Living the Slow Life in Portugal with Veteran Digital Nomad, Conni Biesalski

Sneak Peek:

Conni    00:00:00    

I needed to be on the go to somehow feel okay. But the idea of staying in a place for longer than a few months was terrifying for me. And I think that in itself, you know, looking back, I think was <laugh> the symptom of, of, of a trauma response there. And I think, you know, if people notice that within themselves, they're like so vehemently opposed to the idea of staying in a place for longer than a few months, then it could be interesting to look into what might be hiding underneath that. Yeah.  

Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests.

Kristin    00:00:54    

Hey there, Kristin from Traveling with Kristin here and welcome to episode 263 of Badass Digital Nomads. My guest today is Conni Biesalski, who is a longtime digital nomad and world traveler who is now settled in Portugal. She's a somatic coach, a breath work and meditation teacher, and a surf yoga enthusiast living in Aricera, Portugal. And she supports people in recovering from chronic stress and trauma, some of which we'll talk about today, in addition to living the slow life in Portugal. Also how a life of long-term travel and burnout led her to landing there. Conni is someone who I've been following online for at least 10 years, and it's such a pleasure to welcome her to the podcast today. If you are struggling with any type of burnout or mental health issues, then I want to bring your attention to BetterHelp, which is an online therapy platform that I've been using for the past few months.  

Kristin    00:02:03    It's professional, it's affordable, it's convenient, and it's effective. More than 4.7 million people have received therapy through BetterHelp. And when you sign up through my refer a Friend link in the show notes, you can get a free two week trial and also $100 in credits when you become a paying member. It works for individuals, couples, and also for teens if you have a child who's in need of any therapy. And what I really like about it is that rather than searching the internet or talking to your insurance about trying to find the right therapist for you, it actually helps match you with a therapist by just filling out a short few minutes intake form. If for some reason it's not working out with you and your therapist, it's really easy and fast to change to another practitioner. And after having gone through some tough challenges this year, it's been really helpful for me. But I've also have experience with therapy in many phases of life over the years and it's been just so convenient and useful to be able to log in and have my sessions conveniently online, especially as someone who travels often. So check out my refer a friend link in the show notes and you can get that free two week trial and $100 credit with BetterHelp.  

Podcast Interview:

Kristin (00:01.582)

I'm so pleased to welcome an OG digital nomad onto the podcast today. This is Conni Biesalski. Welcome, Conni.

Conni Biesalski (00:12.205)

Hello, thanks for having me. Super stoked to be here.

Kristin (00:16.238)

I think you're one of the first digital nomads that I ever came across on the internet when I started Googling digital nomads when I realized they existed. It was you and Chris the freelancer and digital nomad girl. I don't know if she still makes videos. You were the only.

Conni Biesalski (00:21.261)

Really?

wow.

Haha.

yeah. That's so funny. That's a long time ago. Wow.

Kristin (00:38.318)

Yeah, that must have been like 2012, probably 2013. When did you first start out in this lifestyle?

Conni Biesalski (00:42.253)

Mm.

Conni Biesalski (00:47.181)

I think, yeah, well, it was 2012 as a digital nomad. Before that, I was an analog nomad and, and I started making videos probably around 2013 or so. And then I switched to English, I don't know, maybe 2015. I don't remember. So, I don't know, somewhere around there.

Kristin (01:04.75)

Okay, how were you an analog nomad? Give us a bit of an insight into your background and how you even stumbled into this lifestyle.

Conni Biesalski (01:13.869)

Sure. So, well, I left home when I was 15 and went on one of those high school exchange years to the United States. And then I did a year. I lived with a family there, went to high school and I came back and then I didn't really, yeah, I didn't really perform anymore at school. Let's put it that way. And then my parents sent me off to a

a school in England, just outside of Brighton. And so I got my A levels there. So I graduated there. And then from then on, I'd already lived in different countries for three years. And then I was almost 18. And I don't know, for me, I just didn't feel like living in Germany that much. And so I just that's when I kind of started traveling. I went to university in Austria. And then eventually I

took off in 2009. Yeah, it was 2009. So before that, I went on trips lasting weeks to a few months and all over the world. But then in 2009, I got on a one -way ticket to India and eventually moved on to Indonesia and I became a scuba dive instructor. And so,

That was like my main goal at that point in my life. I was like, I want to be a scuba dive instructor. I just want to live in the most beautiful places, love the island life and yeah, and be free in that way. And so up until that point, I had no idea that there was even the option to make money online. And I don't think it was a big thing yet back then. And although, when did Tim Ferriss's...

for our work we come at, I think it was 2008 maybe?

Kristin (03:09.71)

2007. I think it was 2007.

Conni Biesalski (03:12.877)

Yeah, right. So that already existed, but I didn't know about it yet. So for me, I was looking into literally analog ways to be nomadic. And for me, being a scuba dive instructor was the perfect solution. And so I was living in Indonesia for a while, and then I moved to Australia. I was working on the Great Barrier Reef. And eventually I fell in love and we decided to move to Germany for a year so she could learn German, meet my family.

And then, and that's when I had, I think my first grownup job in like a PR agency or something, but I always knew it was temporary. And I quit, I think after six months or so. And that's when I then during that time, I found out about, okay. So you can make money on the internet. Okay. Let's, let's figure this out. And then I made the switch. Yeah.

Kristin (04:07.982)

Amazing. How was it teaching scuba diving in Indonesia? Were you in Bali or which area?

Conni Biesalski (04:15.437)

I was on the Gili Islands. I was on Gili Trawangan back then when it was still very, I don't know, pretty chill. Yeah, 2009, 2010, that, yeah. So it was awesome. And I did spend a bit of time in Bali, but wasn't really interested in Bali at that time. And I think my interest for Bali grew maybe in 2014 or so is when I actually started to spend more time there, but.

Yeah, the ghillies mainly and then on the Great Barrier Reef. And yeah, those were like my two main areas where I was teaching diving. Yeah, it was cool. It's fun times.

Kristin (04:52.846)

Well, what was the lifestyle like back then? Because I went to Bali in 2008 and everybody was talking about going to the Gili Islands. I never made it out there. I went to a few other islands around there, but I had never heard of it before until I got to Bali. And then it was like kind of locals and local friends were asking, are you going to go to the Gili's? And I...

Conni Biesalski (05:05.741)

Mm -hmm.

Kristin (05:18.51)

remember searching for it online just looked like this tropical paradise. I'm sure it's gotten more touristy now, but was it basically just eat, sleep, scuba dive, watch the sunset?

Conni Biesalski (05:18.637)

Alright.

Conni Biesalski (05:23.789)

Yeah.

Conni Biesalski (05:27.597)

Yeah.

Conni Biesalski (05:31.725)

Basically, yeah, I think that was it. And also actually a lot of partying, to be honest. Like that whole scuba dive instructor scene is very much about, at least back then, I don't know about today, but back then it was a lot about also partying. And I mean, that wasn't, you know, Gilly Trawangan is tiny. And so there wasn't that much to do. And in the end, yeah, it literally was sleep, dive, party, repeat sort of. And it was back in the days, like the island.

Kristin (05:36.718)

Kristin (05:40.302)

I'm sorry.

Conni Biesalski (05:59.917)

was still very basic. You know, we barely had electricity or hot water. Like this was still a thing. Barely any internet. And so, yeah, all you did was just hang out and meet a lot of people and go diving. And it was, for me, it was the dream. Literally the dream. Just freedom. Yeah. It was good. Yeah.

Kristin (06:21.614)

Yeah, that would be a literal paradise to live there during that time. And what did your family think back in Germany? And you're like, hey, I'm going to be living in this remote island in Indonesia from now on. And yeah.

Conni Biesalski (06:37.697)

Well, they were used to it because I'd already spent so much time abroad and traveling the world since I was a teenager. They were used to my obsession with traveling and my obsession with freedom. And so, yeah, I think it was it was really a non -negotiable. It's just like, that's what I'm doing. Peace. I guess I'm also lucky because I have.

three other siblings and, you know, so there's three others of me that, you know, yeah, of us that, you know, kind of take care of, being with my parents and things like that. So I don't know. I, I just, I guess I'm, and I'm really grateful in that respect also for my parents, because they just always trusted me and, just let me do my thing without, you know, judging me for it or wanting to limit me in, in.

my plans and my freedom. So yeah, they always sort of supported me in a way for sure.

Kristin (07:44.206)

That's amazing. I know not everyone's that lucky to have parents that are so accepting. But I do think I kind of barged my way into this lifestyle as well. And was like, I'm doing this with or without your approval, but.

Conni Biesalski (07:59.181)

Yeah.

Kristin (08:00.654)

My parents also were a little bit conditioned because I had traveled for surfing. I'd been to Puerto Rico and Mexico. Probably 16, 17 years old, my friends and I were doing road trips down to Baja, California and things like that. I think they were like, okay, well, Kristin's going to do whatever. They still asked me for many years, when are you coming home or when are you?

Conni Biesalski (08:05.901)

Mmm.

Conni Biesalski (08:17.837)

Nice. Those were the days. Yeah.

Conni Biesalski (08:29.517)

All right. All right.

Kristin (08:30.414)

I'm gonna get a job in corporate America and live in Columbus, Ohio or Chicago or something like that. So after you went back to Germany and kind of got this regular traditional job, we can say, and read the 4-Hour Work Week, what were some of the ways that you first made money online as a digital nomad?

Conni Biesalski (08:35.349)

Yeah.

Conni Biesalski (08:57.613)

Hmm. So I guess, yeah. So I was working in this PR agency and I was learning a fair amount about, you know, doing online PR for startups and doing social media. I knew how to build websites. So I've always been a little, I guess, tech nerd and I always loved writing and photography and making videos and all of that. And so I just started out freelancing and doing.

everything and anything from building websites. I did a fair amount of translation work for companies. I did some social media management. I wasn't an expert in any of the things that I was offering, but I just went for it and somehow it worked out. And then I started my travel blog, Planet Backpack in German. So before I had a...

another blog called a life of blue, which was in English. And it was all about, it was like, I was documenting my journey to becoming location independent and becoming a minimalist. And I then though discovered the sort of opportunity to, because you know, I was following, I don't remember what they were all called back then Nomadic Matt, I think was the one for sure. he was early in the game and a few others like him and.

Kristin (10:13.07)

Mm. Mm -hmm.

Conni Biesalski (10:19.565)

I never found good travel or backpacking information in German. And there really weren't, there were maybe a couple of blogs. They look terrible. And I just thought, wow, this, there's an opportunity here. And I started Planet Backpack and it just, it took off really quickly at the time. I think, yeah, I was just lucky. I was doing the right thing at the right time. And I,

Yeah, and then I made a lot of most of my income. So when I guess I started in 2012, really taking my laptop on the road and like working from Thailand and Bali and whatnot. And then it was freelancing mainly. But then by like 20, like even just a year after I started, I think my blog was making enough money for me to live off my blog just through like affiliate deals and and sponsorships with.

businesses and brands. And then I created this Epoch course eventually on how to become a digital nomad. I think I launched that in 2014 and that started to make a lot of money. And yeah, it was just all really organic. Like when I think back to those days, I was like, yeah, how did I pull that off? How did that even work out so easily? Yeah, yeah. I just went for it. And I was always...

Kristin (11:39.79)

with no experience in blogging.

Conni Biesalski (11:46.541)

I always loved learning and I loved the internet from when I was like super young. I, you know, just always was really fascinated by the digital world. And so I guess it just came easy to me, but otherwise, and I also think compared to today, it was just so much easier back then. Everything was easier because there weren't as many people doing it. And it was easy to rank a blog post for on Google. Right.

and, and search engine optimize it. It was easy to sell an eBook course because there weren't that many eBooks out there yet. You know what I mean? And I wasn't as distracted, with all these social media platforms back then. It was just Facebook. I mean, there was Instagram, but it wasn't really that commercial yet. I think it was just posting pretty photos from your travels and it was just easy. Yeah.

Kristin (12:42.03)

Yeah.

Or do you still have, I mean, I know Germans love to travel and having a travel blog in German, especially during those early days would have been quite lucrative. I did meet somebody, I'm forgetting their names now. This was in 2019 when I was traveling in Norway, I met a German travel blogger girl and she was still doing really well with that. That was like her full -time job. All right, do you still have that website? I know you've moved on to different topics now, but is...

Conni Biesalski (13:11.021)

Mmm.

Conni Biesalski (13:15.661)

Yeah, well, I sold the website. I sold the website in 20. I forgot if it's 2017 or 2018, but I did end up selling it because I was, yeah, I was just kind of done with that part. And I was more interested in really exploring personal development more and sharing more about my healing journey and.

Kristin (13:16.558)

Is that still going?

Conni Biesalski (13:44.685)

So yeah, I found these two guys and they like, I actually knew them before and I posted it in like a couple of random Facebook groups that I was selling the blog and it was still doing really well at the time. And then these two guys that I'd met in Mexico city just a few weeks prior, they ended up buying the website and it's still, I think it still exists. I haven't checked on it in a long time. And I think they just kind of,

connected it to their portfolio of websites. But yeah, just again, really lucky that I was able to sell it when I did, I think.

Kristin (14:24.334)

Is this around the time that you started feeling burnt out from travel or I know that you were traveling a lot at the same time that you were running the blog and creating content. And so kind of walk us through your.

evolution as a digital nomad and did selling this blog kind of align with you wanting to slow down a little bit in the travel lifestyle.

Conni Biesalski (14:55.373)

That's a really good question. I think what happened was I wasn't at that point, I don't think I was necessarily burned out yet from the traveling and from the digital nomad lifestyle. I think I was just burned out from just creating travel content and just being seen as Conni, the digital nomad and travel blogger. And I felt like I had so much more to talk about and so much more to share and that I was.

I felt really limited with the travel blog and I just noticed that I just didn't have the motivation and the passion for it as much anymore. And I also wanted to switch to English for whatever reason. Like that was just something that I felt like I wanted to do. And I started a second brand, which was called Live Your Heart Out.

at the time. And so I sold the blog and then I started Love Your Heart Out, which was really mainly about like finding your passion and like finding your purpose in life and just trying to answer a lot of the big questions that I was kind of struggling with at the time. And I guess my burnout from actually traveling and the digital nomad lifestyle, that slowly started to creep up.

And then I think I was ready to sort of maybe not settle down, settle down, but I was ready to have a home base. I think by maybe 2019, I was dating a woman. She was in, she was living in Los Angeles. She was American and she was tied to LA because of her job. And I just, I just felt like.

I wanted to slow down. I wanted a home base and I was ready to kind of start creating a life with her. I still wanted to be free and be able to travel. I don't think it was my plan to fully settle down in LA, but I would have. And that was the idea initially was to either go for a green card by getting married with her to her or figure out some other plan to get a proper visa.

Conni Biesalski (17:21.069)

to be able to stay long -term. And then by, it was the end of 2019 that we broke up and that was really tough because I had sort of made the decision for myself to sort of, yeah, create this home base with her in California. And I just also realized how...

good it felt to have a home base and to have a place to come back to that I enjoy being in. And so when the breakup happened, I yeah, I was really devastated and I didn't really know what to do with myself. But I did know I need a home base. I need a home base. I really need to slow down. I felt and that was something that I struggled with actually for years. Looking back, I really did struggle a lot with loneliness.

And I generally struggled with mental health issues like depression and, and some other health issues, like just massive skin issues and gut issues. And I just had this calling. I just felt, okay, I would really like to stay in one place and really build a community of people and, feel more grounded and more connected. I think that was kind of my,

my goal at the time and actually, but really coming from a place of struggle for sure. And so I decided, okay, so this didn't work out. And I still wanted to move to Southern California though. And I was like, I'm going to figure this visa thing out somehow. And I had everything organized and I was going to move to Encinitas, just north of San Diego, because I love surfing as well. And I'm...

I got on the plane and I flew into San Diego and then they pulled me out at the airport at immigration, which has never happened before. And yeah, interrogated me for a long time, mainly because I'd spent too much time in the States over a period of about two or three years. And I just got flagged in the system. And so basically they, they,

Conni Biesalski (19:45.165)

canceled my visa that I had at the time. So I wasn't on ESTA, I was on like a B1 visa or something. And that allowed me to stay for six months at a time. And so I, they literally just put this huge stamp, red stamp on my visa, on my passport and sent me home. Or like wherever I came from at that point, I came from Germany actually. And I then was,

I was actually told them they were going to send me home on like the next plane. And I was like, hold on, guys, I need to sort some stuff out with my ex -girlfriend. I need to pick up a few things. And it was like really dramatic. So they gave me three days to sort my life out. They kept my passport at the airport. And my God. Yeah, everything was super dramatic. I eventually flew back to Germany and.

I remember being there and being at my mom's house and I was like, I don't know what to do with myself. I don't want to stay here. I really didn't want to live in Germany and didn't feel connected to my home country and hadn't felt connected to my home country for years. And then I did have a breathwork teacher training plan though. So that was supposed to happen in February of 2020 in Canada.

And so I knew, OK, that was happening. So I flew over there and then I did the training. And as everyone knows, what happened next is that COVID happened. And while it might have been the worst thing to happen for a lot of people, it was the best thing that could have happened to me because I initially thought, I'm just going to wait this out in Canada.

I actually had a flight book to Mexico. So I decided like in the meantime, I was going to move to Mexico and on the Pacific coast, I was going to move to Sao Alita. I had a house book through Airbnb, like a long -term rental. Everything was organized. And then COVID came and then I was like, okay, well, I don't think I'm going to go to Mexico. So I canceled Mexico. I think I'm just going to stay in Vancouver for a while until this whole thing is over, which I thought was going to be a couple of months maybe.

Conni Biesalski (22:13.357)

And, and I didn't feel Vancouver. It just didn't, didn't feel right. And so I eventually got on a, I think one of the last planes to fly that, yeah, that was flying out to Germany. And I got on that plane and then I was in Germany and everything shut down. And I realized, wow, I'm actually really happy I'm here now. Cause I felt really safe with my mom and in our house and.

That felt good. And it felt like I really made the right decision there because I felt so ungrounded before, like the months leading up to that. I felt really ungrounded with any, like all of my decisions that I was making. And then I actually got the opportunity to stay in Germany, which I would have never done voluntarily ever for this long, but it gave me the opportunity for one to heal my home country roots, which I'd never done.

Kristin (23:11.054)

Hmm.

Conni Biesalski (23:12.269)

And I went on these long walks with our dog and we live in this, or like my mom lives in this small town where I grew up and I just, we just, I just walked every day and I really connected to, to the land and to, you know, the forest and I don't know, to the fields and to nature there and to the town. And it, it was so healing for me at the time.

It was very unexpected, but it felt really amazing. And then the other thing that happened was that I met my now wife in June of 2020. So we would have never met if it hadn't been for COVID and me being in Germany because I was always gone. And so we met and yeah, and eventually got married, but it was all very unexpected. And...

looking back, I'm really, really, really grateful for how everything went down and even the, the immigration thing and, you know, and, and the breakups and whatnot, because it all turned out for the better. but at the time, obviously it was a big struggle. So yeah, it was a wild journey.

Kristin (24:29.102)

It makes me think of that meme or something where it's like a graph where the person is standing in front of this big mountain or something and the top is right there, but they have the decision where they can turn around and go back. But it's like, we only see that little, we only see usually one step ahead of us and we can't really see the big picture of our lives until we look back.

in hindsight and we're like, you know, if that hadn't happened, then this wouldn't have happened. And it's like all of the like, quote unquote, bad things that happened or the struggles that we had were all leading up to something that we could have never anticipated. So it just gave me chills when you are talking about that. I mean, there's just so much that happened there. Let's start with the you mentioned the the burnout.

Conni Biesalski (24:59.949)

Mm -hmm. Exactly.

Conni Biesalski (25:15.757)

Totally.

Kristin (25:26.83)

that you felt. This is something I've talked about a lot on my podcast. I feel like it's become a theme in my life, is something I struggled with off and on over the years. I do think it happened before I had a travel lifestyle. It happened to me when I was in grad school at 20 years old. 21 years old was my first experience with burnout, but it's also happened while traveling. I know people have, it happens.

you know, if you're working a nine to five job, it happens if you're a digital nomad, like it can happen, you know, if you're from any country or anywhere. So what would you say are some of the symptoms that you felt of burnout? And also you mentioned it kind of crept up over the years. I think that's something that, that I can relate to that a lot of people can relate to where it starts as just like this little thought of like,

Conni Biesalski (26:10.029)

Mm.

Kristin (26:24.846)

maybe things aren't quite right. And then it kind of goes on for years. And then that's when you hit the actual burnout because we ignored the symptoms for all that time. So yeah, can you give us some insight into some of the symptoms that you felt? And how did you know? Because I think a lot of people aren't even aware that they're experiencing burnout until it's too late.

Conni Biesalski (26:46.349)

Mm -hmm.

Totally. Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good point because I don't think I realized it for the longest time. And I think I was really only able to put the pieces back together way after the fact, to be honest. I didn't know much about the nervous system and burnout and the stress reaction, you know, at the time. And I really only learned about it afterwards. But looking back,

So generally I was struggling with my mental health for years and I didn't realize that being nomadic and moving around so much wasn't actually contributing to my mental health. It was actually making it worse in the sense that moving around so much and changing places and constantly exposing myself to new environments and

and constantly having to negotiate, you know, community and, you know, making new connections and, was really stressful for my nervous system. And it actually costs a lot of internal stress. And I, and I think it was a combination of things in my case, where on the one hand, it was the burnout from traveling constantly for so many years. And, you know, really my hope.

almost my whole life since I was a teenager living in all these different places. But also, you know, I was struggling really hard in relationships and dating and had a really anxious attachment style and sometimes also an avoidant attachment style. And so that was causing a lot of stress as well, but also because I was having this nomadic life too. And so I was struggling really hard with...

Conni Biesalski (28:41.901)

gut issues. So that was something for years. I think it started in like 2017. And, and when it comes to digestive issues, chronic digestive issues, like leaky gut and irritable bowel syndrome and SIBO, and I had probably the combination of all of them. It, it's, it's a really good idea to live a grounded life and like a regulated life, rather than.

keep traveling and moving places. And so knowing what I know now, it was so much easier to heal my gut issues when I was in a more stable environment, for example, and where I felt more connected also to other people. I had a better support network. And so that was a big thing. I also struggled with...

I guess, resulting skin issues because that's usually always connected also to the gut. And just, yeah, like going from depression into anxiety, like it was just a lot of ups and downs and my nervous system was just massively dysregulated. And I was regulating and soothing myself by drinking alcohol, eating a ton of sugar and then traveling more because I thought that that would be the answer whenever I felt uncomfortable and I was.

struggling internally, the most logic decision for me was to go somewhere else because I thought that would make it better. And only to realize that, shit, I keep on taking my backpack of mental health issues and my dysregulated nervous system, I take that everywhere. And so I think for someone like me, traveling the world,

Kristin (30:16.462)

Leave.

Conni Biesalski (30:35.853)

with that backpack of also traumas and whatnot. It was a it wasn't sort of a logic reaction to how I grew up and and all of that. And so I was always craving freedom. And that was like the value that was the most important to me in my life. And at the same time, though.

doing what I did, I think prolonged my healing journey for a really, really long time. And I think I could have made it a lot easier on myself if I had just had a home for a while, while I was going through, because I was at the same time, like when 2012 happened and I I went through like my first big, huge breakup at the time, which was so devastating.

didn't know how to deal, had no tools. And that was also the year 2012 when I started to become a digital nomad and be location independent with my online business. And so from 2012 onwards, I was on this healing journey because it was literally like my awakening moment in 2012. And I think even though I was...

lucky in a sense that, you know, I could travel the world and go to all these amazing retreats and workshops and learn from all these amazing teachers and therapists. At the same time, it was just really taxing on my nervous system and on my body. And I think one of the biggest things was the lack of constant like, yeah, constant community and just a lack of stable connections. That was probably one of the main things, to be honest. Yeah.

Kristin (32:29.198)

Mm -hmm and a routine

Conni Biesalski (32:31.469)

Yeah, yeah.

Kristin (32:33.102)

Yeah, it is interesting how, you know, a little bit of something can be really good for you, but too much of it is toxic or fatal. It's like that with anything, even with water, you know, drink a lot of water every day. But if you drink too much, you could die. Like it's like that with everything in life, there's this balance to be uncovered. And I also went through a really bad breakup in...

Conni Biesalski (32:42.797)

Mm -hmm.

Totally. Yeah.

Yeah.

Kristin (33:01.774)

It was like 2012, 2013. And that's when I started my nomadic journey was in 2013. And it helped so much with processing that breakup and maybe distracting yourself from things. And I remember going to healers and Mexico and Thailand and you're just craving like information and connection with other people and anything that can help you with.

Conni Biesalski (33:07.693)

Mmm.

Conni Biesalski (33:12.717)

Yeah, definitely.

Conni Biesalski (33:20.557)

Mm -hmm.

Kristin (33:31.214)

subsiding that pain from the breakup and new places, new faces, new experiences. And it does help, but then you need time to integrate those things that you learned and what you learned from that retreat or that conference or that meetup or that friendship that you had, or even from the history and the culture of the places that you're in.

Conni Biesalski (33:34.925)

Yeah.

Kristin (33:57.006)

So can you share, you have a lot of tools now that you help other people with, whether it's breath work and other things. So what are some of the tools that you uncovered and learned that helps you cope with that and heal with that? And now that you're sharing with people today.

Conni Biesalski (34:02.229)

Mm -hmm.

Conni Biesalski (34:14.765)

Yeah, for sure. So, yeah, I guess to summarize, like from 2012 until about 2018 or so I was, I was doing therapy. I was doing it online. I was working with different coaches. I was going to the Tony Robbins events to Dr. Joe Dispenza retreats. Like, you know, got certified as a, as a yoga and meditation teacher and.

did a lot of things, did plant medicine, worked with a shaman one -on -one in Ecuador and really tried out everything that I could, did all the detox fasts and whatnot. Like it was a wild, like wild six years. And then eventually I realized, okay, well somehow I'm doing all these things, but I'm not really getting better. And...

And then I discovered Breathwork and that was in 20, I think it was 2017, 2018. And then. And then then, but it took another while for me to really get into it, which it needed another breakup. So that was the 2019 breakup. So and then. And I was in Bali at the time and and I just knew at that point, I was like, OK, I can't.

just go through this breakup and stay in my mind and use mindset work and affirmations and talk therapy. I knew I needed to get down to the level of my body. And I reached out, I think, in the Canggu Facebook Group or Digital Nomads Facebook group, and I asked around for breathwork teachers because at the time it wasn't that big yet. Not as big as it is today.

And then some people recommended, I don't think I was asking for breathwork. I was asking for body -based modalities. And a lot of people recommended these breathwork teachers and guides and I was like, okay, let's go. And so I just dove headfirst into breathwork full on, worked with several different breathwork facilitators and just really had these amazing experiences that helped me to process the breakup in a way that...

Conni Biesalski (36:40.621)

I'd never been able to, and it was just so beautiful to be able to process these emotions like anger and grief in a way that was really just conscious, but also work with my body in that sense, something that I'd never really done before. And I always thought I felt my emotions, but I was really just thinking my emotions and then getting caught in the loop of thinking my emotions. And so the breath really showed me, okay,

this is another way. And I also was able to move through the breakup grieving process much quicker than I was in the past. And so through Transformational Breathwork, I guess I should clearly define what kind of breathwork that was. It was conscious connected breathing, Transformational Breathwork. And then I dove.

deeper and deeper into all things, breath, nervous system, trauma, somatics, and got certified in several different modalities. And I was working with somatic psychotherapists also, and just really exploring healing in a whole new way. Rather than going top down, I was going bottom up. And so I...

Yeah, eventually also started to get certified in Somatic Experiencing, which is a trauma healing modality. and, and yeah. So for me, I guess some of the, the biggest things were definitely breath work, transformational breath work, but also establishing a daily regulating breathing routine. really a routine where, I allowed my body to, down regulate itself.

from being very much in high sympathetic mode, so really always being in activation mode, being in fight or flight, to actually helping my body calm down and come into a state of rest and relaxation, which was something that it was actually really difficult in the beginning because my body and I was just so used to always being on the go and traveling around, meeting all these people and having all these...

Conni Biesalski (38:59.533)

experiences that activated my nervous system, it was actually really hard to slow down and to do practices that were, I guess, boring in a sense for my nervous system. They were boring. and, but they were mainly boring because I was just used to just always being in sympathetic mode. And, and so I guess that that's another thing that being, you know, always on the go and traveling and moving places, it just,

was really hard for my body to really come down and relax. And it was constantly seeking out these peak experiences, right? These experiences that would trigger my adrenaline and whatnot. And so, yeah, really embracing practices that helped my nervous system, my body to relax was huge. And then doing somatic therapy.

like Somatic Experiencing and NARM So really working on my traumas from childhood and working on my anxious attachment and my abandonment fears. And yeah, so that was absolutely huge. But really from a somatic perspective rather than just talk therapy. And then overall, I mean, also in terms of really...

healing my body and my digestive issues and you know, struggling a lot with brain fog and low energy because of my digestive issues. So I had to really adjust a lot of things. I mean, for sure, my diet got an overhaul. I stopped drinking or almost stopped drinking alcohol. I quit drinking coffee and caffeine in general. So I made a lot of lifestyle adjustments and

Also, I think I guess one of the biggest lifestyle adjustment for me was to be in a long -term relationship that was actually stable and healthy and being with a partner that was ready and open to do the inner work with me together. And then we, so that in itself really also gave me a lot of, just a lot of stability being in a stable relationship. And then two years ago,

Conni Biesalski (41:18.381)

we moved to Portugal. So while we were, when we met in 2020, I guess I was still in a way nomadic. I didn't have a permanent home. She had a home in Hamburg, but I didn't really like living there so much. So we stayed there for a few weeks here and there, but then we spent quite a lot of time in Sri Lanka during COVID. And then eventually we decided to move to Portugal two years ago. And

That decision was huge because like signing a long -term lease and then we got a puppy, like getting a dog is like, you know, that's like, yeah, there was such a big commitment. But I was also really excited about that commitment of actually, you know, being in a long -term relationship, creating a home together, which was new for me. And I was, I'm 40 now, I'm about to turn 41. So I was,

Kristin (41:58.798)

Yeah, it's like a kid.

Conni Biesalski (42:16.365)

you know, 38, which is quite late, but to experience that, but it was really healing. And just being here and having a home base has been really, really just, yeah, healing, grounding, all of the things. Yeah, for sure.

Kristin (42:34.03)

Wow, we've lived such a parallel life. Like we're basically the same age and we started traveling at the same time. We were in the same places at the same time. Like I was also in Vancouver right before the pandemic started. I've gone on a lot of the same healing journey. I've tried all the things, the plant medicine, Somatic Experiencing, like all. Yeah, it's really interesting. We'll have to talk off the record about that later, but.

Conni Biesalski (42:47.277)

Well.

No way.

wow. Wow. Yeah. Right. Wow.

Conni Biesalski (43:04.141)

Yeah, I'm surprised we haven't met before or crossed paths.

Kristin (43:04.494)

Kristin (43:09.07)

I know. I always say that I never met another digital nomad until 2018 when I went on the Nomad Cruise. And that was really my first entry into meeting other people in real life, not just following people online or whatever. But it can be difficult to meet digital nomads sometimes unless you're going to.

Conni Biesalski (43:17.677)

Mmm.

Conni Biesalski (43:22.541)

Mm -hmm.

Right.

Conni Biesalski (43:29.293)

Right, right, right. It depends what sort of lifestyle you have or what kind of places you like to go to. Yeah, for sure.

Kristin (43:37.038)

Yeah, and I tend to live like a quote unquote normal life in the places that I go. I like to kind of just integrate there and adapt and just meet people organically. And chances are they're not nomadic. They just live there or they're from there or whatever. But that creates another issue because like if you're there on a tourist visa and you know that your time is limited, but you make

Conni Biesalski (43:54.892)

Right.

Kristin (44:04.718)

you know, you try to get into a normal lifestyle, it's actually not normal because you're leaving in a few months. So then unless you go back every year and see the same people, but that's another challenge. But do you think that the breath work would help people who are actively nomadic with grounding into these places?

Conni Biesalski (44:10.349)

Mm -hmm.

Conni Biesalski (44:15.117)

Yeah, that's true.

Kristin (44:31.342)

Or do you think that it's just, you know, it's something that can help at any time, but ultimately being nomadic is like a phase or a season of life that is going to have a timeline for many people where ultimately you settle down. So I guess it's like,

Conni Biesalski (44:47.501)

Hmm.

Kristin (44:51.79)

If you had been doing all of this like healing and breath work during that travel phase, do you think that could have helped or extended that phase or ultimately did it need to be in combination with settling down?

Conni Biesalski (45:07.149)

Mm -hmm. Well, I think I wish I had discovered somatic practices like breathwork before. I think it would have really helped me to because I think what I was lacking for the longest time was a connection to myself. And I was looking for that connection in all these different places and in all these other people that I was meeting or hoping to meet and all these potential partners. And, you know, and so I guess.

I wish I had discovered breath work earlier, just because it really helped me to connect to myself and feel more grounded. And on the one hand, with the regulating breathing practices and the functional breathing, and on the other hand, it just really helped me to learn how to consciously process emotions. And so, which, yeah, was something that I didn't really know how to do until that point. And so I think it would have, I don't think it...

I don't know if it would have ended my digital nomad life earlier if I discovered it earlier, but I think it would have made generally my life so much easier. And I think that, and I don't regret anything, any choices that I've made. Like I thought about this recently and I was wondering now would you have done anything differently? And I mean, I had.

the time of my life. And I continue to have the time of my life. Like I'm super happy and grateful to live in a place like Portugal now and I'm still free. Like I still mainly work online and if I wanted to, I could travel the world tomorrow. But, well, I guess we have a puppy now, but we could sort that one out. But yeah, one way or another, I think being a digital nomad and for me, I thought this was going to be forever.

But I was also that kind of person. I would always think when I discovered something and I was really passionate about it, like, this is it. Like, I remember when I was a scuba... Yeah, this is it forever. When I was a scuba dive instructor, I thought I was going to be a scuba dive instructor for the rest of my life. And when I became a travel blogger, I was like, I want to be a travel blogger for the rest of my life. It's so funny looking back at that now. I was like, gosh. Young and naive, but...

Kristin (47:04.334)

This is the thing.

Conni Biesalski (47:26.508)

Yeah, but you know, when I was living the digital nomad lifestyle, I was like, this is it. This is what I want to do for the rest of my life. And so I had an absolutely amazing time and continue to do so. But for me, and I don't think I can speak for anyone else, but I do see many other people. It's it's it's not very sustainable, I think, for many people. And I also think that a lot of and in my case,

to be honest, like this whole thing around freedom and this obsession with freedom and this obsession with being location dependent and traveling the world and being a digital nomad, in my case, it was definitely a trauma response. And so, like I was saying earlier, like there's reasons as to why I was drawn to this lifestyle to be constantly basically in flight mode. I was constantly fleeing and I was, yeah, just.

Kristin (48:08.91)

Hmm.

Conni Biesalski (48:25.869)

I think always in a way running away from something that I didn't want to feel. And when things got uncomfortable, I would go somewhere else. And so, for me and I eventually had to come to terms with the fact that interesting Conni, you created a lifestyle for yourself. That's actually a response to trauma that you experienced. And for some people, and I have met other people who are sort of in a similar boat. And, and I think.

There are quite a lot of people out there who embrace the digital nomad lifestyle as a trauma response. But I think it's the same for everyone. And I think what I eventually got and what I'm so grateful for, and I wish I'd had that earlier, but was meeting my now partner because we were then able to travel together for a couple of years and live in different places. And that was a whole different experience being in...

a committed relationship in a stable and healthy relationship compared to being always on my own, always making decisions on my own, feeling lonely a lot and just really struggling. And so I'm not saying like this is going to be my life forever right here, right now, although it might be because we're really happy in Portugal. But I do think like for now, for example, I'm really enjoying this.

stable life, this kind of in quotation marks, boring life, this it's a very slow life that we're living. Like it's very uneventful, really. I mean, it's a beautiful place where we live and, you know, there's beaches out there and surfing and and for now, this is perfect. Like that's what my nervous system and my body needs. And maybe there might be a time again, you know, maybe next year, maybe in five years where I feel like, I'd.

like to travel more again. Like currently we're not traveling that much. Like I haven't been outside of Europe in the last, yes, since I think since Sri Lanka, since 2022, beginning of 2022. And we haven't really traveled that much within Europe. And if when we, if, yeah, I think.

Conni Biesalski (50:42.541)

only to like, I don't know, meet my family in the Canary Islands for like a week of all inclusive hotels, like things like that, you know, like stuff that I guess normal people do. And and so my life has been in that regard, quite uneventful. But, you know, this it might change. I have no idea. I'm just kind of going with what's here right now. And but, yeah, I think it's an interesting.

inquiry to explore as to I think for other digital nomads to see as to why am I so drawn to this lifestyle and what am I maybe compensating for or not to say that everyone has deeper issues in that regard, but it could still be an interesting inquiry. Yeah.

Kristin (51:37.582)

God. Yeah. When you said that this obsession to this obsession with freedom is like a flight mode response where you create a life for yourself that is a response to trauma, that really hit me hard because we don't like we don't look at travel as an escape, even though that's that's what it is. Like travel has become.

put on this pedestal of like the holy grail of life. And it is in some way, it is the ultimate form of freedom. And enacting that right to freedom is like, it's a main goal of life for so many people. And for me as well, for so many years, I remember sitting with an enlightened master from Malaysia when I was in Sweden one year at a retreat.

And he looked across the room to me and he said something like, you need to explore this trauma that you have. Like, he just looked at me in the eye and said this and he didn't know anything about me and my travel lifestyle. And that was probably 2015, I think. And that's when I found out about trauma therapy and Somatic Experiencing. I didn't even know that I had trauma.

Conni Biesalski (52:47.853)

Wow.

Kristin (53:04.974)

I just thought, I'm living this jet setter lifestyle and everything's great. I'm making six figures and I travel the world full time. But, you know, and I still am able to integrate travel with my lifestyle, but I've been so much more aware of when I'm using travel as a vacation or as a tool or as part of my work.

Conni Biesalski (53:05.037)

Yeah, same. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin (53:30.798)

or as research or as a form of connection or a form of having fun. Like there's so many different ways that you can use everything. Like you can exercise every day because it's part of your routine and you walk for an hour a day, or you can exercise in a way that's unhealthy that you're working out multiple times per day and you're working out as a way to exhaust yourself. So, I mean, this is something I think it's a lifelong thing for me, but I've also,

Conni Biesalski (53:50.093)

Yeah.

Harley.

Kristin (54:00.654)

like gone back and forth with like having a home base and settling down versus traveling. And it seems like you found that balance now with Portugal. And I want to ask you a bit more about your lifestyle in Portugal. But first, I was wondering if you can share with us a little bit about how is the nervous system response like when you're in flight mode or travel mode versus.

a stability mode. I think you used a term that I wrote down. I don't know where it is, but there's like, yeah, there's like different modes that your nervous system can be in. So can you kind of just explain how that's different when you're traveling versus when you're stable?

Conni Biesalski (54:43.501)

Right.

Right. Yeah, for sure. So basically we have our sympathetic nervous system and our parasympathetic nervous system. And to be just very general, but the sympathetic branch, right? It's our like, it's our mobilization mode or activation mode, creating energy in our bodies, fight or flight mode. And our parasympathetic nervous system is really more about, you know, rest and digest, relaxation. It can also be.

parts of it can also be shut down and depression and withdrawal when it's like overly activated. And so I was essentially pendulating between like being in shutdown and depression. And on the other hand, being full on stress mode, anxiety, full on activation, and not very much in between and not a whole lot of parasympathetic rest and digest mode. And so,

when I was traveling so much and I mean, just thinking about it now, like packing up and getting on a flight and arriving in a new place and, you know, settling into a new Airbnb or whatever, and then meeting new people all the time, like it's stressful. Let's be honest. Like, yeah, constantly being in a new environment is actually not something that our nervous system appreciates very much because it causes stress and.

even though at the time I would say that was positive stress, I don't think I felt myself very much. I don't think I was very connected to my body at the time that I could have even sensed anything. And so what our nervous system really enjoys and really needs for optimal health is familiarity. And it likes being in familiar places. It likes routines. And because that...

Conni Biesalski (56:40.333)

it helps us to be in a more parasympathetic state where our systems can actually recover and recharge and heal. And for that reason, I think it took me so long to heal my digestive issues because to heal, we need to be in a parasympathetic state. When you're constantly in sympathetic fight or flight mode, it's really hard for our bodies to heal itself. And so,

you know, living a more stable life now, having a home base just allows me to be more in a parasympathetic state. I have pretty set routines and especially as because when you have a dog, you need routines. And we decided to live in a smaller town. So we live just north of Lisbon, a little surf community here. And it's a slow life here. And the days, they look very similar. And...

I don't have to meet new people all the time. Like we actually have a bit of a small community here, just a few people that we really appreciate spending time with. I go out for walks a lot with my, with our dog and I, I'm way more creative and productive actually in a way as well. And so yeah, my body is just able to really,

recharge when it needs to and it doesn't have to constantly adjust to new environments, new people and whatnot. And so I think that in itself is huge. And I really, really underestimated that for the longest time. But I think one of the reasons was I just, I was so disconnected from myself. I just, I have no idea how to even sense stress in my body at the time, you know.

Kristin (58:30.35)

Yeah, and every time things get hard, like leaving becomes a really easy way to change things up. And we think that it's positive, but it can actually be negative. And I've heard other digital nomads talking about this. I actually overheard a conversation when I was in Tulum, Mexico, the most cliche place to hear this conversation. And it was like a woman talking to...

another guy who ended up coming on my podcast and she was saying, yeah, everything, every time things get difficult for me in my nomadic life, I just move. She's like, I don't stay and I don't process it and I don't heal or figure out what is the cause of this anxiety or this feeling. I just go to the next location. And she was probably in her, I would say like mid forties, mid to late forties, and she'd been doing this for a while. So.

I definitely don't think that you or I are alone in this. And when you think...

Conni Biesalski (59:31.661)

No, I think many people struggle with it. Yeah.

Kristin (59:36.622)

Yeah, when you think back to you started traveling at 18, like by yourself internationally, and I started traveling also as a teenager, it can take a long time to come to this realization. So I hope that this message is reaching people that might be earlier in their journeys, whether they're in their early twenties or whether they, I mean, I just got off the phone with someone who was traveling as a teenager and 20 something, but then when he got married,

had kids, it was like, he said it was from 1986 since he last traveled. And now, you know, he wanted to travel again. So a lot of people had to wait and like kind of put their travel plans on hold and might be entering into this now. But it's like just, just being aware that this is a thing so that when it happens or if it happens, you, you know, and it might be that, you know, people travel.

Conni Biesalski (01:00:11.917)

Hmm.

Well.

Kristin (01:00:32.014)

burning the candle at both ends for seven or eight years before they start to feel burnt out. For other people, it might be like a year or six months and they're like, okay, wait, I need to slow down. But yeah, it could take a long time for some people. So was it when you were, go ahead.

Conni Biesalski (01:00:39.789)

Yeah. Yeah.

Conni Biesalski (01:00:47.533)

Well, I think I wanted to just add one thing that just occurred to me also, I think. So something that I think could be worthwhile to inquire into for people who are constantly on the go is especially those that say that they have a really hard time staying in one place for longer. And I was one of those people I would, you know, I would say that I don't want to stay in a place longer than, you know, a few months. And I remember actually having.

therapy session around that. And my therapist was challenging me to stay in a place for six months or so. And I think I said at the time, I was like, I don't think I can do that. Like it's, it would make me really anxious and depressed essentially, which was actually a really clear sign that something was off here, right? Like I needed to be on the go to somehow feel okay. But the idea of staying in a place for longer than a few months was

terrifying for me. And I think that in itself, you know, looking back, I think was a symptom of a trauma response there. And I think, you know, if people notice that within themselves, they're like so, like opposed, vehemently opposed to the idea of staying in a place for longer than a few months, then could be interesting to look into what might be hiding underneath that. Yeah.

Kristin (01:01:52.782)

huh.

Kristin (01:02:12.974)

Yeah, definitely. It's not just that you want another stamp in your passport. It's yeah. I mean, the pandemic was the first time that I signed a lease that was a year since I was probably, I think living in Costa Rica and probably the mid 2000s. The last time I had a long -term lease that ended was January of 2013. So it had been about almost

Conni Biesalski (01:02:17.485)

Nah. Yeah.

Kristin (01:02:42.638)

eight years, 10 years that I'd had a one year lease somewhere. And that felt like a big commitment. But then after I did that in Miami, I realized how much I needed to slow down. I mean, the pandemic for me was like a godsend for my personal life because I didn't realize how burnt out I was until that. And that totally changed like the whole trajectory of my life. And now I am doing six months in each place. Like I have five month lease now and

Conni Biesalski (01:02:44.429)

Mm -hmm.

Conni Biesalski (01:02:56.461)

Mm -hmm.

Conni Biesalski (01:03:00.333)

This is right.

Kristin (01:03:11.854)

Miami, I was in the UK for six months in Manchester last year. And now anything less than six months to me feels like it's too fast.

Conni Biesalski (01:03:17.485)

Mmm.

Conni Biesalski (01:03:21.517)

Right. Yeah. And I think that's healthy. Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin (01:03:24.27)

Yeah. And I do get sad even like yesterday was I got a message from a friend in Manchester and he was just checking in on me and I realized in my photos and in my journal that one year ago, yesterday, I was at a barbecue with him and his friends. And it was kind of like bittersweet because I was like, you know, how's the weather? And I kind of wish that I could be at a barbecue again in Manchester this summer with my friends and.

Conni Biesalski (01:03:47.245)

Hmm.

Kristin (01:03:54.798)

And yeah, so it's like travel gives you these friendships. Travel giveth, travel taketh away. You move around, but were you in, where were you when you and your partner, what's her name as well? Christine, okay. Where were you guys when you thought like, let's move somewhere, let's settle down?

Conni Biesalski (01:04:00.845)

Yeah, I like that. Yeah, so true. Yeah.

Conni Biesalski (01:04:11.629)

Christine is her name. Yeah.

Kristin (01:04:19.15)

You mentioned that she's also from Germany. Like, was she working remotely because you guys were in Sri Lanka? And how did you end up landing in Portugal?

Conni Biesalski (01:04:19.693)

Right.

Conni Biesalski (01:04:25.357)

Yeah.

Yeah. So Christine's, she's also a breathwork facilitator and she's like the OG in Germany. Like she's been a breathwork facilitator since like, I don't know, 2012. So I think I don't think I was able to even spell breathwork at the time. And so because of the pandemic, she, I mean, before she was only working offline in person with people.

all over Germany. And then because of the pandemic, she also shifted her business to online and suddenly breathwork online was a thing. And so she was somewhat like she was also working in person again at some point, but she was mainly, I guess, location dependent and she didn't even know it because of the pandemic. And so, yeah, we were able to then just work online when we went off traveling to Sri Lanka and some other places in Europe and.

We well, I knew I wanted to find a home base and she knew she wanted to also move away from Hamburg because she'd been living there for many years and she was traveling a lot as well. And so I guess we really met at the right time. And so we knew we wanted to find a place to sort of call home, but we didn't really know where yet. And when we were in Sri Lanka, we really loved it there, but it didn't feel quite right because as the same sex couple,

and homosexuality still being illegal in Sri Lanka, even though it's very much tolerated and we never had any issues, and everybody was really friendly with us, but it just didn't feel quite right. And so we eventually, we spent about eight months there during the pandemic and loved it and had good friends there. But then we left, came back to Europe and then we knew, okay, so let's just shop around a little bit. And I knew,

Conni Biesalski (01:06:22.701)

I mean, we were kind of talking about the Mediterranean, but then I was like, you know, I really would like to surf. And so the Mediterranean, there's surf here and there, but I think, yeah. And so that that really the world shrinks, right. As you know, when you surf and so then they really weren't that many options in the end. I mean, really, it was Portugal, maybe Spain and then the Canary Islands.

Kristin (01:06:37.678)

Yeah.

Conni Biesalski (01:06:50.957)

Really those like, because also kids, I appreciate like a warmer climate. So of course there's surf in Norway or something or England, but so, and I had been to Portugal several times, but I think actually at the time we were more leaning towards the Canary islands, but then friends of ours, they were on like a, like a photo shoot job, on.

down south in the Algarve in Portugal and we're renting this like big villa and they invited us. They're like, Hey, do you want to come down and just hang out? We're just having this little shoot here. And so we came down and rented a car and I was like, well, we might as well just look around a bit and see if, you know, maybe, but, Portugal never, you know, all those times that I,

and spent a week here and there over the years, it never occurred to me that it would be a place for me to live. But I don't know, for some reason I was like, hey, maybe we should drive up north and go to Lisbon and go to some other places around there. And so we did. And somehow we came here to Aries -Hara and we're like, huh. And I had been here many times, but somehow it just, it clicked. And I was like, wow.

Why are we not living here? Like it ticks most of our boxes, you know, and the things that we appreciate in a place and what we need. And, and I don't know, the decision was really organic. And then, but it took a few more months. I think we even went back to Sri Lanka for a while and then came back and then, yeah, came here for a month to see what it feels like. And.

It was really easy for us to find a place to live. Not because it's not easy to find a place to live, but it was easy for us because it just, I guess, was meant to be. We were very lucky. And so, and then Tony, our little dog, our puppy came into our lives very organically as well. And so it just sort of happened and it just felt right from the very beginning. And it still does like every day. We're so grateful to...

Conni Biesalski (01:09:08.269)

be able to live here. And we love it even more as time goes on, actually, which is quite fascinating. Yeah.

Kristin (01:09:16.174)

Amazing. I actually had Aricera as the best place to live in Portugal in a video I did a few years ago because I was talking to a lot of people that live there and actually Dave Williams of NOMADX told me, you know, Aries, Sarah, it's a hidden gem. And I talked to a lot of people and ended up ranking that as number one, even though I hadn't been there. So tell us a little bit about your slow life. I know you had did a YouTube video, like why I chose to live a boring life.

Conni Biesalski (01:09:36.845)

Mm. Mm -hmm.

Kristin (01:09:45.742)

quote unquote boring. But I think a lot of people really relate to or the slow life in Portugal really appeals to them at any age.

Conni Biesalski (01:09:46.573)

Right. Yeah, yeah.

Conni Biesalski (01:09:56.077)

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. Well, so for one, it's a smaller town like, you know, many people that come to Portugal, they move to Lisbon or Porto or whatever. And I knew that I didn't want to live in a city like I knew I wanted to live somewhere with like easy access to nature and beaches and stuff like that. And.

so we chose a smaller place and like it is a small town, like there are, there's a bit of infrastructure, which is also something that we appreciate. So there are a couple of nice, cafes and a couple of nice, you know, restaurants that you can go to. And it's within reach of Lisbon. So, you know, we're at the airport in like 30 minutes and we're in downtown Lisbon in like 45, 50 minutes. So.

And that regard is perfect. And in the beginning, we thought, we're going to go to Lisbon a lot and stuff and have like date nights. And I mean, I love Lisbon, but we barely ever go just because we love the slow pace so much more here. And when we do go to Lisbon for the day or to go shopping or whatever, or meet some friends, and then we drive back and then we drive into Arisera, it's just like this. Like,

We always like exhale in the car and like, it's so nice to be back. Like you just, you just feel it in your body, how everything just slows down. And, and so, yeah, it's just a nice little town. It's definitely a bit touristy for sure. more so like it's, it's getting busier now that it's June, July, August are definitely the busier month, but not just international tourists, just a lot of Portuguese tourists actually as well. And.

It's a surf destination, so there's amazing beaches around here. I'm out on one of them daily just because our dog is a beach dog and loves swimming. So I'm out in nature a lot every day. And we live about, I don't know, 50 meters from a beach. And so just being outside a lot is something that I really appreciate and being out in nature. And...

Conni Biesalski (01:12:07.437)

And yeah, just having a very, I guess, boring life in the sense that it's every day is very similar. So there's just not a whole lot like going out, going on that's out of the ordinary. And we cook a lot at home. We mainly eat at home, actually. Like sometimes we go out every once in a while, but we mainly eat at home. We, like I said, go on these long walks every day with our dog. We're out on the beach a lot. I'm...

I've been injured a fair bit actually since we've been here. So I haven't been surfing as much as I would have liked to, but I'm just about to get back into it. And so that's something that I just love is to be on the board and have no access to my phone or my computer or anything and just be in the water. And we have a car, but really like...

If you live somewhere near town, like you can walk everywhere and we have like an electric bicycle that I use and everything's just for us, it's perfect. Like we would actually like to eventually move inland a bit more, like five or 10 minutes more inland and actually maybe have a backyard and maybe get even a second dog or something. But to actually slow it down even more, because there's like we still live on a street where there's like cars passing by and stuff. So.

while it's like we're really happy, for now, but we could slow it down even more, I think. but yeah, it's, we, we don't go partying. Like I feel like I'm kind of over my partying stage. Like I partied a lot in my life. I just, yeah, I feel like, that's something I don't need anymore gladly. And yeah, we know, you know, we have, like, we know.

a lot of people here just because it's a small town and eventually you meet the same people over and over again, especially when you have a dog. But yeah, we have a few people that we hang out with and just, yeah, go to bed early, get up early, like, you know, just like the regular people do.

Kristin (01:14:15.822)

Sounds like a dream. And I can also relate to having lived on a lot of beaches and touristy areas. I told my sister this week, I was like, I think I want to buy a house somewhere, like in the mountains or in the countryside, like where it's really quiet with no traffic noise. This is my goal, no traffic noise. So I can relate to that. What is your cost of living there?

Conni Biesalski (01:14:33.933)

Yeah. Yeah.

Conni Biesalski (01:14:46.093)

What's her cost of living? That's a good question. So in terms of rent and I think I don't think like the thing is Portugal has definitely gone up in prices, I would say also during the pandemic and also in the last couple of years since we moved here, just because I think during the pandemic, a lot of people that would have normally gone to Bali or Mexico or whatever, but were stuck in Europe, they came to Portugal.

And so it became this big destination for a lot of Europeans to move to. So that definitely skyrocketed the prices. And then, yeah, I think generally like this area is it's it's quite popular and like real estate prices are definitely out of the ordinary, especially in this area compared to other areas in Portugal, maybe except the Algarve. I think the Algarve tops it.

And the house that we live in, it's like one of those row houses, close to the beach, and it's three stories. And so it's quite spacious. And like, for example, I have my own office, my wife has her office, and like we have plenty of space. And we, I think we pay, I think we started out at 1600 euros cold.

So like, and then maybe now it's almost close to 1700, maybe 1680 or something plus like electricity, water, gas and internet, which is, I guess at the time when we found it two years ago, it was more on the more expensive side, but I think now it's actually more on the cheaper side. So prices are really changing around here. And...

Kristin (01:16:36.238)

Mm -hmm.

Conni Biesalski (01:16:42.797)

We just extended our lease for another two years because we just aren't ready yet to buy and just didn't have the capacity to even look into the process of purchasing a house. And so we just extended our lease for another two years and they're going to keep raising the rent every year, basically. So eventually it will definitely make sense for us to buy if we decide to stay here. And besides that,

I mean, what else is there like groceries and stuff like that or going out for food? I don't know. I have no idea, to be honest. It's I think it's I stopped looking at supermarket receipts when I was living in the States and going to Whole Foods because it was just it was just so depressing. So because I'm like, well, I need the food anyway, so.

Kristin (01:17:14.35)

food.

Kristin (01:17:33.774)

So expensive, yeah.

Conni Biesalski (01:17:40.237)

You know, why get upset about it? So I stopped looking at receipts, but it's it's definitely cheaper than most other European countries for sure. But I think, you know, a lot of people move to Portugal because they think it's so cheap. I would say it is cheaper than many countries still in Europe, but it's it's definitely not as cheap as it used to be.

There's definitely also, as I guess in many places around the world, the issue around rising rents and how that affects the population and the locals here. And that's definitely something that we think about and talk about with the community here. And so I think, as you said, I think it's still for us,

And we didn't move here because it's cheap. Like that wasn't the intention. like I didn't want to move to California because it was cheap, right? Like I wanted to move there because I love the lifestyle and I love the, the area and the surf. And so I guess that's also one thing, cause a lot of people think like, you know, we move here because it's cheap and more affordable. And while that might be the case that it is a bit like, I mean, of course, like living where we live here.

Kristin (01:18:42.478)

Right.

Conni Biesalski (01:19:07.981)

You know, being so close to the beach, it probably is cheaper than what most people pay for an apartment by now in London or Paris or, you know, or even Berlin these days. Right. And so we would have moved here anyway. And they had like when we moved here, they had this this this program still running the NHR program to attract.

people to move here and to get like tax benefits and stuff. And they, in the meantime, they've actually gotten rid of it. And I, we didn't know about that when we moved here. We, yeah, I didn't think about any tax benefits or whatever. That was like a extra bonus when we decided to live here and we heard about it. But they've now since, I don't know if they've fully gotten rid of it, but they've adjusted, I think, the program just because a lot of local.

people and the Portuguese people, they felt like it was a bit unfair because a lot of people here are struggling to find a place to live and like the locals because the prices have gone up so much. And I guess they blame it on the foreigners coming in with all their foreign investment. But I think it's a combination of several things that have just kind of gone wrong. But yeah. So.

Kristin (01:20:33.166)

Yeah.

Conni Biesalski (01:20:37.165)

There we are.

Kristin (01:20:38.542)

Were you able to get grandfathered into that NHR? Yeah. Okay.

Conni Biesalski (01:20:43.053)

Yeah, yeah. So it's like a 10 year program. and once you were in, you were in, but for anyone that's, trying to get it now, I think they have the new rules.

Kristin (01:20:48.206)

Yeah.

Kristin (01:20:53.998)

Yeah, I would agree. I think Portugal, it's not the cheapest place, especially in the last five to 10 years. It's gotten a lot more expensive because of a lot of reasons. You know, that's a whole nother a few hours conversation probably on what happened there. But but it does have that nice lifestyle and it's a moderate cost of living. And I think, you know, well, you get to split your rent with somebody. That's a bonus. And, you know, the food.

Conni Biesalski (01:21:11.533)

Yeah.

Conni Biesalski (01:21:22.157)

Yeah, for sure.

Kristin (01:21:23.438)

I remember, well, even last year, I think I was spending about 100 euro per week on groceries, but that doesn't include going out to eat, but that's half or less than half of what I spend in the US on groceries. So it's a win, especially in California and Miami.

Conni Biesalski (01:21:30.029)

Right. Yeah. Right.

Conni Biesalski (01:21:37.965)

Yeah, yeah, I think that's probably fair. Yeah, no, for sure. yeah, totally. I think altogether, maybe because we also have a car and then we have the dog and things like that. And that all costs money. I think maybe. 2000, like per person, maybe like including rent and like everything and like being really generous in terms of going out to eat.

Kristin (01:22:00.302)

Mm -hmm.

Conni Biesalski (01:22:06.381)

and things like that. And I think you could definitely do it a lot cheaper or for less money. But I think I would that could. Yeah, I think 2000 euros is a good amount, I think, for us anyway.

Kristin (01:22:21.358)

Yeah. And that's for a really comfortable lifestyle with a dog, car, bike, living on the beach. Yeah, really nice.

Conni Biesalski (01:22:28.653)

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, there's not much to spend on though, like for the life that we live, right? Because like we sleep, we eat, we go out for walks. Sometimes we go out to eat and there's gas. Once a year we drive up to Germany. Every once in a while we fly to Germany because we give a workshop or something. But we live a very, I don't want to say modest life, but just...

pretty regular life. There's not much for us to spend money on because we're not that much into material things. I guess in that respect, it is a cheaper life than when I was a digital nomad, actively traveling the world all the time and staying in really expensive Airbnbs and paying a lot of money for flights and events and whatnot. It's definitely more consistent now as well.

Kristin (01:23:20.91)

Yeah, I can see that. I mean, the people in the digital nomad lifestyle, I think a lot of people discount the cost of travel. They don't take it into consideration so much. But my biggest expense before the pandemic on my credit card statements, you know, when you look at your annual, like split of how your money was spent and even what you spend on your credit card is different from.

even your regular living expenses maybe, but it was always travel was the biggest piece of the pie, you know, transportation, rental cars, hotels, Airbnb, things like that. And then during the pandemic that went down a lot. So yeah, when you have this lifestyle where, you know, maybe you're on a nomadic lifestyle and that leads to being a settler somewhere, in this case in Portugal, you can really mitigate that high cost of.

Conni Biesalski (01:23:56.525)

Yeah.

Kristin (01:24:18.894)

travel and have a normal cost of living and then you become an expat, a German expat living in Portugal. And then eventually, do you think that you'll... I mean, I guess you can live there because you're a European anyway, but we'll see what happens in the future if you stay there long -term. I was going to say, do you see yourself becoming citizens there? But then I was like, well, you already...

Conni Biesalski (01:24:23.149)

Mm -hmm.

Conni Biesalski (01:24:38.893)

You just cut out for a moment, but. Yeah.

Kristin (01:24:46.862)

can stay permanently because you're European. Yeah. Yeah.

Conni Biesalski (01:24:47.981)

yeah, because we're Europeans. Yeah. So that that makes it easy. But I actually I started to consider myself as an immigrant rather than an expat, to be honest, just because. I started having an issue with the word expat, like it's almost like this like elite immigrants, basically.

Kristin (01:24:59.246)

Yep.

Kristin (01:25:11.278)

Yeah, actually, I just talked about that in a YouTube video. It was like, what kind of traveler are you? And I break it into sections and I kind of defined expat as just a temporary immigrant. But then an immigrant is actually like a long -term resident somewhere because there is no official definition of what it is, but it has taken on a bit of a kind of like elitist, pretentious.

Conni Biesalski (01:25:16.141)

All right. Yeah.

Conni Biesalski (01:25:25.901)

Right.

Conni Biesalski (01:25:37.229)

True.

Kristin (01:25:41.134)

image by default, which we want to avoid. You know, yeah.

Conni Biesalski (01:25:43.5)

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I'm just like, well, I'm just an immigrant, just like so many other people who...

Kristin (01:25:50.99)

Yeah, well, wow. Thank you so much, Conni, for sharing. I feel like we could talk about this for hours and hours. Can I come visit? But where can people follow you online and even get some information or even healing through you or through Christine? What do you guys offer and how can people learn more?

Conni Biesalski (01:26:13.997)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah. Well, thanks for having me on. This is really awesome to chat. And yeah, so people can connect with me mainly, I guess, on Instagram. I mean, just @Conni.Biesalski is my handle, but then my other account where it's all about breathwork and trauma healing and the nervous system is @breathwork.alchemy. So that's an Instagram and otherwise, yeah, breathworkalchemy.co.

Conni.me is another website. So I'm all over the place. I have a YouTube channel. And yeah, love to connect anytime.

Kristin (01:26:52.43)

Amazing. Well, we'll link to all of that on our website and in the show notes. And yeah, it was so great to talk with you and you're making me reconsider Aricera as a possible destination. So if I come that way, I'll definitely let you know.

Conni Biesalski (01:26:59.213)

Thank you.

Conni Biesalski (01:27:06.989)

Yeah. Yeah, maybe you should. It's a good place. Thank you.

Kristin (01:27:13.866)

Thanks so much. 

Kristin    01:28:52    

Kristin here, I really hope that you got a lot of value out of my conversation with Conni today. You know, I knew she had so much experience traveling and in this lifestyle, but I learned so much from her and it really just brought up so many memories and made me think about the both positive and often sometimes negative impact that a life of long-term travel can help. So whether you are just starting out on your travel journey or you've been traveling for many years, I hope that you found some ideas and insights and resources today to help you in the future. Remember that you can get a free two week trial with BetterHelp Online Talk Therapy by using my refer a Friend link in the show notes. And if you become a paying member, you can also earn a hundred dollars in free credits to connect with Conni. And for all of the resources mentioned in this episode, make sure to check the show notes and also share this episode with any nomads, world travelers or travel enthusiasts who you think it might help. Thanks for spending time with me here today, and I'll see you back again next week.