Living Abroad in Taiwan with Amazon Prime's "Expats International Ingrams"

Sneak Peek:

Juanita:    00:00:00    Especially as Americans. Yeah. We see the world through our lens, and we have to understand the cultural nuances and be respectful of them. When you are in someone else's country, even representing your own opinions about your own country, about things that are affecting you, you still have to be very conscientious.  

Kristin:    00:00:19    Right  

Juanita:    00:00:19    Yeah. And, and I think it's a matter of cultural competence. I think you have to just have to really immerse yourself and immerse yourself in that culture so that you become culturally competent to represent your opinions and ideas in a way that translates appropriately in their culture. And so it is, it's a trained skill. It takes some time.  

Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests.

Kristin Wilson, Host:    00:00:57    Hi everyone. Kristin from Traveling with Kristin here. And welcome to episode 128 of Badass Digital Nomads with Juanita Ingram, the producer and mastermind behind the hit Amazon Prime series, The Expats International Ingrams, a documentary series that sheds light on her journey from corporate attorney to stay at home, wife and mom living with her children in foreign countries. I've wanted to have Juanita on the podcast for a really long time. I first discovered her show while researching for my interview with the absolutely lovely and charming Amanda Bates, the Black Expat. And if you haven't listened to that episode yet, then pause this one right now and download it to your device. It's episode 105, you can't miss it. Anyway, I had no idea that an expat show existed, so as soon as I found it, I looked it up, binge watched it, and then reached out to Juanita to have her here with us today.  

Kristin:    00:02:07    Having never been to Taiwan myself, I was so interested to hear from Juanita firsthand and get her to share some behind the scenes stuff about her life there off camera from how she quit her corporate job and the struggles that came along with that to the logistics of finding housing abroad, the cost of living food, and then some tougher topics like trailing spouse depression that almost no one talks about. We also pull up the curtain on what it's like to live inside the expat bubble in places like Singapore, Taiwan, and London. And I also asked her about any local concerns over a possible impending invasion of Taiwan by China, which is something that many of you brought up in the comments of my YouTube video on the Best Places to Live Abroad in the World, which I'll link to in the show notes. Enjoy. Thank you so much, Juanita, for coming on the show today.  

Kristin:    00:03:13    I was just thinking before we started, like I'm like gonna get emotional already. It is so inspiring to me that we are having this conversation because I just think about you on the other side of the world in Taiwan, and I am in Miami, and your sharing your experience of living abroad over there. And the only reason I know about you is because you were confident enough to create a TV show to document your family's life abroad. And I just wanted to thank you first off, for making your show without which we would've never heard of you.   

Juanita:    00:03:52    Right. Well, thank you so much for, for that. And thank you for the platform that you're building to encourage women and inspire women and and thank you for that encouragement because it, it was a lot to create. I actually had the vision for the show about six years ago while, while we were living in London. So this is our, uh, second international assignment. We're getting ready next month. We moved to Singapore for a third international assignment.

Kristin: Oh, wow.

Juanita:  And um, when I was living in London, I had the vision for the show. It came to me and I just never knew whether or not I would ever be able to pull it off. I tried to pitch to certain networks and, and I appreciate you saying that, the confidence to do it, because sometimes people don't see the relevance in what you're doing, especially when it's never been done because there's never been a show about living abroad. It's like house hunters and stuff. Like that's not living, that's just going to find a house, but they don't really show you, they show you like three seconds. Like now they're in this house and life is great. And that's not how <laugh> that's not how it goes itself.

Kristin:    00:04:56     Yeah. It's like happily ever after they signed the contract, they moved in and then you never hear from them again. <laugh>,  

Juanita:    00:05:02    And you never hear from them again. And you don't know what it's like to live in that place. You know what three houses look like in that location, <laugh>, and, and that's about it. So I just, um, I appreciate you so much for, for saying that because it's, uh, that was my one of three goals with the show was to encourage other people, especially creatives, especially women, not to listen to the nos. And when you have a vision or a passion, whatever the business is, not to let the people that may not get it discourage you when you know you have something that's great and it takes a lot of guts to be bold enough to not only create it, but then to push it out there and say, you know what? I wanna encourage other people and women and kids and children and all of that, and I'm just going to just do it. It's, it's, um, it is strange to be on the show <laugh> for people to, to re I don't know what I thought. Like why didn't, I think people, of course people will recognize me, but I'm still like, oh, you watched it, you know, <laugh>. Yeah,  

Kristin:    00:06:07    <laugh>. Yeah. And, and being like a normal American family. I mean, coming from Tennessee and Alabama and living in, in Indiana and then living abroad and just showing people that it can be done. You can survive to tell the tale. So tell pe everybody who hasn't heard of your show yet, and we'll have all the links to everything in the show notes, but who are the Expats International Ingram  

Juanita:    00:06:34    <laugh> Yeah, so the show is on Amazon Prime. We're actually getting ready to launch on, uh, another channel called Genre TV on Roku. And I'm launching today in about an hour, my own streaming platform that it'll be available there because it's on Amazon Prime in the US and UK. But I have a lot of people, a lot of expats all over the world. They're like, I don't have Amazon Prime US and UK <laugh>. So, but this show is about my family, my husband, we've been married for 16 years. My two kids, Kinsley and Keenan Junior, we call 'em KJ. And it's our journey along with a wonderful cast of other expats living abroad, Zach, Boy, Jewel, you know, there's so many great people that you get to meet, uh, Zoe that they're on the show because part of this journey is about finding your new extended family, finding tribes, settling in.  

Juanita:    00:07:28    And I didn't wanna just show our journey because we are corporate expats, so my husband's job is the reason why we moved. But there are so many different paths that will lead you to working and living abroad. So some of my friends on the show, uh, came as students and stayed. One of them came as a tourist, Jewel just came for a holiday just to take a break from being a nurse for like, she thought she was gonna just, I'll go, you know, travel around, I'll go hang out in Taiwan for three weeks. And she was here for Willow almost two years. And <laugh>

Kristin: Typical.

Juanita: Zach is typical, you know, Zach is here. He is actually a really famous actor in China. Um, but he's here, living in Taiwan because of the pandemic. He's back and forth, but he's from, um, Nebraska, you know, <laugh>.  

Juanita:    00:08:15    So it's like different paths. Um, Toi was a Chinese major, came for university to go to school here, and she's been here for I don't know how many years. And Zoe is the same, you know, teacher, came to teach English. And so I wanted to show the different paths of becoming an expat, um, what that life looks like, what their experiences were like, because our experience coming over on a corporate package is gonna look very different than their experience. And it's so diverse and not at all what people think or expect. Like I think people think expats are like on this perpetual vacation, like, we're living abroad and we're just traveling and that is part of it too. But we're living, so, you know, kids go to school, you go to the doctor, you get sick, things happen and life goes on and you just do it in a foreign place and you try to navigate a new language as best as you can and new cultures.  

Juanita:    00:09:14    Um, but there's such commonality, I think, in dealing with change. I think that was the relatable sort of universal experience. And you could be a trailing spouse domestically. You don't have to move abroad. You know, I, the first time I was a trailing spouse, I am from Chattanooga, Tennessee, and my husband's from Alabama. And the first time I was a chairman spouse was when I, when I quit my first legal job. So I'm a, an attorney by, by trade, by practice, by license. And I was licensed in Tennessee. I just passed the bar and I met this man and the things you do for love, you know, <laugh> and I moved to Indianapolis and had to take the bar exam all over again. <laugh>. Now, after 16 years of marriage, that's never gonna happen. You know, you only get one of those, uh, that's new. Love that let you do that. Yeah. 

Kristin:    00:09:58    That's commitment.  

Juanita:    00:10:00    But yes, it is. But that, that's the, the show is about really life abroad through our lens. The lens of the other cast members and what it's like to live abroad is very traumatic. You know, it's, nothing is simple when you think about even just trying to figure out where to go and buy soap or getting your kids into school and it's in a international setting and it's just, you know, a lot of challenges, which I think people can relate to. And then what a year we chose to do it. Oh yeah. Then comes Covid.  

Kristin:    00:10:33    <laugh>. Yeah.   

Juanita:    00:10:34   So it was, it's been a, it is been a journey, but that's the show and people can, can follow it and watch it and, and hopefully in their area, they'll find an outlet that they can, that they can see it on. We worked really hard the last couple of months trying to find and broaden our distribution. 'cause we had so many people, I did not expect it to take off like this. Like when we hit over 2.3 million streams and it had been a month, I didn't expect that. Wow.  

Kristin:    00:11:00    So, wow.  

Juanita:    00:11:01    Yeah. It's, it's been a blessing.  

Kristin:    00:11:03    It is so interesting how things come full circle because as you were talking, I was just thinking about my background, living abroad, studying abroad in college in Australia, studying international human resources and learning how to relocate expat families as a 20 year old, living in Australia and not having the faintest idea that so many decades later I would be having this podcast to share all of the different routes of not just becoming an expat, or not just becoming a digital nomad, but just living life on your own terms. And then here you are creating a show to also portray all of the different people and backgrounds and ages and personalities and career paths and citizenships that, that come into this lifestyle of living abroad and really making it more accessible to people. And I also had very similar experiences pitching shows to multiple networks producers.  

Kristin:    00:12:06    It's been like this whole thing over the course of my life, I was almost on a lot of TV shows. I was almost on an MTV reality show called Surf Girls. I was on House Hunters International. I had reality producers wanting me to do a show about, I used to relocate poker players to other countries. And it never panned out. And never did it really occur to me that I could create my own show because I knew the demand would be there. I just didn't have the skillset to do it. And so my roundabout way of doing it was to go to YouTube. I was just like, screw these people. They don't get it. I'm gonna do my own thing. I'm creating a brand called Traveling with Kristin. I'm gonna do things my own way. And I just started from a GoPro 

Kristin:    00:12:50   And, you know, we'll see what happens. It's been a few years now, but, um, my filmmaking skills are getting better. And I actually shot my own TV show that is similar to the format of House Hunters, but about relocating people and just meeting you and talking to you is giving me the inspiration to finish it. Because I was like, I don't even know how to edit a TV show and blah, blah, blah. You know? So it's so great to hear that you, that you did this and you're doing it, and now everybody else will just accept that and be like, wow, this was a good idea.   

Juanita:    00:13:24    Yeah, Well, thank you. And you should finish it. You should do it. And I started out, you know, it's, it's interesting. Your skill set grows and then also your your network of people that you know, that have the expertise and the skill sets will grow. And, you know, you don't have to be a jack of all trades. I co-edited this show with one of my former production partners. This was the first time that we had edited, ever edited a full television show. So I started out actually acting is where I should back all the way up. I started out acting when I was younger. My mom is, um, a creative, she's a musician. She taught school music for 23, 30--32 years. I grew up playing five instruments in, in theater, but then I just started adulting. And so <laugh>, you know, I knew that I always wanted to,  

Kristin:    00:14:13    The fun stops <laugh>,  

Juanita:    00:14:15    The fun stops. You start paying bills. Um, and you know, you're like, okay, let's pick a major that'll pay those bills. And so I, I, you know, I picked, my undergrad was in accounting and I did a JD, MBA. So I've always been, I'm, I'm a finisher. What I've come to realize, my life coach has helped me to accept and embrace and fully walk in is the fact that I am a finisher. And it is okay to find people that will help you along the way. You don't have to try to do it all on your own, but that is budget dependent. And so what I did was knowing that I had this vision for the show, and then, and people, people think that this is something that like, just came to me. I'm very quick to tell. I thought of this show six years ago.  

Kristin:    00:14:56    What was it? Was it like a day that something went very wrong? Or what was that moment when it hit you?  

Juanita:    00:15:03    It was a day that, that things were really beautiful. Oh. Um, and, and it was, uh, so I had, I was a, an attorney at the time. And when I moved to London, I had to stop practicing the traditional way of law. So I was in-house counsel for Rose Royce at the time, and I quit my job. Um, so we could move to London. I didn't wanna become a barrister and I didn't, 'cause I was at that point, you know, the of love at worn Off. I'm just like, I'm not getting greek. I'm not taking--

Kristin:    00:15:30    You already took two bars. My sister took two  

Juanita:    00:15:33    Exam. Right. I'm like, so this just means I need to do something else. I need to, there's a book out called Everything You Could Do With a Law Degree. So I just started flipping pages. But what really, what really triggered me is that I started back acting, huh. And, um, I went back to my first love. I started writing books. I became an author. I had like a seven part children series. All these things were inside of me. I just hadn't had time to let them pour out. And I talk women a lot about seasons. 'cause oftentimes we think that we had to do everything at once, or we'll see a multihyphenate like myself. And then you'll feel encouraged. But yet also like, dang, how is she doing all that? And she has two kids. And how is this, this, what you're seeing right now for me is a culmination of almost nine, 10 years.  

Juanita:    00:16:20    And in different seasons I did different things and slowly built to this. So when I first moved to London, I did not know that I was experiencing trailing spouse syndrome or trailing spouse depression. I didn't even know that that was a thing, honestly, until I started doing research for the show and real, 'cause I had heard the term trailing spouse. I did not know that you could, like, that's a real diagnosis. I read about it and as I was reading it, I was like, oh my God. That's what that was. That was me. Like the first four months I moved to London, I sat on the couch every day and cried for four months straight and had no idea that I was depressed or sad or that I needed to process like your spouse, when you're, when you're a trailing spouse, when you go for your husband's job or spouse's job, sometimes depending on where you were in life, what, what shifted.  

Juanita:    00:17:10    You're dealing with the change. And that's what I mean about this universal shift and change. And I think it's so relevant with everything that we're going through right now, everybody's going through change, what we don't give ourselves permission to do is mourn. We don't think that we need to mourn, but sometimes you need to mourn what you thought was going to be what you even wanted. Not that you're unhappy with. What is, because I, you know, leaving, it was our choice. I was thrilled with many aspects of living abroad. London is still my favorite place. It turned out to be the best experience of my entire life. But in those first couple of months of dealing with change and transition, identity, purpose shift, you know, nobody goes to law school, passes the bar studies and does all that. 'cause they don't want to be a lawyer.  

Juanita:    00:17:58    I love being an attorney. I'm still an attorney. I, I'm still licensed. You know, I still take my CLEs every year. What I had to realize, I'm always gonna be a lawyer. Even if I do something else with my law degree. I had not done the research to see what other lawyers were doing. Sometimes it really helps to see somebody else thrive and, and through a transition. That's part of the reason why I made the show. Because when you see it and you can relate to it, it helps you to know one, what you're feeling is normal. It is, it's normal to say I wanted to be a judge. That was my career aspiration. I was being groomed for the federal bench in that moment. I had to realize and own that I was not going to be a judge in 10 years. That was my goal.  

Juanita:    00:18:43    My first, after 10 years of practice to be a judge, I was not going to be a judge. Now maybe I'll have a judge show, you know, but I'm not gonna be a judge, judge, judge. Juanita, <laugh>, judge Juanita, you know, it may happen. But I had to mourn the destination that I thought I was going to be on. And I wasn't giving myself permission to do that. So once I started doing that, and then you could fully accept where you are. And one day when I got up off the couch, oh, did I get up <laugh>, you know, and I, I decided, I think I wanna act. Let me go dust off some monologues, see what I could do and see if I can go and get signed. And I got signed to an agency in London. I got my first break for an independent feature film there after.  

Juanita:    00:19:29    And then, because I like to be transparent to people after 32 auditions and, and almost 29 nos, then I got my first break. 'cause I want people to know, like, it didn't just like happen over night, it just, just a numbers game. Yeah. You just, you you have to, well you just have to go and practice and you have to get rejected. Like every actor gets rejected. You, you have to deal with that. And so, but I got my first break and from that first feature, indie feature film, I got my first nomination for a best actress award from the British Urban Film Festival. And from there I decided, when we were living in London, I decided to just start representing and getting into entertainment law. So I had a couple of reality clients that were in on reality shows, on one of the biggest networks, big shows, very famous people.  

Juanita:    00:20:20    I just so happened to grow up with them. A couple of them I grew up with. Some of them, I just, by word of mouth, they were clients. So I started experiencing the reality world, learning more about the unscripted genre. And when we moved back to the US, you know, I I, one day, going back to where the show came from, we used to do these things called Soul food Sundays, where all the African American people would get together. 'cause being African American and American period in London is still, you know, a culture shock. Yes, they speak English, but it's very different. Um, yes, it's very diverse and there are a whole lot of other people, but sometimes you do miss folks that are like you, that relate to you. So it used to be like 10 families. We would rotate houses and somehow I just connect with everybody.  

Juanita:    00:21:05    Like everybody finds me and I find everybody, I don't know what it is. I could be walking through a mall and the African American person in Singapore is going to find me. I, I just don't know what it is. Um, <laugh>. So we used to rotate houses and one day we were celebrating this couple that were, they were moving back to the US and I'd had these, you know, reality clients and everything. And we were, and we were having a barbecue, like Frankie Beverly May and Beyonce was playing on the lawn and everybody was outside and, and running around. And then I just stopped and I looked around and I'm like, man, this is a really amazing experience. It's a beautiful site to just see us all here. We can be anywhere right now. And I looked up and there was Windsor Castle, like right there in the background.  

Juanita:    00:21:51    'cause they were, we lived in Windsor and Ascott and the, the castle was right there. And I just looked at the scene and I kind of did <laugh> this. And, and I was like, nobody's ever shown this in particular, being conscientious, I will admit and be honest and transparent, being conscientious of the imagery and narratives that are put forth in a particular genre for black people. And it became increasingly important to me as a black woman, that we don't often see positive images of us in international settings. I had never seen it. And so, you know, when you look at the relocation world or you look at the expat world, it's very white sometimes.  

Kristin:    00:22:37    it's white men.

Juanita: It is, yeah

Kristin: and sometimes their families  

Juanita:    00:22:40    And sometimes their families and tag along. There aren't a lot of female leaders that get these type of assignments. And in that moment, the couple that we were celebrating, the wife was the leading spouse. And in that couple of of 10 families that were there, four of them were black women that led their families there. The men were trailing spouses that had never been seen.  

Kristin:    00:23:05    That is rare.  

Juanita:    00:23:06    It is rare. It was 10 families, all black. Everybody was a vice president, you know, a director, a senior director. And I just hadn't seen that many successful executive black people in an international setting with these beautiful bilingual children running around that were experiencing amazing things in life. You just don't see it.  

Kristin:    00:23:29    There's absolutely no representation of that in the media whatsoever.  

Juanita:    00:23:35    None. None whatsoever. So I think as a storyteller, even as an actress, you always want the roles that have never been done. Even though most scripted tv, you know, every story has been told, it just gets repackaged. This time I honestly felt like I was scratched my mouth. I was like, I've never seen this. And I started doing research and then the more I studied the genre of unscripted TV and reality tv, what they often did recycle were storylines. Uh, especially as it related to black people that were extremely negative. Not that. And and that's almost universal <laugh>, regardless of color. But especially when you're sort of, you're, you're, you're a marginalized person or a group and your narrative is rarely shown. And then for, we're not a monolith, you know, we're, we're very diverse people, but for the same storyline to be recycled all the time.  

Juanita:    00:24:30    Every black woman is angry. Everybody's fighting. Everybody. Every marriage is unhappy. You know, all the men, all the black men are either shiftless and they can't keep a job. They're unfaithful, they're not leading. Their wives are the ones that are leading. They can't, you know, this is the same story over and over. And again, I won't name any shows, but that's what they put forward. Now that's not to say that that doesn't exist. That's not, but that's not all that exists within a particular group. But if that's all that you show, then where does the inspiration for our youth come from? Because not everybody's gonna be a rapper or a basketball player.  

Kristin:    00:25:05    Right. And it's so cliche to be like, these are the jobs you can have  

Juanita:    00:25:09    <laugh>. This is the only way that you can be successful. This is the only way you know, black women, that you could find a man in this particular area or this particular field of work and you're ever going to be cared for or live comfortably or, you know, be successful. This is the only path. And so we are not a monolith, you know, we're very diverse. And I just, the international business world, international teaching world, just living abroad, period, digital nomad world is not as prevalent amongst African Americans, amongst black people or Africans living in the diaspora, meaning just black people all abroad. It's not. And I wanted to show that break stereotypes really place us. And, and here's the thing. Reality TV is powerful. It is probably the biggest growing genre within entertainment. It has taken over everything. I mean, I know people that don't even watch cable anymore. Everybody watches reality tv. And it shapes the way you're handled. So that one experience of looking up and seeing this beautiful, you know, diverse group of people that were leading and, and thriving and just being and wanted to normalize us just being  

Kristin:    00:26:28    Just existing. And I love that you control the narrative. Like you didn't go out and I mean, even if you pitched it to people, it didn't work out. You end up creating your own production company and then you get to actually represent the reality of it. Which is when I went on House Hunters International, because I wanted to show the reality of what it's like to buy houses in other countries. When I watched the episode I was on, I was so disappointed because they were using B-roll from other places. It was not at all the way that we filmed it. And I just thought it's yeah, that I, I lost the creative direction. I appeared on the show, but I didn't have that influence. And so you, it probably worked out for the best that people didn't get it and said no, because now you get to produce it and show the real thing and set the standard for other shows that might follow.  

Juanita:    00:27:17    Yeah. And keep it authentic. I think the reason why it took off, you know, and I'm a member of the television academy and so I, I'm actually next week they've asked me to sit on a focus group, uh, for immersion talent, but a focus group on diversity and inclusion. And the show is actually on the ballot right now for the Emmys. So preferably we'll get a nomination. But it is rare that a self-published, self-funded show, 'cause we don't have the backing of a network. And these things are very, I mean the marketing packages, you know, it is what it is. But we we're on there and the television Academy looked at it and vetted it and was like, no, this is, this is a good show in terms of quality and our right to be there amongst the other contenders. But the narrative oftentimes the reason why some people just said no, they didn't know what to do with it.  

Juanita:    00:28:06    First. They were like, oh, it's a travel show. And I'm like, no, it's not. And what's so crazy is I could put on the pitch packet, this is not a travel show. It was a first thing. It's people don't even read. The crazy part is people, I'm like, so that that whole sentence there on the top in bold and said, this is not a travel show. You're just gonna ignore that. It was let me know that they weren't, when they see they have a particular formula and the reason why they stick to a formula in Hollywood is because it sells. But the only reason why it sells is because you don't give people any other options. So it is a, a weird cycle that they have in their mind. But, but the thing is fear, right? So you greenlight something and maybe it flops, that's your job. So they only wanna continue to greenlight the things that they know work, but the only thing that they know works is what they've only shown. And so there's no creativity, there's nothing new. That's why people get so turned off on some certain reality shows. They're like, I already know what's gonna happen this season. You know, somebody's gonna get mad about what somebody said about their wig. Or somebody's gonna have a charity event and the champagne's gonna be dry and then they're gonna fight.  

Kristin:    00:29:11    Right? It's like the Real Housewives or that wag show wives and girlfriends of professional athletes. It's just type casting women especially in a certain way. And then the people that have the power at these networks don't really have a, a familiarity with the expat lifestyle. A lot of people don't even know what an expat is, let alone all of the, the legitimate drama that goes on in when you move to another country. And this is more relevant than ever after the pandemic. So it's interesting that you had the idea before. I think the pandemic has accelerated, obviously the shift towards remote work and all of these possibly millions more people are going to be living outside of their home countries very, very soon. And none of them are prepared for the pitfalls that are going to inevitably come from living in another country. Even your family, your husband, what, what is his job?  

Juanita:    00:30:06    At the time he was working, he was a, uh, the general manager here for a pharmaceutical company. So he was the president of the Taiwan affiliate for a pharmaceutical company at the time. He has a new role now actually that's taking us to Singapore with a different company.  

Kristin:    00:30:20    So just so listeners know, 'cause I've actually used your family as a stereotype and some of my talks, um, not your specific family, but your experience of the traditional route of becoming an expat, which is the husband or the wife gets a job, uh, usually at a C-suite executive, they get a relocation package where they might even earn more money or get all of their expenses covered, get housing allowances, get a bonus, have all of their, their personal home goods shipped over. Yeah. Um, assistance with housing, integration, documentation, things like that. Even with your company, your family's relocation package. I don't know what the cross-cultural training or the mental health support, I don't know what they were giving you. Obviously not enough. 'cause most companies don't give enough. Even with that, you found yourself suffering from trailing spouse syndrome, which I'll explain in a second to the, uh, listeners who don't know 

Kristin:    00:31:21    imagine what people who don't have any support feel. And, and this is what you're now showing on your show with people that were teachers and that, you know, didn't have that six figure relocation, uh, package. And that's something that I've talked about, I think in 2019 was the last time I did a talk about it. 'cause it was before the pandemic. But I was just saying that self-employed people need to be prepared for these things that cause executive expats to fail and their families. And the number one cause of that is the inability to adjust to the new destination. Frequently the kids and the spouse also, because of what you said earlier, uh, well first kids don't like moving anyway because they don't wanna leave their friends. They don't wanna leave their comfort zone. They usually like it once they get there. But the kids are resistant or they have, um, challenges with their international schooling.  

Kristin:    00:32:15    The spouse usually has to give up their career or their identity to move to another country. Hopefully that will change now that people can work remotely. But, you know, you give up your job as a lawyer, you give up your future goal as becoming a judge and you just lose your sense of self over there. And I saw this, I moved to Costa Rica in 2002 the first time, and I was just a, a kid basically, and I was single, but all of my ex-pat friends experienced this trailing spouse syndrome where a lot of the reasons why people left is because one of the, the partners was unable to work there and they just felt no purpose in the world. And so they ended up going back to their home country. So how did you, you mentioned that one day you just said, okay, I'm gonna get up off the couch and do this thing. But, uh, what is your advice for people that are like, oh my God, I had that. I didn't even know that was a thing. I didn't even know there was a word for that. Like, what is your advice for them to be prepared for that and then how to overcome that once they, it's almost like a postpartum depression, I would think.  

Juanita:    00:33:23    A couple of things. One, even knowing that that's what that is and to anticipate that you may feel this way because it's not just the person that's going through the trailing spouse depression or syndrome, but also the, the spouse that's actually the leading spouse. I think you need to be a bit more sensitive.  

Kristin:    00:33:43    It's extra pressure on them.  

Juanita:    00:33:44    Yeah. And, and will and then too, you may not know what somebody is like, why, why is my spouse being so sad? And I thought, I thought you wanted to move. You know, it's the first thing that they, but I thought this is what you wanted. And what I had to explain. One of my friends here was a is a TV producer. She's from the UK. She's a TV producer. She, um, stopped doing that to, for her husband to move here to Taiwan. Um, she's not on the show. She's just my friend in real life. And <laugh> there. Actually everybody on the show is actually my friend in real life too. I just had a birthday yesterday and I, I'll I'll go into all that <laugh>. But she has a four year old daughter and she was saying, you know, I decided that this was the right time that I could never experience being a stay-at-home mom.  

Juanita:    00:34:26    I never thought that I was gonna be able to do that as a TV producer. And this is a really good thing and I love it and I love the time that I'm spending with her. However, she was like her husband one day came in and said, you ought to be grateful. You ought to be happy. I mean, I would love to just hang out with our kids all day long and just hang out with our daughter and not have to do anything else. And you know, you, I I would, I wish I could spend all that time with her. You, I'm, I'm giving up things too. You spend more time with her than I do now I'm sacrificing too. And it just wasn't the right response to give. And it was. And I had to tell her. I was like, this is what I want you to tell him to explain to him when you are the trailing spouse.

Juanita:    00:35:06    And especially for women or men who give up a particular career or shift out of a particular career. Yes, we said, yes, we would do it. Yes, we agreed to do it. Yes, it's probably the best thing for our family and we're going to love it at times. But there will be a percentage of times where you, and it's a natural process because you have to transition. There will be a period of time where you also agree to starve a particular part or side of yourself.  So everybody is multifaceted. Right? We women, we are more than just mothers. We are more than just wives. More than just being a lawyer. I'm a bunch of different things. Every person is, but that particular thing that you give up, you also agree to sign on to say, I'm going to let that starve. Now I may feed it eventually with something else, but you cannot deny that you're starving it.  

Juanita:    00:36:03    So one, I think being aware that that's what you're signing up to do and not being delusional about, oh, I'm, I'm not really going to give that up. Maybe you'll find a job when you go over to the new location. Maybe you won't. Right. And what about if you don't? And if you do, maybe it'll be different than what was or what you thought it was gonna be. So one, being aware that that's happening. Two, the supporting or accompanying spouse that you're, or the leading spouse, having them be aware that that is happening. And also being aware that there's no aspect of them that's starving. So like to her husband, I said to tell him, wow, you may not spend as much time with your daughter as soon as you walk through the door. It is daddy. And she comes running to you like, mommy didn't just clean up after you all day long and mommy becomes chopped liver and you're the new sparkling toy and you're her entire world and your fatherhood is not being starved.  

Juanita:    00:36:57    Yeah. You know, you don't stop being a dad. It's just maybe a different percentage, but you're not a hundred percent starving. It. We, in this particular area of career, especially if you go from executive wife to stay at home, mom, you're starving. And you have to admit that that's what you're doing. And you have to be sensitive to that. Because my area of being a lawyer in a traditional way that I actually liked doing, she liked being a TV producer. What she agreed to was, I'm gonna let that starve for a minute. And with everything comes hunger pains. So when you don't feed something, even though after a while you eat, when you fast, you get used to it. You reach this, you know, the 10th day you reach this euphoric high where you're just like, oh, everything's great now. But that first fasting period,

Kristin: the first three days

Juanita:  starvation, oh, you're, you're hangry.  

 Kristin: Yeah. 

Juanita:    00:37:46    You're hungry and angry. You know?

Kristin: Yeah.

Juanita: You are going to go through some career hangry moments, emotional, hangry moments because of what it is that you have agreed to start. And I emphasize the importance of that. 'cause the third thing is understanding that it is your agreement. You cannot take it out on your spouse. It is not their fault. And that happiness is an internal job. It is not your spouse's job to make you happy. It's not your job to make them happy. They come with purpose and the new role and everything. It's your job to go find your happy. And I would advise people to do two things. One, try to seek out something that is familiar. Try to seek out your tribe, a support group. Nobody succeeds in a bubble. Really try to seek out, uh, and I know that's hard for introverts to do, or I'm sorry if you can hear my dog in the background, he's

Kristin: Oh, that's okay.

Juanita:  Awake Now <laugh>. Um, okay.  

Kristin:    00:38:40    That this is real life. This is real life.  

Juanita:    00:38:42    Yes. This is real life. Like this, you know, this is what's happening. Um, but two things. Go and find tribe, making sure that you get the support system just so that you can find something that's familiar. There is strength and familiarity. And I think a lot of times you, the, the new is inevitable. Everything is new. I can't even, like, I, on the show, I talk about trying to become vegan and how hard it is to be vegan when you can't read the ingredients on the box. So I don't know if there's milk in here. You know, everything is new. There's new languages, there's new places. And you don't have to worry about, oh, let me have a new experience. Going to buy socks is gonna be a new experience. Like it is fine.

Kristin:    00:39:20   Yeah. Seeing you walking through the market in Taiwan and you're like that, is that a cow tongue? Yes. And is that a man getting a pedicure Yes. Next to the cow tongue. Like those kinds of things you can't even really prepare yourself for. And no, you know, not judging that market. But when you get on that plane and land overseas and the grocery store is different, the language is different. The culture is different. You don't have your friends, you don't have your support system. You don't have your job anymore. And, and I mean, it's a big shock to the system. And so I think that is good advice. Giving yourself that time to grieve and mourn the, the life you had before. And then just to give space for this new life to sprout out of that.  

Juanita:    00:40:08    Well, and don't be, you know, people will shame you into like, oh, now here's what I'm, I'm not saying go to Paris and eat McDonald's. Yes. Explore the food. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not saying just gravitate towards what you know, but in terms of being able to get up off the couch, for me it was finding that which was familiar. And I started volunteering at Dress for Success in London, which is still now a charity that, and it was the old affiliate that was there that at one point in time went out of business and they disaffiliated they went out of business, stopped being dressed for success. And I eventually became the founder of the new affiliate of Dress for Success. I, that dress. But it, it started out, and this show actually the proceeds part of the proceeds go to support Dress for Success in London, which is my favorite chair and Chattanooga.  

Juanita:    00:40:55    'cause I started one in my hometown after that. That's a whole nother story. But the proceeds are going to empower women. Um, but one of the reasons why I got connected was because it was familiar. It was a reason for me to, when I got up off the couch, it was because I gotta go volunteer for Dress for Success today. And then the other thing that I also did, I used to do Mrs. Pageants. So, you know, in in the pageantry world, there's a teen, a miss in M I S S and a Mrs. Pageant. And I used to do Mrs. Pageants. Like I had done a couple, only because I felt like, and my life coach when I was in London helped me to see that what really drives me. And she was like, yes, you're a lawyer and you like helping people, but what really drives you is empowering women.  

Juanita:    00:41:38    It's, it is an undergird of everything that you do. And I had already, I was already a fundraiser and I was doing pageants to bring awareness to Dress for Success in the States. And so they, the owners of Mrs. World had reached out to me. It's another story, another time I tell people this was like, you know, 10 years and 20 pounds ago, um, <laugh>. But what also got me up off the couch was going to volunteer and connecting to something that was familiar. And the other thing that was familiar to me was pageantry. And the owners of Mrs. World contacted me and asked me would I go to Mrs. World and represent the UK 'cause they had seen me win in the US before and realized that I was there. And nothing gets you up off the couch like a swimsuit competition that, you know, you have to enter into. And you sat there on the couch for the last four months eating chips and you know, all the yummy biscuits that London has to offer.  

Kristin:    00:42:30    Oh my gosh. The cream tea. Oh  

Juanita:    00:42:33    Man. cream teas, the all the, the  

Kristin:    00:42:35    Trumpet, all of that.  

Juanita:    00:42:37    Oh, I was letting all the carbs hug me from the inside <laugh>. Okay. I was getting all my comfort and, and I gained a little weight. And so realizing that, oh, I find the things that you love to do, the things that will be important enough for you to get up. And so I had a couple of those things driving me to get up. And I, one day, honestly, I remember where I was, I literally was like, instead of sitting, I'm just gonna stand. And I literally just stood there for probably 15 minutes and I stood up and I cried. I didn't stop crying, but I just did it standing. And then the next day I did it walking. Oh. And then the next day I was like, okay, I can't cry right now 'cause I gotta go help some other women and empower them.  

Juanita:    00:43:19    Yeah. You know, and I can't go in there crying. They're like, what's wrong with her? I don't want her dressing me. And so you just have to find a reason to get up and then give yourself permission to get a life coach. I think that that's such an underrated thing that trailing spouses don't engage in enough change my entire world. Because people, when you start to do something new that is different as though you, you, you know, okay, I'm in this new environment, people won't even allow you to reinvent yourself nowadays. They, they project their box onto you, but you have to reinvent yourself as a trailing spouse because nothing is the same.  

Kristin:    00:43:56    Yeah. And it's an opportunity to reinvent yourself because the people there don't know you yet. So it, it, it does seem that, I would also add, like what you were explaining is basically helping other people. So it's, it's these human needs that we all have. It's reconnecting with those in a new context. So it's getting out and meeting people, it's helping others volunteering, integrating with the local culture, but like in a practical day-to-day sort of way. And then also self love and self care. You know, just like spending time and money on yourself, whether like whatever type of support that is a life coach is a great option and not being guilty about it. And then just seeing where that leads. At least it's gonna help you climb out of that dip that everybody goes to. It's unavoidable. Like every single expat goes through the dip. Absolutely. The honeymoon phase ends and it comes crashing down into the dip. And you don't know how long you're gonna be in the dip. Eventually you can get out of it, but that's where some people quit and go home. But you can get out of it faster if you like. Take these, these steps, <laugh> these initiatives. Yeah.  

Juanita:    00:45:08    If you, if you take the steps and, and like you said, not being afraid to recognize that you're worth investing in. Recognize that this is a journey for you as well. Not just for your spouse, but also you are going to need support and help along the way. And I think relocation companies do as good of a job as they possibly can. Like we're, we're in the process right now of relocating to Singapore. So all of it starts all over again. You know, luckily my kids got into school already, <laugh> in Singapore. Every, all of that works out. But everything we just signed up for our cultural training, which we would do in quarantine for, you know, virtually give us something to do, um,  

Kristin:    00:45:46    <laugh>. But, and the third time, you know what to expect.  

Juanita:    00:45:49    Exactly. You know, what to expect. You know? Um, it's not so foreign. It is not a new undertaking. You know, kind of what I like, I, I tell people all the time, I'm like, okay, now I can move with my eyes closed down. And honestly, during this move, we have to pick out a house virtually. Like we're, when we go to Singapore, normally you'll have the house hunting trip. We won't have that because of Covid. So we're going there without having a home per se. You know, you always have the support of a company that's moving in and they've been fantastic through a pandemic. But we are not the only ones that are relocating during a pandemic. And that is its own set of challenges. We're filming season two right now, and that's all being shown because that's the reality of moving. Oh, it's gonna be so much fun. And then we're deep diving into, we're, we're, we're discussing, um, dating internationally as well. Oh. So, you know, last season, 'cause Kenan and I already come as a package, like we've been married so long. 

Kristin:    00:46:43     Yo, I'll fly over there. I have never been to Singapore.  

Juanita:    00:46:46    <laugh>. Oh, Singapore is great. Like we went, um, in 2019, uh, just as a vacation  

Kristin:    00:46:52    To the, to the zoo. I was watching that. I'm like, it's so surreal. It looks like you're at Disney World, but you're at a zoo in Singapore and it just looked like a family vacation, like the Griswold family vacation, except it's in Singapore and you're an expat family. It was a little surreal.   

Juanita:    00:47:08    Yeah. It's a surreal experience. It's surreal to make the show. I just wanted to show my journey of identity and searching out for identity. And people are like, oh my gosh, you're just, you're not just owning this trailing spouse thing. Like, you're like queen of trailing spouses and you're like, thriving. I'm like, this is a culmination though, of nine years at this and this is, you know, this will be other. And and in the beginning I was drowning. I was like, Ugh. You know? And so I, I wanted to be honest with people and to give people the freedom to feel everything and hopefully the encouragement, um, and through at least talking about it, at least knowing what the term even means, um, that they'll know. And I think that that, whether you're a trailing spouse or whether you're going through any type of change, your way of navigating through it may differ. But I do think, again, the life coach changed everything for me because I, you know, starting back acting and I was writing books and my, my colleague, my legal colleagues were like, oh, you going through a midlife crisis <laugh>, because it just seems like you should be over there trying to find a legal job. And, you know, I think that's what we do as trailing spouse we, we look for the normality of like, oh, well I'm gonna try to find  

Kristin:    00:48:28    The same job I had  

Juanita:    00:48:30    Or, or, or just to keep my career progression moving. Yeah. Is what my, even my family members were like, well, you know, you wanna stay progressive in the marketplace. You gotta keep the machine moving. You need to go out and fight something for you to do. And I actually did a job share. I decided when I first moved there, 'cause my, my, my mindset was, oh, I've gotta, I've gotta find a job because my job is my identity. It's my self worth. It's, it's, it's what I am. It's who I am. And I did a job share. I decided to do a business role. I listened to a mentor. She was like, well, lawyers never get a chance to do a business role. It'll make you a better business attorney. Go out and do this. And I did it and I loved it and it was great. But it also stifled me from doing auditions.  

Kristin:    00:49:14    You are more than just a job title <laugh>.  

Juanita:    00:49:16    I'm more than just a job title, more than just a typecast of a particular role. It was not letting me be my full self in this season. And what the life coach helped me to see was I was in a new season and I was not embracing the opportunities of that new season. I was trying to shove an old narrative into a new season, and it becomes stale. And so I quit. And the day that I quit the worldwide CEO of Dress for Success called me, it's like a week later and said, would you start this new affiliate? And my whole world changed in terms of being in nonprofit leadership. Um, I had been practicing and I was nonprofit real estate, commercial contracts and entertainment. Those are my areas of law. So it, I pulled on different skillset sets that I already had. It was the best thing. I'm still chairing the board. It's just fantastic.  

Kristin:    00:50:07    And then you find yourself on Sky News  

Juanita:    00:50:10    Then I, yeah. And so I'm on, I'm on, I'm Sky News commentator. I'm still, I've got a agent now in the UK and she's searching out all these opportunities. I, but when I did that was when I, when I quit, was when I started back acting full swing and I was always available. And that's when the roles came and that's when the opportunity, and I really stepped into the fullness of being in this new season in my life and my life coach helped me see the three A alliteration in my life. She was like, everything that you do is all about women's empowerment. And she was like, you are an attorney, an author and an actress, and the three A's. And she just, you know, I had a mission statement and I am, you know, this light and I illuminate this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But helping to weave that into a package and it, it had to make sense to me first. And then when I started saying it to people, they were like, ohoh. And it made sense, but I had to make it make sense to myself and I had to own it and accept it from me. And then if other people got it, fine, if they didn't, fine. They can watch me on TV and figure it out now.

Kristin:    00:51:14     Yeah. And then in hindsight, if you hadn't have moved, you would've continued on that safe lawyer path potentially becoming a judge. But you wouldn't have had this show. Your kids wouldn't have been able to grow up in other cultures. Like your husband's clearly had different job opportunities out of this. And so through that discomfort came this whole metamorphosis kind of, and I mean, you wouldn't have been able to really do the, the actress, author, activist thing without having left your comfort zone. One of the things that I noticed, because I, I did this video, I'll have to send it to you. It's a video on Why Expats Leave Costa Rica, specifically Americans, about kind of the reality of living abroad and why people stopped doing it. And, um, I've also done a video on the, the positives and the negatives of living abroad. And one of the things I talked about was how expats end up being the unofficial spokespeople for their country, because there's so few of us in the other countries

Kristin:    00:52:24     And that can be a challenge because we're expected to just understand everything that's going on back home and, and kind of be the, um, spokesperson for the political, uh, situation and everything. And it's, it's helpful because we can provide more clarity than people would get otherwise from the news. But I talked about how that was challenging, and I saw that you took that to another level by not only probably having these discussions privately with locals in, in London or in Taiwan or wherever you were living, but actually going on Sky News London and talking about, I believe it was, was it the Black Lives Matter movement or Trump, but what was it like going on a foreign news network as a former expat of that country and explaining US relations to that local population?  

Juanita:    00:53:21    You know, it is something that I think you should not do without proper media training. <laugh>. I think it's something that is, it is, it is a huge responsibility. You know, you represent not only yourself, but, and, and it is, you know, your personal opinion. And they did ask me to come on and talk about my personal views, but I'm not British. And they really do want to hear, especially on US topics. It was interesting to I, it it's always well received as long as I find that you are balanced and fair, but that's with any conversation or commentary that you give. It is, uh, I would say it's surreal, but I had already done it for so long  and because I was also keenly and I am keenly aware of British culture, you know, I've done cultural training. I've lived there for almost five years. You have to balance, because I think sometimes, often, especially as Americans, we see the world through our lens and we have to understand the cultural nuances and be respectful of them. When you are in someone else's country, even representing your own opinions about your own country, about things that are affecting you, you still have to be very conscientious  

Kristin:    00:54:42    Right. Of those cultural nuances.  

Juanita:    00:54:45    Yeah. And, and I think it's a matter of cultural competence. I think you have to, to really build your cultural competence, you just have to really immerse yourself and immerse yourself in that culture so that you become culturally competent to represent your opinions and ideas in a way that translates appropriately in their culture. And so it is, it's a trained skill. It takes some time.  

Kristin:    00:55:10    Wow. That is amazing. I hope that more, um, people get that opportunity because I think it's a win-win for the locals to hear from the other perspective, um, from somebody who's qualified, of course, but who's also still a regular person, but who also has that cross-cultural background of having lived abroad versus them, you know, patching in somebody from New York City to talk about it, who doesn't live there.  

Juanita:    00:55:36    Again, you don't have to make up fake storylines or, you know, try to be overly dramatic being and expect it's dramatic enough. Like you can't even go to a peace rally and it be <laugh>, uneven <laugh>, you know. So, uh,  

Kristin:    00:55:49    Along those lines, I don't know if you saw this, but, uh, last year I think it was Taiwan. Taiwan is always on those top 10 lists for expats. And this year it was number one, I think for 2020 or 2021. Why do you think, after having lived in the US, Europe, and Asia, why do you think Taiwan consistently ranks number one for foreign citizens?  

Juanita:    00:56:15    Oh gosh. You know, top three things I can think of first and foremost is cost of living. it's extremely affordable. To come here and live well is extremely low cost of living. Second, their healthcare system is phenomenal. It's absolutely outstanding and very affordable. Extremely affordable and, and really done well. Like it's quality. 

Kristin:    00:56:40    Yeah.    

Juanita:    00:56:40    Third would be, Taiwan is beautiful. It is just absolutely. And it's very diverse. It's, it's, you know, quite large for an island. It's 24 million people here and you get a lot of topographically, you get diversity from south of Taiwan to northern Taiwan. East and west are different. There are islands out of Taiwan. There's so much to do here and so much to explore here that I think during, during the pandemic and, and fourth would be safety. 'cause I think we are the fourth safest country in the world. Tavian the fourth safest city right. In the world. So it's good to raise children here to raise families.  

Kristin:    00:57:20    Great education system.  

Juanita:    00:57:22    Great education. Well, I don't, you know, it depends on who you ask about Great education. It it does because you, you'll have teachers that will say, you know what? Things could be a little bit better. But the safety factor, it is universally safe. I will say that we do have some of the top international schools here that rank in the top amongst the international system.  

Kristin:    00:57:44    And so are locals not worried about an invasion by China? Because <laugh> Yeah. That's something that people have commented a lot on my videos and I was like, I think this is a, a threat that has always been there, but I haven't lived there. So what is the perspective from, from that side?  

Juanita:    00:58:01    When I speak to locals about it, they're always concerned. But it is, it is something that has been common now. It's ramped up more and more. I think my perception over the, the two years that we've been here, I think our success with Covid and I say our success 'cause you know, Taiwan for, well, almost 200 something days had no local covid cases.  

Kristin:    00:58:23    Right  

Juanita:    00:58:24    Now we've had a uptick. Right now we're technically, we're in a soft lockdown right now. Um, <laugh> because we had a uptick in the last two months from a pilot that didn't fully quarantine, that came and infected. Now we're like 11,000 new cases over the last month. But we're seeing a decline in that and we're, we're slowly coming out of it. But there is always a political strain with China. It is so real. And I think it worries foreigners probably more than locals from my perception. But locals are very much concerned about it. It is so concerning and very real that I intentionally did not cover it in the show. 'cause I did not wanna stoke that flame.  

Kristin:    00:59:08    Oh, right. Yeah.   

Juanita:    00:59:08   'cause it's very real and I'm very conscientious about what I say about it even now because these are people's lives.

Kristin: Right.

Juanita: And do they fly more frequently now they being China planes into Taiwanese airspace? Absolutely. But I feel like that's such a local issue and this is part of having cultural competency. I don't feel like it's my place to speak on that.  Okay. 'cause it is so real and it will impact, obviously, uh, the country. And I think that is where you have to know how to draw the line being foreign and being in a particular country. What is appropriate for you to speak on and what is not. And so I, you know, try to not speak on that particular topic. 'cause I don't feel, I don't feel like it's my place. I really don't.  

Kristin:    00:59:58    And then there was two other things that you mentioned. So the healthcare, first and foremost, you shared on the show that you went through some health challenges, including the days before you moved to Taiwan. And so it must have been

Juanita: Yes.

Kristin: Um, of relief that they have such a good healthcare system. That is a really big concern for a lot of people that are going abroad is like, how will you know, what will, who will my doctor be? How will I take care of myself? And so can you, uh, provide some insight into how the healthcare system works there and also your personal health? Like, are you over the, um, are you in a good place health-wise and that was all taken care of while you've been abroad?  

Juanita:    01:00:44    Yes, I am. I am in a great place health-wise. I have a wonderful doctor that, she's actually the number one breast cancer doctor here in Taiwan. Her practice is not really, you know, you have, you have hospitals here that cater towards American and English speaking foreigners, and then you have local hospitals here but Taiwan just has some of the best medical professionals here. They, they do have a national healthcare system after you've lived here consecutively, I think for like six weeks, you get to sign up, but you get to sign up for their free healthcare system when you're working here and you're paying into, you know, taxes here and everything. And it's just so affordable. But it is, it's not affordable and questionable. It's affordable and really good. My, my doctor, who's also a nun. Um, but she's also <laugh> a doctor. She's just phenomenal. And my scans are clear from everything that we've, that they went in to get that was concerning that I still have some lumps that we are watching. Um, and so I, I go in for screens every three to six months and it's been fantastic.  

Kristin:    01:01:48    Okay. That's great news. I'm so happy.

Juanita:    01:01:51    Yeah, thanks. I'm, I'm, I'm really happy with that experience and it's just, it's very affordable, you know, dental and our, their healthcare system covers everything from dental to medical, to glasses, contacts, everything.

Kristin: Okay.

Juanita: So it's just really, really comprehensive and really good. Yeah.  

Kristin:    01:02:08    And then let's say for people who are moving temporarily to Taiwan who aren't residents, they don't have work visas, they're just there on a, a temporary visa or even a passport, let's say post pandemic what would you say the average cost of living would be for let's say a couple that live in Taiwan for three months or six months?  

Juanita:    01:02:28    Mm. Oh gosh. You know, that's going to vary. It depends on, on how and where you live and what, how you wanna live when you get here. So living here as a teacher will be very different in terms of your budget, in terms of, you know, what your expectations are and what you're comfortable with versus your corporate move. So what our monthly expense is to live here, totally different than if you, if let's say someone were to come here, I'll take Zoe as an example. Her, I know her rent per month where she was at that time. She no longer lives there, but I think it was like 8,000 NT uh, Taiwanese dollars, which is about a little under $300 a month.

Kristin: Wow.

Juanita: Um, just, yeah, just for her apartment. That's not utilities. So I honestly, you know, I have seen people say, you know, you can live here for 10,000 NT a month comfortably with food, utilities, rent, everything. And that's 10,000 NT if it's a 30, maybe $400 a month.  

Kristin:    01:03:31    Wow.  

Juanita:    01:03:31    Yeah. It is extremely cost effective. Our, our public transportation system extremely effective. I mean, the MRT is safe, it's clean, the busing system here is reliable. You can get anywhere that you really need to go, especially if you live in the city. Taking the MRT somewhere is really quick. It's inexpensive. Even if you were to take the high speed rail to different cities or go down south, it's just very affordable to live.  

Kristin:    01:04:03    And let's say if it's, um, an expat family living in a, a large single family home or a super nice luxury apartment, what would the difference be?  

Juanita:    01:04:13    A lot <laugh>. Um, but if they were <laugh>, if, if they were, uh, if your company is, is, is covering that, you probably don't even know the amount what that is because they sign the lease and they, you know, and you have an allocated amount each month that you pay for. But like, you know, my, my apartment that I live in, it is not 8,000 <laugh> a month. You, it's probably, it's probably more than 10 times that. But I'm in a 4,000 square foot penthouse.  

Kristin:    01:04:43    Right. 

Juanita:    01:04:44    It's  still not bad.  

Kristin:    01:04:45    That's like a one bedroom in Miami <laugh>.  

Juanita:    01:04:48    Yeah, absolutely. It still is quite affordable to even live in sort of a more higher end, what they would consider a luxury district, if you will. Here it's still extremely affordable for what you get for the amount of money. I mean, we've got a swimming pool in this building, a sauna, you know, it's, it's a, a full gym, but there are so many places, middle ground places where you can get all the amenities and all of those things and, and have security at the front door like we do and those type of things. It's just, you know, it's very affordable to live here. But when we show on the show, we, Zoe wants to show me her apartment and show me where she lives. And you'll see on the show it's, it's, it's a studio apartment, great energy, great light. She has all, everything that she needs. Yeah. You know, and um, so it just, I wanted to show that also so people wouldn't be deterred in thinking, well, if I don't go on a corporate package, I can't afford to make that leap. And it is very affordable. I think it does take planning and there's so much information and resources out there that can really help you to know and plan as to how it is you want to live in that particular country. So it's, it's very doable.

Kristin:    01:06:02    Yeah. Um, just a couple lightning round questions. Can you recommend to us a couple local tips? Like, let's say, what is a destination or a day trip that you could recommend outside of Taipei? Maybe like your favorite food, your favorite restaurant, something like that, that people can Google and go do that.  

Juanita:    01:06:22    Yes, absolutely. So I think, gosh, there's so many day trips that you can take here. Yilan is a city named Yilan here. Y I L A N has one of the most beautiful "waiao" I, I think I'm probably not pronouncing that right. 'cause my Mandarin is horrible <laugh>. But it is a black sand beach. It's like 45 minutes from where we live in northern Taiwan. It's 45 minutes from the main capital city of Taipei. And it's absolutely gorgeous. I mean, I go there often just to get away. It is a beautiful beach. Any beach location here really is amazing. There's also, if you're going for like a weekend trip, there's an island called Penghu or Penghu. It's, they pronounce it and it is absolutely gorgeous. We went island hopping off of the island of Penghu. You take a local 40 minute flight, not even 40 minutes, maybe 25 really?  

Juanita:    01:07:18    Um, it's a very short flight to the island. It's still Taiwan, but it's an island off of Taiwan. And it's just absolutely breathtaking. Those have probably been my favorite locations. I don't have a location in Taiwan that I didn't enjoy. It's just a beautiful island. But a day trip to Yilan, I think then off of Yilan is another island called Turtle Island. 'cause it's shaped like a turtle. And so I would definitely recommend going to tour that. It's just a beautiful, beautiful place. All right. My favorite food here, gosh, between the dumplings and the noodles, I'd have to go with cabbage dumplings. They are just really, really divine. They just put you in a very happy place. <laugh>,  

Kristin:    01:08:00    And I would never think of that.  

Juanita:    01:08:02    Oh my gosh. They're just so, they're so good. There's so many options here. Taiwan has excellent food. The experience I had in the market, the first market that I went to, I think the, the camera crew suggested that we go to that market just for the shock factor. They were like, let's take her to the most, you know, extreme place where she's gonna really be immersed in local, uh, cuisine and options. But the local markets have some of the best food and I think the cabbage dumplings and they're huge dumplings. Like, they're almost the size of my hand.   

Kristin:    01:08:36    Oh my gosh.  

Juanita:    01:08:36    So when I say dumpling, it's not like little bitty dumplings that we think about, but it's these huge dumplings and they're filled with the most flavorful cabbage. And as someone who's trying to go vegan, and it's like, sometimes it's, it can be a challenge. I think there are also, yeah. So many wonderful vegan restaurants here. It's hard for me to pick my favorite. Um, Vegan Taipei.  

Kristin:    01:08:57    Oh, Vegan Taipei. Okay.  

Juanita:    01:08:58    Yeah. Yeah. They have a lot of options. Really good vegan cheese, which is hard to find.  

Kristin:    01:09:03    Oh, wow. Yeah. I wouldn't think that even in, in Asia, being that they don't eat that much cheese. But I was just in Vegas last weekend and we went to, um, or it was a few weeks ago now I guess, but we went to, um, a Taiwanese, a dumpling restaurant at the Aria And it was pretty brand new. And I mean, we just ordered so many different things. We had these dumplings that had soup inside. That was really interesting. <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I loved it, but <laugh>. Um, but I was like, wow, that food is so good. It was so fresh. They had the people like making handmade dumplings behind the counter. And um, and I've also watched some episodes of Chef's Table where they were in Taiwan and it just looked amazing and going to the local markets and everything.  

Juanita:    01:09:49    Yeah. I've never had a bad meal here, <laugh>. I really haven't.  

Kristin:    01:09:53    Yeah. Um, oh, my last question for you would be, what would you like people to know, let's say back in the US, back in your hometown of Chattanooga, back where you were living in Indiana all over the world, what do you wish that people knew about living abroad? 

Juanita:    01:10:12    Oh gosh. That it is, it is one of the most enriching experiences that I've had that it is very doable. That I think is something that a lot of us should do more of. And it also really brings home that we are all global citizens. And what we do wherever we are, impacts everyone. And I think living abroad really helps you to understand that we are more alike and we are different, but yet our differences are so amazing that we don't have to focus on, oh, we're, we're really all similar. No, we are have a lot of similarities. We also have a lot of differences. And those differences are beautiful. That diversity and seeing other people and appreciating other cultures and the difference that they have from where maybe where you're from or where you grew up or, or your normality or what's norm for you, stretching yourself to really understand other people and other cultures is only going to be of benefit. And I think we will be a, in a better place in the world if more of us could see the differences that we have as positives and celebrate them, understand them, embrace them, admire them, and I think we would all be in a better place.  

Kristin:    01:11:40    Uh, beautifully said. I have goosebumps right now. <laugh>. I love it.   

Juanita:    01:11:44   Oh Wow. <laugh>,  

Kristin:    01:11:45    Thank you for sharing that. Where can people watch your show and connect with you on social media? Because I'm sure everyone's so interested now to dive into these stories that you were sharing with us.  

Juanita:    01:11:58    Oh, thank you so much. Yes. You can go to Amazon Prime video for the Expats International Ingrams. You can also go on the Roku channel, uh, genre TV will will be on there soon. And you can go to purposestreaming.com and you can buy the series there as well. So you know, if Amazon is not available in your country, <laugh>, you can go to Purpose Streaming. So it's purposestreaming.com and we are on all social media platforms. My personal one is IamJuanitaIngram, so that's on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. IamJuanitaIngram. My website is iamjuanitaingram.com. Um, the show is The Expats Show. Um, so expatsshow.com and that's on all social media, the website, you know, you can Google us so you can find us anywhere. And, and, and streaming our show does go to help Dress for success, Greater London and Dress for Success Chattanooga. So, uh, you know, if, and if you have a show idea, my production company, I do have a 501C3 production company and that is purposeproductions.org. And I, I'm very much committed. Our mission is bringing forth narratives that empower women and marginalized people. So I wanna tell other stories and prayerfully we'll be franchise pets Switzerland and showcasing the, the honesty of living abroad all over the world. So that's in the works as well.  

Kristin:    01:13:41    Awesome. Do you wanna produce my show? I'll send it to you.  

Juanita:    01:13:45    Send it to me. Send it to me. I'm looking for opportunities. Seriously. Send it to me.  

Kristin:    01:13:49    <laugh>. Yeah, I I've been a little blocked at it. I like filmed it back in 2018, 2019 and I never released it. So I really need to get it out there. Um,  

Juanita:    01:13:59    I understand that I've been in, yeah. You know, when I was in the uk I sort of tested the waters a little bit and I filmed a reality show about being an international pageant queen. No one's ever gonna see that footage, <laugh>, that'll never be seen the light today. Um, but you gotta, you gotta practice. You got to, you know, get sharp and, and start somewhere and you do. And you'd be surprised that you probably have more a gym and more go than you think you do.  

Kristin:    01:14:30    Yeah. I'll cut a rough cut for you and, um, okay. We'll see. Maybe we can collaborate a bit on that. And, um, I wanted to turn it into a series, but then the pandemic happened, so I didn't do it yet. But yeah, I would love to, um, you know, this is what I do. I help people see this side of the lifestyle. So thanks Juanita. I'll let you go have breakfast with your kids over in Taiwan. Thank you for spending so much time with us today and I hope we get to cross paths in real life someday soon.  

Juanita:    01:15:00    Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.