Learning Languages Faster and Coping with Culture Shock in Colombia

Solis

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Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old-school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests.  

Kristin:    00:02:14    Hey there, Kristin from Traveling with Kristin here, and welcome to episode 194 of Badass Digital Nomads, a very happy Valentine's Day to you today. And today my guest is Joiner Guerrero, who is originally from Venezuela but moved to Columbia a few years ago because of the political situation there, and he's now an English and Spanish teacher living in Columbia but also while traveling the world. So today in our interview he talks a lot about tips for learning a foreign language, whether that is Spanish or something else, and also why he thinks that it can be hard for some people learning a language when they move to a new country. But some tips and hacks and inspiration for you to be able to do it yourself. We also do a little bit of an impromptu Spanish slang lesson near the end of this episode, comparing Spanish slang words from Venezuela, Columbia, and Costa Rica.  

Kristin:    00:03:24    So that was a lot of fun. And make sure to check the show notes out for other resources, a past episode that we had on learning a language, and if you would be interested in potentially getting some remote Spanish lessons from Spanglish 360, the school where Joiner teaches at. And a big shout-out to our listener Dustin, who emailed me asking to have his Spanish teacher on the podcast to share a little bit about his story and living in Columbia. I also found it really interesting to speak with Joiner about his experience with culture shock and adapting, moving from Venezuela to Columbia and also when he spent three months living in Germany, the difference in going from the culture in Latin America to Europe and Germany specifically. So hope you enjoy, Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads Joiner! Are you in Columbia at the moment, or where are you joining us from?  

Joiner    00:04:25    Yeah, thank you for this opportunity and yes, I'm in Colombia right now. I'm living in Cajicá, which is in Cundinamarca, really close to Bogotá. 

Kristin:    00:04:35    Oh, okay. Okay. And do you have a Spanish school there in person? Are you doing most of your work remotely?  

Joiner    00:04:42    We're doing most of the work remotely. We do teach like in person, but right now we're working like 90% online.  

Kristin:    00:04:51    Oh, okay. Yeah, I've never been to Bogotá or that area, but definitely have been to Columbia. I've been to Medellín. So we'll talk a little bit about that cuz I know you have a lot of students there. And actually, the reason you're on this podcast is because one of our  Badass Digital Nomads listeners named Dustin wrote into us through the website and he said he's currently spending half of the year in Latin America and the other half of the year in the United States and he just wanted to introduce me to his Spanish teacher because he was having so much fun living in Columbia and living the digital nomad lifestyle there and said that you guys helped him get a study permit to stay in Columbia. Is that correct?  

Joiner    00:05:41    Yeah, that is correct. But you know, processes in Colombia are not like so difficult and there are like many people coming here to learn Spanish and yeah. You have really good listeners because Dustin is a really good student we have for the academy.  

Kristin:    00:05:57    How’s his progress going? No pressure Dustin, if you're listening to this <laugh>, we're just checking in on your Spanish progress.  

Joiner    00:06:05    Shall I be honest? No, I'm kidding. <laugh>. I mean, Dustin is amazing. I met Dustin like two years ago and his progress is oh tremendous. Sometimes I think that Dustin speak Spanish better than me. 

Kristin:    00:06:21    And he learned from you, or he has a different teacher?  

Joiner    00:06:24    He has been learning in this academy, Spanglish 360, and he has had classes with Andrew, with me, and also with other teachers. So you know, we're like many people, and he has been taking lectures with all of us.  

Kristin:    00:06:40    And why do you think that people struggle so much to learn Spanish? Because I'm sure there's many people like Dustin out there that want to spend part of the year in one country and part of the year and another country. Lots of people really interested in living in Latin America or Spain for that matter and want to learn a language. But as I found when I lived in Latin America, there were a lot of people that had lived there for five years, 10 years and they still didn't speak the language. So why do you think that some people learn and some people don't?  

Joiner    00:07:16    Yeah, exactly. Well, there are so many things to take into consideration eachershere. On the one hand we have to take into account how difficult a language is because I think we all agree that Spanish is a really difficult language, but why is it so difficult? The thing is that this language in pronunciation is very easy, but it's not the pronunciation; it's the grammar. We have many verbal tenses, conjugation of the verbs. And also, a big problem that we have with Spanish is like we don't have enough trained teachers for Spanish. What do we mean with this? There are many Spanish teacher, and they are really good by the way, but many of them don't speak like a second language like English or something. So they're not like able to globally offer language classes for Spanish. So this is like the main difficult problem and also how fast we speak in Latin American countries.  

Kristin:    00:08:19    And what is your process for teaching a language? Because I saw that on the website your process is different from other processes of learning a language and that you're focusing on helping people learn the 20% of the verbs or the language uh, vocabulary that can help them express 80% of what they want to say. So how do you do that?  

Joiner    00:08:46    Yeah, absolutely. The thing is that we have a really good method. First of all we have native teachers, and all of those teachers also speak English as a second language. Cause I consider that the best person to teach you a language is a person who has been through the same process you're going through right now. We understand how difficult learning a language is. We understand frustration because we have been through that when we were learning English, and we offer personalized classes, which means we focus on the needs of one student because sometimes we have like group classes but everyone doesn't learn the same way or at the same speed. So when you're offering like personalized classes, we can focus on the progress one student, we know what that student needs and of course we focus on speaking the language because we are native and this is a very good resource for the student.  

Joiner    00:09:50    So if we're teaching them only in English, sometimes they're not getting this acquisition because they also need to listen to the language. We speak with our accents. In the beginning, we try to be like neutral because we have many accents for Spanish. But then little by little we're getting into our native accent speaking at a normal speed and basically that we offer like Spanish classes, speaking the language little by little. And also something that makes Spanglish 360, like something really fun is that it is not that I'm coming to the class, I teach you Spanish and that's it. No, we also play, we also do some role plays. We do some simulation. For example, I tell you you are going to apply for a job at this company you're gonna apply for this position, so let's do it. And we have a lot of fun while learning a language.  

Kristin:    00:10:44    Okay, so you teach the classes in Spanish?  

Joiner    00:10:47    Most of the classes are in Spanish, but in the very beginning we try to use English like while the student is needing that but you know we have to turn on our cameras to show the student like gestures and everything for them to understand even if they don't understand a word with the context and the way we're moving or speaking, they're able to understand sometimes. So this is the way they learn by, you know, necessary.  

Kristin:    00:11:15    Yeah, I learned Spanish in Spanish so my teachers spoke English I'm sure, but they never spoke English with us and I felt like that was really frustrating at the beginning as you said because when they first told me that, I was thinking how the heck am I going to learn a language in a language that I don't know that doesn't make sense. But it really –really does because that's the way you learn your native language is you don't know any language when you're born. You just learn by watching and listening to other people speak that language and speak it to you, and eventually, you pick it up. It's just that we're so young when we learn that we don't remember learning <laugh>. Do you think that there's any limits to when people can learn a language? Because I remember when I was learning, people were saying, oh you know the best time to learn a language is when you're seven years old or something like that. And if you don't learn then, then it's way harder to learn. And so I feel like a lot of people have this block where they're like, oh, maybe it's too late for me to learn a language. Maybe I'm too old. What has your experience been with the different types of students you've had and the different ages?  

Joiner    00:12:26    WellWell, I consider there's no limit at all because we have like different stages in our lives. For example, I learned English by myself. I was 17 years old. I found a very good website online. The name of this website is OM personal English. And I didn't have any teacher, I didn't have somebody who corrects me but I was able to learn. Then I practiced and practiced. Then when it was 23 I went to Germany and it learned in a total different way. I was listening to your podcast, the one about learning a language with the locals and yeah, you were explaining to us like how you were able to learn Spanish and the thing is that you were living in a country Spanish is spoken, you were in Costa Rica, right?  

Kristin:    00:13:16    Yeah,  

Joiner    00:13:16    Exactly. So that is acquisition. So I also experienced that with German in seven or eight weeks of intensive learning, only using the language. I realized that that also works, and it doesn't matter how old you are because all method works. But the thing is that you have to find the correct method for you and something about what people think that you have to be seven years old to start learning. I remember a case in which there was like a research in which there was some logic problems there were given to some people at university, and these people didn't come up with the answer. And then the same problems were given to some kids from primary school and these kids were able to answer all the questions like really easily. And then they explained why. The thing is that those problems didn't require me thinking at all.  

Joiner    00:14:15    It was something like to get upside down like a picture or something. And that's all why kids were able to do it. Because kids, they don't think much of a solution. They just say everything in the simple way. And this is also for a language. This is how I consider that only being with locals or only getting exposure as kids is not the only method. We also need explanations and reasons why things are like that because we are no longer kids. Even though that could work for you, it is not the only method cause we're no longer kids and we need explanations and reasons for everything  

Kristin:    00:14:57    That's true. As adults, we have all of these other life experiences and expectations and filters and at least we're old enough to ask those questions. You know, I didn't know which questions to ask when I was a little kid. I didn't know what grammar was. But I do think that it can be a benefit learning a language later in life because the brain is elastic, it never loses the capacity for learning And well I guess there's exceptions if you had a brain injury, but even then I've read so many stories about people with traumatic brain injuries that were able to bounce back and the brain was able to create new neural pathways and learn in a different way that defy logic and that surprised doctors. So I think it's one of those things where like if you don't use it you lose it. But just because you're getting older doesn't mean you can't learn new things and learn new skills. Having the ability to break down the verbs and the conjugations. Being that I was in university when I learned, which would've been a lot different from being a seven year old. Of course.  

Joiner    00:16:09    Yeah. You were seven years old and learning languages. You know, I always use a phrase, I identify myself with this phrase, it is from China, I don't really know who said that, but I love it. It says learning is a treasure that will follow its owner everywhere and oh my god this is the best because I have 60 year old students and they're doing their best and they say, oh my god, how they can do it. I mean it is surprising how fast they can learn at a certain age. Of course being honest, it is not the same when you're young, when you're a little bit older you don't have the same capacity, but it doesn't mean you cannot. You can and there's no age for learning.  

Kristin:    00:16:53    Yeah, actually you just reminded me of when I was in high school I was teaching surf lessons and I had a woman who was in her eighties and I taught her how to stand up on a surfboard and I was thinking like, man, when surfing was invented, you know, I don't know if she was probably already born at that time. So yeah, you couldn't really do anything if you put your mind to it. And even my grandma, she didn't start working out or going to the gym until she was 82 or 83. Like she had never gone to the gym in her whole life and she built up this incredible strength and stamina by going to spin classes with like 25 year olds. So yeah, it could be physical, it could be mental. And so do you think that it's a self-imposed mental block that some people have when they move to another country or when they go to study a language where they kind of subconsciously think that they can't do it and that's why they're there for eight years without learning the language? Or do you think it's because they just don't try, like don't go to classes? What do you think? 

Joiner    00:18:04    Well, Yeah, I mean when you are determined you can do anything but of course failure is always a possibility. I've know many people trying their best. They started like even more hours that I did like in the past and still they struggle to learn the language And I wouldn't say this is always like a mental like wall they like impose itself, sometimes yeah, they don't find like the correct method for themselves because you know that there is a theory of different type of learning, some people learn by listening, other people learn by writing or just speaking and maybe these people have been trying with the incorrect method, which for example, it doesn't mean that if this method works for 100 people it's also going to work for you. No, each person is different. And in Spanish we say each mind is a world, a different world.  

Kristin:    00:19:05   That's True  

Joiner    00:19:06    <laugh>. So yeah. So maybe they try a lot, but they don't try to first find the best way, the way that best fits with them.  

Kristin:    00:19:19    Yeah, I think it is a lot of trial and error though, and very small improvements. Like maybe, they don't feel like they're learning but when they look back over a year they've learned 50 new words or something and that can build up and they can get momentum that way. Like I think I was really lucky that I got assigned and placed into a Spanish school that focused on this way of learning in Spanish and also centered around verbs that really worked for me and my brain. But maybe if I wouldn't have gone to that school or if I wouldn't have gone to classes at all and I just tried to get a Costa Rican boyfriend and like learn from him, maybe I wouldn't have learned as well but maybe someone in a different situation who doesn't like school, like I'm a big nerd and a book nerd and maybe they would hate a school that I went to and they would just wanna get a Costa Rican girlfriend and learn from her and like learn more conversationally.  

Kristin:    00:20:23    Yeah. So I think it just depends on the person and maybe the key is just to not give up. Even if you feel like you're not making progress and you feel like you're not learning, you're still building that foundation, which is such a frustrating life lesson sometimes because that part can feel like so long. Like I was talking to a friend Ayo  Awosika, we have a a a podcast with him about how to make money writing on medium and we were talking about how the first eight or nine years out of 10 years is the hardest part. And then that last year of the 10 years that you're working on something is when you get those exponential returns. And in the case of the building that's been going up next door to my house, they spent the first year or year and a half just building the foundation. I never saw anything happening <laugh> like it was just underground. All of the work was going underground and then all of a sudden in a matter of three months they built like 10 stories high. So for 15 months nothing. And then all of a sudden the building goes up. And so I think that's kind of the physical manifestation of what learning feels like to me. Sometimes <laugh> it feels like you don't make progress for like five or 10 years and then all of a sudden there it is.  

Joiner    00:21:48    Yeah. And I know some people who have been trying for six years and they are still motivated and I feel oh my god these people are like a good paradigm to follow, a good example. And do you remember that at the beginning I told you that it is good to have a teacher who went through the same process you're going right now. The thing is that sometimes teachers are not honest. What do I mean with that is that students sometimes they're getting progress cause they are but they feel they are not getting any progress at all. We need to make them understand this is normal, this is normal. It happened to me, it happened to all the teachers. Even a person with a native level for three or five languages. That person went through the same process. That person felt frustrated at a certain point. So if they understand that's normal, they won't feel it's me. Oh no, that is normal. Just going through the process.  

Kristin:    00:22:51    Right. And everyone experiences that. You mentioned that you went to Germany and I see your picture here on Zoom. Yes. In front of the, is it the basilica? I can't remember. I have a photo in front of the same,  

Joiner    00:23:04    Yeah this is the Berliner Dom. Yes. I'm just exaggerating the ‘r’ <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:23:10    <laugh>. So what brought you to Germany and did you learn English there or German and English?  

Joiner    00:23:17    I already spoke English at that moment. I went to Germany because I had been working in Columbia for a long time, like three years and I was kind of, oh my god I want to travel. This is something you will never forget. And I had the opportunity to go to Germany, I have some friends there and they said, Hey Joiner, I know you're working right now but we can give you an opportunity to come here, learn German, we will help you with expenses. And I also spoke with Andrew which is my boss and he said that this is going to be a good opportunity since we are not teaching German at the academy. I will help you with everything you need. Not everything of course. But he supported me like with some expenses and I said Yeah, I'm gonna go there. I'm going to learn the language.  

Joiner    00:24:07    And once in Germany I was surprised because it's totally different. That the Germany country are beautiful but culture there is like so different. It was kind of oh my god this is beautiful traveling is the best experience. That was my first trip to Europe. I started learning like two weeks after I arrived in Germany and I had a German teacher. They were only speaking German and I was kind of, yeah it is good because I'm a teacher and I understand how this works. They used English for clarifications and then I was learning really fast. I was able to speak to have a normal conversation after five weeks and I learned many things that I'm able to apply for the academy as well in my teaching because you learn something new every day after that trip I feel that my life is a little bit more interesting, even before the trip I also went to Latvia. Do you know Latvia?  

Kristin:    00:25:10    Yeah. I haven't been there but I was close by in Lithuania.  

Joiner    00:25:15    Yeah it is very close. They have a local language which is Lavian. But people don't like to speak Lavian, they speak Russian And I was surprised but it's normal in Europe and this is something that I would like Latin American countries to be like that is that everyone in Europe speaks English and that's common. You go to the hairdresser and he speaks English and that's normal. That's common And you say oh my god this is the system that we should have in Latin American countries  

Kristin:    00:25:51    to teach people English.  

Joiner    00:25:53    Exactly.  

Kristin:    00:25:54    Yeah, I know I wanted to ask you about that cuz you're doing some amazing work traveling to different countries throughout Latin America and even teaching kids for free. So I wanna talk about that a little bit. But I'm interested also in your experience in Germany. How long were you there for?  

Joiner    00:26:13    I was in Germany for three month because I have the Schengen visa for Latin American people and you know I stayed there for three months.  

Kristin:    00:26:22    And you were based in Berlin?  

Joiner    00:26:23    Based in Berlin and I visited Hamburg as well.  

Kristin:    00:26:27    Did you stay in a home stay or did you rent an apartment?  

Joiner    00:26:32    I was staying in a friend's house.  

Kristin:    00:26:35    Okay. And did you feel at all any kind of culture shock? Like that was your first time going to Europe upright?  

Joiner    00:26:43    Yeah, it was kind of shocking and like kind of different in North American countries, you go to the street, you know you go out for a moment and when you're back you already have like 10 new friends. But in Germany you go out and when you're back the same, I mean people are like a little bit close because they prefer privacy. And the only friends that you get like really soon are the friends in the academy because those are people from other countries as well. But German people are private and it's not easy to go and meet somebody and yeah, you're my friend now. This is like something that I noticed the most.  

Kristin:    00:27:27    Yeah there's a big difference between the cultures and Latin American countries and European. But I think especially Germany, although Berlin is seen as being the more open and liberal city, but I still feel like people are a bit private. Well once you get to know them they're really nice. It's just having the circumstances and the opportunities to get to meet them.  

Joiner    00:27:56    Exactly,  

Kristin:    00:27:57    Yeah. Did you end up speaking German with your friends there or did you guys default back to English?  

Joiner    00:28:04    When I was with my friends, I tried my best to speak only German. There was a moment in which I had to speak English to communicate but after six weeks I was trying to have all my conversations in German, I almost reached like a B one level in those seven weeks and then I, I was back in Colombia and you know I've been like out of learning for four or five months but I considered that I haven't forgotten like many things but still I need to continue learning.  

Kristin:    00:28:38    Did you find that when you went places and spoke in German, did people speak back to you in German or did they try to speak to you in English?  

Joiner    00:28:47    Oh they tried their best to keep talking in German.  

Kristin:    00:28:51    Okay.  

Joiner    00:28:52    Everyone speaks English but they know you're trying to learn the language so they're like patient with you.  

Kristin:    00:28:57    Yeah, I felt like everyone, I tried to speak German like ordering stuff at restaurants and everything and everyone ignored me. They just automatically spoke in English but it might be because they could tell maybe that I was definitely not German. I could look German a little bit actually, but maybe they could tell that I was American And maybe if you're from a different country then maybe it's a little bit different. I don't know. Where are you from originally? Are you from Columbia or Venezuela?  

Joiner    00:29:29    I'm from Venezuela. I'm from a small town like 2000 people there. And I was going to tell you that in Berlin it's very common that you find American people and something and maybe why they don't reply to you like back in in German is that many many people in Germany don't try to learn German because you can communicate without any problem in English and young people are using like more English than German right now.  

Kristin:    00:30:02    You think so? Like talking to each other?  

Joiner    00:30:05    Yeah, because they went to like kind of a show for some films and they only spoke English, no German at all and they assumed that everyone spoke English in that like scenario and everything.  

Kristin:    00:30:18    Oh interesting. I haven't been there in a long time but maybe I'll go back next year. And how did you find Hamburg?  

Joiner    00:30:26    Oh that's beautiful. I mean the best experience I had was the first time I saw like snow.  

Kristin:    00:30:34    Oh Wow. 

Joiner    00:30:34    I was very happy and that was in Hamburg but it was touching the snow and everyone like acting normal and I was kind of a a little kid with like candy, like really happy and Hamburg is like really beautiful. You can also pay for a trip in a boat in the lake and that's really beautiful. I mean that's a tremendous experience. And something he said about getting the answers back in your language. That happened to me in France. I went to Paris and I realized that people in Paris don't like to speak English. Everyone does but they don't speak English.  

Kristin:    00:31:16    So did they reply to you in Spanish?  

Joiner    00:31:20    I was kind of like, hey I'm sorry I'm looking for the tower and did you speak English? And they like, no, no, no. After 10 people I asked only one person helped me and I was kind of, oh my god, why those people don't speak you know English? I know they do but they don't like it. I don't know why maybe they love their language so much they don't try to do it. I had to speak a little bit of French and you know my French is not good. I was kind of Pardon? 

Kristin:    00:31:53    Yeah, my French is not good either. So you went there from Germany, did you take the train?  

Joiner    00:31:59    No, that was a matter of luck. I lost my flight because of the strong wind and I was stuck in Paris for one day and they said we're going to cover all your expenses. I escaped from the hotel and it went to the tower. Only one day. Only one day  

Kristin:    00:32:17    oh the Eiffel Tower?  

Joiner    00:32:18    Exactly.  

Kristin:    00:32:19    Okay. Yeah, Paris is really, really beautiful. But I've found that flying around that area, like cuz there's so many high speed trains in France, it can be just so much faster to take the train than to fly. Although it depends how far you're going. Cuz sometimes you know to go to south of France or let's say to Cannes or Marseille or something, it can be quite long distances. So were you in Paris by yourself then?  

Joiner    00:32:51    Yeah, I was with a, not a friend, it was a woman I met at airport. She didn't know how to speak English and she was lost so it was kind of her tourist guide. She was from Colombia as well and she had the same problem as me but I was asking the questions I had to ask but she was kind of, I'm lost, I don't have anyone, I don't know what to do. And I said Sorry, do you need any help? And she said yes please help me. And I was like her translator. We stayed at the same hotel then I was telling her, let's go to the tower, let's go, let's go, let's go. And we went together.  

Kristin:    00:33:30    So do you think she was kind of nervous to go out and explore without you?  

Joiner    00:33:36    Without me she wouldn't be out because you know, she didn't know how to communicate in a different language and she, she was kind of concerned about losing the flight. But yeah, we both made it and she was really thankful with me and she said I really appreciate and she even paid from a taxi in Colombia when we arrived in Colombia.  

Kristin:    00:33:58    So you left Columbia and came back at the same time?  

Joiner    00:34:02    Exactly.  

Kristin:    00:34:03    Okay. And was this part of a program of some kind or just a coincidence?  

Joiner    00:34:09    A coincidence. Wow.  

Kristin:    00:34:10    Yeah. So it sounds like you have been really comfortable traveling while coming from such a small village in Venezuela. Did you always have the desire to travel or where did you get this courage and idea of exploration?  

Joiner    00:34:30    Always, I will say always since I was in Venezuela was like in a small town, only two or 3000 people and I was always applying for universities in the United States, you know, when I was like only 13 and universities per like college is really expensive. Then I was like one day thinking and I said Hey mom, I would like to travel around the world. And she said why don't do it because you know I'm the pampered one and the little boy in the …

Kristin:    00:35:01    You're the youngest sibling?  

Joiner    00:35:03    Yeah, I am and they thought I was going to be with them forever but my first trip was actually when it was 19, you know, situation in Venezuela went like worse every time. Yeah. And I came here to Colombia, my grandmother is Colombian and I got my nationalities. So right now I'm Venezuelan in Colombia too.  

Kristin:    00:35:24    Okay. And what are your plans for the future? Where else do you wanna travel to?  

Joiner    00:35:30    Oh many countries. <laugh>. <laugh>. Right now I'm saving some money. I'm working in a a call center and I'm also teaching. So I have two jobs and I'm saving money because before I travel to Europe again I want to get to know at least nine capitals in South American countries. Cause it's a really good trip. You travel for four months? I mean if you travel by air that's gonna be more expensive. But if you travel by bus you spend like around 2000, maybe a little bit more $2,000 and you will travel for four months, staying two weeks in each capital like Lima, Quito then Santiago in Chile and I know that in Brazil the capital is Brasília but I prefer to go to Rio 

Kristin:    00:36:23    And is this through a company or just taking the bus and booking your own hotel?  

Joiner    00:36:30    Exactly doing that because situation in Venezuela situation is difficult. Many people from my town and near places, they're in all those countries. So I have a place to stay.  

Kristin:    00:36:42    Oh okay. And you know them from when you lived there or are there forums and places where you can connect with other Venezuelans?  

Joiner    00:36:52    No, people that I already know, you know from my town and close to the one I was living in. And those are our friends since when I was like 10 or nine years old.  

Kristin:    00:37:04    Oh okay. And which bus company do you use? Because I took the bus all around Peru but I've never taken the bus between different countries in South America. 

Joiner    00:37:15    For that I was checking about the prices and here in Columbia there is one which is Copetran and Libertadores. But you know, I'm so spontaneous I always make my choices when I'm about to do the trips or something to take the trips.  

Kristin:    00:37:32    Okay, so you'll have to ask Ander for a a sabbatical there to take four months off and travel. But could you still teach language classes while you're traveling?  

Joiner    00:37:42    Yeah, he always tells me that, Ander, my boss tells me like, hey a remote job is the best because even if you want to travel you will be able to teach to make money, to relax, to get to know the most beautiful places in the world. And he always like tries to encourage me to travel and teach from different countries because it's good to show students you're succeeding in life and they feel motivated doing that.  

Kristin:    00:38:12    And you get to learn different types of Spanish slang I suppose. And different accents.  

Joiner    00:38:18    Exactly. You know slang Spanish is so hard cause we have so many accents.  

Kristin:    00:38:24    I really like the Spanish accent in Columbia but it's quite different from Venezuelan. How long have you lived in Columbia now and do you feel like your accent has changed?  

Joiner    00:38:34    I've lived for around five years, not consecutive but five years and I don't know, my accent has not changed so much. I feel that I'm speaking like a little bit slower than before because I speak very fast. I don't know why but people in my town speak really fast but I have been like working on that and now I speak a little bit slowly, not slowly, but not as fast as I used to speak before. I know some friends in their accent is like influenced a lot. It's influenced a lot. But my accent, I think it will never change.  

Kristin:    00:39:18   that's interesting. Yeah, I've noticed some people where their accents change a lot and even my accent, I don't know how it is now, but when I had lived in Costa Rica, thank you, for so long I came back to the United States, people would ask where I was from because I think my accent just sounded different. They couldn't tell where I was from within the US And when I was in high school everyone thought I was from California. Maybe because I was a surfer and had more of that vibe. But after being a digital nomad people couldn't tell at all because it would be maybe part Spanish accent, I don't know, it's weird. So I live in Miami right now and there are a lot of Venezuelans here. Of course many people had to leave because of the political situation there. And a word that I always find funny is that, well first of all, yes Venezuelans, I do notice that some of them speak really fast here, not as fast as the Cubans but definitely a little faster than Colombians. But there's so much Venezuelan slang and there's one word that I've learned that kind of just seems to mean anything which is Vina  

Joiner    00:40:35    <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:40:35    Right? Like how would you define Vina and is there a vina in Colombian?  

Joiner    00:40:41    The most difficult class for Spanish is to define those words because it is something that is from you. It is from your accent, from your language. Vina is like a thing.  

Kristin:    00:40:53    Yeah it means anything, right?  

Joiner    00:40:55    Like something, Exactly anything. “It’s a vina” So that thing. Oh look at that thing and vina can also be like situation es. that situation is difficult.  

Kristin:    00:41:10    Yeah. And in Costa Rica it's Vara. So I learned Spanish using Vara like es avara, like that thing is difficult as you mentioned For Cayla Vara it’s like what's up, what stuff is up. And so in Columbia, I was wondering if there was a similar word because I noticed that both of the words Vara and Vina start with V and that you will find a lot throughout languages. Like similar words will have like a similar structure or similar letters that means similar things even if it's in different countries. So have you found an equivalent of Vina, a Colombian Cina or a Costa Rican Cara?  

Joiner    00:41:54    Well it depends because in the cost they say La cosa, the thing, yeah the thing, and I don't find like a specific word for Vina, but they do have their own words like parce pars like hey brother, like hey parce, hey brother. Something like that. Which in Venezuela is like pana.  

Kristin:    00:42:17    Okay.  

Joiner    00:42:18    Oh yeah,  

Joiner    00:42:19    Pana comes from partner, the word partner but pronounced like in British English par-na  

Kristin:    00:42:28    Okay. They say in Costa Rica that, or in Mexico, I think they say this too, that the word gringo comes from  

Joiner    00:42:37    Gringo

Kristin:    00:42:38    Green Go but I don't know because green is Verde, they so how did that come about? 

Joiner    00:42:45    Green gold. I'm kidding. The thing that Gringo for us is a person from, well that has been like standardized like a person from the United States. He's the gringo, he's the American. But also the thing is that gringo is the person who speaks at different language. So you don't understand that person because he's gringo.  

Kristin:    00:43:08    Ah I see just a foreigner.  

Joiner    00:43:10    Exactly.  

Kristin:    00:43:11    So interesting. And then in Colombia have you felt any sort of adjustment coming from Venezuela? Was there a difference in the climate? I guess depending on where your village, your hometown was located versus Bogota. From what I hear, Bogota can be quite cold, the weather can be cloudy, it's a big city. Did you experience any adjustment phase or culture shock moving there?  

Joiner    00:43:39    Well I have been to many cities in Venezuela and I have experienced stressful cities, small cities, small towns and something found in Bogotá is that, oh my god, it is overpopulated. There are many people and everything is full. There are many cars and I never thought I was going to see that situation. I mean so many cars and you cannot like move with freedom or something like that. And when you're going to take the bus, it is really full that you have to make an effort to get in and fit in that bus. But also is that there are like 9 million people in Bogotá and there are like two or three more for Venezuelans 

Kristin:    00:44:25    Oh wow. So most Venezuelans are going to Bogotá

Joiner    00:44:29    Most of them. The thing is that I read a report two years ago, 300 Venezuelan enter to Bogotáevery day. Most of them stay here in the other part are going to Ecuador, Peru and other countries. But something that I feel like very different between Venezuela in Colombia, I wouldn't say that there's like much of a difference because, cause we're kind of similar but about the language, I don't know if you know this information, but in Colombia people say that Spanish is spoken the best.  

Kristin:    00:45:06    Yeah, people say that.  

Joiner    00:45:08    Yeah, exactly. And why, it is not because of the accent. It is because people name things like they're named in a dictionary.  

Kristin:    00:45:18    So would that be like with less slang?  

Joiner    00:45:21    Yeah. Still we have a lot of slang cuz people sometimes don't, don't try to to use the same language as everyone does. But I would say there's more slang like in Medellín 

Kristin:    00:45:34    Hmm.  

Joiner    00:45:35    And I prefer Medellín accent.  

Kristin:    00:45:37    Oh yeah, it is nice. It's a little different there. And why not live in Medellín?  

Joiner    00:45:43    Well I thought about it, but the thing is that I first came to Bogotá, I already have, like we say in Spanish, I have my square here, I have my plaza which means that you already know how everything works here and you are doing great. So I prefer to take that change to apply that change to my life. But for traveling but for a professional life I prefer to, to stay calm here.  

Kristin:    00:46:11    Oh yeah, that is interesting. Well first I've never heard that saying like I have my plaza, but I like that I'm gonna adopt that saying. But I think a lot of people can relate to wanting to choose where they apply their adventurous spirit. It's like you have so much percentage of energy or time that you wanna spend adventuring around, but when it comes to work and productivity, personal life, getting things done, you maybe want some more stability there and more familiarity I guess.  

Joiner    00:46:47    Exactly. And now, oh my god, this is a really good conversation and I never get tired when I talk about traveling, but I would like to add something about the academy which is social work. I've been doing social work for around seven years. My father set up a foundation for to help people with disability. 

Joiner    00:47:10    And I started to work for this academy. I talked to Andrew and I said, Hey you know, I have some proposals here. We should apply some teaching. You know, for people with disability, they should also have the opportunity to learn a second language. Sometimes they're excluded from so many companies, they don't have the same opportunities. But we can change that. For example, if I teach English to somebody with disability who is going to tell them, no you cannot apply for this job. Of course they can do it because they speak the language. I mean at least for a bilingual job in talking about this, I took a trip to Venezuela to my hometown and I spoke with him, with Andrew and we agreed in teaching some teenagers for free. And I selected like you know, out of those 2 or 3000 people, like I mean what I consider the best students at the moment. And they had six or seven for free and they had 10 more charging them. But at Venezuelan price. 

Joiner    00:48:18    I was surprised because 10 or 15 people, teenagers were able to get in three months a big one level. That was surprising because I was the only person who spoke the language in my town. Well right now I'm the only person speaking the language at an advanced level because people there don't have the opportunity to learn a second language. There are no teachers and also they don't have the money to afford going to the city and pay for a course. So after I did this, that was like seven months ago actually now there are courses everywhere in my town. People are really motivated to learn the language. And I would say that now there are like 25 people speaking the language.  

Kristin:    00:49:05    Oh and a town of just 2000.  

Joiner    00:49:08    Exactly.  

Kristin:    00:49:09    So what do you think the solution is for helping people learn English on a wide scale in Latin America? Do you think it's something that the government should be responsible for or do you think it's a model where it can organically spread if private companies and teachers are doing this type of social work, teaching English to locals and then inspiring those people to then teach more locals and have kind of a compound effect?  

Joiner    00:49:44    Well, I would say that it is like a mixed, it depends on the government and also it depends on us. Why? Because for example, I made this choice and I taught these people and they were able to learn the language. And basically in my town there was a solution for this problem of non-speaking English people. But at the same time, many people tried to do the same as I did and they don't receive support from the community, they don't get the students interest. You know, some students you are teaching them, they don't feel like that motivation. They make you feel like they don't want to learn the language and also they don't get the resources from the government. For example, it was hard for me to get a place in which I could teach, even though I was doing that for free. I was receiving notes from some places in the community until I spoke with the principal of one school and she said, yeah, this place is yours because you're doing something for the community. So it is a mix of everything. Teachers, community and government. If we work together we can make it  possible.

‘Kristin:    00:50:56    Well I love that goal that you have to teach English to everyone in Latin America. Do you plan on doing that also in Columbia or in other countries? For example, when you go around for four months?  

Joiner    00:51:10    That would be like tremendous experience because I would like to do that. The thing is that, for example in Colombia, as you said, I have a square in Colombia. I know and I have many students right now I'm working many hours a day. But the thing is that when I go to other countries, it's not going to be easy to get plenty students to get them like learning a language. But I totally would like to do that with the academy so we can spread the message and you know, if we have a lot of people interested in learning, we can create a program to reach every corner of the world.  

Kristin:    00:51:49    Yeah, I mean the challenges are that it can take, as you mentioned, at least one month of consistency for people to be able to express themselves. Like for you it took five weeks and Germany, for me it took at least a month and maybe it was four to six weeks in Costa Rica going to school four days a week and living with a host family and being forced to speak Spanish everywhere. And then the problem with teaching English in a non-English speaking country is that you have that timeline to get started and create that foundation that we were talking about. But then you need to maintain it and it's hard to do that when other people don't speak English around you. And that's the problem that I've personally felt getting motivated to let's say learn French or German, which I've tried to do online a couple times from other countries.  

Kristin:    00:52:44    And I felt like it was difficult for me to keep that motivation when there was no one around me that I could speak French with in person in Miami. Like maybe there is if I go to the French restaurants or the French bakeries or something like that. So what do you think would be a workaround for that? Or is it more that people learn to speak English and then hopefully they get inspired to get remote jobs where they're practicing their English or get to travel or study abroad in an English speaking country? Or what do you see as the end goal there for people to be able to maintain those skills?  

Joiner    00:53:21    Well yeah, this is a very good question because not everyone has the opportunity to learn the language in a foreign country where the language is spoken. The thing is here, for example, most of the people who learn English here, they do it because they want to get a better job. And the best way to keep on practicing a language is to get a remote job. Or not even a remote job, but a bilingual job  

Kristin:    00:53:46    Or work in tourism.  

Joiner    00:53:48    Exactly. Something like that. For example, here in Bogotá, we have many call centers and those call centers are everyday hiring people because they're not like enough people in Colombia to afford the necessary of bilingual people to cover those jobs. It is like less expensive to have a call center in Colombia than having it in the United States. So that's why they prefer to hire a call center here in Colombia and they need for each campaign and they need like at least 40 or 50 people and they need to hire all those people and they need a B two level, which is high in terminate. But I've noticed that because of the lack of bilingual people here, they're hiring even people with B one level. And I've seen companies offering a program, you get paid for reaching B two if you already have B one. And that's something that I always tell my students, Hey, if you learn English, the opportunities will reign to you you'll have opportunities every day. And some of them are doing it because they want to travel to the United States. As you know, people are going there and crossing like this forest, Do you know the Darien, Do you know that?  

Kristin:    00:55:06    Yeah. to cross the border  

Joiner    00:55:08    Yeah, exactly. And so many people are trying to learn the language, but the thing is that it's a little bit more difficult to do it in Colombia than doing it in the United States still. We try to give them every tool they need, all the resources, I teach them the language and I also give them like 1000 resources for them to use out of the class for them to keep like themselves using the language in practicing. Because if you don't have anyone who you can practice with, how are you going to maintain all that information to keep all that information in your mind?  

Kristin:    00:55:43    Yeah,  

Joiner    00:55:44    Internet is the solution 

Kristin:    00:55:46    Right? I mean that's a good idea to have the call centers funding English classes for people so they're actually training their workforce. But those are some other good ideas for people to practice by having remote jobs where they're speaking English or any language that you want to learn. And then we can also link to my other podcast on learning a language where the show notes, we have a lot of different websites where you can practice conversationally with other people. And so I think once you get into that habit, if you fail, then try, try again. Like if it's something that you want to learn, let's say you really wanna learn German but you live in a place that no one speaks German, then you can just have a weekly meeting or even a daily habit where you go onto one of those websites where you can just speak with other native speakers and just make that a part of your daily or your weekly routine. And so that we'll link back to that other podcast there in the show notes. And then before you go, I was just curious if you've seen any changes in your area with the number of foreigners moving there since the pandemic. So you've been there for five years, so a couple years before the pandemic, during the pandemic, after the pandemic, have you seen an influx in people from other countries that are working remotely?  

Joiner    00:57:11    Yeah. For example, when I first applied for a call center here in Columbia, the man like doing the interview was Venezuelan and they're hiring like many foreign people. I've seen like people from Peru, people from Costa Rica because we have a a call center here in Colombia, but they have a site also in Costa Rica and El Salvador. So they are always like doing some exchanges with these people. But most likely you will see Venezuelan in Colombian working in this industry.  

Kristin:    00:57:46    But people like Dustin, for example, my podcast listener Dustin who introduced us, he's spending half the year in the United States and half the year in Colombia. Have you seen more people like him since the pandemic that are working remotely but they're just coming to Columbia for fun?  

Joiner    00:58:06    Yeah, I've seen many people. But now after the pandemic I only see them in some places like in Monserrate, which is a place here in Bogotá where many foreign come. But before I used to see more people like Dustin and people coming from the states or from other countries, like for tourists of course the pandemic influenced a lot the the situation. And now I would say that we have 60% of people we had before the pandemic.  

Kristin:    00:58:36    Okay. So it's going down.  

Joiner    00:58:39    It's going down, but it's again going up because right now we don't have the same restrictions.  

Kristin:    00:58:45    Right. You mentioned that your school is helping people with getting student visas to learn Spanish. Can you talk a little bit for people who aren't aware of the Columbia student visa, how to get it and how long people can stay there versus just the 90 days with their passport?  

Joiner    00:59:06    Yeah, I know a little bit about this. This is something that my boss is doing for foreign students. He has all the information, he knows how to process all these visas for students. I know that they can stay for more than this 90 days, sometimes six months and even more than that. And they have all the opportunities even to work here. But this is a question that would most likely be answered by Andrew. So taking advantage of this, This academy also offers that service and you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, on Google, and you just have to type Spanglish 360 Academy. And when you go to our website, that's a service that will be offered on the website.  

Kristin:    00:59:51    Okay, great. So for people who are interested, if you want to Google this Columbia Student Visa, I think it's the M, is it the M visa or the M9 visa? The Migrant M visa for the Student Visa. We'll link to that in the show notes. Will also of course link to Spanglish360 and to the other podcast episode on learning a language. So thank you so much joiner for coming on the show today and, and sharing a bit about your experience as a traveler, as a multilingual person, and uh, giving us your tips for adapting to other languages and cultures. We really appreciate it and we'll see you online and everybody out there, we'll see you again next week.  

Joiner    01:00:42    Thank you so much for this opportunity and I hope that you have a wonderful rest of the year trips and everything.

Kristin:    01:00:49    Thank you.  

Joiner    01:00:51    Bye-bye.  

Kristin:    01:00:54    I hope you enjoyed today's episode and remember that you can try the Solis international wifi hotspot by using our link in the show notes or by going to travelingwithKristin.com/wifi and bring your internet with you to more than 135 countries. That's with our link at the top of the show notes or at travelingwithKristin.com/wifi