Quitting Your Job To Start an Online Business With Mitko From That Remote Life

Sneak Peek: 

Mitko:    00:00:00    I think a lot of people in American society are like, all I wanna do is make a million dollars and then retire. And then my question would be like, and then what? Like what? What are you gonna do then? Right? Like, just sit and drink lemonade on your like porch. Like what's, you know? So did you have that sort of experience with it?  

Kristin:    00:00:15    I think I found solace and seeing people who had millions of dollars and seeing that they wanted my lifestyle and not necessarily  

Mitko:    00:00:23    They were doing what you were doing, essentially. You kind of got the same answers. Yeah, but different, yeah. Okay.  

Kristin:    00:00:28    Different path. So maybe they didn't wanna live in my palapa where the electricity went out every day, but they did want the adventure of living in Nicaragua and being able to have a drink and watch the sunset and eat ceviche and just live life. And so I thought maybe I don't need to go through that path to get there. Maybe I can just continue on the one that I'm on because I'm 24. 

Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests.

Wise

Kristin:    00:01:11    If you've ever had to send money abroad or pay someone in a different country, you know how expensive wire transfer and foreign exchange fees can be. That's why I've been using Wise, formerly known as TransferWise for more than seven years now. Sending money internationally with Wise is between five to 13 times cheaper than traditional banks. It's also fast and easy with a Wise Multicurrency account. You can manage your money in 50 plus currencies and send money internationally directly from your phone in the app. No filling out paperwork, no calling your bank branch, and most importantly, no outrageous exchange rate. Sign up with Wise today to join more than 10 million people in businesses who are managing their money across the world. With Wise, you can get your first transfer up to 500 British pounds for free by using the link in the show notes or by going to travelingwithKristin.com/Wise to learn more. That's travelingwithKristin.com/Wise  

Kristin Wilson, Host:    00:02:29    Hi everyone, Kristin from Traveling with Kristin here and welcome to episode 103 of Badass Digital Nomads. My guest today is Mitko Karshovski, host of That Remote Life podcast, Mitko and I actually launched our podcast on the exact same day back in May of 2019, and I didn't even know that until I was researching him for this interview. So today I present to you a conversation about the future of work and how to best go location independent between two people who host podcasts about these topics on a weekly basis, and also coach and consult people on how to go remote. In this episode, you'll hear how Mitko went from learning the word digital nomad to becoming one within less than a year, and how his life has changed because of it. He opens up a lot about his struggles in the past with figuring out his path in life from dropping out of college through quitting his job at a startup to becoming a lifeguard to pay the bills.  

Kristin:    00:03:31    He also shares about his digital nomad travel strategy recommendations for places to visit in his home country of Bulgaria and the cost of living there as well. Before we get started, though, thank you to the Germinator from Canada who left the following review on Apple podcasts. He says, a must listen podcast for future nomads. Very inspirational. I particularly appreciate that many guests share their stories and tell us how they got into digital nomadism from the very, very start. Thank you Germinator. And if you all agree, you'll love today's episode. Thank you as usual for all your reviews and support and let's get into the show. 

Podcast Interview:

Kristin:  Well welcome Mitko to Badass Digital Nomads. How are you doing? 

Mitko:    00:04:29    I'm  doing great. Thank you so much for having me. How are you doing?  

Kristin:    00:04:32    I'm wonderful. I, we were just talking before we started recording that you are in Merida, Mexico, which is a place that I have wanted to go and I've been very close to it from Play Del Carmen. And uh, how's your lifestyle there?  

Mitko:    00:04:46    Lifestyle here is great. You know, Merida is, um, it's, it's very nice. It's, uh, we have a lot of friends here, so that's great. You know, we get to hang out all the time. We actually have a coffee shop that we go to like almost every day that we have a big table at all the like, uh, waiters know us and they, like even my friend was joking around, he has his own omelet now. Like, he like walks in, he goes, Omelet de Nathan, and they know exactly what he wants. So yeah, I mean the, the thing about Merida is it's a very convenient place to be. It's just everything is so easy, it's so close to you that you can really just focus on doing what you need to do every day. But it is the big thing that it is lacking is, you know, like we talked about before we hit record, was it's missing the beach, man.  

Mitko:    00:05:30    Like, I need, I need the beach. So I, I don't know if it's like a place that I could spend a, a super long amount of time in, but we love, like my wife and I come here for what we call Jan-Feb, like, it's like our January, February, march kind of time where we want to get away from the North American winter, but we like to be close to family that's in the US so they can come visit us. So they get away from the winter as well. And so we come here for, you know, a couple months, hang out with some friends, have our friends visit us, uh, our family visit us and then we usually head to Europe. So.  

Kristin:    00:05:59    Nice. Are you going to Europe this year or planning on it?  

Mitko:    00:06:03    I am. So that was our plan and obviously we kind of had to stay on, on our toes about like how Covid is gonna develop and we know what the rules and regulations gonna be around that. But I'm from Ohio, like, that's like my area of the US that I'm in. And so they just announced that beginning on March 29th, anyone 16 and over can apply to get the vaccine. So that's our plan is we're gonna head back to the US in about a month, hopefully get the vaccine quickly and then head to Europe. Because for me it's not so much that I'm concerned about myself, but when I'm in Bulgaria, one of the reasons that I like to spend so much time there, besides the fact that it's a really great place for digital nomads in my opinion, is that I, my grandma is still alive. She's actually about to celebrate her 90th birthday. And so that is something that, you know, I like to go there to be with her, but also I don't want to end up getting covid and then bring it to my grandma who's 90. So that was one of the, the things was like, Hey, if we're gonna go back, we need to have the vaccine. So that was important for us.  

Kristin:    00:07:07    Yeah. Well we actually have a lot in common. My family's from Ohio and both, well both of us have lived pretty much in the same place in Mexico. Both of us are digital nomad snowbirds who would migrate south for the winter. I actually avoided winter for about probably 7 to 10 years of my life. I was trying to live this endless summer as a surfer. We're both beach people, we were both former lifeguards. Did you know that I was a lifeguard too. And--  

Mitko:    00:07:39    I think you mi I think I might've heard that around the surfer Yeah. Lifestyle. But,  

Kristin:    00:07:44    And this is really, really creepy, but we launched our podcasts on the same day.  

Mitko:    00:07:49    I, on the same day I thought that we, I knew that we launched--  

Kristin:    00:07:52     The same exact day. 

Mitko:    00:07:52    That's actually really funny. I know that we launched around the same time in 2019, but I didn't know it was on the same day. That's hilarious.  

Kristin:    00:07:59    It was. I looked it up because I was like, I noticed that you had more than a hundred episodes and I'm, I just finished my 100th episode. I'm like, oh I wonder when he launched his podcast and we both launched three episodes on May 13th, <laugh> 2019. So I think we're like living parallel lives. I don't know how we haven't crossed paths before, but here we are, you know, and timing is everything.  

Mitko:    00:08:24    You've spent quite a bit of time in Bulgaria as well, right?  

Kristin:    00:08:27    Yeah. I wanna talk about Bulgaria as a digital nomad destination at the end in like a little travel segment because I also love your country <laugh>. I think we talked about that a bit on clubhouse.  

Mitko:    00:08:39    Yeah.  Yeah, I think so.  

Kristin:    00:08:40    But let's start with a bit of your background and some of your tips for starting an online business because I found it so compelling that you've done so much in such a short period of time. Like you haven't been a digital nomad for that long, but you've been um, experimenting and learning and creating so much in what the past three or four years. What was your official nomad date? It was 2017.  

Mitko:    00:09:08    Yeah, January, 2017 is when I like to say I earned my first dollar online and like basically left so  

Kristin:    00:09:17    Nice. So let's go back. I think this is very inspiring for people that are just learning about the lifestyle because it can sometimes seem like a pipe dream. Like it's this thing that's gonna happen 10 years from now. And so my goal is just to help people shorten that timeline to getting that freedom, whether it's financial freedom or location freedom or ideally both. And so take us back for people who don't know you or aren't familiar with your podcast or your work yet. Oh, another thing that we have in common is neither of us knew what we wanted to be when we grew up. So take us back to this time when you had dropped out of college and you were trying to figure out what you were going to do. What were you feeling like then? Like what were some of the concerns that you had and how did you overcome that uncertainty and confusion of where to start? Not just in your digital nomad lifestyle, but in your actual adult career?  

Mitko:    00:10:16    Yeah, so you know, it's funny because I just talked about this with our mutual friend Dave from Nomad X uh, yesterday. And for me, I think, like I've always been very entrepreneurial. I always had a lot of these ideas. My dad was very entrepreneur --entrepreneurial when I was growing up as well. I just didn't know that. Like I didn't know that that's what he was doing, if that makes sense. And so when I went through high school, I actually studied biotechnology. That was the thing that I was gonna go to then study in college. And that was gonna be my career was I was gonna be in biotech. And we did this program that was two years at my high school. It was something that was really only available at my high school and a few others. And it was a really, really great program where your junior year of high school, you basically got all of these different skills that you learned within that field of biotechnology and microbiology.  

Mitko:    00:11:08    And then your senior year you develop what was called a capstone project and you kind of utilize all of the skills that you've developed to solve a problem that you essentially like notice in the space or whatever. And so that's exactly what I did. I developed this capstone project my senior year. Um, and it went really well. It was something that I became really passionate about. We got a lot of interest in from like people who were saying like, Hey, I think this might have some legs outside of this project. Like, have you thought about looking for funding as like an investor to do something with this? And so I pursued that into college and I went to study biotechnology in college and I got to my school and I started going to the classes and I was like, holy crap. Um, I hate this.  

Mitko:    00:11:52    I cannot stand this subject. What is happening? Like what's different from what I really enjoyed this in high school and now here I'm in college essentially studying the same things and like feeling like, you know, people were telling me there was like, I was like on the right path and there I had so much opportunity and potential and whatever. And I was like, yeah, but like I hate my life. Right? And so I became really confused because for the first time in my life I didn't have that path, right? Like I'd always, I was always a good student. People always told me I was on the right path to whatever. And all of a sudden here I am and that's not the case. And so that's when I dropped outta college because I was just like, I have no idea what's going on. I became really depressed and I was just like, I need, I need a year off to kind of figure things out, quote unquote.  

Mitko:    00:12:40    And so during that time was when I actually discovered startups and really dove in deep in that world. And that's where I got my start with entrepreneurship because I actually came up with a, what I believed was gonna be my million plus dollar ticket, you know, like I was gonna be the next Mark Zuckerberg or whatever. And so we developed this essentially an Airbnb for outdoor equipment where you could do peer-to-peer renting of outdoor equipment. So if you had a tent you could come on our platform, put it up for rent, and other people would pay you per day to rent your tent. Which was a terrible idea because the people who had the best equipment didn't wanna rent it out 'cause it would break or rip. And so the only people who would put it up were people who bought like $20 tents from Walmart, which at that point people were like, well why don't I just go buy that tent from Walmart?  

Mitko:    00:13:28    Right, <laugh>. Um, but even though that didn't work out, it's where I got my chops and it's where I learned a lot about the entrepreneurship space and essentially, you know, learned everything that I know about, well not everything I know about business, but a lot of the starting blocks about business. And the whole thing was though that growing up, you know, like you mentioned, I am from Bulgaria, I moved to the United States and I grew up being the Bulgarian kid, right? Like everyone always knew me as the Bulgarian kid. And then when I'd go to back to Bulgaria, everybody knew me as the American kid. So I wasn't really at home anywhere. Like nobody was like, yep, you're one of us. Like this is home for you. Right? And so I always kind of felt like, I mean I felt at home in the US but there was still always this like, I don't belong anywhere, if that makes sense.  

Mitko:    00:14:13    And because of that, I grew up with this very big like global viewpoint and I just could not picture in any way that, Hey, I'm gonna go live in Cincinnati and I'm just gonna live in Cincinnati for the rest of my life and say no to all of these other things going on all over the world, right? Like to me, life is this big sandbox and essentially I'm saying, oh no, I'm just gonna sit over here in this corner and play here. Like I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna go play in any of this other sandboxes <laugh>. So because of that I always wanted my life to be more global, more tra not even travel focused, but more touching more aspects of the world. And I didn't know what that looked like, like, like, like what the hell does, like what does that mean? Like, you know, I didn't know anybody who would do that.  

Mitko:    00:14:55    And that's when I heard Digital Nomad for the first time as a phrase. And that was really the Pandora's box because you type that into Google and all of a sudden you see all of these people doing that. And so I think I heard about Digital Nomadism in 2016 and then, you know, over the next year I kind of figured out how to transition, start a business online, start working online. And then in 2017, like we mentioned, I kind of got started. And so that's kind of my background and I know that you had a few other questions. Can you remind me so that I make sure that I'm answering your specific questions that you asked me?  

Kristin:    00:15:30    So well that answers it because I like that you were, this is kind of a foreshadowing of what the digital nomad lifestyle can be like where you have a global mindset but you don't necessarily feel like you fit in anywhere specifically. But you also acknowledge that you can fit in anywhere and everywhere. And this is this kind of parallel universe that we find ourselves in. So I find that really interesting because I just did a video on what I don't like about living abroad. And one of the things is just that, that you really don't know where you fit in. And so it's interesting that you felt that way before becoming a digital nomad, before knowing what a digital nomad was because you immigrated from one country to another at a young age. And so you were able to perceive what that was like. And then also that insecurity or unhappiness in trying to find your place in college, I think that's very relatable as well.  

Kristin:    00:16:30    And also not really knowing how to define it. Because when I think back, this sounds really strange, but I didn't even know what an entrepreneur was. It was like that was not on the menu of life. And it's hard to even conceive of that now in the world of social media and Twitter and Instagram where it's like hashtag entrepreneurship. But you know, when I was in high school, that was not a job and, and it wasn't something that I even knew about until the end of college. So I think I was a senior in college doing my senior capstone project when I found out about that. So once you were in your next job, what was that job that you quit to become a digital nomad?  

Mitko:    00:17:10    Yeah, so I was my, while I was in and out of different startups that I was trying to launch in Cincinnati, I was lifeguarding. So that was my way of like eating essentially, you know what I mean? And so I was lifeguarding for like eight years. I started in high school and then I lifeguarded through college and I went up, you know, I was managing a pretty large aquatic center at the time. It was like, you know, it wasn't just a pool, it had like three pools kind of thing. And so it's interesting because even though to me that was like the biggest waste of time and I was like, now looking back, I'm like, I could have done so much stuff instead of lifeguarding to make money. But I learned a lot about managing people at a really early age at that point. 'cause I had like a staff of 20 that I was essentially managing.  

Mitko:    00:17:56    And not all of them were like, one of the things about the lifeguarding world that I'm sure like you can relate to is like not everyone is like, there's a lot of people that are like, are kind of like lost in life or trying to figure out what to do next. And so it's like a really interesting group of people. And actually learning how to manage those people is really fun and interesting sometimes. So that's what I was doing as I said, like when I quit in order to then start working online fully. But the other thing that you asked about that I just wanted to touch on, 'cause I think it's important is you said, how did I decide what I want to do? You know, we talked about like this idea of what am I gonna grow up to be or what am I gonna grow up to do?  

Mitko:    00:18:34    And I haven't figured it out. I don't have an answer to be completely transparent. I don't know what I want to be, I don't know what I'm gonna be doing in 20 years. And I think that's okay. Like that's something that's changed for me is like where I felt very unsure of myself because I was like, everyone seems to have this great plan and like, you know, one of my best friends has this plan of how he's gonna be a doctor in in six years and he's been following that plan since high school. And I don't have that plan. And I think more and more people are gonna come into this position where I think just with artificial intelligence and the way in which technology is moving so quickly, I firmly believe that the job, a lot of people listening to this are gonna have in 20 years doesn't exist yet.  

Mitko:    00:19:18    And so this concept of what are you gonna grow up to be, you know, asking kids when they're six, Hey Johnny, what do you want to be when you grow up? Kind of doesn't really make sense anymore. And we should actually probably stop doing that because there's no way to come up with an answer when the job you're doing right now is gonna disappear in seven years because it's gonna get automated and the job that you're gonna do after that maybe doesn't exist yet. So I'm just moving through and following my gut and following my interests and opportunities and just kind of moving forward in that way using the skills and relationships that I've built up and and attempting to go after those opportunities and solve those problems with the skills that I have.  

Kristin:    00:19:59    That's a really important point and I'm glad that we are all alive at a time when that question of what you want to be when you grow up is becoming irrelevant because it's so malleable. And because, like you said, the job that you're going to have doesn't exist yet. And when I look back at what I was writing about and journaling about in 2012, so I started my first online company in 2011. And in 2012 I was already doing the personal development self-inquiry to try to figure out what my next thing was going to be. And it's interesting to read back of my answers because I was really trying to figure it out. But the job that I have now didn't exist then. Or maybe it did, but it was, was just very in the early stages. So, and even today what I do is very multifaceted.  

Kristin:    00:20:52    And so people don't really have necessarily one job or if they have one job in one form of income, they're looking to start a second job to start a side hustle, to start to diversify their income streams, whether it's through different types of jobs or online revenue streams or income from investments or what, what have you. And just last week when we were doing the interview for my 100th episode, actually one of my listeners interviewed me <laugh> for the podcast and he was asking, what are you going to do next? And what is the next job going to be? And to ask like how people can start where they are. And I was just saying that, you know, we don't know exactly what is going to be possible then because what we're doing now would've been impossible five years ago or 10 years ago, or 15 years ago or 20 years ago.  

Kristin:    00:21:46    It's like every couple years there's these quantum exponential leaps in technology and in what's possible in society. And so even though our genetic code is still rooted in hundreds of thousands of years ago, we have this amazing platter of options, which can be very overwhelming, uh, to begin with. So I do wanna ask you about your tips on people starting and getting into this lifestyle to begin with. But when I was living in Costa Rica in 2002 through 2012, I mean we didn't even have iPhones until 2008. So this lifestyle that we have now wasn't possible basically 10 to 12 years ago. And so when people are just thinking about what they can do, it's like these options become really limitless. And it is, it is, it is a good problem to have, I think. But it can also be something where you can get caught up and overwhelm.  

Kristin:    00:22:45    So I find it really telling that you spent about a year researching the digital nomad lifestyle before making the quote unquote leap because I think that that is a short amount of time compared to the norm because it can be really easy to get lost down the rabbit hole of Googling the digital nomad lifestyle. So how were you able to come to the point where you felt comfortable quitting your job within a year of discovering what a digital nomad was and what were some of the steps that you took between zero and one year to break free?  

Mitko:    00:23:27    Yeah. So even though it seems like a short amount of time, to me it didn't feel like a short amount of time. 'cause I, I had been working towards that direction for I feel like, you know, ever since dropping out of college. But I was kind of, I, I like I didn't have a point on the map of where to go. And when I did discover the digital nomad thing, I was like, great, there's a point. Let's like, let's go. So like my wheels were already spinning in some way. So maybe that's why I can, you know, you can say that I did it in a year, but I would say you mentioned our genetic code, right? And the fact that even though we have all these technologies around us, we're really just still monkeys with less hair, right? <laugh>, like we're still essentially like running the same operating system that our forefathers who chimps were, right?  

Mitko:    00:24:16    So one of the things that happens with that is that we are still built to perceive any threat or any fear as life or death, right? Like when we were chimps, it was like, Hey, I'm afraid that there's a lion around the corner and I'm gonna be really scared about going around the corner 'cause it's gonna eat meat, right? And so now we have all of these things that are, that we are scared of or that seem like fears because, you know, there's this thing that we want to do, but we're afraid of what's gonna happen when we do it. And it plays tricks in our mind because our monkey brain essentially says, that's a tiger and it's going to eat me when in reality it's not like very few things in life now are like tigers and that they're like life or death. And so I'm a very, I never knew this about myself until I started dating my girlfriend and my wife now that I'm married to her, is that I'm a very logical and analytical person.  

Mitko:    00:25:11    Had no idea about myself. I didn't know this about myself when I started her until I started dating her. But, uh, so for me it's like, it's just a math. You know what I mean? Like that's how I can like essentially like quiet my monkey brain is like, to me it wasn't, it wasn't that big of a risk. Like what I was making like 1500 bucks a month lifeguarding. Like, okay, that's not like I'm not abandoning, you know, a six figure job and like kind of starting things all over. I'm gonna go over there. Worst case scenario, I'm like, literally the worst case scenario is like, I'm gonna go completely broke. I'm gonna have no money. And I don't know, like I can always call up my parents or a friend to do me a favor and buy me a ticket home to the US and like I'll figure it out from there.  

Mitko:    00:25:55    I'll go work at Subway or whatever. So it's like in reality, if you think about these things, it's not that scary. Like the worst case scenario is sometimes not that scary and it's most likely not gonna happen, right? Like, you're always gonna be able to figure something out. That's why I think I was just able to move quickly. You know, all of the, when I think about like all the good things that have happened to me in life, it's usually because I took action quickly. And that's one of the things that I think, like you mentioned, a lot of people nowadays go down these Google rabbit holes and there's like almost so much information that you get information overwhelm and you're like, oh, I have to do these a hundred things before I do it. But like, what if instead of doing A, I do B and then oh my God, have you heard about c as an option?  

Mitko:    00:26:38    Like just do it like, you know what I mean? Like sometimes the wrong thing, even if it's wrong, will lead to the right thing. And so, like you said, when I, I do some coaching with like one-on-one coaching with people who are trying to transition into being nomadic. And that's the thing that I've realized is a lot of times it's not like I'm gonna bring some sort of idea or expertise they've never heard of before. Right? Like they can probably go read it on a blog, but the thing that I get paid to do a lot is like, hey, 98% of this shit that you, sorry, I don't know if you can swear on your podcast. Yeah. But like 98% of the stuff that like, okay, sometimes it like flows out. They, 98% of the stuff that you see on here isn't important, right? Like it's just fluff focus on the 2% of those things and go do that and like stop worrying about 98% of these things.  

Mitko:    00:27:24    'cause it's just not the time to do that yet. And so, yeah, for me, like I think that's why I was able to go from zero to one so quickly. It was because a, it just didn't seem like that scary of a thing. We were gonna figure it out no matter what, and then we just took action. You know what I mean? Like, we focused, we had a place to go, we went there, we're gonna figure it out. And so, yeah, I think far too many people don't know how to block out the fluff that's on Google and they spend all of their time reading and dreaming and planning and doing this stuff instead of actually taking action.  

Kristin:    00:27:57    Yeah. I've had some clients that kept postponing a relocation because they weren't sure about which country to go to and then years would go by, or sometimes it was because someone said something was going to happen or this policy or law or regulation was going to change that could maybe not be ideal for their work situation. And so they were just in this wait and see mentality and then, you know, that thing never happened and then they just never left. Whereas they could have just gone and then if, if something happened that wasn't working for them, they could leave. Or worst case scenario is always go back home. And that reminds me of Tim Ferriss's fear setting exercise, which I don't know if he invented it. Or if it's inspired by the stoics or how that came together. But you've, you've watched that TED talk.  

Mitko:    00:28:49    Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's exactly where I got that idea from is like literally like write down what you're the most afraid of. And like when you look at on paper, you're like, huh, actually, like, I mean I guess that's not that bad <laugh>, you know what I mean?  

Kristin:    00:28:59    <laugh>, exactly. I've done that and I go back and read my old notes and nothing that I was worried about actually happened, but we just still have to acknowledge these fears and bringing those fears out into the open makes them less scary and an obstacle is the way sort of thing. 

Mitko:    00:29:16    Well,  Yeah, and I'll give you like, just for anyone listening, like I'll be completely transparent and I actually did this today because I have a possible opportunity to invest in a really good coaching program that's five grand. And for me, I was like, I don't know, like five grand's not a small amount of money. Do you know what I mean? Like that's, that's like a, a decent amount of money. There's a lot of stuff that I could have, you know, spend that money on. And like I was just thinking about it and I, I was like, man, like I don't know, this is a lot of money. Like, I don't know if I should do this. And I sat down and I was like, okay, realistically speaking, like let's write out like what is my fear? And when I thought about it, I was like, I can make this money back if I, like worst case scenario, none of this pans out and it doesn't help me in any way. How quickly will it take me for me to earn that $5,000 back? And I was like, okay, I'm not gonna worry about, you know what I mean? So I just did this today, so it's still something that I have to do. It's not like I don't have these fears anymore. I just have the tool to use when I recognize that like, Hey, am I falling in this pattern again?  

Kristin:    00:30:19    Right. Because there's that cost of inaction that if you don't do that coaching program, there's an opportunity cost there of what you could learn. And, and I've, I've done a lot of coaching over the years and every time I invested in coaching, which is usually on an annual basis, sometimes twice a year, it depends on who I'm working with and if I wanna continue working with them or switch to a different coach. But every time I did that, something good happened. The first time that I invested in coaching was in March of 2011. And in April I had the idea for my online business and that coach was with me during the next few months while I launched that business. And I worked with her for two, two and a half years. And until I was good for a while and then it was time to hire another coach.  

Kristin:    00:31:10    And, and so you to think about these coaches that are also, there's a lot of seven and eight figure coaches. There could be one gem that they drop to you or one thing that they pull out of you that is worth that five or 10K investment that, that you can then make back in a month and you know, and something that you're doing differently in the future. And so I'm a really big advocate of coaching as long as it resonates with you. I've definitely talked to some coaches and, and I didn't feel like it was a good fit, but it's that seeking of the answer to a problem that's gonna get you where you wanna go.  

Mitko:    00:31:47    And I would say is like, you know, to kind of put, put a bow on this topic or so to say this to just kind of like, you know, make sure that we like, say the other side is like, make sure if you're gonna hire a coach, uh, they're a practitioner because there's a lot of people online that are quote unquote coaches or gurus or whatever, that I look at them and I'm like, this is a ton of bs and I wouldn't give you a penny, right? Because like why do, why is this worth it? You know? So it's like, make sure that you do your due diligence and make sure that whoever you work with is a practitioner, not a theory, like a somebody who works in theories because the practitioners a lot of time are the people that can say, like, I, I've I've made the mistake that you're heading down the road. And this is kind of like what you're saying is sometimes it can say one thing that can like, have a dramatic effect is they can say, Hey, I've been down this road, here are the things to look for. I would suggest not going down that road because X, Y, Z thing happened to me when I did it. Or, or something like that.  

Kristin:    00:32:41    Right? And definitely doing your research in any case, and it doesn't necessarily have to be traditional form of coaching, but a, a question that I recommend asking is, what about what I'm doing will give me the result that I'm looking for? Or what do I need to change? Or to talk to whoever, you know, to listeners, what do you need to change about what you're doing to get a different result? So if you continue on the same path with the same activities, then will that bring you what you've gotten in the past or something different? And if you want something different, then what needs to change with that? Does it mean finding another answer? Does it mean doing more research? Does it mean getting, uh, joining a mastermind, getting an accountability partner, hiring a coach? It's like starting to experiment like the scientific method, bringing in different elements of what can you do differently to start to find the next step or the next path. And so I guess there aren't really any exact answers, but if it's lot making sense logically <laugh> from a MIT co perspective, if it makes logical sense you can afford it and then it's also resonating with you intuitively and you did your research and things look good, then, then go with that and also consider what's the worst that could happen and be prepared for that too. So w- okay. When you quit your job and when location independent, from my research on you, it looks like you went to Greece first, is that correct?  

Mitko:    00:34:15    Yeah. I mean I went to Greece for like a week on my way to Bulgaria.  

Kristin:    00:34:19     Okay. So was Bulgaria your first destination as a digital nomad?  

Mitko:    00:34:24    Yeah, so I'm not, I struggle with the term digital nomad because even though that's like the term that everyone searches and like looks for, I don't do that much traveling. What I like to do is I kind of go after more of like a flag theory idea, which is I have a few bases around the world that I like for certain things and I go and I base myself there and I focus that I work and I spend, you know, a month, 2, 3, 4 there. And then from there, maybe like every couple weeks I'll go take like a little trip to someplace that I haven't been to before. 

Kristin:    00:34:55    Right? It's, it's tough with that term because I feel like the term digital nomad has a bit of an identity crisis because it means different things to everyone. Like for me it means just being location independent and it doesn't matter how long you stay in a given destination, fewer people search the term location independent or or flag theory. But it, the concept the same being being geographically independent. Being remote. And then you also, did you find a job before quitting your lifeguarding job?  

Mitko:    00:35:29    Yeah. So I mean this connects really well with actually what we were just talking about, right? Where what I did was, I mean, probably like a lot of people listening, I was kind of looking for a business to start that would allow me to be a digital nomad. And the thing that I stumbled on was drop shipping. And I already had some e-commerce experience. I had built some products, you know, and like sold some products before. And so I was like, okay, let me see and figure out how to put this drop shipping spin on what I already had some experience with. And so I went through a course to learn how to do drop shipping and I'd started working on that. And one of the things that I did was that inside of that course there was a coaching program where you could work with somebody who had built a, a a, you know, a store themselves and essentially get some one-on-one coaching with them.  

Mitko:    00:36:12    And so what I had the idea to do was like, I'm gonna invest all of my coaching hours into this one person that I resonate with because what I wanna do is establish more of a connection with them. And I knew that they were already successful. I looked into their background, the business they run, done some, you know, analysis and saw that it was like, it, you know, it was a, it was a legit business. And so that's what I did. And the thing that happened was that I got really close to this particular person and their partner. I got to know them quite well and their business through our coaching. And the thing that they did was like, Hey, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. Would you like to come work for our business? We'll pay you a salary so that you can, you know, do some things for us.  

Mitko:    00:36:57    And while you do that, we'll continue like our coaching onto your business and you, you know, the goal is for you to have your own business but come work for us if you're interested. And so that's actually how I started making money was that I went on to start a business with actually the two of them as like equal partners, three and three. But that is actually how I got started was that I, while I was building my own business, they brought me on to help their current, uh, business. And so that's how I started EI-- had a job essentially.  

Kristin:    00:37:27    So it was a win-win win. That's right. Yeah. And this has been consistent with my experience too, is I have yet to meet many people who transition to this lifestyle without having some sort of source of income that they could bring with them online. So I like that you took action, researching a business model that you were interested in and then going down that rabbit hole led you to a job opportunity, but also led you to developing the skills for this drop-shipping. Whether, I'm not sure, are you still doing that sort of business as well? Or did you decide to do something else?  

Mitko:    00:38:02    No, I'm, I'm not doing that. So this is the interesting thing is that the course of the time was like pretty expensive for me, but I was like, hey, I, I need to, I need to, sometimes I look at life as like it has filters, right? And you need to get through those filters to move up, right? And so one of the ways to hack your way through those filters sometimes is spending money to get to the next point. And so I, even though I don't do dropshipping anymore, and I I never had a successful dropshipping store, to be honest, the skills that I learned from that course are the skills that I then apply to those people's business. And the experience that I got from the skills that I learned that I applied to their business are then the things that, that took me into what I did next. Uh, which was that I started working a lot with agencies and, and found myself like helping a lot of agencies in different ways. So that's kind of how I, it's it's funny that even though the money that I spent on that course you can say was wasted 'cause I never had a successful drop shipping store. It's what got me the skills that I needed to market myself later on  

Kristin:    00:39:06    And the contacts and the relationships to get exactly additional work and in a, in a adjacent field. And then also I'm sure became a source of podcast guests possibly. Is that true?  

Mitko:    00:39:19    Actually the people that I worked with have never been on my podcast, but I I'm still friends with them. I still know them. And, uh, yeah, I mean it's like you're, you're totally right. Contacts, relationships, all of a sudden I'm meeting people that are doing what I want to do, right? And just even if, even if there's nothing that they pass on to me, just the, like seeing people that are doing what you're doing and being able to be around them is huge, right? Like I'm one of the biggest believers in the, you know, you're the average of the five people that you spend the most time with. Like, I mean that is a, a scientific fact. In my opinion at this point. And so if you can put yourself in that position, it is a game changer.  

Kristin:    00:39:59    A hundred percent. And then once you were established, or once you had experienced in this lifestyle, did that feeling go away that you had in childhood and that you had in college of just not liking the situation? You know, not, it doesn't matter if you didn't know yet what you were going to do forever as a job because there is no forever job in my opinion. But did that kind of uncertainty and anxiety dissipate and was it replaced with anything excitement or fulfillment in this new lifestyle?  

Mitko:    00:40:37    That's a good question. I think, yeah, I mean, I think to a point it has. I definitely, I'm from the Midwest. The Midwest is not exactly known for having a lot of out of the box thinkers in some ways. I know this can get me in trouble, but like as a stereotype, that's the thing. And nobody that I knew growing up had done any extensive traveling. Nobody was, I didn't know any entrepreneurs growing up other than, like I said, my dad is a pretty entrepreneurial personality. Um, and so for me, the traveling, yes, that brought me to people who think the way I think, right? All of a sudden I wasn't the only one that was having these ideas. All of a sudden I wasn't the only one who was thinking on the edge. I like people around me who are thinking on the edge.  

Mitko:    00:41:27    They're kind of, that's one of the things I talk about is like the first time I went to Bangkok, I, I really liked Bangkok, not because of it had anything to do with the, the way the city looked or anything like that, but I just felt this, I can almost imagine there being some guy whose name you don't know and you would never recognize him on the street or anything like that, but he's like a multi multi multimillionaire because he made some little app or like, I love this, I don't know what to call it. Like it's this like on the edge kind of stuff. And I started meeting people who are like that and who were thinking the way that I was thinking. And so I think that brought me a lot of feeling of belonging for sure. And so, yeah, I think the traveling and the living, this digital nomad lifestyle, it was a tool to get around people who I felt like I had more of an opportunity to be a part of their community, if that makes sense. Like, I'm not one of those people that believes that like travel will answer your questions. Like I think if you have some questions about yourself or about life, going and traveling is an interesting way to see if you can find those answers and create space to find those answers. But for me it was a tool to get around the people that I wanted to be in the community with.  

Leave A Review

Kristin:    00:42:44    Hey, it's Kristin. If you're liking this episode, I would be so appreciative if you could help the podcast grow by leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform or by sharing the wealth, send this episode to someone you think it might inspire or share it with your friends on social media. Badass digital nomads wouldn't exist without listeners just like you. Thanks for your support. And now back to the show.

Kristin:  That makes a lot of sense. I was also talking about on the 100th episode that because we didn't have terminology to define what this lifestyle is like before that I drew a lot of strength and the ability to continue on with a lot of uncertainty from the examples of other people who at the time were retired people who were living in foreign countries, right? And just hearing their whole life experience. And when I lived in Nicaragua, there was this marina where people would come sailing through from through the Panama Canal.  

Kristin:    00:43:53    They would stop over at this tiny marina near the border of Nicaragua and Honduras. And I met the most interesting people there. And it was, it was able, it gave me the ability to live with the end in mind. Like seeing the full circle and the, the story arc of these people who had followed either the American dream or the path in Western civilization of having the career and the family and all of the things. And then they ended up exploring the world on a sailboat. And that was just so inspiring to me and it just gave me more self-confidence in being on a, a different path or a weird path when my friends back home or my family members in Ohio and places didn't necessarily understand. So I think that that's really helpful for people to hear and gives people something to look forward to when they do get out on the road that they can meet other people. It's like a confirmation bias but in a positive way.  

Mitko:    00:44:57    I wonder, did you feel like, 'cause for me, for example, this is another Tim Ferris thing I think is like the doing the uh, the corner office test, right? Is like if you wanna do something, go find someone who's already doing it and look at what they're doing and be like, hey, is this actually what I want? Right? And so for me, like I don't know, like I can't picture myself retiring. So did you have this experience seeing those people and then going, is this what I really want? 'cause I think a lot of people in American society are like, all I wanna do is make a million dollars and then retire it. And then my question would be like, and then what? Like what, what are you gonna do then? Right? Like just sit and drink lemonade on your like porch. Like what's, you know, so did you have that sort of experience with it?  

Kristin:    00:45:39    So it's interesting that you say that because I never had this goal of making a bunch of money to retire. But I think I found solace in seeing people who had millions of dollars and seeing that they wanted my lifestyle or not necessarily--  

Mitko:    00:45:55    They were doing what you were doing essentially. You kind of got the same answers. Yeah, but different, yeah. Okay. Different  

Kristin:    00:46:00    Path. So maybe they didn't wanna live in my palapa where the electricity went out every day for three times a day, but they did want the adventure of living in Nicaragua and being able to have a drink and watch the sunset and eat ceviche and just live life. And so I thought maybe I don't need to go through that path to get there. Maybe I can just continue on the one that I'm on because I'm 24. And I'm here already and this is working for me and maybe I'm not making as much money. But yeah, so I guess I saw the things I wanted to see in that reflection. And I saw the things that I could maybe skip and, and not do and still end up with the same result. And so yeah, so that's how, that's a good question. I never thought of it that way.  

Mitko:    00:46:47    And that's something for anyone that's listening, like another thing that I'm a really big fan of that I have a goal of actually doing very soon is another Tim man. I don't, I don't normally bring up Tim Ferriss four times a day, but it's like, you know, this isn't something that he talked about, I think in the Four Hour Work Week, a lot of us that have read it, you know, in 2017 or earlier, whatever, we need to go back and reread it. 'cause I actually think he has a lot of answers for a lot of things that we're now coming up with questions again, but I've forgotten that he already answered them. But one of the things that he talks about is mini retirements, right? Is so many people want to have money so that they can retire, but they don't really know if they're gonna like retirement, right?  

Mitko:    00:47:27    And so I love this idea and it's something that I have a goal now is that I wanna do before I'm 30, uh, I'm 28, I'm about to turn 28 next month is I want to have a mini retirement of at least three months before I'm 30. And see like, alright, is this something that I've enjoyed to just like relax and I don't know, I could get hit by a car tomorrow and die and never get to just hang out on the beach. And not that I think that I'd really enjoy hanging out on the beach for three months or whatever, but I don't know, let me try it. Let me retire for three months and go give that a try. So yeah, I think that that's something that is a really great way to test these goals that you might have, you know?   

Kristin:    00:48:05    Yeah, That's what I love about the European lifestyle is that people are allowed to take sabbaticals from a traditional job and first of all, they get more retirement days anyway, but it's commonplace to be able to take three months off or even a year off. And there's no negative connotation to that. So that's something that I'm still learning. I have taken many retirements of a month here and there, but I don't know if I intentionally allowed myself to enjoy it as much as I should have because I was always thinking of when I'm going back to work, I, I kind of wish that I would've let go even more. Although in hindsight I'm like, I did have fun but <laugh>  

Mitko:    00:48:48    And I think a month is like me personally, like I feel like, um, it would take me two weeks to wind down and it'll take me two weeks to wind back up to speed, right? So a month is almost already like, yeah, but the time you wind down, you're gonna have to wind back up again to get yourself into gear for performance when you get back to work, right? So that's why for me it's like that three month period where I fully get the test, you know, kind of relax, do something else, you know, whatever, and then, and then come back more recharged, hopefully.  

Kristin:    00:49:19    Yeah, I love that. That's a good goal to have. I might adopt your goal <laugh> and your podcast Workflow <laugh>, which we were talking about before I copied your Calendly workflow. So let's talk a bit about your podcast. So you're in this lifestyle then, for a year or so. What gave you the idea or impetus to start a podcast? Why did you start That Remote Life?  

Mitko:    00:49:43    So I don't like to do things quietly. Like I'm not, like, I'm a big time extrovert. I don't like just kind of like sitting in my own corner and doing things by myself. I love to create, I love to share what I'm doing. I love to talk to other people. Like, and I was also really curious and I had so many questions and I've always, I'm really attracted to interesting people. And so for me it was a tool for, for me to scratch that itch of I want to talk about this, I want to create content about this. 'cause I don't like to work quietly and I want to have the opportunity to meet some of these people who I'm very interested in and get their opinions on, on certain topics. And so that's why I started the podcast and I really, I'm just, I don't know, like I'm really stoked about this space.  

Mitko:    00:50:30    I'm really excited for the things that are happening and I want to like, I don't know, like my mom and dad got sick of me talking their ear off about this stuff. You know, my wife is gonna go insane if I keep blabbing to her about all the, even though she's really psyched about the space as well and So for me, the podcast was a way for me to scratch my own itch and talk about these things and ask the, you know, experts, the questions that I had. Um, and so that's why I started it. And yeah, 107 episodes in, it's been, it's been great. It's been a lot of fun.  

Kristin:    00:51:00   And I forgot to say congratulations on your wedding, by the way.  

Mitko:    00:51:04    Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate it.  

Kristin:    00:51:05    And does your wife work remotely as well?  

Mitko:    00:51:08    Yeah, she does. So we, I mean, when I said in 2017 it was when I got my nomadic, I, I hit the road. We hit the road together. And so luckily she's also kind of crazy like me and she was like, uh, you know, that was kind of like every, all of my friends were like, dude, I think like you just like, you know, check the box on like marriage material. Because I was like, Hey, do you wanna, you know, quit our jobs and go live in Eastern Europe for like six months and then like figure it out? And she was like, yeah, let's do it. And I was like, let's, alright, cool. Like, you know, let's go. So  

Kristin:    00:51:40    Put a ring on it.  

Mitko:    00:51:41    That's right. That's right. Right then and there. I should've known.  

Kristin:    00:51:43    Listen up guys, listen up <laugh>. So what are some of your takeaways after 107 episodes? Are there any themes that have come through and the, the people that you've interviewed?  

Mitko:    00:51:57    I actually think the biggest takeaways for me personally have, I mean, so first of all, getting to talk to a lot of people, I look up to, the thing that I'm finding out is like, they're just like me and we're all the same. We all have the same fears, we all have the same limitations. They just like did the thing they wanted to do, right? So like that was the biggest thing is like I went out and there were these people that I, I put on a pedestal and that I was like, holy crap. Like they must be like superhuman. Like what do they have that I don't have? And there's this constant like feeling of lacking, like they must have something that I don't and then getting to talk to them. And especially like, you know, it's not one of like some of the most beneficial times on a podcast isn't when you're recording, it's the time before the podcast where they're like, Hey man, what's up?  

Mitko:    00:52:44    What's going on? Like, oh man, like let me put this thing away over here 'cause it's a mess or whatever. And so it's this moment of like, oh holy shit, this person is just like me and it doesn't, I'm not putting them down in any way, but you realize you can do whatever it is that you want to do 'cause the person you're looking up to who has already done it is just a shithead like you. Right? So that was a big realization. And the other thing for me that I think is gonna matter a lot coming up is after Covid, I don't think people realized how much Covid changed things. Covid, obviously was not a good thing. A lot of people lost their lives and that's very sad and a lot of of people lost family members and loved ones and friends. But what it did do, you know, looking forward is that it kind of, I think a lot of the things that I've been talking about on my podcast that I expect it to happen in the next five, 10 years, I think have been reduced to going to happen in the next two to five years, right?  

Mitko:    00:53:45    Where all of a sudden all of these companies were forced to adopt remote work and once you've gone there, you can't go back because at the very least companies are gonna follow the money, right? They're gonna follow the margins. And so now all of a sudden there's a lot of computation happening inside. A lot of execs is like, okay, so you're telling me that not only did did like the company not fall apart when everybody wasn't coming into the office, but like a lot of our employees are saying they're happier. And so because of that, I don't need to have this big office and like I can improve our margins. And not just that our, like I mentioned, our employees are happier, but also what is the difference between Nancy working in New York and you know, working with whoever in eastern Europe that is actually a much better person for the job.  

Mitko:    00:54:39    So it's like all of these things I think are just working inside of these execs heads and what we're gonna see in the next three to five years is a huge shift towards remote work from the, from companies. We're already seeing it, we're seeing, you know, the news headlines of Salesforce is going remote, Spotify's going remote, all of these companies, Facebook, Twitter, they're all going remote in some aspect. And so I think it's just positioning for this world which actually Naval Ravion, I don't know if you're familiar with his work, he's the co-founder of Angel List. Like he's been for years. Yeah, I love him saying, yeah, I'm, I mean I'm a total N-Naval nerd, but he's been saying for years like listen, the world that we're headed towards is all of us having an app on our phone like Uber where we're all gonna have like profiles on there and when a great job comes up because it's gonna be great because automation is gonna take away all the shit that isn't great.  

Mitko:    00:55:35    So all that's gonna be left for you to do as an expert is gonna be high paid work, high paid, high leverage work, you're gonna go do it, make 10, 15 grand and then go do whatever you wanna do for a month and come back knowing that your app is gonna be there with your profile to get that work. And so I think, you know, if that was gonna happen in 20 years, I think we're much closer to that happening in five to 10 years in a much larger aspect. 'cause obviously we already have Upwork in Fiverr and other apps. I just had Alex Fasulo on my podcast who did a million on Fiverr, right? So this is already possible. I just think it's gonna become a lot more saturated in not just our world, but in like if you're listening to this podcast and you're the weird one out of your friend group that all the rest of your friends are corporate and whatever, I think this is going to enter their world a lot more in the next three to five years.  

Kristin:    00:56:27    Definitely. I completely agree. I wrote an article in 2018 or 2019 about how the world would look when everyone works remotely. And I thought it would happen 10 or 15, 20 years from now that has been shortened down to a year or so. It's pretty wild. And unfortunately I, I think that these companies are going to remote for maybe not completely the right reasons. There's this synergy of benefits that happens when a company goes remote. Uh, there's downsides as well, like anything. But I do think that you're right about the financial aspect being the strongest motivator. Not only are the employees happier and it costs them less in overhead to not have these big offices, their productivity has probably gone up. You know, their margins are getting wider, but it's also this critical mass of companies going remote at the same time. Because if you are the company that goes back to the office and incurs those expenses, If you're a public company that's gonna affect your share price, there's like this cascade of side effects that happens. And so I think that just based on competition and critical mass alone, it's gonna be really hard for companies to justify going back completely to the old way because they're gonna fall behind and then they're also going to make their company less attractive from a hiring perspective. 

Mitko:    00:57:54    Exactly.  Yep.  

Kristin:    00:57:54    So they're gonna get the worst employees and they're gonna have the highest turnover, the highest training expenses. So I don't really see any other way that things are gonna shake out  so.

Mitko:    00:58:03    Well, and like on that point, millennials and, and Gen Zers mentioned quality of life and work-life balance a lot higher on their sheets of like what they want, right? my father-in-law is a doctor and he's saying that in the medical field, they're having a huge issue right now because so many millennials don't want to take some of these medical jobs that are like extremely non work-life balance friendly. And so they're having a lot of problems because he's like, millennials don't wanna work as much, nobody wants to do these 80 hour weeks that I had to do going through it. They want to have more balance. And so that's an issue the medical field is gonna have to deal with. And I think everyone's gonna have to deal with it because like you said, if company A and company B or competitors and company A like, Hey, come work for us and you can work from anywhere and we have all of these great like flexy sort of benefits, they're obviously gonna win the best talent 'cause that's what the best talent wants, right?  

Mitko:    00:59:00    And so I think that that's something to consider. And then the other thing as well, um, this is sort of a bigger topic that I don't think we have time to discuss, but what does this do to immigration? Right? Like one of the things that I'm really, really like wanting people, like if there's one takeaway I think you take from listening to this podcast, this episode, the big thing is that this is the first time in our civilization as as humanity that our economic impacts are separated from our geographic location. So think about that. Right? And I think that's been true for the last 10, 15 years, but it's really hitting, like you said, critical mass now because what happens to immigration when, you know, my parents moving to the United States to hopefully give us a better economic future as a family. What happens when my parents had another option which was, hey, instead of moving to the United States, why don't we work for a US-based company with that pay but stay in Bulgaria. And then what also happens when these companies are like, Hey, um, instead of hiring Nancy in New York, I'm gonna hire this Bulgarian kid who's a wiz and is actually a way better person for this position. Right? So I think that this is something that's gonna really shake out over the next decade, most likely. 'cause this does have like geopolitical impact. So that's gonna be really interesting to see, you know, what happens.  

Kristin:    01:00:20    Yeah, that is very exciting. I've, I've written a bit about this on medium too, and also from the immigration perspective is so compelling and mind boggling. And then also the, the geopolitical perspective just po public policy in general. And I think that rural areas will benefit more, smaller towns should benefit more. Hopefully it ends up being a good thing. You know, the biggest cities like New York and regions like Silicon Valley, these are going to be the losers in the remote economy in my opinion. And people are gonna be distributed in a, in a way that has never happened before. So it'll be really interesting. And also there should be more money directed towards individuals and more focus, whether it's from companies putting their employee, valuing their employees more, putting their employees first because employees are great. It's like a power grab, but not even a grab.  

Kristin:    01:01:17    It's just like the, the balance is tilting and the in favor of workers away from companies because workers will have more choices, more opportunity and more ability to make a decision, not just of which company they want to work for, but if they wanna work for a company at all or if they just wanna work for themselves. And so there's all of these new, it's like a decision matrices where it's do I spend eight years going to medical school or do I learn drop shipping? Or you know, there's these either or infinite number of decisions. And so that, we'll we're seeing that with remote work visas where governments are offering incentives as you well know to remote workers to come to their countries. So hopefully the money will be directed away from companies like Amazon to bring jobs to a physical factory and will be more towards freelancers and remote workers and digital nomads and people that have location freedom and aren't, are trying to decide where to go temporarily or to settle. So very, very exciting stuff. I know we are almost out of time, but I wanted to ask you just a couple questions on, you have this, uh, new, is it a membership program or a mastermind for people that are trying to start six figure businesses, online businesses or build into that? Can you share a little bit about that project?  

Mitko:    01:02:50    Yeah, so it's a community that I launched recently called um, Six Figure Nomad. And the reason why I launched that was because we mentioned Naval, I'm really big on like finding the leverage points in life, right? Like what are kind of the le the levers that I can pull that if I can get even these three, I'm gonna be in a really good spot and they're gonna help everything else, right? Like everything else is gonna be easier because of these three leverage points. And so for me, when I was thinking about it, the big three leverage points for me are becoming location independent, building your own business and earning six figures a month. Uh, six figures a month. Six figures a year. That's good. Yeah. Uh, and so the reason why I started with that was, uh, yeah, I mean sure if, if I can make a million dollars, uh, that's fine.  

Mitko:    01:03:30    But the, the reason why I focus on those is because building a business like we've talked about, not only is it gonna become far more important in terms of skill base because a lot of people are gonna be freelancers, contractors, and as that you need to have some of those business skills that are not taught in school. And it, it's also the way to have, in my opinion, the most control over your life, right? It kind of gives you a bit more of having the ability to steer your own yourself through life. The next thing is being location independent because I don't need to tell you, I'm sure everybody listening understands why being location independent is so good, but why should we just live and you know, work and shop and do whatever in this location when there's so many other locations that can give us a better quality for those things, right?  

Mitko:    01:04:18    So flag theory like we mentioned is essentially like, you know, maybe I wanna do business in the United States but I wanna live in Europe but I want to shop in Dubai or whatever, right? So just kind of like getting to touch the best parts and and you know, building that lifestyle for ourselves. And finally the last thing is earning six figures a year and there's this idea of money doesn't buy happiness. And I fully believe that, and I understand what people are saying with this. However, there is actually research to show that to an extent money does buy happiness, right? And I have a biotech background, so for me research, when I see research with numbers, I'm like okay great, this is something to look at. Purdue University did a really great research a few years back where they did a very huge poll comparing income to how happy people report being.  

Mitko:    01:05:07    And what they found is that it's actually a bell graph, right? So people who obviously don't earn a lot of money and are constantly stressed about bills and cost of life, they don't report being very happy, right? And then on the other end you have people who maybe make tons and tons and tons and tons of money but that is either very stressful or it comes with a lot of problems or maybe, you know, it causes some sort of divide in the family and friends, you know, we can kind of come up with some hypothesis as to why people who are very wealthy report not being as happy. But what that research found is that the sweet spot is actually right about 75 and $95,000 a year. That seems to be the point at which people report being the happiest. And so that's why a focus on that isn't just because it's very click beatty as a title and as a name, but because interestingly it must be so attractive to us because we in our guts know that hey, that actually sounds pretty nice, you know, a hundred K, like I can do a lot of things.  

Mitko:    01:06:03    I don't have to worry about my bills as much. I can put money away to save for retirement or whatever and you know, I can have more fun, I can have a higher quality of life, but it's not as crazy as earning millions and millions of dollars and all the stresses that comes with that. And so that's why I started this community and I based it on top of case studies because there's lots of courses, lots of books, lots of information out there like we've talked about. But what I'm finding in a lot of my coaching and conversation with people, it's not that they don't know what to do but they don't know how to implement it. And so that's where I actually copied the Harvard Business School bus, uh, case study methods so that we get to get an under the hood look at businesses, how they moved, you know, as you know, the revenue went up and really getting to understand how these businesses put this knowledge to use. And so that's what we do inside of that community and um, yeah, I'm really stoked for it. I think it's gonna be really great and we're just trying to help everybody achieve those three leverage points.  

Kristin:    01:06:59    Yeah, it's like a Mitko MBA you have going over there.  

Mitko:    01:07:02    I'm not gonna name it that, 'cause that sounds crazy, but yeah, I mean I, I essentially wanted to, you know, in my, my belief is like listen, if you hit those three things, you're pretty well set in life. So yeah. You know, that's kind of what I wanna help people get to.  

Kristin:    01:07:17    And the research does support that. You're right, there's, it is like a theory of diminishing returns that after a certain income, more income doesn't equate with the same ratio of happiness.  

Mitko:    01:07:29    Exactly.  

Kristin:    01:07:30    It's declining <laugh>. So, okay, well let's get a couple of your Bulgaria travel tips before you sign off. You were from Varna. So for people who don't know Bulgaria, what would you say are the top hand of destinations for people to visit  

Mitko:    01:07:47    To be able to visit or for digital nomads?  

Kristin:    01:07:50    Well, let's say long-term travel.  

Mitko:    01:07:52    So I mean I would obviously say Sofia, which is the capital, like you should definitely go check that out. It's a great city in my opinion, that it has a lot of really attractive qualities to it. You know, it has everything that you want in a big city Sofia has, great food, great entertainment, nice coffee shops, places to work, et cetera, et cetera. So I'll definitely say go visit Sofia 

Kristin:    01:08:13    Nice bars.  

Mitko:    01:08:14    I would say nice bars. Yeah,  

Kristin:    01:08:16    Nice cocktail bars.  

Mitko:    01:08:17    Yeah, you're never gonna have, you're never gonna struggle to find bars in Bulgar. <laugh>, I'll tell you that much <laugh>. I'd say Sofia for sure. I think, you know, I am obviously biased so put this into your equation when you're deciding what to do. But I think Varna is an incredible place for travelers and specifically for digital nomads because in Varna there's not a lot to see. Uh, it's a big tourist city because the beaches are quite nice. But for digital nomads who want a place to hang out in the summer that's on the beach, that's affordable, that has a really great quality of life, really fast internet, some nice coworking spaces, like it ticks a lot of boxes. It's why I spend a lot of time there even though I have the opportunity to be wherever I want to. So for me, Varna is a good one.  

Mitko:    01:09:04    There's a ton of great places on the seaside, uh, as well. In the south there's a small town called Sozopol, which I almost don't want to tell people to go to because there it has another similar city called Nessebar, which is very popular and it, I hate being there, but Sozopol is like the better, nicer version of it that is not as touristy. So I really like that place quite a bit. And then in the middle, the center of the country, you do have some nice cities like Plovdiv for example, which is um, a very nice town. It has a really nice kind of hipstery vibe to it. And then also Veliko Tarnovo, a lot of people who go there really, really like it 'cause it's quite beautiful, it's very striking. Um, it's kind of built on a mountain. So it's very nice. And then I think you've made some content around Bansko.  

Mitko:    01:09:53    Bansko is great for digital nomads. I personally would kind of go crazy if I lived there for more than a month 'cause it's a pretty small town. But I think what um, Matthias and Uwe have done with Bansko in, in terms of building it for digital nomads is just absolutely incredible. Like hats off to them with what they've been able to do. 'cause growing up in Bulgaria, I knew Bansko and had you told me at that time like, oh, there's gonna be all these foreigners going in that are building all these businesses and whatnot, I'd have told you, uh, you're insane <laugh>. So yeah, what they've done is pretty incredible. <laugh>.  

Kristin:    01:10:24    What would you say the average cost of living for a foreigner for a digital nomad would be in Sophia compared with Varner for example?  

Mitko:    01:10:33    I mean Sophia is definitely a bit pricier, but for like a foreigner that's making money in the US I don't think that like the, the differences are that big. I think that those are more felt by like locals. Like if somebody's living in like a smaller town in Bulgaria and is considering moving to Saia, they do say it's, it's, it's more expensive. What I will tell you is like in Bulgaria, I think like the average salary is like $700 a month. So like if you're making anywhere, like if you're making $1500 bucks a month, like you're doing well in Bulgaria. So especially if you're like renting long term. So I don't think for most people listening to this that are not like just getting started and kind of, you know, more. I think if you're making a couple grand, you're you're fine wherever.  

Kristin:    01:11:23    Yeah, I, I met my friend Georgie, he's Bulgarian, I met him in Bansko. He was trying to convince me to go to Varna and saying just how amazing it was. But I think I was in a position where I had just been traveling so much that I wanted to stay in one place and I ended up staying two or three months in Bansko and then I was off to Lisbon and a bunch of other places. But, and then when I went back it was winter so I didn't get to go. But I will explore those cities and we'll get the exact spelling of those cities on the south and the coastal towns. 'cause I'm not exactly sure how to spell those, but we'll include that list in the show notes. Great. So thank you so much Mitko for coming on and sharing your remote life with us. How can people follow you and connect and subscribe to your podcast?  

Mitko:    01:12:12    Yeah, so the podcast is called That Remote Life. So if you just type that into anywhere that you listen to podcasts, you'll find it. Um, I have some, uh, you know, I bring on a lot of experts, a lot of entrepreneurs. I've had some pretty cool people on, like Phil Libin who's the co-founder of Evernote, for example. We talked a lot about remote work and like how he sees that going from his point of view. Uh, I've had some pretty cool, you know, interviews about topics that would be interesting to people. But yeah, so just type in That Remote Life wherever in podcast apps and that will pop up. And then also my Instagram is @Mitkoka, which is M-I-T-K-O-K-A. It's my first name and the first two letters of my last name. So, um, and then that will kind of send you everywhere.  

Kristin:    01:12:54    Okay. And your website.  

Mitko:    01:12:56    Yeah, the website is ThatRemoteLife.com. That will also send you everywhere you need to go. <laugh>.  

Kristin:    01:13:01    Great. Giving you all the plugs. Mitko <laugh>.  

Mitko:    01:13:03    That's right. Thanks. I appreciate it,  

Kristin:    01:13:06    <laugh>. Awesome. Well, I look forward to talking to you again soon, hopefully on That Remote Life and have some really amazing Mexican food for us in Merida and enjoy your winter down there. I hope we get to connect in real life at some point, maybe in Europe this summer sometime soon.  

Mitko:    01:13:25    That's right, yeah, you're gonna come on my podcast very soon. So for anyone listening who wants to kind of hear this flipped <laugh>, you know, definitely check that out. Uh, so yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much for having me on.  

Kristin:    01:13:37    You're welcome. See you soon. Thank you everyone for listening. Bye.  

Kristin:    01:13:45    As you know, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And in the Badass Digital Nomads Facebook group, you can connect with 4,000 other like-minded people from around the world who all share the same values of freedom and location independence. Plus, if you wanna become part of my inner circle, you can join my Patreon page for $5 per month and get direct access to private message me. Submit your questions for my podcast guests, contribute your opinion on new content ideas, and get early access to preview all of my YouTube videos before they're published. You'll also get to attend monthly private Zoom Hangouts with myself and other patrons. We just had a one and a half hour call last night with patrons from around the world calling in from places like Bali, California, Michigan, and Nebraska. It was so much fun. And you can join us for the next call by becoming a pat today at patreon.com/travelingwithKristin. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com/travelingwithKristin.