Moving to Italy with the Digital Nomad Visa

Advertisement:   00:00:31    Escape the Winter Blues and Fly to the Canaries with Ryanair. Discover adventure surrounded by breathtaking landscapes, then curl up in a cozy pub and indulge in the delicious cuisine. Warm welcomes await less than 90 minutes away. Flights from £19.99, 1 way. Book on Ryanair.com or on the app limited availability. To find out more, visit Ryanair.com.  

Introduction: Welcome to the Traveling with Kristin Podcast, your destination for travel tips, living abroad, advice and insights that help you experience life in foreign cultures. If you're interested in slow travel, living abroad or a digital nomad lifestyle, you're in the right place. I'm your host, Kristin Wilson, the author of Digital Nomads for Dummies and the host of Traveling with Kristin on YouTube. Thank you for traveling with me today and let's see where our journey takes us.

Kristin:     00:01:34    Hey there, Kristin, from Traveling with Kristin here and welcome to episode 275 of the Traveling with Kristin Podcast. I am so happy to be with you here today. It's been way too long. It's been over a month since we had an episode of the podcast, so I really miss you guys and I'm, I'm glad to be back. Let's just put it that way. <laugh>, if you're a long time listener of the show, you know, we've been having weekly podcast episodes here since 2019 and a few months ago, back in August, I went down to a biweekly publishing schedule, uh, just due to the number of projects that I'm managing on my plate at the moment and also because I wanted to spend more time on each episode, put those episodes on YouTube and just, you know, do something different. Um, but it's been even busier lately, especially since the November elections in the United States for my company, which is a relocation business.  

Kristin:     00:02:36    So we've been offline for quite a while, but we are back and I have been recording some new interviews for 2025, so I'm really excited to share those with you. But I just kind of wanted to touch base here and let you know what's been going on, where I've been and also some plans through the end of the year. So our last episode was actually right before the November elections and it was about places that you can move abroad, uh, after the elections. Um, many people are considering moving for political reasons now. And so not to be political at all, you know, just totally neutral standpoint. I've been helping people relocate abroad since the early 2000s. So I've helped people move overseas regardless of who the US president was, even though most of my clients are from the US and Canada. You know, this has been through the Bush years, the Obama administration, the Trump years first administration, the Biden years, and now Trump's second term.  

Kristin:     00:03:46    So it definitely is, you know, moving abroad is an experience that you might wanna have for a lot of different reasons. Politics, lifestyle, there's so many factors that come into play. So I just wanted to clarify that because it's not like, you know, we just started talking about this last month. It's, I've been publishing content about living abroad for the last seven years and I've been helping people move abroad since 2005. So something that you know, you can do regardless of who is in office and you can do it for your own reasons, but my team and I, we've just been so busy with hundreds of inquiries over, uh, the past month and I've been hiring new people to help with that. So it's really exciting having a lot of new people to help move in the beginning of 2025, in the middle of 2025.  

Kristin:     00:04:38    So if you are thinking of moving abroad in the next year and you want my personal help and support with planning your move to any country in the world, you can apply to get more information at TravelingwithKristin.com/relocation and my team and I will be happy to help you and, and look forward to speaking with you. We also have a lot of new videos over on my YouTube channel Traveling with Kristin. We have a video on eight of the cheapest places to retire abroad in Asia, a video about exactly how I make money online, which was actually a request from one of my relocation clients, Julianne and her husband Spencer, who recently moved from the US to Spain. She was asking me how I'm able to have this location, independent lifestyle, and I thought about it for a few weeks and I decided to make a 22-minute video breaking down my exact online income streams, but also tips for how you can make a side hustle online, how you can find remote jobs online, and just more ideas for how you can earn extra income in the new year.  

Kristin:     00:05:50    I also made a video about how I see the US after living in Europe that has more than 200,000 views in the first couple of weeks. Um, so this is kind of a follow up to some other videos I've made over the years, um, documenting my perspective of cultural adjustment to different countries and kind of talking through that. So I hope that that's helpful for you. I also did a step by step video about how to leave the United States in 10 steps. I made a video about why so many people are leaving the US and I also made a video about why celebrities are leaving the US and where they're going. So I'll also link to those videos down in the show notes in case you missed any of them. And you can subscribe for weekly content on my channel youtube.com/travelingwithKristin. Over here on the podcast, we have an exciting, uh, gift card available to win for our annual podcast listener survey.  

Kristin:     00:06:51    I will link to this at the top of the show notes. And if you fill out our quick survey less than five minutes, you can enter to win a $100 Amazon gift card. This was supposed to be, the deadline was supposed to be December 15th, but since this podcast episode is late that you're listening to right now, I have decided to extend it for another week. So you have until December 20th to fill out our podcast survey and enter to, to win. So don't delay. Do it today and maybe you can get an extra Amazon gift card for some last minute Christmas gifts. Your exact feedback on this survey will help direct the type of content that I make in 2025, the topics that I talk about. I have about 800 video and podcast ideas in my notes app. And so I really need your help to, uh, help us focus on what exact type of topics you wanna hear about because there's a lot, a lot we could talk about as we reach the end of the year.  

Kristin:     00:07:51    I also want to thank everyone who has left a review for the podcast this year. It is the number one way that you can communicate with me about, you know, what you like and enjoy about the podcast in addition to our listener survey. And it is the best way to say thank you for creating this content. You know, it's a labor of love, of course I've been doing it since 2019, but it's, it's always so encouraging and motivating to read your reviews that pop into my inbox here and there. And I also want to take a very special thank you to all of my Patreon patrons, some of whom have been with me since 2018, supporting my content for $5 per month and being there as a sounding board and as a focus group for ideas I have for podcast and video topics I'm thinking of making.  

Kristin:     00:08:45    And also to be there in person during our zoom hangouts that we have now. And then a just really big hug to all of my Patreon patrons and also to any of you who have made donations to the podcast through our website at podcast.TravelingwithKristin.com/donate. Also through PayPal, through Buy Me a Coffee, which has become Buy me a tea since I stopped drinking coffee and caffeine. Maybe a decaf coffee decaf latte here and there, maybe an almond milk or coconut latte. I'll still splurge a little bit. I'm only human guys. I'm not perfect. I'm tired sometimes. I, I do, I do still have a coffee here and there, but um, for the most part I'm drinking herbal tea these days and you know, it's a different lifestyle but I like it. So thank you for your reviews. Thank you for your donations and support.  

Kristin:     00:09:42    Thanks for joining my inner circle on Patreon and thank you for sharing these podcast episodes with your family, with your friends on social media whenever it's an episode that really resonates with you and that you think might help someone else. So today I'm so happy to share with you an interview that I did with Samantha Wilson, no relation to me, Kristin Wilson. But Samantha Wilson is the founder of Smart Move Italy, which is one of the top relocation companies in Italy. I've known her for a few years now. This is her second time on the podcast. So I'll also link to, uh, her other episode that we did a while back and we're just talking a little bit about Italy's Digital Nomad Visa, which was new this year and is perfect for remote workers, entrepreneurs, and freelancers who are looking to live in Italy for anywhere from one year up to five years.  

Kristin:     00:10:39    Uh, there's a few different requirements for how to qualify for that, but it's a great option if you are not retired but you don't have a work permit to go to Italy and you want to live in Italy, which uh, this can be actually a path to a temporary or permanent residency. So it's really exciting. So I've been talking about this for a while. I'm really happy to share this episode with you. And this is also a, uh, interview that aired on Samantha's podcast, which is called A New Life in Italy. So I'll also link to her podcast in the show notes. If you are a fan of all things Italy, you can find a lot of episodes over there with her and her guests as well. And if you'd like to inquire about any services that Samantha has, I will link to her website in the show notes and you can always tell her that you heard about her on the Traveling with Kristin podcast.  

Kristin:     00:11:36    Thank you so much for being here today and spending time with me this year and previous years. If you've been with me for a while, apologies for the radio silence for the past couple of weeks, but really, uh, looking forward to more podcast episodes for you in 2025. I also have big news that my second book, Moving Abroad For Dummies will also be out in 2025 <laugh>. This is another reason why we haven't had so many podcast episodes lately. I've been very busy writing that book. So this will be, uh, separate from Digital Nomads for Dummies, which came out in 2022. So if you'd like to pre-order Moving Abroad For Dummies, then I will also leave that link in the show notes. You can also Google it, find it on Amazon, you can find it on Barnes and Noble. And I will have another podcast episode coming up with more information about that. This book will be everything you need to know about moving and living in another country so you don't wanna miss it. Check out Moving Abroad For Dummies linked in the show notes. And without further ado, let's begin.

Podcast Interview:  

Speaker:    00:12:51    Santida Media.  

Samantha:    00:12:53    Well, hello my friends and welcome back to a new episode of a New Life in Italy. I'm Samantha Wilson and today we're diving into a hot topic that's reshaping the way that we think about work and travel and that's the digital nomad lifestyle. Now I know I've already done an episode not too long ago on the Digital Nomad visa when it first came out in April, but today I want to give you an update because we've been knee deep in the trenches on this visa working on multiple applications from many different countries. And there's news to share. If you didn't know, we put a call out to our listeners and our community when this visa first was announced. We were asking people to submit their application to be selected as one of our four visa applicants that our team was going to help free of charge.  

Samantha:    00:13:43    Well, after hundreds of applicants, actually hundreds and hundreds, we selected four and they're from Canada, the US and the uk. But we've also been working on applications in different countries, most specifically Croatia because some third country nationals who first started as digital nomads in Croatia are now wanting to switch over to the Italian one. But it's not so easy because although the digital nomad visa is aimed at attracting remote workers from around the world, Italy is not like other countries. And we're learning more about the process and the real requirements, not just the ones on paper but a lot more. In today's episode, I am going to talk about three very specific developments that will impact you if you plan to apply for this visa. Now whether you are a freelancer, an entrepreneur, or just someone with the case of wonderlust and a laptop, understanding these nuances can help you decide if this lifestyle in Italy is right for you. So grab your espresso or your glass of eno and let's unpack the essentials of becoming a digital nomad in Italy.  

Samantha:    00:15:00    Well, okay my friends, let's get you up to date on the new visa that has become so important for so many people. There is still a ton of buzz around the digital nomad visa in Italy and as I mentioned, we are working on a lot of these applications in a number of different consulates and countries. And as expected the requirements, the eligibility and the process varies. There have been three significant updates that I want to share with you in hopes to help you decide if you qualify and if you want to DIY the whole process. So the first one is to remember that this visa is the baby of the EU blue card and the self-employment visa. If we put those two together, what they had to together was the digital nomad visa. The most weight on this visa falls on being highly skilled. So this is what's different from other visas in other countries, often you just needed to be working remotely for a period of time and make a certain amount of money.  

Samantha:    00:16:02    In Italy you need to be highly skilled. In the past, the EU blue card, which was the daddy of this visa, was also available for highly skilled people or for those with professional licenses. But until a few years ago, simple work experience just wasn't good enough. But that did change and the blue card now has this little provision for professional experience. Now keeping that in mind, this same criteria, in fact almost word for word, is now inside the digital nomad visa, which would lead us to believe that if you do not have a degree or a license but lots of experience, then you should be eligible but not so fast because the consulates have a ton of discretion. And like the blue card, although the professional experience is written into the eligibility criteria in practice, it's really not catching on. In fact, it's critical that to succeed that you have a degree or a license.  

Samantha:    00:17:06    And because the best predictor of the future is the past and with our experience with the consulate's discretionary habits, it's our opinion that simply having professional experience is just not enough and it's not going to get this visa over the line for you. Now that's not to say that some consulates may accept your professional experience because well, you know this is Italy, but it's highly unlikely. So for those of you who are planning to just sell up and apply for the DNV but do not have a degree or a license, tread very carefully my friends and make sure you have a plan B. The next significant thing for the degree holders and license holders that is fleshed out recently is the requirement for a ChiIA for your degree and or the QNQ, which is the EQF or in English it's called the EQF, the European Qualification Framework.  

Samantha:    00:18:08    So what the hell am I talking about <laugh>? I know you're thinking it. Well the ChiIA is a process where you have to verify your degree and show its equivalence in Europe and Italy. Often we use the ChiIA for people who are coming over for their masters for example. So to show what the degree they have now in order to qualify, they go through this equivalency through the ChiIA. It's an online database and an application system that will review your degree, your transcripts, and your school history and then give you this equivalence that you will need to apply for the visa. And we're using it now on the DNV as well. It'll cost you about 150 bucks and can take a few months to get a response. So plan ahead. Now the QNQ is a European framework that assigns like points towards your license. So for those of you who don't have a degree, but you have a professional license, this one's for you, it's designed to help understand the types and the levels of qualifications from other countries and it helps clarify what a person knows and understands and really is able to do.  

Samantha:    00:19:15    So if you have a license to practice your remote work, for example, your an online therapist, then you will need to get a score from the QNQ before you apply. And then of course you need to have your degrees and your licenses a postel and translated. So it isn't just a matter of saying, yeah, I have a degree, here you go. There's a lot more to it. And for some of you who may have graduated a long time ago, now's the time to dig up that degree and order your old transcripts. You might even need to order your degree again. 'cause some people lose these things, you're going to need them. Now the third thing I want to mention is the taxes. Yes, I can tell your ears just all perked up 'cause it's a big question. When you arrive in Italy on the digital nomad visa, you have eight days to apply for your pro journal.  

Samantha:    00:20:06    Now when you head over to the URA to get your fingerprints and your photographs, you'll also be required to open a Partita IVA or a small Italian business. Now there's a few different kinds of businesses that are attached to tax regimes that you can choose from. Um, for example, like the regime forfeiture, which is a flat 5% tax and you can't make more than 85,000 a year or the regime in patriate, which has just been changed to 50% of your income being tax free. But there are a lot of restrictions and requirements for both of those regimes, which we're going to cover in a future episode. For now, I just need you to understand three very important things about it. Number one, when you move to Italy on a digital nomad visa, you must open an Italian party, Tova, an Italian business, and pay tax on the income that you earn while you're here.  

Samantha:    00:21:04    Number two, if you stay long enough, longer than half of the year and or register as a resident to get all those juicy benefits like healthcare and buying a car, et cetera, then you will also be moving your taxable residents to Italy. This means that you have to disclose your worldwide income and assets to the Italian tax authorities and potentially pay tax. And finally, if you want to renew your digital nomad visa after the first year, because remember it's only good for 12 months renewable, you will need to have a valid business. So a valid part to Eva. So if you're thinking, no, no, I'm not getting into any of that stuff, I'm just going to stay super quiet and go about my business and not bother anyone, think again because you will not be able to stay beyond the first year because you won't be able to prove that you have a part to Teva.  

Samantha:    00:21:59    And if you've been here and you haven't declared your income to the tax office and they learn about it, you are in for a world of trouble my friends. So it's not worth it. Taxes are complicated and deserve an entire episode. They really do, which I'm going to be doing later on. But for this episode, I want you to just have clarity on these new developments. So to recap, number one, you need to have a degree or license full stop. Number two, you need to put your degree or license through the qualification processes like the ChiIA or the QNQ. This could be complex, so you might need some help. And number three, you need to open your own Italian company and pay tax in Italy on your earnings as a digital nomad visa and potentially also earnings on your worldwide assets and um, anything you make somewhere else.  

Samantha:    00:22:54    And that's only if you stay for half of the year or become a resident. These are all significant updates that I wanted to share and as we continue down the digital nomad visa path, I promise I'll keep you informed, but that wasn't all I wanted to talk to you about today. I was thinking that about the digital nomad visa and why is it so popular and why do so many people want to be nomadic or digital nomads? Italy isn't the only country that has this visa and more and more people are jumping on. So I asked a friend and a professional nomad Kristin Wilson from Traveling with Kristin to share some of her thoughts on being a digital nomad and giving some real world insights about the ups and the downs of this particular lifestyle. Well, Hello Kristin, nice to speak to you again and thanks for coming to the show.  

Samantha:    00:23:48    Okay, well Kristin, so nice to talk to you again. I am really excited because as you know, the Italian government has finally approved the digital nomad visa for Italy. It is one of those visas that we have been waiting for for I think for a couple of years they've been teasing us. And finally it came out in April, the beginning of April. So it's still super, super new. And because we're having so many new people coming in and so many, you know, it's opening the doors for a lot of other people that don't just have to have this, um, you know, uh, big bank account to get here. I wanted to talk to you about life as a digital nomad because you've been one for how long?  

Kristin:     00:24:31    It's, I was just trying to figure that out yesterday. I think it's been about 15 years of my life that I've been nomadic.  

Samantha:    00:24:40    And you like the word nomadic.  

Kristin:     00:24:42    I guess? Well, yes, and as a digital nomad, I found that you can go through seasons of being fully nomadic, semi nomadic settling in different places. And that's what I really like about the lifestyle is the flexibility. So in my younger years I would travel the world on a one-way plane ticket, you know, no end date in sight and just kind of go where the wind took me and, and spend a week here, a few days there, a month there and, you know, travel very quickly. But then, um, depending on, you know, the type of life phase or season that you're in, you might crave something where you want to stay longer. It's three months, six months, one year in a different place, or even sometimes come back to your home country to reset and then go travel again. So I first started working remotely in 2008 and I was living in Costa Rica, but I was working in Nicaragua.  

Kristin:     00:25:45    So that was my first experience being a digital nomad because I was working in, I was traveling and working remotely in a place that I didn't live or that I, you know, I wasn't working in the, the country that I was traveling in. And this is a very common requirement for digital nomad visas that you're earning an income outside of the country that you're visiting or that you're living in. And so yeah, that was my first time doing it, although I have gone back a couple of times to the US to live for a few months. But yeah, in general since 2008 I've been since before I knew what a digital nomad was. Yeah, <laugh>, I've been a digital nomad. <laugh>.  

Samantha:    00:26:23    I was gonna say, you, uh, you you broke the mold probably, or you started it at the beginning because Yeah, I think, you know, technology and maybe COVID has helped springboard this whole concept of being able to live in different places around the world and still work and still make money mm-hmm.

Kristin:     00:26:41    You know, but that's why I think we're all, all well, um, digital nomads were so excited when the first digital nomad visas came out because it was a way to stay longer in countries that sometimes you can only stay for 30 days or 90 days, or in the case of Europe, of course with the Schengen zone 90 days throughout all of those countries combined before you have to leave for 90 days if you don't have residency or a different type of work permit or long-term permit. So not all of the digital nomad visas have been very practical and easy to apply for. But the Italy digital digital nomad visa looks a lot more flexible. And I also like that it is a path to long-term residency, which the other ones don't offer. So it's really interesting and I was thinking, yeah, maybe I could try it out as well or definitely recommend it to some of my relocation clients. Right.  

Samantha:    00:27:35    Well it is, I mean, it is flex uh, you know, it's Italy, so there's, you know, it's not always straightforward, but the nice thing about this visa is exactly what you said, and that's different from other ones, is that you can build your, you can bank your time towards your EU long-term permit. So after five years of being in here on a digital nomad visa, you can, uh, get that long-term tenure permit. And some people, I think maybe you can, um, clarify this for me 'cause you work with a lot of people wanting to do this, um, you know, all over the world to live this lifestyle. So do most people really want to stay somewhere for a long period of time or is the idea of being nomadic really in entrenched and they want to be able to continue to move on to the next, the next shiny object?  

Kristin:     00:28:26    My personal opinion is that when people start out, they have a lot of energy and enthusiasm for the digital nomad lifestyle and wanting to travel as fast, as far as long, as much as possible. But ultimately the concept of traveling at a fast pace full-time while working full-time and really making the most of your time in each place, this means going sightsee, meeting people, finding community, but also being productive and getting work done. I think it's a big ask of any human being. And I think that there is a shelf life of this pace of travel. I, I mean, I personally, I've done it for years, but I, we're humans, we need to rest, we need to recover, we need to, uh, take breaks and we need to have consistency, routine, and normalcy at some point. And you know, when you think of the typical nine-to-five traditional lifestyle or even pre-industrial times, people, uh, working in agriculture, farming, everyone stayed in the same place to work and had very consistent routines.  

Kristin:     00:29:40    Whereas before that, when people were more nomadic, they were nomadic for a specific reason usually of trying to find food, shelter, safety, and people were traveling in tribes in Pax, they were basically traveling with their community. What we're doing now is incredible because we have more freedom than any human being has ever had in the history of humanity. We're able to get on a plane and be on the other side of the world in a matter of hours and we can make money from anywhere. So it's like, it's such a fun time to be alive. But at the same time, I think that ultimately it's, it's an unnatural way to live forever in my opinion. I think it's something that you can interchange with, okay, I'm gonna travel for a while and then I'm gonna settle for a while and then I'm gonna travel again.  

Kristin:     00:30:32    Or even settle and take, you know, there might be people who work remotely and work from home and they want to keep their homes, but they want to be able to travel intermittently throughout the year. I think the idea of like a digital backpacker who roams the world forever and never stays anywhere, I think that has like a limited time like lifespan on it. And there are nomads out there who will say, I will do this forever, but you know, maybe they've only been doing it for five years. And I'm like, okay, well come back 10 years from now or eight years from now or or 20 years from now and tell me if you're still going to a different place every week or every month. You know, I think ultimately people, you'll meet somebody that you connect with and you want to stay with or you come across a country that you can see yourself living in at least a few months a year. And so now we have people that have three or four home bases around the world that they rotate between. So I think there's going to be an evolution of the nomadic lifestyle to where it's whatever you want it to be for you and, um, not necessarily like the media's portrayal of it, which is just, you know, someone who doesn't own anything. Yeah. And they just travel with a backpack for the rest of their lives. Right. Or carry on. Yeah.  

Samantha:    00:31:50    Well I think Instagram is, um, you know, at, I guess responsible for that messaging or that image that it's providing. But I have a question for you just based on what you were saying when you said that some nomads, uh, digital nomads have these communities all over the world. How do you do that? You know, I know that we have a lot of people that we help come over here. One of their biggest fears or, or worries is that they'll be lonely and that they won't meet people. What has been your experience when you've transplanted to a new country?  

Kristin:     00:32:20    Uh, yes. I actually just did a video on that a few weeks ago on loneliness as a digital nomad, uh, for my traveling with Kristin Channel. And, you know, people in the comments were like, thank you for making this video because it's a great question. People don't talk about it enough or the downsides of it. And at first I found that I was less lonely while traveling because you have so many more opportunities to meet people compared to, let's say if you grew up in your hometown and then got a job there and kind of stayed in the same area, you would have a strong community because you would know a lot of people, but you might not go outside of your routine or your comfort zone to meet new people all the time. Whereas when you're traveling and you're in new places, you're vulnerable in a way, like in a good way because that's why we travel.  

Kristin:     00:33:12    We want to be out of our comfort zones, we wanna see new things, we wanna meet new people. And so it can be easier to meet people that way through, you know, sometimes it could be organically through your normal lifestyle there, but it really helps if you sign up for meetups or let's say you join a Facebook group and they're having in-person meetups, or you go on a website like InterNations and become a member, pay a few dollars per month and then you can access their events or you can go on Meetup.com. And what I found is that it only takes meeting one person to really change your entire experience in that country. And all of a sudden you, you have access to that, that entire social circle and friend group. Like I, I met a, a girl once, she was the wife of one of my relocation clients and they were living in the Netherlands and I, I met her, I think it was in 2013, and now they live in the Dominican Republic. But because I met her there in the Netherlands and I met her friends, she invited me to like a house party, a dinner, I then became friends with her friends. And now every time I go back to the Netherlands, I meet up with the same people. I go to their weddings. You know, it's like this whole friend circle that I, that I have that I wouldn't have had if I hadn't have met her. So you need to get out there and try to meet people, but then once you do, you get that momentum.  

Samantha:    00:34:39    I think that's a really good point. And also this concept of, you know, the, the world is small. I think when you start traveling around, which is probably something you've come to realize or experience, and when you meet people from other countries, this is I think one of the bonuses of being nomadic or even just even taking, uprooting yourself from where you are and taking a chance and perhaps coming to Italy on a digital nomad visa, you're not just hanging around the people that you know, or in the environment that you feel safe and comfortable. You're pushing yourself a little bit to try new things or just be a little bit uncomfortable, which is, and meet people from other other countries, which is only gonna help you grow. So I, I don't know. I mean, I guess my question to you is what's the downside to it? You've done it long enough, what would you say the downside is?  

Kristin:     00:35:30    I, I would say the biggest downside is probably if you're looking for a long-term relationship, I think that's been the hardest thing for me because when you're traveling nomadically, you can meet local people that have their local lives. So it might take some time, as you know, to, to get to know the locals, you typically need to know the local language and then, you know, just because you're a traveler or a foreigner in their country, like they've been living there their whole lives. So it's going to be a bit of a different type of, of relationship or interaction there. Then if you meet other, so let's say if you meet a local that you fall in love with and then you don't have a visa and you can't stay, then that can be a complication there and they probably don't wanna leave. So then if you meet another traveler, you might be going in separate directions.  

Kristin:     00:36:27    I mean, that literally happened to me once I met somebody, uh, on a bus to from Croatia to Bosnia. And he had just finished a, a year long or two year long sabbatical. He was from the UK and had I met him at the beginning of his sabbatical, you know, things would've been different, but he was on his way back home, so, you know, we never saw each other again 'cause he was literally leaving after we were in the same place for a few days. Um, so you can meet other travelers and you're just going your separate ways and, you know, never see them again. Um, or you know, if you, if you meet other nomads, then it can be very serious very fast. Because in order to, to see where the relationship goes, it's not like a normal relationship where you go out to the movies or you go out to dinner and you get to know each other slowly.  

Kristin:     00:37:20    It's like you have to decide, you have maybe a week or so or maybe a month if you're lucky of, of casual dating before you need to decide if you wanna see each other again. Do you start traveling together? Do you, you know, all of a sudden you're moving in together and, and <laugh>? Yeah, so I, I think that's been the hardest thing for me. Um, currently I'm in a, like a long term or a long distance relationship with someone who lives in Europe, but we haven't seen each other in more than six months, so it's really difficult. So yeah, I don't have the solution for that one yet, but, um, for me and, and many nomads, the, the freedom of travel, at least in the short to medium term has outweighed that. And I've also known many nomads who have met at, at events like nomad cruise or nomad base or events for world travelers and nomads that have met and fallen in love, gotten married, had kids, and now there's also a lot of families that travel nomadically and homeschool or world school. So it is possible, I think that's just a bigger challenge compared to if you live in one city. Yeah,  

Samantha:    00:38:30    I think it's a really good point that you say goodbye a lot.  

Kristin:     00:38:33    Yeah,  

Samantha:    00:38:34    A lot of goodbyes for sure. And I think your point of families moving, um, abroad and bringing their kids with them and uh, you know, putting them in these world schools, which are really quite an interesting concept as well. I think there's so many opportunities now. I loved at the very beginning when you said, we live in a, we're really lucky to be living in this time, to have this freedom that we have and the choices that people have now. And you know, I'm thrilled that now people can come here because in my opinion, Italy is one of the, you know, most beautiful countries in the world. It's complicated, but you know, nothing worthwhile is without challenge <laugh>. So, and it'll challenge you for sure, but I think the whole lifestyle, the whole starting and settling in and finding the permissions to get in and go through that settling in stage, no matter where you are, you have to, you have to bear with it and just do it.  

Kristin:     00:39:28    Right. And, and these other challenges of being a nomad, these are like long term challenges. They're not something that most people will be very concerned with when they first experiment with the lifestyle or even for the first few years it can be, uh, you know, I've been doing it for 15 years, so they're things that come up over the, over the long term. Also, you know, having a place to call home is important at some point. And you know, many people feel like they don't have any roots anywhere because they've just been traveling for many years. And so what I found is that it's helpful to have a base to come back to if you have enough disposable income to be able to buy property in Italy or in another country that you really love and you see could see yourself spending some time there each year.  

Kristin:     00:40:24    It's like little things like that. Like, uh, I had a home base in Miami during the pandemic and then got really used to having, you know, my own furniture, my own kitchenware, my own pillow bed, like my own stuff. And, and when I went traveling again the past couple of years, um, putting everything in storage and you know, not having, if you're an artist or a musician, you know, it's really hard to carry equipment with you or instruments with you. So there's certain things that way that can complicate the lifestyle. But I have kind of found this balance between settling and traveling. And I know when it's a period where I want to stay in one place for six months or eight months, and then I feel like traveling again for a few months and then I settle somewhere else or go back to a place that I've been to before.  

Kristin:     00:41:17    Like, I go back to Amsterdam usually once a year. I have family in Florida, so I like to come and visit them. And as we were saying right before we started recording, I just got back from visiting my sister who had a new baby. And she is a lawyer, she has a traditional job, she doesn't travel that much, she doesn't have many vacation days per year. So also another thing people can consider if they are location independent is being able to spend more time with family than you would if you were in a nine to five job. So that can mean going to visit where they live or it can mean traveling with them, you know, how fun would it be to, to be on a digital nomad visa in Italy and your family members and friends get to come visit you there you have this whole other experience and memory that you can create together.  

Samantha:    00:42:08    Exactly. And, and believe me, all you'll, you'll have a lot more friends than you thought you did <laugh>, if all of a sudden you're living in <laugh>, living in Italy, all of a sudden they come out, oh, hey, do you remember me? I'm coming to visit. It's, yeah, which is kind of a nice thing of course, but, um, I guess that that helps bring a little bit of home back and, and reground you I guess after some time. So the most important thing to know, what do you, what would you tell somebody the most important thing that they should know or do really before moving abroad?  

Kristin:     00:42:39    Yes. The most important thing, and this goes for nomads as well as expats or people that are thinking of moving to another country temporarily or even permanently immigrating to another country. I get a lot of email inquiries where people are trying to find a remote job or create a form of remote income, like a, a remote income stream or online business at the same time that they are thinking of transitioning into a digital nomad lifestyle or moving to another country. And it's like what came first, the chicken or the egg. I definitely recommend to everybody to have your income consistent and proven before attempting to live like a digital nomad or immigrate to another country and get permanent residency somewhere. Uh, unless you think that you can find a job there. So there might be somebody going from Canada to Panama and they haven't been there before and they're like, well, I could I find a job in Panama or can I find a remote job?  

Kristin:     00:43:48    And I explained to them, okay, the, the minimum wage in Panama is much lower than Canada. So even if you do get a work permit and get a local job, like you might be making $800 per month and that it's a different lifestyle than you're used to. Or it can be, it can take six months to a year to find a remote salary job or it can take a few months or a year or even a few years to do a startup or an online business that is profitable, you know. So I recommend to people to start their side hustle or their job search and get that out of the way before they move unless they're moving to another country with a company sponsor where they're going to be working there on a traditional work permit. So I think a lot of times people see this opportunity and then they wanna change everything at once, but the one thing that all of my relocation clients, all of my digital nomad clients, everyone has had in common is that they had some form of reliable income before they started traveling, whether they were retirees or remote workers or freelancers.  

Kristin:     00:44:55    And uh, yeah. So that, that's definitely very important.  

Samantha:    00:44:58    Really good. Yeah, really I think the number one thing for sure, and, and we hear it all the time as well, can I get a job there? If I move there, I'll just, you know, I've always wanted to start a YouTube channel. I'll just do that because it's least so beautiful. And you're right, they have, you have to have at least something stable and reliable because everything else is going to be different. So it's nice to have something that you can count on while you're getting used to the change  

Kristin:     00:45:19    And you wanna be able to enjoy where you are and not spend 80 hours a week working from your computer because you're trying to make ends meet so you don't run out of money. It's like if you wanna take a sabbatical and go travel on your savings, you don't have to worry about working. But when you're thinking of working part-time or full-time and then traveling at the same time, it's, it's a lot. Unless you're a roving retiree and you, you're living on your pension and you can just travel and enjoy <laugh>,  

Samantha:    00:45:49    Enjoy. Yeah, that's right. Well this is great advice. I mean, obviously you know what you're talking about with all your experience, so tell everybody where they can find you.  

Kristin:     00:45:58    Sure. So I have a weekly podcast that's called Badass Digital Nomads, where I interview other location independent and unconventional people around the world. We have close to 300 episodes now, so it's been going since 2019 and I also publish weekly on my YouTube channel Travelling with Kristin that you can just search that on YouTube and if people want to get in touch with me for support for moving to another country, I have a program called Ready to Relocate that gets you ready to move overseas in two to three months. So this is for if you want to go to Costa Rica or Portugal or Spain or any country in the world, um, but it doesn't do what you do with Italy with the, the residency paperwork and everything. So, so you can find that at travelingwithKristin.com/relocation.  

Samantha:    00:46:53    Perfect. Okay, well we're going to put all of those links inside the show notes so people can find them there as well. Thank you so much again, it's so nice to chat with you again and uh, with our common last names. Yes. It's always fun <laugh>.  

Kristin:     00:47:07    Yes. And congrats on all of your, I love your new YouTube videos. I've been watching the Italy videos and uh, definitely hope to get back over there in the near future, so I'll let you know.  

Samantha:    00:47:17    Oh, good. Yes, for sure. We'll have to go out for a, a few cocktails.  

Kristin:     00:47:22    Yeah, you know, Italy was the first place I ever traveled at 17 years old ever abroad. That was my first overseas trip. It was my graduation trip with my mom and my grandmother paid for it because her family was from Italy, from Sicily, and that was her gift to me and it's always been a special place. I went there in the year 2000 and then I went back for my birthday 20 years later and it was, it was, it was great. We went to the Amalfi Coast and Positano, and so the first time I did Rome to Naples or no, no Rome to, uh, Tuscany and around the northern, uh, part of the country. And then the next time I went down south to Naples and um, Positano. So it, it has a always a very special place in my heart as I'm about 25% Italian. So I have to You go going back there. Yeah,  

Samantha:    00:48:16    For sure. <laugh>. Well, we're here when you're here, when you're ready. And, um, I hope to see you next time you're on our side. Great.  

Kristin:     00:48:23    Talk to you soon.  

Samantha:    00:48:24    Alright, Kristin. Talk to you soon. Ciao.  

Kristin:     00:48:26    Ciao.  

Kristin:     00:48:28    Thank you so much for spending time with me today. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Samantha from Smart Move Italy. Remember, you can get links to all of the resources we talked about on the show, in the show notes, and please fill out our podcast listener survey today and enter to win a free $100 Amazon gift card. You can also find the links to my most recent YouTube videos and also the link to pre-order Moving Abroad, which will be coming out in 2025. Thanks again to all of our Patreons and donors and everyone who left a review this year. I love you guys. Thank you for your support and I will see you again soon.