

Kristin:    00:16:45    Yeah, that's too, um, basically you don't have to pay income taxes on the first, I don't know how much it is this year it was like 116,000 maybe dollars in income. You can, um, deduct that from your income tax.  

Michael:    00:17:02   Yeah.

Kristin:    00:17:02     If you're, if you're present in foreign countries for 330 days a year, so that doesn't include being on a cruise ship or flying from one place to another. You have to be literally on foreign soil for 330 days a year to qualify for that disclaimer, I'm not an accountant, but, well, I'll link to some accounting episodes in the show notes.  

Michael:    00:17:25    I think the only way they track it though is from your passport stamp. 

Kristin:    00:17:28    Your passport stamp. Yeah.  

Michael:    00:17:29    Yeah. So they don't know where you, as long as you're not in the US I think you are good with it.  

Kristin:    00:17:34    Right. You need to be out in another, in another country. So you just can't be a no man's land. Like if you're on a sailboat, I think that doesn't count. Like if you sail the world full time. But I've never tested that <laugh> out. I used to,  

Michael:    00:17:47    I mean, I'm down to sail the world, you know? That sounds fun.  

Kristin:    00:17:49    <laugh>. Yeah. So that's a good, that's a good benefit there. And then what is your cost of living like here?  

Michael:    00:17:56    Um, so it's interesting. I like always keep my cost of living the same wherever I go. And it just, the, the size of the place I live in will change, but I'll always keep it the same.   

Kristin:    00:18:07    So you're keeping your California cost of living, but you're living a bigger, higher quality of life here.  

Michael:    00:18:13    A much higher quality of life, Uhhuh. Um, it is, it's not cheap here. It's not cheap. 

Kristin:    00:18:21   Right.   

Michael:    00:18:21    But you can live on a budget. I just choose not to, I worked really hard not to live on a budget. Um, I, I mean, I, I live on some budget, but like, my place that I'm in, I have to be inspired by. So I have an, i I have an amazing place. There's 30 foot ceilings. I have a two bedroom and I have a private rooftop. And it's a house.  

Kristin:    00:18:40    You have a view?  

Michael:    00:18:42    No, I don't have a view. Oh, okay. I don't have a view, but, uh, I have a view of my dog, <laugh> <laugh>. Uh, but I, I, you know, I'm attached to a, a, a, uh, condo, uh, a place with some condos. Um, but it's tropical like this. And there's a shared pool, and I have my own private, like plunge pool on my rooftop.  And a big roof. So I have people over all the time and stuff like that.

Kristin:    00:19:06    Nice. And what's your rent there?  

Michael:    00:19:08    My rent is about 2100 us. 

Kristin:    00:19:12    Okay.  On a one year lease or Yeah,  

Michael:    00:19:14    Month to month? No, no, it's a one year. It was 2,500 and I negotiated it down. I've been there two and a half years now.  

Kristin:    00:19:21    Okay. Yeah. I was at another really nice house today, and he was paying I think 2,500. Actually, um, for, it was a villa. I don't know how exact, how exactly big it was, but, um, you could, yeah. I mean, that's about the rent I was paying in Miami, but you probably get a wait nicer place for that here.  

Michael:    00:19:41    It, it really, there's a lot of inventory now because there's just, there's so much construction going on. Um, what I would say though is if you are living with a roommate, like that price is cut in half. Right. And then it's a whole different experience. Right. So I just choose not to have a room. I don't want a roommate.

Kristin:    00:20:00    Right.  

Michael:    00:20:02    So I think it's a good, but you can find a one bedroom for like 1500.  

Kristin:    00:20:08    And are you, I know someone here who's renting 1200. 1200, but for one month. So I think you could get it down to 900. She's actually moving to another place for 800 for next month.  So yeah, there's some good, some deals under a thousand, but it's not gonna be a two bedroom penthouse with a-- 

Michael:    00:20:25    No <laugh>, there won't be anywhere in the world. Maybe Bali, uh, I don't know.

Kristin:    00:20:30     Uh, yeah, maybe Albania. Yeah. Bali, Montenegro. And so are you working now or did you retire after your, uh, selling your business  

Michael:    00:20:42    Retire? I wish I could retire. <laugh>. Um, well, I guess I could, I mean, you could do whatever you want, right? Um, no, I'm working. Um, I have, uh, several projects that I'm involved in. So when I was in the States and I had the staffing business, the reason I got out of the business is I was in a six year legal battle with my ex-business partner. And that I spent over $1 million on my own attorneys.

Kristin:   Oh my God.

Michael:  Over a $350,000 case.

Kristin:     What a nightmare.

Michael:   It was a blessing in disguise. Ah, I didn't realize it. Um, but it was a blessing. It allowed me to leave the business and start working on myself in the areas that I really didn't like how I was showing up. And, uh, so I settled that lawsuit at the end and then sold everything I had to pay off that legal debt, all my debt, all my debts.  

Michael:    00:21:30    Yeah. Sold my houses, sold the business, sold everything. Started my life again. And I wrote a book called Chasing the High. Um, and it's Chasing the High on Audible and Amazon. Um, and it's basically, it's an entrepreneur's mindset through addiction lawsuits and my journey to the edge. I had 20 years of addiction in my life. Um, I was addicted to gambling, cocaine, uh, Adderall, GHP, and marijuana and money. I was chasing money all over the place

Kristin:  at the same time?

Michael:  Um, or in different phases at there were different phases, uh, gambling. I started gambling at 10 years old. I was introduced to it by my uncle. So I had money then. 'cause my dad was an entrepreneur and I worked on the weekends. So I even was $20. I was gambling it at 10 years old.

Kristin:  Oh Wow.

Michael:  So that started a nice trend of 20 years of daily gambling, basically daily gambling.  

Michael:    00:22:24    Uh, then it became a bookie and went through the drug dealing phase in college and all this stuff. Um, the Adderall and GHP, they came way later, uh, after I had been sober from gambling and cocaine. I found these, when I moved to Utah, these things were introduced to me. Yeah. It's been a life of lessons and learning, and that's why I wrote the book so that others don't have to go through the same challenges I did and, um, can hack them. You know? Um, so when you, getting back to your question, do I work? Yes. I'm a coach. Uh, I coach executives. I coach leaders in the person in personal development, but they're usually, uh, running businesses or have big communities and things like that. Um, because I went through this amazing transformation and now I really help raise the level of consciousness, uh, amongst the leaders.  

Michael:    00:23:18    And I run retreats. That's what I'm super passionate about. They're called Live Life activated. Hence my shirt, my activated shirt.

Kristin:   I like that hashtag activated.

Michael:   Thank you. Thank you. And, uh, yeah, I run retreats in Costa Rica every year. I have one August 16th through 21st and

Kristin:   I might go to that.

Michael:   Yeah. I would love, I would love it. Um, and it's for leaders who are looking to align their physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual practice with their mission and vision in life. Uh, and, uh, this is the sixth one I'm doing, and I went to a retreat in Bali in 2016, and it changed my life. And so I kept going to retreats. I been over 25 retreats, and eventually I took a little bit of all these masters I learned from and started running my own and put my own spin on it with my own subjects and topics that I've been, uh, uh, studying under for, for years.  

Michael:    00:24:11    So I'm super, super passionate about this retreat. It's at a place called IMILOA Institute, which is gorgeous. One of the most gorgeous retreat centers you oversee. Where is that? It's next to Dominical. Okay. Not in itself. And it, it's like perched on a mountaintop in the middle of the jungle overlooking the ocean. There's Bali houses there that they ship from Bali that sit on the land. There's domes that you can stay in. It's amazing. And, uh, I put my heart and soul into that. And then the last thing I do is I'm a part, uh, owner in, uh, men's group called Men of Means. It's an online men's group teaching healthy masculinity.  

Kristin:    00:24:50    Is Te-Teemu in there?

Michael:    00:24:52     Yes. Teemu was in that as well. Yeah. Uh, you met Tim.  

Kristin:    00:24:55    He was telling me about it.  

Michael:    00:24:57    Okay, great.  

Kristin:    00:24:58    And I was at, I was like, what is a men's group? So what, what would you say is the mission of this group?  

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Kristin:    00:26:47    What is a men's group? So what, what would you say is the mission of this group?  

Michael:    00:26:52    The mission is to create a safe space for men to open up their emotions and share the emotions that they're going through in various a aspects of their life. And to teach and practice healthy masculinity and brotherhood. Okay. So that the, the old notion of you're a man, don't show your emotions. You need to have all your shit together you can beat that. Bleep that out if you need to. No, it's okay. Um, is, is is like a foolish notion. It's old school. Yeah. Like, it's not how we live today.  

Kristin:    00:27:26    Humans have emotions, not just women. <laugh>.  

Michael:    00:27:27    Right. All humans. We're all human beings, but we've been taught by our fathers and they've been taught by their fathers not to show emotion, that it's a sign of weakness. And that even if things aren't going well, just pretend that they are. You need to hold it together. And, um, you know, I subscribed to that theory for a long time and it drove me to depression, to addiction, to a lot of these other things. You know, I'm not sure if you're aware, but the suicide rate amongst men is over 80%.  

Kristin:    00:27:58    Over 80%.  

Michael:    00:27:59    80% of suicides are men.  

Kristin:    00:28:01    Oh. Oh, okay. Sorry.  

Michael:    00:28:03    Say Yeah. Yeah. So, so when you look at the suicide rate, it's men who are killing themselves. When you look at mass destruction shootings, it's men. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And when you look at addictions, it's men. There's women too. But look at porn addiction for the majority. Porn addiction, for instance, it's mostly men who are addicted to porn and things like this. And, um, believe me, there's equally addictive challenges in the female communities, but, uh, specifically with men, you know, we isolate, we hold things in, we don't share. And 'cause we've been taught it's not safe. So these are the things we, uh, we practice in this group. And it's just transformed so many lives. And, um, it's menofmeans.org if anybody's interested. 

Kristin:    00:28:56    and people can join remotely or ?

Michael:    00:28:58    It's all online. It's all online. We're looking to impact a hundred million men. Our four principles are radical ownership. So taking ownership of everything going on in your life. Radical honesty, being honest, not, not just with everybody else, but with yourself. When you make yourself a promise, you know, keep keep through with it because you might think no one's watching, but God's watching radical integrity, being integral with your word and play. And not take life so serious. 'cause men take life so serious all the time. Right. So it's all about playing and getting back into your child. You, you know, the child that you were born into this world with. I love that. So, yeah. So if anybody's interested, maybe you can leave a link and they can connect with me. And I'm glad to talk more about it. I'm super passionate about all these things.  

Kristin:    00:29:47    Definitely. We'll definitely link to that. And I support this mission.  

Michael:    00:29:52    Thank you.  

Kristin:    00:29:53    As a female. Thank you. I think I hope of eight, 5 billion men. How many men are there on the world? Let's get everybody in <laugh>.  

Michael:    00:30:00    Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's break Zoom. Let's break it.  

Kristin:    00:30:05    You need, you need to, uh, maybe, uh, franchise this into every country and continent and get everybody in different languages we're  

Michael:    00:30:13    we're  working on it.

Kristin:    00:30:14    and women  too, you know, but we have more of, more resources, I would say.  

Michael:    00:30:17    Yeah. There's a lot of women's circles right down here. That's one thing too. There's a lot of women's circles you'll find supported men's groups. Uh, you'll find a lot of that here at Tulum also, which is great.  

Kristin:    00:30:27    Yeah. So is there any commonality in how you broke all of these addictions? Did you use the same process or the same tools, or did you approach each one in a different way?  

Michael:    00:30:42    I first went to Gamblers anonymous. So I used the tools of the anonymous program and they saved my life. So I had that as a baseline. That was really the first personal development I was doing before I really even realized I was doing personal development. Right, right. They didn't have a phrase, personal development for it back then. Um, so I've had that foundation, and I know these principles, however, each one of these things I quit has its own story around it. Uh, so there was no commonality. Some was just willpower. Others was, an event happened like co like I was in New York City and I was with a friend and we were out at a bar. We were doing coke. And he like got in an argument with some guys. I went over to break it up and I got punched in the face, but I, I was trying to break it up accidentally. It broke my nose. Ah. So I had to get my nose redone. So I went to the doctor and they fixed my nose and he handed me a bill at the end, and it was $10,000. And I looked at the doctor and I looked at the bill and I looked back at the doctor and I said, I will never put anything up this $10,000 nose again. <laugh>. And I quit cocaine. That

Kristin:  Cold Turkey.

Michael:   Cold Turkey. I've never done it since. And I'll never put anything up my nose again.  

Kristin:    00:32:03    You paid a lot of money for that.  

Michael:    00:32:04    Paid a lot of money for this beauty. <laugh> <laugh>  

Kristin:    00:32:08    A joke with me that my nose, my nose was broken by a football when I was a little kid, but I don't remember <laugh>. They didn't fix it. Right. Yeah. Well, interesting. 'cause yeah, I, last year, I actually did a podcast about this last June. I quit coffee and processed sugar and gluten, like any kind of refined carbs or sugar. And within 24 hours of each other, I haven't had anything since then. No rebels, no tea. Like, just, yeah. And I think that there's something, well, I did it through reading these books by Allen Carr. I don't know if you've heard of him. He has books on how to quit drinking, how to quit smoking, how to get over your fear of flying, like any kind of psychological addiction, which I guess most addictions are, it could be a combination physical with psychological, but  

Michael:    00:33:03    They start off psychologically. Right. And then they can morph into a physical Yeah. Need to keep your body like regulated. That what it's used to.  

Kristin:    00:33:12    Yeah. And, and just after going through that, which was not a life or death experience, but I've thought more about habits and addictions and, you know, we're so impressionable as humans, we're absorbing what's going on around us in our environment. Whether it's just, uh, nature, it can calm us walking through the forest, forest bathing, if it's, if there's chemicals around it can irritate our eyes, our skin, our, our lungs. I've been coughing so much because of the dust, the exhaust, the mold and the air conditioning, things like that. But then we're also influenced so much by the people around us, the culture, how people talk, accents, and then also advertising society. I mean, there's so many layers to it. And what I realized in, I drank coffee for 20 years, what I realized in eliminating that caffeine addiction was that sometimes it can just be like a key or a shift that happens that can liberate you from something. And it just made me wonder how many things are we addicted to that we don't even really realize it, you know, being addicted to drama or  

Michael:    00:34:24    Being addicted to our phone drama. That's a big one. Oh, the phones, I mean, social media's the biggest,  

Kristin:    00:34:28    I'm definitely addicted to my phone.  

Michael:    00:34:30    Yeah. Yeah. I, I would tend to agree. I go in phases. Um, but coffee's a big one for me right now. Yeah. I'm drinking a lot.  

Kristin:    00:34:38    Read that book.  

Michael:    00:34:40    You know, that for me, it wasn't told, I'm not sure I wanna quit.

Kristin:    00:34:42    Right.  

Michael:    00:34:43    You have to have the desire first. That's because I like, part of the coffee thing for me is routine and ritual. I love having a coffee and reading in the morning before.  

Kristin:    00:34:54    My mom loves it. She's like, I don't wanna quit. You're crazy. She's like, I'm not reading that book. Yeah. Yeah. If you love it, if it's a part of your life, then you know, it's not.  

Michael:    00:35:03    But let's see, maybe sometimes, you know, they tell you like, quit everything for 30 days and just focus a hundred percent on, or even, or three months I think they say. But, but just try 30 days, quit everything for 30 days. That's like, could be considered unhealthy. And just do drop everything and focus everything into what you're trying to accomplish, whether it's your business, whether it's a, a physical goal, whether it's a relationship. And put all your attention on that for 30 days and see where you are after those 30 days.  

Kristin:    00:35:39    I wanna do that. I will take on that challenge because it, I, I think we don't even realize sometimes how much our attention is being split up. Everybody feels busy. Most people feel busy. And then everyone has responsibilities. But I think if you look at your day, minute by minute, if you look at your app on your phone, how many times did you pick up your phone that day? How long did you spend answering messages, answering email? It's, it, it's a big challenge to be able to just cut out all of the noise and get really focused on what it is. And even picking one specific thing, whether it's physical, whether it's career oriented. Have you ever done that? Have you ever, like,  

Michael:    00:36:21    I've done, uh, a couple things. So like, I always try to do something physical every year. So I set a big physical goal for myself and accomplish it. I ran for marathons. I climbed Mount Kilimanjaro. In fact, the cover of this book, this is from the top. That's what I thought. This is from the top of Kilimanjaro. 

Kristin:    00:36:39    That's  what it looks like. Is that snow? Yeah. Okay. What time of year did you climb it? Because I know, I've seen the photos.  

Michael:    00:36:45    It was snowing,  

Kristin:    00:36:46    But then sometimes it's mostly the brown.  

Michael:    00:36:48    No, it was cold. Was was, yeah, I think it was like September, October.  

Kristin:    00:36:52    How did you train for that?  

Michael:    00:36:55    Well, I was raising money for Leukemia Lymphoma Society at the time. And there's an organization called Team in Training where they train you for the races, mostly for marathons. And you raise money for leukemia at the same time. And they support you through it all. Okay. So I literally started and, and this event was through them. So I started training as if I was running for a marathon. Um, and, but I started hiking and I was living in Utah at the time. I was hiking. There's gorgeous mountains in Utah. Um, and I was hiking a bunch of mountains, but I'm doing a race this year called 29029 Everesting. And it's in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. And you basically climb the mountain and take the gondola down and climb the mountain and take the go gondola down three times. No, you do it until you reach 29,000, 29 feet and you have 36 hours to do it. So it's like 17 trips up and down. Oh my gosh. You do it all night until you get it done. About 60% of the people finish it. So I'm training for that now. But since there's no Mountain, Tulum is one of the flattest places in the world. Um, I'm just running  

Kristin:    00:37:59    Basically flat limestone rock.  

Michael:    00:38:01    I'm just, I'm just running right now, running the heat. So I'm gonna take some, yeah, I'm gonna take some trips, um, and go to some mountainous places and go on some hikes to get me ready.  

Kristin:    00:38:11    Okay. Yeah.  

Michael:    00:38:12    Wow. That's, so that's my goal, my physical goal for this year.  

Kristin:    00:38:15    Were there any moments climbing everest that you,  

Michael:    00:38:18    Kilimanjaro

Kristin:    00:38:19    Yeah. Kil-Kilimanjaro that you maybe thought twice about that decision? Or were you just  

Michael:    00:38:25    Yeah, no, I thought, uh, what, actually, let me think. Lemme take a deep breath here.  

Michael:    00:38:38    I mean, I don't know if I thought what, you know, that I, I wanted to quit. I don't think I ever thought that. But I was sore. I was beat up. And it was so much fun. Also, every time you got to the new next, the campsite, the African people were dancing and singing. Oh. And they welcome you with open arms. But it was cold. And, uh, I had an interesting person in my tent, so that was interesting. And, uh, yeah, no, it was a great experience. I, I may do it again. Okay. It was just a wonderful experience.  

Kristin:    00:39:08    My friend of Matt Bowles, he's the host of another podcast called The Maverick Show. He did it with minimal training, I think, but he's in pretty good shape anyway. And yeah, he, he echoed the same thing. It was challenging, but he's glad he did it.  

Michael:    00:39:21    Yeah. It was one of the coolest experiences of my life.  

Kristin:    00:39:24    And have you traveled anywhere else around Mexico or the region?  

Michael:    00:39:29    Yeah, I've been to Valle de Bravo in Mexico. Amazing spot. If you haven't been there. No, I haven't been. You should go there. Haven't. It's got some mountains. It's got some L-Lakes. Um, it's got, it's got a little bit of everything. Mexico City, some of the best food in the world in Mexico City if you haven't been there very, a lot of people. But the food is amazing. The arts, the museums beautiful, of course. Cabo and Puerta Vallarta. And uh, um, there's a place called San Pancho, which is right next to Sayulita. It's on the other side of Mexico. Okay. It's an amazing spot. It's like a, I don't surf, but it's like a surfing type spot. Amazing little restaurants and music. It's such a cute place.

Kristin:  San Pancho.

Michael: San Pancho.

Kristin:    00:40:13    Wow.  I've heard of Sayulita, but not there. 

Michael:    00:40:14    Right next to Sayulita. There's a amazing women's, um, uh, community center there. Um, well, it's not just for women, but it's a community center started by women. And I sponsor one of the kids there to go to college. So they raised money to put the kids through college and stuff. So I was one of the sponsors for this. Uh, this girl I just went, she graduated a couple months ago. I was there. So yeah, I've traveled all those places in Mexico, but there's so much more I haven't. Oh, yeah. And I haven't been to Chiapas, so I haven't been to, uh, a bunch of other places. Yeah. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:40:47    Such a big country. Yeah. Is that part of the sponsoring the kids over there? Is that part of an organization or something individual that you did?  

Michael:    00:40:57    I did it individual. But I went with this organization like five, six years ago for entrepreneurs taking 'em down there. Somehow I got connected and Oh, okay. I was like, yeah, let's go. And then I was inspired by the women's and what they did there, and I decided to sponsor somebody. 

Kristin:    00:41:14    Awesome amazing. So the reason you're on this podcast is because I overheard a con a conversation you were having with somebody at the same cafe. I was sitting at the same table, and it was so interesting. I was kind of, you know, oh, hey. You know, sorry to interrupt, but this is an interesting conversation. Uh, you and a friend were talking about. I, I didn't hear the whole thing, but just some of the context was about, I think she was mentioning how grateful she is for this lifestyle of freedom and being able to travel and work from anywhere. I'm not sure what she does for work, but that she was kind of coming up against this recurring feeling or challenge that she was walking a fine line between moving on voluntarily for reasons that she felt happy about versus running away from something or leaving a place when it gets too difficult. Uh, what was your perception on that? And have you had any feelings similarly?  

Michael:    00:42:17    When I first got here, I was here probably six months, and I lost my phone three times. So I got three new phones and like, uh, six week period. And it's not easy to get a phone when you're in Tulum. There's no place here. You have to go to Playa and then you have to go to, or Cancun. But if you have insurance on a phone in the US, you can't get a mail down here. Ah. They will take it at the border. Patrol will take it, and they'll make you pay the value of the phone to get it back into the country. So you have to wait till a friend comes basically. Unless you want to pay the same price you'd pay. But what's the point of having insurance then? Right. So I had a big challenge getting a phone and then getting another phone and then another one.  

Michael:    00:43:13    And I was like, man, I think may, maybe the world is like, God is telling me something like I'm not supposed to be here. Like, why, how am I, how am I losing my phone? Like, and it was like I would be riding my scooter, it would pop outta my pocket be gone. Or like I left it somewhere and, you know, I can't even remember all the instances, but the scooter thing happened multiple times. And, um, I was questioning if I could be here, I could stay here. And there was some chaos going on because there's so much going on here that you want to go to everything. Especially when you first get here. Right. You're like, I'm gonna go to this, this, this Monday through Sunday. There's an event every night. Yeah. And every day there's multiple events. And you know, I was, you know, chasing, I was meeting all these people, so I was chasing all these people, you know, was trying to hang out with this person, this person, this person. And it was challenging. Like, I was going crazy. I was going a little crazy. And then I, then I decided I gotta ground myself because, you know, we're on water here, we're surrounded by cenotes here in Tulum, so it's all water. So everything flows here people cancel on you all the time. They're late all the time. It's just like part of the lifestyle. It's accepted.

Kristin:  Yeah.  

Michael:    00:44:29    And I've had to come to kind of terms with that. And I understand now if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. And if it's not, it's not. I don't take things personally. Uh, but I did for a long time because what the most valuable thing that we have in life is time. We can't recreate it. It's not money. We can make money, lose money. Spend money. Find money. Right. It is time. So that was challenging for me to kinda come to grips with, but once I did like a day like yesterday where three things today canceled. I was like, oh, okay. 

Kristin:    00:45:09    <laugh>  

Michael:    00:45:09    What am I gonna--

Kristin:    00:45:11    You can't control.

Michael:    00:45:11     I'll go to the spa <laugh>, I'll go work on, uh, you know, some more, uh, some more posts or something.

Kristin:    00:45:19    Yeah. You gotta have a plan B and a plan C, <laugh> sometimes a plan D and sometimes no plan and just  

Michael:    00:45:27    Flow.  

Kristin:    00:45:27    See what happens. 

Michael:    00:45:29   Just  flow.  

Kristin:    00:45:29    Yeah. Yeah. My plan has been more of an outline and then it's changed. Yeah. Very fluid here. Very fluid. Have you met any people that couldn't hack it or they just said, you know, not worth the effort or not a good fit for me here.  

Michael:    00:45:45    A lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people have been here, they're planning on moving here. They stay here less than six months, they're gone. This, this place can eat you up and spit you out. For sure. For sure.

Kristin:    00:45:57     What do you think are the main reasons that they leave?  

Michael:    00:46:00    They surround themselves with the wrong people. They get into partying. They, you know, when, when the music scene comes here, these parties are ridiculous. There's like 30,000 people at these part, at these music festivals. One after the other, after the other, after the other. You just burn yourself out. Ah. It's not easy in the sense of most people don't have cars. They have scooters. Motorcycles. So break down a lot. You know, if you don't know the right people to call, you don't speak the language. It can be challenging. Um, the phone service can go out. You know, electricity can go out multiple times a week. 

Kristin:    00:46:39      Yeah.  

Michael:    00:46:40    Uh,These things can happen. You have to realize you're not living in America. You know, you're not living in a, you're living kind of, it's still, there's a little third world ish, um, that you experience in Tulum. Cancun and Playa. That's a whole built city. This is not this is not a city yet. They're turning it into it, but it's not. So you have to be okay with those things. Wifi is spotty in a lot of places. So these are all reasons that people, you know, also getting money in and out. If you don't have a bank account here, it's not so easy. You know, I got a bank account luckily. So it's super easy now having a bank account, but without a bank account, it's challenging. So these are all different variables that you have to juggle, but once you're here and you get settled in, you find out all the local things, all the tricks and the trade, then, uh, it's a lot easier to manage.  

Kristin:    00:47:36    How long did it take for you to feel like, okay, I've got this, I have my community, I have my, my list of people to call when I need help or when things go wrong?  

Michael:    00:47:45    Probably a year. 

Kristin:    00:47:46    Okay.  Yeah, probably. And do you have residency now?  

Michael:    00:47:49    I have re I have temporary four year temporary residency. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:47:52    Okay. And do you plan to get permanent? 

Michael:    00:47:56    Yep. Yeah.  As long as I stay.  

Kristin:    00:47:57    <laugh>. Right. You're so, yeah. It seems like you've  

Michael:    00:48:01    Been Yeah, I bought land down here, so. Oh, okay. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:48:05    Seems like you've been through the roller coaster curve of culture shock and, and  adaptation.

Michael:    00:48:10     For sure. For sure. Yes, for sure.  

Kristin:    00:48:12     So do you have any re-- uh, advice or recommendations for people that are planning to move here? Maybe not even just Tulum, but to Mexico, or they've tried living in other places. Maybe Nicaragua, Panama, Costa Rica, and they struggled with those things?  

Michael:    00:48:33    I would say it's important to have a nice balance of structure and flow and to the things you have to get done, get them done before you leave the house. Because like in a place like this, once you leave the house, you start walking somewhere, you see one person, you know, you meet another person, they're inviting you here, they're inviting you there, all of a sudden, you know, your whole day gets away from you. And it could be a beautiful day, but if you have things to accomplish, then you need to stay focused and get that stuff done before you play in these other areas. Right. Um, and then I would say, uh, yeah, really get some roots. Get some basic functions down, like money, how are you gonna bring money in and out? Um, and, uh, uh, your wifi if you're living somewhere make sure that you have fiber and that you, the before you move in, that the, uh, landlord will take care of that for you. So, and don't ever pay a taxi here in Tulum. They gouge you.  

Kristin:    00:49:35    Yes, I know. It's, I had to take a taxi the other day just down the street, and I asked him how much when I got in and he said, how much do they usually charge you, <laugh>? I just said 50. And he said 150. And we settled on a hundred, which was more than it needed to be, but I just was like, I am, I'm a greena, like I'm a foreigner. Even though I speak fluent Spanish, I'm not going to expect to pay 27 pesos or whatever the locals are paying for the taxis. I know, you know, but I also have a scooter and a car. So that was just a one time thing, but I thought that was a funny answer.  

Michael:    00:50:14    Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:50:15    How much do, how much do my campanero charge you? <laugh>

Michael:    00:50:21    Well, it looks like you're, you're pimping here. You got a car, a scooter, and now a taxi service.  

Kristin:    00:50:27    Yeah. I lost that guy's number. Fast. <laugh>. Well thank you so much Michael. And where can people find your book and also connect with you on social media?  

Michael:    00:50:37    Yeah, I'm on Instagram. It's just M-D-A-S-H-1, mdash1. I'm also on LinkedIn, Facebook, all the things. Um, my book is on Amazon and Audible called Chasing the High. I read it on Audible. So if you'd like to have a lovely New Jersey accent in your ear for four hours right here. And the men's group is menofmeans.org. And also you can just message me about the, uh, the men's group and I can get you in touch. And my website is just www.michaelg.com and you can find all the things there.  

Kristin:    00:51:15    Okay. Any, uh, anything else that I missed or anything else you wanna add?  

Michael:    00:51:19    No, I just, uh, you know, it's, Tulum is a, it's a beautiful place. It's a, it's an oasis and just like any other place, you know, it, it's got its things, you know, that you have to navigate through. But, um, there's no place in the world I'd rather be right now.  

Kristin:    00:51:35    Patience <laugh>. Yeah. Well, thank you so much Michael, and thank you. Maybe I'll see you in Costa Rica.  

Michael:    00:51:40    Sounds great. Let's go Costa Rica, baby!

Kristin: Puera Vida!

Michael:  Puera Vida.  

Kristin:    00:51:47    If you've been struggling with any of the topics that Michael and I talked about today, then I hope that this podcast helps you out, gives you some perspective and advice for how to approach those challenges. Remember that you can check out anything we talked about in the show notes, as well as both Michael's retreat and my retreat coming up in Costa Rica in August. There are just two weeks left to book your place on my Traveling with Kristin Costa Rica retreat. And then also go check out Nomad Health by SafetyWing and also Tortuga Backpack's brand new Light backpack. Very cool. We've linked those in the show notes as well. Have a great week, and I'll see you again here next week.