How to Start an Online Business with Facebook Ads Entrepreneur Gavin Bell

Kristin:    00:00:12    Hey guys. Welcome back to another episode of Badass Digital Nomads. I'm here with Facebook ad and entrepreneur extraordinaire Gavin Bell, who's with us from Scotland right now, just a couple days before Christmas. And Gavin is basically one of the UK's leading Facebook advertising consultants. He's worked with companies and entrepreneurs all over the world. He is a public speaker and he is been on a lot of really popular podcasts like Entrepreneur on Fire, which is where I first heard of him a few years ago. And he's pretty astute at, uh, Facebook and social media in general, Facebook ads. He's also a blogger. He has a lot of videos that have gone viral. He's gonna talk to us about how that happened and why he does things like going sledding in the winter in Scotland without a sled. Um, but he's also gonna talk to us about how he started his own business and where he sees the future of the nine to five going. I saw a video from him lately on Instagram where he was ranting about the nine to five being archaic, and I knew I had to have him on the show.  

Gavin:    00:01:24    Right? Is it the end of the nine to five? That boring going into an office environment, wearing a suit, wearing a tie, having to be smart, having to be professional. 

Podcast Interview:

Kristin:    00:01:33    So Welcome Gavin.  

Gavin:    00:01:35    Thanks for having me. What an intro–  

Kristin:    00:01:38    <laugh>. Great. So, um, yeah, I guess first things first, let's just get a little bit about your background for people who might not be familiar with you. And I'll just say as an aside that, um, I remember listening to, so I've listened to many podcasts in my day. I'm sure many of us have. And I actually heard your episode of Entrepreneur on Fire years ago. I don't know when you were on that show, but I just downloaded a bunch of podcasts and I was on a road trip through Costa Rica where I used to live. And for whatever reason, that podcast stuck out and I later followed you on social media. So I don't know how long ago that was, but do you remember,  

Gavin:    00:02:22    Uh, the Entrepreneur on Fire podcast was, I think it was about a year ago. I think it was about a year ago.  

Kristin:    00:02:31    Oh, Okay. It feels like it was longer. Yeah. Oh, maybe, maybe it was LA last winter I was in Costa Rica, so maybe that was it.  

Gavin:    00:02:38    Yeah, I can't, I can't actually really remember. Um, I think it was around a year ago, but it's quite cool 'cause um, John, John the Dumas was in Scotland in Edinburgh just a few months ago, so we got to hang out for a couple of days and Oh, you did? I showed him around Scotland and so yeah, that was good fun.  

Kristin:    00:02:54    Nice. So how did you, how old are you again?  

Gavin:    00:02:58    I'm 24.  

Kristin:    00:03:00    So you're 24. You are flying all over the world. You're a public speaker, you're an entrepreneur. How did this happen? <laugh> Um, when did you start this entrepreneurial journey and um, did you know that you were gonna do something like this when you were in high school or university? Did you go to uni? Can you give us a little bit of your background?  

Gavin:    00:03:22    Yeah, of course. Um, it's been a whirlwind, that's for sure, but it kind of starts up in a place called the Shetland Islands, which is as far north as you can go in the uk It's a tiny group of islands where about 20,000 people live. And I grew up there kind of showing entrepreneurial symptoms from a very, very young age. So I was kind of, when I'd go on family holidays, I'd buy fake Armani belts and sell 'em on eBay. I was cutting neighbors grass, I was doing everything I could just to make, make a little bit money. And, um, that kind of continued throughout school. And as I got close to the kinda school leaving age, everyone was like, right time to go to university and then go get a job. And I was like, no, that does not sound like what I want to do.  

Gavin:    00:04:07    I don't wanna go to university for four years, get a massive debt, and then go live in the nine to five rat race, race, um, race. And so I decided, uh, I was gonna leave the Shetlands of the islands that I'd lived in for pretty much my whole life and moved down to mainland uk. And I found this, uh, one year program, which was, uh, where you had to go with a business idea and set it up as part of the year. And it was kind of a learning by doing. So I went down there with a business idea, and when you're learning about marketing, you're marketing that business. When you're learning about pitching, you're pitching that business. I set up a business when I was 18. I was <inaudible> to corporate environments to run fitness sessions with their staff, uh, kind of corporate wellbeing.  

Gavin:    00:04:53    And that business did okay, but it, but it, in the end, it didn't really make too much money. And so I decided to, to stop that business. And I realized at the time that working with a lot of personal trainers, a lot of them were terrible at marketing, just weren't getting this marketing thing right. And that's when I decided, um, about three or four years ago that I was gonna help personal trainers with their marketing. And over the last few years that's kind of honed in on Facebook ads and now started working with pretty much everyone other than personal trainers. Um, and yeah, as my brand has grown and has created more lots of video content, more people are inviting me to speak on stages, and that means that you get access to bigger and bigger companies. And it's just been this crazy journey where three years ago I was just a guy with an idea and, and now it's turned into to quite a successful business.  

Kristin:    00:05:44    Wow. I love that story. And I, I definitely know what you're talking about with the personal trainers, but not just that, but so many business owners who are taught to be specialists in their business, but then they're not taught how to be in business for their business, um, especially doctors, dentists, things like that come to mind. So I think there's a really a big opportunity for people who want to help people specialize on their craft, which might be filling a cavity or personal training or whatever that is. And that doesn't mean that those people need to be really good at marketing. And so I think it's really cool that you did this step by step, um, because that's really how everything works, I guess, and in the, in the midst of everything, all of these unexpected things happen and you became an expert in building your own brand.  

Gavin:    00:06:34    Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, I think it's, uh, like personal trainers, I mean, everyone I've really worked with, they're all amazing at what they do, but it means that they maybe haven't got the skills in, in marketing, which means there's an obvious little plugin gap that anyone that's wanting to start in business can go and, and help businesses with, with their marketing. And it, I feel very grateful for the fact that I can work and live anywhere I want as long as I've got my laptop and a wifi connection. And you can work with brands all over the world helping them with their marketing or whatever it may be that you're helping them with from a laptop, which is crazy when people live in a, a world where nine to five in a suit and tie in an office is still the norm. You've got this other, you've got a life, people live working that nine to five, but they don't realize that there's opportunity and potential for them to sit at home in their pajamas working from a laptop, making more money if they want to.  

Kristin:    00:07:32    Yeah. I actually just saw a tweet. Um, there's this guy named, his Twitter name is Levels and I'm drawing a blank. Oh, Pieter Levels. Have you heard of him?  

Gavin:    00:07:42    I haven't, no.  

Kristin:    00:07:43    He is like a big in the digital nomad world because he has a website called Nomad List and he is kind of a serial entrepreneur and he posts a lot of interesting stuff. And I, I actually have, I've been writing a lot of blogs this year and in one of them I'm talking about how people don't realize that their value that they're getting paid for and their salary is actually much higher than what the company is paying them for. And this was a couple months ago that I was drafting this article, and then a couple days ago, uh, levels tweeted a breakdown by industry of how much the average employee, how much revenue the average employee generates for the company that they work for. And when you get to like ExxonMobil and these companies, it's like each employee, no matter what the company is on these Fortune 100 or 500 companies, they're worth like 10 to 20 to 30 times their salary. Like one employee could be worth $1.5 million in revenue to a company like ExxonMobil. And I think people don't realize that their salary is, they're getting, getting paid their salary because they're generating profit Yeah. For the company.  

Gavin:    00:09:00    It's crazy.  

Kristin:    00:09:01    Yeah,  

Gavin:    00:09:02    I mean it's just people are are resources at the end of the day, profit and loss, are we making back what we're investing in you and you're, that's your salary? Are you making us that money back? Yes or no and how these big corporates are doing it.  

Kristin:    00:09:15    Yeah. And how did you have this insight as a teenager that you didn't want that? Because it seems like it's still an uphill battle in educating people that they don't have to have the nine to five. And we'll definitely play that video that I saw on your Instagram. But, um, how do you think you had that insight at such a young age and why is the nine to five dead and why do people need to know about it now?  

Gavin:    00:09:41    Yeah, I mean I think that that was a very natural thing for me where I think it probably came from the fact that I just don't like being told what to do. So I've always had this thing where I just don't like being told what to do. I like doing things off my own back. Um, and, and so for me being told that I need to turn up to a certain place at a certain time and work for a certain number of hours wearing a certain, um, type of clothing just doesn't really sit right with me. I don't want to do that. I wanna wake up when I want, do what I want, wear what I want, meet who I want and do everything on my terms. And so working in a job just didn't appeal to me in the slightest because it didn't allow me to do what I just naturally wanted to do as a, as a kid.  

Gavin:    00:10:27    And I guess maybe the difference for me there is I just didn't have, because I was quite a stubborn, strong-willed child, I didn't really fall into that. Well, it's just a normal thing to do, so I'll just go and do it anyway. Um, and, and I think the nine to five is dead based on just what I've said. I I, I don't, I honestly don't think that taking someone, telling them what to wear, taking them into an office to work nine to five, having them travel an hour to the office and back is the most productive way for your staff to live and work. And productive staff are gonna be productive if they enjoy what they do and they don't have any resentment to work. Like if, if you're, if you get to a Sunday and you're dreading your Monday, you're not gonna be productive on that Monday.  

Gavin:    00:11:16    Yeah. Whereas if you get to the Sunday and you're like, I cannot wait for Monday. I've got it all planned out. I know my goals for the week, boom, then you're gonna be productive. And so I think the nine to five needs to change because it's simply not the most productive way for businesses to run. And, and the old school brands and companies and banks and things that are making people work these hours will die because new banks will come along and say, Hey, they're flexible working. Like I'm, I've moved all my banking business and personal from big corporate banks that have been here forever to these tech banks. Like the new banks are just all done from an app and these big banks are gonna die because people are doing that, but they're also not looking after their staff and giving them staff what they wanna do.  

Kristin:    00:12:02    Yeah. I actually think that corporations have underestimated the remote work revolution. And I don't think that they're ready for it really, in any sense of the word. I think we're going to see kind of a bottom up disruption of the entire global business environment. And I don't think anyone's really talking about it. Like people are talking about remote work. Yes. But I think it's going to happen very quickly and it's going to seemingly happen overnight because once a critical mass of people realize that they're worth at least as much as, or more than their salary, and that they have skills that can be done online, they don't have to commute to work, they don't have to go sit in the same room as other people on computers before, then overnight everyone's gonna be like, well, why not me? Once they see enough examples of people like you and I who are doing that, and this is actually a really good example of being motivated to do something on a Monday. Like it's Monday morning, I'm in Bueno Aires, you are in in Scotland, and I got up early. Like, we're voluntarily having this conversation because we like what we do, we care about it, and we're motivated to like get up in the morning and record a video about it to share it with other people. And that's not something that is going to necessarily come naturally when you're working for, when a giant company and you're just basically one of 10,000 employees.  

Gavin:    00:13:32    Yeah. You're just a number. You're not, you're not someone that actually can not, not to say make a difference 'cause we've proven that employees do make a difference based on the return on investment, but you, when it's your own thing. In fact, I'm not even gonna talk about kinda entrepreneurialism. 'cause I think not everyone is destined to be a, an entrepreneur and work for themselves, but just giving staff, employees, people the freedom and the trust because it all comes down to trust at the end of the day. Yeah. If you, if you think that you're, that you can't bring in flexible working or whatever type of working, you want to call it remote working because your staff wouldn't be as productive, then it's not a staff problem or a productive point of view. It's your problem that you don't trust your staff enough to be productive. And if the case is that your staff just won't be productive, then you're hiring the wrong people. It's either a hiring issue or a trust issue at the, at the bottom of it.  

Kristin:    00:14:29    Definitely. I, I also wrote an article on that and I was wondering where this mindset came from in the first place. And actually the whole origins of the concept of telecommuting, of course, people have been working from home since the beginning of time, um, thousands of years ago. But the concept of telecommuting to work came around in like the sixties and seventies and, and it was kind of squashed for political reasons and it never recovered. So the kind of fake fear induced reasons, um, that the media and and politicians were saying about why telecommuting didn't work back decades ago was because of those reasons. Because they wouldn't know. Companies wouldn't know if their employees were working and blah, blah blah. And so everyone got scared and, and didn't do it or didn't implement it on, on the scale that was possible. But now of course with technology, there's so many ways around that.  

Kristin:    00:15:25    Um, and you can obviously tell if people are working now and there's so many ways to communicate. So, um, actually how, how are, is your work life balance, so to speak, or, so you're basically, you work remotely, but this is what I want to clarify for people. So to be a digital nomad doesn't mean that you have to live out of a suitcase. Um, to be a digital nomad means that you can work from anywhere with an internet connection. You can just work from home in your hometown, you can be a remote employee. Um, so what is kind of your personal setup? How much time do you spend at home and why do you choose to be at home? Because I do this too. I keep a home base every so often in the us, um, versus people who travel 24/7. Uh, why do you choose to remain at home when you could be living on the beach in Thailand? Because that's not right for everybody.  

Gavin:    00:16:23    Yeah, totally. So I mean, for me, I have my home, I've got my, I've got an office that I rent. Um, and also I like to go to different coffee shops. So I, for me, I'm someone that kind of needs, and I've found I need to have different environments as, uh, kind of inspirational stimulus. Uh, so sometimes if I'm working from home all week, I might get a little bit bored and my product productive levels go down. And so I need to take myself out of the house and go to the office or out of the house and go to a coffee shop or something just to change my environment. Um, I always think like, yes, I could be traveling, going to Thailand or Bali seems to be where everyone goes. But I guess a couple of things, hold me back from that one. Um, my girlfriend obviously lives in Edinburgh and, and she works in nine to five right now.  

Gavin:    00:17:20    And so I don't really want to be, go be traveling on my own and, and have her staying, staying here on her own. Um, and two, I just generally love Edinburgh. The city that I live in is great. Um, building a, a really good business right now here. And so I don't feel like things need to change. Um, and also I'm not somebody that likes beaches anyway, so sitting on the beach is like kind of my worst nightmare getting sand in my MacBook and, and things. I think al also, uh, another thing is like I get to do a fair bit of traveling anyway with speaking. So in the last couple of months I've been in Prague, Milan, um, the US and a couple of different places in the uk. So I do a fair bit of traveling anyway with the speaking side of things. Um, and I guess what I'm trying to do with the business is set myself up where if I do, if I am traveling, then I'm getting someone else to pay for it. So I'm, I'm traveling based on speaking or traveling based on meeting clients, for example, rather than me take putting up the cash to go traveling. Um, so it's just, it's just a way that kind of seems to work for me. Whether it changes in the future, I'm not sure. Um, but it seems to be working for me right now.  

Kristin:    00:18:34    Yeah, that's the beauty of remote work is that you can decide when you want to travel, when and if you wanna travel. And after having traveled myself for so many years, I really appreciate having like my own desk, my own office, my monitor. And you can be so much more productive when you, when you have a home base. Um, I used to live in Nicaragua in this house that looked like straight out of a postcard. It was like a palapa with palm tree roof and it was on the beach on this cliff with the ocean view. And in photos, well this was 2008, so in very poor quality digital photos, <laugh>, it looked great, it looked amazing. But in real life the roof was leaking, there was no internet, the power went off every day. Um, there was like dust and wind and all sorts of stuff getting into my laptop.  

Kristin:    00:19:28    It was hot. There were bugs. Like there's all these other things that people don't necessarily think about. So I think it's, it is really important, especially being like to veteran, uh, travelers or online business owners, speakers. Like these are the things that Gavin and I have learned <laugh> over the years that that work for us. So it's just important for anyone watching to find what works for you. And you wanna go to Bali for a month or so, that's cool, but you don't have to always live out of a suitcase and always be in a tropical place as well. Um, so yeah, so--  

Gavin:    00:20:02    True. So true. I mean, I think, um, there's, it's maybe not a pressure, but there's almost like a, right now the whole digital nomad. Yeah. It's kind of like you see so many people, um, these days who are kind of in this digital nomad world going to places like b where it's super cheap, then they get a nice looking, um, mansion or whatever just so they can take the Instagram shots and sell their courses because they're in this really nice mansion. But in fact it's costing them the same amount as it would cost for a one bed flat in London or something. Um, and I feel like with that just means that some people feel like, oh, I need to be doing this traveling thing, but it's not actually right for everyone. Just being a digital nomad is kind of working where you want when you want, whether that's at home, in bed, in valley, on the beach, the choice is yours. That's why it's so great.  

Kristin:    00:20:54    Yeah. And what, um, tell us some of the great things about Scotland and in your, your vlogging experience because um, I know that you also have a YouTube channel and you've been blogging about Scotland specifically, and some of those videos went viral. And then how are you using blogging now in your online business? Um, it's kind of similar to what I'm doing, so I think it would be really cool to share that with people who are thinking of building their own brands.  

Gavin:    00:21:25    Yeah, of course. So like two, so two years ago, um, I basically decided that I needed to get into this video game. People were telling me to create video. I knew I had to create video, um, but fear held me back basically. I didn't want to look like that idiot that's walking down the street filming the stuff. So I thought I would've looked, but people actually just don't care. Um, and so I decided, so I started about two years ago, started kind of documenting my life as a young entrepreneur. I would take a day of my week and just film it and share it with everyone on like Facebook and YouTube. And then one day I decided that I would film my weekend. So rather than filming, um, a business day, I'd film my day where I was just out hanging out with friends or whatever.  

Gavin:    00:22:06    And that was in Scotland kind of outdoors going for a hike. And um, that video got picked up by local news 'cause we had some really cool drone shots in it. And online it performed so much better than any of my other videos. So it got like thousands of views, verse hundreds of views. And I was like, Hmm, okay, that's interesting. Let's try that again. And again, I posted it, I posted another Scotland video the week after thousands of views, a week after thousands of view, a week after thousands of views. And um, so I started like doing more. 'cause I was like, okay, views, that's great. I'm getting tons of views. Let's keep doing this Scottish stuff and churning it out. And some video, I think I've got three or four videos hit over 200,000 views. Last year on Facebook alone, all my videos were seen like 1.8 million times, which is crazy.  

Kristin:    00:22:59    Wow.  

Gavin:    00:23:01    But, and it was amazing and like brands were approaching me for brand deals and um, it was really fun experience, got on TV and, and all this cool stuff. But at the same time that a part of me was going, but this isn't related to your business, this is like Scotland. You've essentially, because I did it so much, I got like addicted to the views and I got addicted to the engagement and these viral videos that were happening. And, um, I basically, I, I got, so I got addicted to that sort of like, engagement. And what ended up happening was my brand people started to see my brand become like the Scottish outdoors guy as opposed to the Facebook ads guy or the speaker or the entrepreneur. And that became an issue because although what I was filming was like 10% of my week, like my Saturday morning, and that's what I was sharing, perception is reality.  

Gavin:    00:23:56    And people just thought all I did was go out outdoors in Scotland. And so about three, four months ago I was like, okay, I need to stop doing this because I felt like I was, I had two split brands. I was trying to be this Facebook guy. I was also trying to be this, um, kind of Scottish outdoors guy. So the Scottish content was great in that it got really big views, viral hits. People were starting to know me from that. I was getting approached in the street, brands were coming to me and it was, it was fun. And it was, it was cool. And I could have kept on going, but all I could have done with that brand was become like a Scottish tour guide or something. It was nothing I wanted to do. And, uh, about four months ago I was like, okay, I need to, rather than doing this Facebook thing plus this Scottish thing, I need to just go back, take the hit and just go back to the business content because that's what makes the money.  

Gavin:    00:24:48    That's what my brand needs to be, uh, online as opposed to this Scottish thing. Um, and so about four months ago I decided to do that. And since then I've stopped a Scottish content. I, I basically posted a video saying, look, I know a lot of you're here for the Scottish content that is gonna be stopping now. And so feel free to unsubscribe, feel free to unfollow me if, if you don't want to see what I'm up to in the future. Um, but this is the direction I'm going in and this is why. And it's taken a massive hit. It's taken a massive hit on the views and the engagement and things I've, I've got. But at the same time, the audience size for, for the marketing videos and the business videos is much smaller. So I can't expect to get 300,000 views on a, on a marketing video and that's fine. Um, it's 300 people that are potential customers. It's much more valuable to me as a business than 300,000 people that are just watching me 'cause they like the outdoorsy type content.  

Kristin:    00:25:45    Yeah, I think that there's so much to unpack there because vanity metrics are such a huge problem in my opinion, with online businesses. Like I have a company, um, before this one, well, I still run that company called Poker Refugees and it's never had a big social media presence, but it's been a successful profitable business for seven years. And it really doesn't matter how many Instagram likes you have or things like that. And I think if people are spending 30 minutes or an hour a day on like structuring or crafting the best Instagram posts, unless their goal is to become like an Instagram influencer or something. And this goes for Facebook and YouTube as well. It's like if you spent an hour a day on deep work or some type of intentional learning or some other revenue generating activity for your business and some specific application or skill, it would pay off so much more in your bank account.  

Kristin:    00:26:46    And um, yeah. And so that, that's something I've learned this year as well with, um, I think there is a balance between letting your personality come through and kind of posting some fun videos, um, but also keeping it professional, um, because people are hiring you as a speaker as well for who you are as a person and as well as your results. But I have seen the same thing because I have, my travel channel is Traveling with Kristin and I'm posting this video on that channel and like this video will get a fraction of the number of views as my Oktober fest video <laugh> where I'm like running around in aderal drinking beer, um, or whatever. So that's fun too. But I'm not always drinking beer in Germany or sailing the coast of Croatia or doing all of the fun glamorous travel stuff. Like this is part of the day-to-day, that of, of the digital nomad lifestyle. But um, also I think it's sometimes those videos can just be a bridge to bringing people into learning about what you do as well in Facebook ads. So I hope that you still do a couple videos here and there. Um. 

Gavin:    00:28:00    Oh a hundred percent my, I think it, I think the important thing I've learned is it's about the narrative that you tell long term. Yeah. So with the Scottish content it was, I'm a Scottish outdoors guy. That was the narrative that I told. Whereas the narrative that I need to tell now or go back to telling is I'm a business owner that runs a Facebook ads consultancy and I'm a speaker, but yeah, I'm still a guy that likes to go outside and go outdoors. That's, that's not just a, something I've found me that I've just like left and forgotten. So I think introducing that into the narrative of being a business owner is vastly different to the narrative of just being the Scottish outdoors guy that happens to have a business. Yeah. Because I mean like, like I say, it's, my life has not changed whatsoever in terms of I'm still running a business 90% of the time still going outdoors 10% of the time. But before I was filming the 10% and sharing that and I wasn't sharing the 90% of running the business, that's still, that's not changed. Um, it's just what people see online changes and like I say, perception is reality. People just, people think what they see online is true.  

Kristin:    00:29:13    Let's talk a little bit about Facebook ads then. Um, because you do teach people how to use Facebook ads, um, how to invest something like $1 or one pound in ads and then get 20x your investment or your return on that. Why are Facebook ads important and how are people commonly misusing them? Because I see that Facebook kind of pushes their ads in a vanity metric sort of way to boost posts and get likes and things like this. So, um, yeah. Why, why are Facebook ads important for online business owners to know about and what is the main thing that they're doing wrong with them?  

Gavin:    00:29:55    Yeah, so I mean the main thing, the main reason that they're important is because they give you the ability, unlike the majority of other advertising platforms, to pinpoint a specific message to a specific person at a specific time, which is just marketing 101. So I can target at any one time people in a specific location that have specific interests of a specific gauge with an offer that I think they're going to be, they're going to like. Which if you get that right audience and the right offer, it's a no brainer. That's, that's advertising and marketing 101, you've hit a gold mine, you get the right person, the right message at the right time. Yeah. Facebook allows you to do that and it allows you to do it right now at a price which is cheaper than any other platform I've seen. So I have seen and myself businesses built from Facebook ads alone where they build a landing page, they build an offer and a product, and they run ads to that landing page and people buy it and they make money, make money.  

Gavin:    00:30:56    So it's, it's, it's, it's so important. And I think for me, I am very much of the kind of marketing type where all I, all I really care about is kind of human psychology and how human psychology works. How do we buy, how do we build relationships, how do we consume content? And Facebook just allows you to build a relationship, build trust with someone and sell something to someone in a really like ethical way in which how psychology works. So I could create a video, a piece of video content that's free, tons of value and share it to people for free, ask for nothing in return. They consume it, they enjoy it, they use it. And then I retarget people that have watched that video with an ad that says, Hey look, I know you watched that video. Maybe you, you're interested in this offer.  

Gavin:    00:31:45    By the time that they see the offer, they know who I am, they trust me, they like me, et cetera. So they're much more likely to buy. So it just, I mean if you're a business owner that's looking to get an offer in front of the right people, then you can't ignore Facebook ads. And I think the biggest misconception that I see, or the problem that I see most people making is trying to sell something to someone that doesn't know who they are. So a lot of business owners I see will create an ad with like 20% off or just a random offer and they'll just boost that, that offer out to strangers, randomers that don't know who they are and expect the flood gates to open. And it just doesn't work like that because online and offline are no different. And that is just like going down the street and shouting, buy my stuff 20% off.  

Gavin:    00:32:37    Nobody's, nobody's going to approach you and buy it, so why would someone do it on Facebook? So we need to, so that's where I talk about and, and teach people how to create content that builds trust and engages people. That's why I create video content. 'cause you're building trust, you're getting, when the amount of people that I meet and they say, GI feel like I already know you 'cause they've watched all my videos before is is insane. And it's so, so powerful because if they feel like they know me, might give them a product or an offer that is right for them at the right time, they're gonna buy it. I don't have to do the heavy lifting or, or any sales work.  

Kristin:    00:33:12    Totally. I I just came from the Nomad cruise where we took 500 digital nomads or aspiring nomads and remote workers and sailed from Barcelona to Brazil and there were so many people on the boat that I didn't know, but they came up to me and they said the same thing like, I've seen your videos or I'm in your group. And um, they're like, you're the same in real life as you are in your videos. And even one of the That's cool. <laugh> Yeah. One of my friends who, uh, we don't work together but we've known each other now for over a year and we talk about collaborating on some things and he mentioned that as well. He's like, you know, Kristin and I've hung out with you three times in three different countries and you are you. And um, I took it as a compliment actually. So I, I think we do sometimes underestimate the power of video once we get used to doing it because like you, I had no idea what I was doing. Maybe I still don't. But, um, you just have to start somewhere and just be yourself and people that will resonate with the right people for your audience.  

Gavin:    00:34:18    Yeah, a hundred percent embrace that messy embrace the fact that you're probably not gonna be very good. You're probably gonna suck when you first start, but you start and you see what happens and you learn from it and you keep going and you keep going. I would never have expected when I first started creating video that a year later 2 million people would be watching my content never in a million years. And I, I'm still quite frankly, I'm like, what the hell <laugh>. Um, so you're, you're totally right. Like, and and also one of the things with video is kind of what you said is you don't know who's watching. Yeah. You simply don't know who's watching your video. So you might have the CEO of a Fortune 100 company watching your video content. You don't know, just 'cause they're not leaving a message or liking your videos doesn't mean they're not watching, but they know who you are. And at the right time they could get in touch.  

Kristin:    00:35:11    Yeah. And that could be, 

Gavin:    00:35:12     That could be a life-changing email that they send you.  

Kristin:    00:35:16    Yeah, actually I was just thinking about that because um, I just hit a thousand subscribers on YouTube and I was thinking of how many people that actually is because I think people get caught up in the numbers. They're like, oh yeah, I subscribers or whatever. And it's like, um, over 1500 people in my group and a thousand over a thousand YouTube subscribers. And if you think of a music festival or a conference or something, if you're speaking in front of even 500 people, like that's huge. Or think of a, like the biggest music festivals with like 50,000 people or 80,000 people. Like if you have, you know, 10,000 or 30,000 subscribers, like that is a massive music festival worth people. And I think that people sometimes lose sight of like, sometimes you and I probably speak to groups of like 20 people or 50 people and that is still very, um, impressionable and it's very powerful and valuable. So I think sometimes people underestimate the number of eyes watching things online. It's still real people behind those, uh, cell phones and laptops.  

Gavin:    00:36:35    Yeah, totally. And I, and that's something I say all the time actually on stage, which is when you're, whenever you put an ad out or a video or whatever, it's real people Yeah. That are, that are watching your stuff or seeing your ad. It's not just numbers. Just 'cause you see numbers doesn't mean it's not real people. Um, and people are always like, oh yeah, so maybe I should do things slightly differently then. Yeah. <laugh> yeah, you're communicating to real people offline is no different to online. So  

Kristin:    00:37:03    You know who else says that? I think you never know who's watching is Gary V Yeah,  

Kristin:    00:37:08    Yeah. It's like you, he said, I think I saw a clip. He was like, yeah, you just need Drake or somebody's manager. Like it depends on who, who your audience is. Right. But talking to some guy selling like basketball shoes or something, he's like, you just need the right person to see the right thing and you never know what's gonna go viral or what one person is going to see and people are watching For sure. Um, so well I have another question about the, the Facebook ads and then also Gary V. 'cause I know that you are just in New York and you are trying to, uh, meet up with Gary V. So, um, just to kind of wrap up on Facebook ads, can anyone have a Facebook ad and offer like from pretty much any industry or are there just specific people that you work with? Like who is it for?  

Gavin:    00:37:59    Uh, Facebook ads can work for anyone really, unless you're doing a kind of industry such as cannabis or like gambling or cryptocurrency. There's quite, there's quite a lot of kind of policies that Facebook have around those types of things. Um, politics now obviously, um, but for the grand scheme of things, for the people that are watching or listening to this, like Facebook ads can work for you if you, if you've got a business where you are trying to build trust and trying to get a message in front of someone, whether you're B2B, B2C, big small Facebook ads or Instagram ads can work for you.  

Kristin:    00:38:37    Okay, cool. Yeah, just to clear that up for people because sometimes they might think like, well, you know, I use Facebook for my friends and family, but it's not for me for my business. But I think it's something that everyone should look into to see if it, it could work for them. And we'll link to your website and everything at the end. Yeah. So do you wanna do any shout out to Gary V or what, what um, what did you wanna meet up with him about in New York?  

Gavin:    00:39:04    Yeah. Well I, I was, I was, I knew I was gonna be in New York and um, obviously Gary's there and so I've got a few friends that have met him. I, I've met him twice, um, before at like a, well, one that has book signing and then, uh, during that same event I met him in a hotel kind of by chance. And um, so I thought when I was in New York, I'd reach out to them and, and see if we could get a meeting and, and we were going to, they, they, they let me, they said, yes, just give us a shout when you're in New York. But when I was in New York then they were busy. And so next time they've said in New York, then I can hopefully go to VaynerMedia and make a video in there. But yeah, Gary's someone I've watched for a long time. I don't, I don't actually watch his content as much anymore. Not because I, I don't like it, but just 'cause I don't have time to sit and watch a seven and a half hour vlog <laugh>, um, which he posted the other day, which is really interesting. No.  

Kristin:    00:40:00    I didn't see that yet.  

Gavin:    00:40:02    Yeah, so he's, he's tested posting a seven and a half hour daily v on, on YouTube. Wow. Yesterday or two days ago. Uh, which is really interesting. I'm excited to see how that does, 'cause obviously YouTube seemed to be enjoying longer form content slightly more. And so I'm excited to see how super long content does. Yeah. But you, you someone that kind of in the early days of the business, I consumed everything he said and have read his books and a lot of the stuff he says kind of resonates with me in terms of it's about building an audience. It's about building trust, relationships with people, um, and then making an offer to them when you've got an offer that you think is right and is is good for them,  

Kristin:    00:40:45    What kind of advice you have to people watching who are maybe still stuck at the nine to five, but they know that they have skills that are valuable at the companies that they work for. Maybe they want to, um, work remotely or go out and do their own thing, but they're afraid because like us, they didn't know where to start. So, um, what kind of advice do you have to somebody who's thinking about it but their friends and family don't understand, like no one relates to these ideas that they have and what should they do?  

Gavin:    00:41:17    Yeah. Um, first of all, don't stress about it and don't get yourself worked up and that you have to be doing this straight away. Like, it's gonna take time and that's fine. And that's part of the fun, that's part of the exciting journey. I, I worked in a call center for, uh, six months or something to pay the bills and it, but it actually worked really well 'cause I could work on the business during the day and then I worked in the call center in the evenings and that paid the bills and it was a horrible job, but it was part of the journey. And I now look back at those days quite fondly as like the very start of this whole business thing. And it, it was horrible at the time, but now I look back and I'm like, oh, that was actually quite fun.  

Gavin:    00:41:53    Um, yeah, so don't get stressed. And I think one of the biggest things holding people back probably is that friends and family, family aspect where people just don't seem to really get it. And the norm is to work in a nine to five job. If that's the case, you just need to start surrounding yourself with better people or surrounding yourself, not necessarily better people, but surround yourself with people that agree and are in on this idea that you want to go on. So if you want to work, you want to quit your nine to five and run your own business, start going to networking meetings or start reaching out to people in your local area that are doing what you want to do and start hanging around with them and, and just become friends with them. Like when I first moved down to Edinburgh, where I live now, I didn't know one person that, not one person at all. And which was quite refreshing 'cause it meant I could pick and choose who my friends were gonna be and yeah. And surround myself with really cool people that are doing the exact same things and encourage my stupid ideas. And, and you're just gonna have to do that for yourself. Like if you, if you go and embark on this new journey of setting up your yourself or uh, leaving a nine to five job, your life is gonna change so dramatically for the better.  

Kristin:    00:43:09    Thank you so much. That's really great advice for sure. I agree with all of that. Um, and then if people want to get more information on the, the courses and the programs that you offer regarding Facebook ads and then of course follow your Crazy adventures and the Scottish wilderness, where can they go?  

Gavin:    00:43:29    Yeah, head over to my website, mrgavinbell.com or Instagram at Mr. Gavin Bell. I'm, I'm at Mr. Gavin Bell on every single platform, but Instagram and my website's probably the best place to, to go.  

Kristin:    00:43:43    Awesome. Well thank you so much Gavin for joining us during this holiday season and everybody out there, what do you think, have you ever been afraid to start your own thing or would you have started your own online business at 18? And what, from our conversation with Gavin, do you think that you could apply to your own life? Whether it's your personal life, your professional life, or plans for your future? Let us know in the comments, give this video a thumbs up. And Gary V if you're watching this, which you should be <laugh>, let Gavin come hang out with you again at the office. <laugh>, I'm gonna check out that seven and a half hour blog when I have time. Right,  

Gavin:    00:44:25    Exactly.