How to Overcome Depression, Find Happiness, and Get Jobs You Aren’t Qualified For With John Gorman

Sneak Peek:

Kristin:    00:00:00    You don't have to go anywhere to have like this spirit of freedom. And you don't have to be trapped if you don't allow yourself to be trapped. 

Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests.

Kristin:    00:00:34    Hi everyone. I'm Kristin from Traveling with Kristin. And in today's episode of Badass Digital Nomads, focused on mental health, we talk with John Gorman about how he went from being homeless in Austin, Texas, living in motels, hand handling and singing in bars for money to becoming one of the top writers on medium and a ghostwriter for politicians, including Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. We also talk about how to 10x your income, overcome anxiety and imposter syndrome, and even get jobs you might not be fully qualified for. We also discussed John's suicide attempt, how to survive quarantine alone and how to cope if you feel like you aren't far enough ahead in life. Plus what to do if the pandemic messed up your plans of traveling or living abroad. And of, of course, plenty of stories and tips for living a happier, more satisfied, successful, and meaningful life. Enjoy. 

Podcast Interview:

Kristin: So you're in Austin, was it everything that you thought it would be? How were you supporting yourself at that time? Did you have a job or just the music?

John:    00:01:54    So I had a job, so the reason I could move to Austin was because my job was remote. I could work from anywhere. And I think a lot of the reason I didn't move for the first three years I had the job was mostly out of fear. Um, fear that I would fail. And that came from an inner monologue that is harsh and abusive and frankly is inundated with lies that aren't ones that I originally told myself. And, um, but after, you know, after deciding to move, it happened really quickly. Like I I, when I went to Austin, like the first day I was in Austin, I signed a lease and I just flew home. And then three weeks later I came back, but I announced I was moving to Austin two months before I signed. I basically just did it. So I was like, I'm moving to Austin.  

John:    00:03:01    Right?

Kristin:  That worked.

John:    End of the year. So I did that. And so I had a job. Um, you know, I was doing operations management for a very small ad agency. I wasn't making like any money at all, but I was doing it. And, um, then I left that job for a marketing director position at a publishing company. Uh, and then after six months I got fired. And, um, I didn't get another job for six months after that. And then in between I'd gotten evicted, had a girlfriend who was living in San Antonio. I crashed at her place for a bit. And then, but I really wanted to go back to Austin 'cause I was like, I did not move halfway across the country to crash in my girlfriends pad in San Antonio. It's not the same city, it's not as much fun. It's then I immediately realized that like, that life wasn't mine.  

John:    00:04:05    It's not what I decided. And so I, I made it a point to go back. And so six weeks after getting evicted, uh, I, I got a job at Dell writing popup banner ad copy. Now, I had, the only reason that I was, that I was able to do that was because I, I had been writing like an unpaid sports blog for five years before that. And I was like, you know, I kind of like this writing thing. I wonder if I could do it for money. And, um, so I cobbled together some sports blogs and I was like, here, staffing agency. This is, this is my portfolio. And they're like, well, we need someone with agency experience. And I was like, well, yeah, I used to work at one doing ops management, and they were like, no, like writing for an agency. And I was like, anything else?  

John:    00:05:05    They're like, yeah, it needs to be tech focused. I was like, cool. We did a bunch of stuff for Cisco. So I asked one of the copywriters I worked with, if I could steal some of her work and pass it off as my own. So I did. And then I got the job. So I lied about that. Sorry, everyone <laugh>, which is funny because it's an open secret and everyone at Dell knew afterwards I was like, yeah, I, I lied initially to get this job and I was homeless. You know, the first 10 weeks I worked here, I just crashed in a rental jeep. And then after my first paycheck, I, um, I ended up getting a room, a, a red roof in where I stayed for seven weeks, uh, when I could afford to. And, um, like I had had my car repossessed, so I was like struggling. There were times where I was just like panhandling or like walking up and down the halls at Dell looking for enough like dimes and quarters to get food out of the vending machine and, uh, not showering very often. And, you know, I I, I managed to make it work and I saved up enough to be able to eventually get another place. Um, but that whole cycle in between getting fired from my first job and then getting a place of my own again, lasted about nine months. So.  

Kristin:    00:06:44    And so--  

John:    00:06:45    It was a very difficult time.  

Kristin:    00:06:47    And you were homeless for almost half a year?  

John:    00:06:51    I was homeless from June 24th through December 1st.  

Kristin:    00:06:57    Wow. So while homeless, you were out looking for a job, got one and then worked there for a while.

John:    Worked there.

Kristin:   And no one knew.  

John:    00:07:10    No one knew. I didn't tell anyone. I used my old address in Austin on my application. Um, I had a PO Box in San Antonio for the rest of my mail. And yeah, I didn't tell anybody. I was--  

Kristin:    00:07:25    Did your family know?  

John:    00:07:27    Yeah, my family knew. I was living at my girlfriend's house and I, yeah, I told them like I was sleeping in a car in order to make the Dell thing. And it did. It was, it was a tremendous bet that I had to make. I started off, it was funny, when they asked me, they were like, what do you wanna, what do you wanna make? I was like, 50 sounds, I'd made like 40 in my last, I was like, 50 sounds good. They're like, how about 55? And I was like, okay, sure, great, yeah, I'll do that. And um, I got, you know, well, I've worked for Dell for exactly seven years and damn near doubled my salary. Um, and in between in 2012, I made 11,000. And in 2018 I made 11,000. And so I 10x my income. But the easy way to 10, that's why people are like, here's how to 10x your income. The easiest way to 10x your income is by starting from $11,000 in a year. You have to start low  

John:    00:08:35   In order to reach those grandiose heights that people talk about. Um, but yeah, I got like four promotions there as I made it a point to work really fast, do really good work, and to write a lot, uh, not quite 20,000 words a day, but, but there were days where I'd write like 70 or 80 headline and I just made it a point to out hustle everybody. And, you know, I got a bunch of promotions, got a bunch of raises, and managed to do really well. And there, there are still 20, 30 airports around the world where if we were able to fly, you would be able to see signs for Dell that I wrote still a year after I left. So, and you know, my legacy at that company is secure. But while I was doing that, I kept expanding my reach outside those walls so that one day I wouldn't have to work there anymore because there was nowhere left for me to go, unless I was interested in corporate management, which not my thing. I, I don't manage people well. I, I manage words, I manage messaging, brands, images. Um, that's my, that's what I love to do. I love to create, I'm not, I'm not a big, you know, PowerPoint guy.  

Kristin:    00:10:03    <laugh>. Yeah. And Dell is like, I mean, just thinking of Dell makes me think of the office movie, right? Or TV show like.  

John:    00:10:10    So the movie office space was shot in Austin and based off of Dell.  

Kristin:    00:10:16    That does not surprise me because that is the image that pops into my head. And, um, I've never worked at a company like that, but I have been to some corporate office buildings and I'm just like, how, like, how do people do it? I mean, there's not enough coffee in the world to keep me awake <laugh> in that, in that environment all day.  

John:    00:10:39    Um, it took a lot of coffee. It was fun though. I, I had fun there. Yeah. I had a good time.  

Kristin:    00:10:46    I guess if you had, like, your coworkers are basically what makes you, survive in those circumstances. It's not the, um, ambiance of the cubicle. It's like the people who are in there with you <laugh>.  

John:    00:10:59    Right? And we all, like, we all had a good sense of humor and, and, and I not coming from a corporate background, you know, coming from, from a performance background, I'm fun and I, I brought that irreverence and that authenticity and that three dimensionality to that company. And I would write on Medium and people would read very salacious details about my life. And people would think like, well, you know, aren't you, aren't you afraid that people at work are going to read this? And I was like, those people are some of my biggest fans. They love reading that stuff. So no, no, I'm not concerned. Like we all have things that we think and things that we do outside of corporate walls that make us into the person that we are. And I think not bringing that to, you know, not bringing your whole self to things does a disservice. It doesn't make people comfortable to bring their whole selves. And what you get is an office environment that feels very stilted. And I was never like that.  

Kristin:    00:12:10    Your story reminds me of, do you know Andrew Tarvin

John:    00:12:14    I do not. No.  

Kristin:    00:12:15    or Drew or I think he goes by Drew Tarvin now. I saw one of his Ted Talks, and this was a few years ago. I watched it a few times, actually. I think one, one of his has millions of views and he, I wanna say he worked at Dell, I think he did. And he worked for like one of those big tech, like older tech companies. And he learned how to do standup comedy while he was there. And he gave himself a job title as the corporate humorist. And he made business cards for himself. And everyone at Dell was like, oh yeah, cool. You know, they let him like send his emails out with like jokes in it and stuff like that. And then now, like his full-time job, he's basically a comedian, a writer. And now I saw that he started a podcast and  

Kristin:    00:13:07    When I started my podcast, the audacity, I didn't even <laugh>, I didn't even know. I was like, oh, who should I have as guests? I'm just gonna ask people who I admire. And so I had, Tom Kuegler was my very first podcast.

John:     Oh wow.

Kristin:   Bless him. He was still, I guess he was still small enough to come on the show, <laugh>. I don't think I would even ask him now 'cause I would be like, I don't know.

John:     Wow.

Kristin:   Because, you know, he is like a viral vlogger and writer and everything. But I guess at the time he, yeah, he, he was still just like a normal person. Um, so he came on the show and then my second guest was Drew Tarvin, this Tedx speaker. And I don't, I can't believe he said yes either, but he did. So the lesson in that guys is to just go for it. If you're doing, you know, whatever you're doing, if you're, if you're homeless and you need a job, you start applying for a job. If you start a podcast, you just ask people that you admire to come onto it. And they might just say yes in this case too. You came on. Um.  

John:    00:14:12    Well, and here's the thing, right? Like, so Sarah Cooper, who um, used to work at Google started writing on Medium back in like 2014 and started doing comedy and she became profitable enough doing all that to quit her Google job. And then she published a book and now she's, she's that woman who does all the tiktoks where she mouths Donald Trump's.  

Kristin:    00:14:43    I follow her on Twitter.  

John:    00:14:45    Yeah. So her, 

Kristin:    00:14:46     She's hilarious.  

John:    00:14:47    Her and I have been, you know, kind of loose friends for a couple of years now. And, um, kind of watching her blossom from Googler who writes on Medium to a world famous tiktoker has been really a joy. 'cause she's such a wonderful human. And, um, but yeah, same kind of story. And, you know, if it wasn't for someone like her, I wouldn't have had the courage to pull the rip and quit my corporate job. But I watched her do it and I was like, well, maybe I could do it too, so.

Kristin:    00:15:25    And so did you know her, you started writing on Medium.  

John:    00:15:30    Uhhuh, That's, uh, she's one of the people who I wouldn't say convinced me, but like, I saw her writing on Medium and I was like, oh, that looks like a cool place to write. And they were like, they let anyone write <laugh>. Anyone can write here. Shit, I gotta do this. I write things, I have thoughts. And so, um, you know, initially I wrote about sports and then, um, and then I got canceled. Uh, so I stopped and then I retreated into writing about my feelings. And now I write about kind of everything. I have three loose buckets, existentialism, uh, egalitarian politics and socioeconomic justice. Uh, and then like, just self-help quackery.  

Kristin:    00:16:25    Yeah. Because humans are multidimensional. And you actually just reminded me, I wrote my first article on Medium was places that Americans can move to after the election. 'cause it was right when Donald Trump won the election <laugh>, it was 2016. And I was, had been reading, I had been reading all these Smart People and Medium, and I'm like, I wanna write on there. And so I published that article. I wish I kept publishing 'cause I probably would be, but I'd have like a hundred thousand followers. Well, I stopped for like two years. Like I started writing on it and then I stopped, and then I started again in 2018. But, um, yeah, that's the cool thing about Medium is that anyone can write on there and you don't even have to be a good writer. And it's like once you write on there for long enough, you become better at writing. Like,

John:    I was gonna say,

Kristin: oh, sorry, say that.  

John:    00:17:18    No, I, go ahead. Continue.  

Kristin:    00:17:21    I spontaneously started a publication this morning about an hour, hour before I got on this call with you. 

John:    00:17:29    Digital Nomad Digest. Shameless was plug.  

Kristin:    00:17:32    Yeah. But the thing is, is I thought of doing it for a few years, but I just didn't feel ready to do it. And I had the, um, the logo made and the banner and everything. And then recently I've just gotten annoyed with, with, uh, writing articles and then people don't accept them into their publications. And then I'll finally publish it on my own page. And then it'll get curated or something. And then sometimes people will be like, oh, can I publish it? I'm like, yeah, but you rejected it before, but whatever. Okay. Right. So that happens. But then, um, as I was like, that happened again this week with three other articles. Nobody would publish them. And I'm like, ah, I'm just gonna publish it. And then I'm like, oh, why don't I just start that publication now? 'cause I already had the URL, so I, I wrote like, introduction to this, what is this publication?  

Kristin:    00:18:24    And as I was doing that, I was like, oh, I should put examples of like, what kind of articles people are gonna find in there. And then I realized, I'm like, man, I've written a lot of articles, and it's like, that's how life works. Like that's how progress happens, is that you have an idea to do something, whether it's writing or whatever, and then you start doing it and you don't feel ready to do it, and you don't believe you can do it, and you don't think you're good at it because you're not, usually when you start out and then a few years go by and then you realize, Hey, I did that thing and now people are reading, or I am getting paid for it, or whatever. And so like, I ended up with maybe like, I pulled like 20 or 30 articles that fit into the categories that I'm like, this is what Digital Nomad Digest will be about.  

Kristin:    00:19:15    It's about remote work, technology, travel, how to become a digital nomad, how to find remote jobs, uh, travel stories. And then I like went through my own database of articles and it's like, wow, I didn't even remember writing a bunch of those. So I mean, now I do, but, and that's, that's just something that I think everybody can relate to that feeling of not being ready to do something <laugh> and, you know, maybe, maybe you don't have to ask someone to pretend that their work is yours, but hey, that worked. That worked for you. It does. And, and you know, I, I actually heard a quote or a stat that I was talking about in a coaching call the other day that women feel like they need to be, I think like 90% prepared. Like if they read a job, what is it?  

John:    00:20:11    Yeah, it's, it's, um, 90%, whereas men, it's, uh, 60.  

Kristin:    00:20:15    Oh, okay. I thought men it was like 10% or something. Like, they see 10% of the job. They're like, oh yeah, I could do that. And then they just apply for it.  

John:    00:20:24    One of the things, not to go too far down this foxhole, but one of the things that I've been constantly, you know, told is like, I'm, I'm someone who has imposter syndrome and survivor guilt, like real hard, like someone who just doesn't, like, I think I'm a hack always. And that, that mindset permeates into pretty much everything I do. Not just in writing, but in many of other, many other respects. And so I tend to leave a lot of money and opportunity on the table good, good opportunities and good money because I don't think that I'm, I, I'm worthy of it. And so I was, I was actually explaining this, one of my friends is a woman, and she was like, wow, you sound like a woman <laugh>. And I was like, I know. Like, because, you know, in the last three years there's been this deluge of, um, literature suggesting that like, men take up too much space and, you know, underqualified men overshoot their skis all the time. And I was like, where was, how come I didn't get this memo? How come I wanna, I wanna be able to take up too much space. Damn it. But the solution to your own problem is, you know, in this case is detrimental to the solution to the problem. And so I still make it a point to make sure I'm uber qualified for something before I go do it.  

Kristin:    00:21:46    Yeah. I guess there's a fine line there in, in anyone who's thinking of doing something. And, and I know that I'm sure the listeners of the podcast when they're looking at remote jobs or starting an online business's, like you see this gap between where you are and where you wanna be, and you're like, oh, how am I ever gonna fill that gap? But I always remind people that if you make it out of high school, you know, you're 18 years old or you know, 17, 18, 19 years old, think of all this stuff that you had to learn to get that far. So it's like, even if you have a skillset that's still limited and you know how to do half of the things that are on the job description, maybe just Google some of the other stuff and get an idea of it. And you might be in that adjacent possible where you don't know how to do that exact thing, but it might only take you a few days to learn how to do it. So it's not that big of a stretch. So you can kind of apply for jobs that you're not totally qualified for, or maybe you don't have five years of experience. Maybe you have two years of experience or whatever it is. And try to find avenues that you can either teach yourself or, or show another example of work that would qualify you. So it's like, you just never know.  

John:    00:23:06    Right.  

Kristin:    00:23:07    Because then no one else is a hundred percent qualified for any job, I don't think.  

John:    00:23:12    If yeah, if you check all of the boxes for a job, that means you need to shoot higher.  

Kristin:    00:23:17    Yeah. Then you're overqualified, right?  

John:    00:23:20    Then you're just, that's a lateral move at that point, right? Yeah. You're just like, oh, I've done all this before I could do it again. It's like, well, no, that's, that's a good way to stay exactly where you are. Um, like when I left Dell, I was, I was like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I just know I wanna write. But there's all these other things that come with it being someone who's on their own, essentially acting as every job function in their business. And I've just had to learn it. I've sort of had to build the plane while it's flying <laugh>, and it's been a bit of a rollercoaster of kind of holding it together with duct tape. But it is, it is about to fly. Like it is, it seems like it's going to work. And I just keep telling myself that as I, as I hemorrhage more and more money. Um, but it does feel like it's working.  

Kristin:    00:24:20    It's been, yeah. It's like if it's working, it's working. And I happened to catch a live meditation this morning on Insight timer, and it was about how to stop worrying about the future because.

John:      Oh yeah.

Kristin:     That's why thinking about the future is so stressful and so anxiety inducing because there's nothing we can do about it because it's not real. So it's like our brain's trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist yet. And so when we actually look around us and you're like, okay, I look around, I'm in my house, there's food in the refrigerator, uh, there's money in the bank account, or like enough to cover the bills or whatever. And even when you are in your car, you're like, well, I'm alive. I'm breathing. I ate something today. I have a job, a paycheck's coming. You know, like no matter what the situation is, it's just like, is anything happening to me physically right now?  

Kristin:    00:25:15    Like, am I being threatened in this moment? Is there somebody at the door, like maybe there are people at the door trying to evict you? Like in that case, you're like, okay, let me come up with a strategy here, <laugh>, uh, for how to face this. But in most cases, like 99% of the time, nothing's happening in that second, it's just us worrying about what might happen tomorrow. And it's like, as long as you can just keep going, that's all that you need. And you might make $11,000 a year for 10 years, and then you make 111,000 and then you make a million or whatever. It's like, as long as you have enough money to keep going, that's what matters. Right.  

John:    00:25:59    I've had multiple times in my life, including recently where I thought, this isn't gonna work. And every time I think that something new happens where I'm like, oh, of course, of course this works. I, I've never had a doubt in my mind. And that's such a lie because I doubt it the whole way. I kick and scream the whole way. It's like, you know, green eggs and ham guy where he is just like yelling the whole time about eating green eggs and ham. Eventually he's just like, Hey, I kind like this. Um, it's the same, it's the same thing. I sit there and worry the whole time like, oh, this isn't gonna work. This isn't gonna work. And then it does, except for one prominent example, which we'll get to later.  

Kristin:    00:26:57    Even though you had all of this success and you have 50,000 plus followers on Medium, and you're making good money there, you have a lot of clients. We gotta talk about some of your rockstar clients and how you landed these big, uh, ghost writing jobs and clients like that. So it's like, you're healthy, you're safe, you have money, you've achieved success on paper, literally and figuratively. Um, but then there was also a moment where you were like, eh, I don't wanna do life anymore, even though I did succeed. What was that like and how did you get out of that?  

John:    00:27:41    So I've had bouts of depression on and off for most of my life. The ti-- weirdly, the time that I admit suicide, well, I shouldn't say that because I wouldn't be able to say that if I did. The time I tried to was weirdly at a high point. And this is something that has sort of reared its head. Every time something really great has happened, it's almost like there's a thermostat in my mind where I feel I'm only allotted a certain amount of success. And once I hit above that, the AC clicks on and it's like, no, no, no, no, no, you're burning too hot. You need to come down in temperature. And sometimes when the highs are really high, then I come down real hard. And I've noticed that this is somewhat cyclical, that this is something where I tend to go up and up and up for several months, and then I reach some new zenith and then I immediately crashed.  

John:    00:29:08    And the weird part about this is this wasn't a crash. This was just, so what had happened was I was offered a raise at my company for a bidding war, had broken out for my services, uh, at Dell, where I essentially went from, I got a promotion and like a 20,000 a year essentially. And that was at that, that moment I realized, I'm not an imposter at this company anymore. I am the guy, I am someone who's made it, someone who is a true professional, a true leader in my field. And I went out that night and I celebrated and I got drunk as most of my awful stories seem to involve alcohol. Um, I got drunk and by the end of the evening, I just realized I'm still sitting in a bar alone. My friends are all bartenders, I'm still lonely, I'm still miserable, I'm unlovable.  

John:    00:30:30    Nobody likes me. I'm a fraud, I'm a hack. And I decided, you know, that I'd had enough and, uh, then decided it would be a good idea to go wrap my car around a tree. And I picked the wrong tree 'cause it wasn't very big. And so <laugh>, nothing, nothing of note happened to me besides me busting up my car a little bit. And I never deci-- I decided never to fix it. I decided I would just drive around with that car bumper just hanging on as a reminder to myself that doing that again would be a bad idea. And, um, like I snapped out of it the next day. I was like, oh, I'm, I'm fine. I'm okay. And then, so like, I'd like to say that that was like my rock bottom wake up call moment. But it wasn't at all. Um, I did get progressively better. 2015 was a good year for me and I got progressively better.  

John:    00:31:47    Um, you know, up until I entered into a relationship with someone who, it was my first experience dating someone more of who's more of an avoidant attacher than I'm. And I became very anxious attaching. And one day she moved out without me knowing we were gonna break up. And, uh, I was like, Ooh, that's that, that's odd. How'd that happen? And so I texted one of my friends, I'm like, dude, this, this is weird. Like, damn man, you should write that story. And I'd never written about my personal life on Medium before. And so I was like, well, whatever. So I, I just wrote it and I didn't even publish it, I just left it unlisted. And the editor in Chief of Human Parts, which is a publication on Medium who's still the editor in chief of it, found it and was like, this is too good for no one to read it.  

John:    00:32:57    She's like, and I publish it and we'll just like feature it as the top story. And I was like, yeah, sure, go ahead. And so that kick started, the whole John writes about his life on Medium, um, thing. And it was, uh, it was really weird because I was like, oh, there's a market for this. People care. People want to read this. Alright, it's your funeral. So, um, started doing that and um, I did a lot of my healing through writing. I would ask myself a question and try and come up with the answer. I find a answer and that would yield another question. And I just kept doing that until I gotta the bottom of what was ailing me. And I still don't think I'm quite there, but I feel like I've gotten to a deep enough place where I can explain most of, I can explain away most of my bad behaviors that I haven't yet corrected.  

Kristin:    00:33:58    What was the name of that article in Human Parts.  

John:    00:34:03    It was called, it's a Vonnegut Knockoff. It's, uh, Everything was beautiful and all of it hurt.  

Kristin:    00:34:10    Oh yeah, I have that one open here.  

John:    00:34:13    Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:34:14    Yep. I've read that one. And you also wrote in, I think it's in How to Fix Your Life that You that spent the last two plus years writing about depression, anxiety, insecurity, mental anguish, heartbreak, delusion, imposter syndrome, survivor guilt, trauma, substance abuse, negative self-talk, illness, sadness, shame and guilt. And then kind of fixed those problems through writing about them and, and publishing them for the public, who I'm sure also processed some of their own stuff through that. And so you, you say that the healing, growth, acceptance, compassion mindset, self-love, grace, empathy, iteration, adaptation and joy you experienced were literally written into existence conjured out of thin air. I painted the stars. I used to guide me on my way to where I wished I could go. I wrote my own treasure map, hiked to the X, planted the loot. I told you I'd find. And now that blueprint is available for anyone else to use in their life's journey. Should they want to. I really, that was your writing. Those were your words. But I really love,  

John:    00:35:38    I remember them <laugh>. I know exactly what, that's a letter of experience  

Kristin:    00:35:42    I'm telling, telling everybody else so that they know.  

John:    00:35:45    Mm-Hmm.  

Kristin:    00:35:45    Um, I love that because that's, you know, I mean that's kind of what this podcast is about, is how to write your life into existence. But even if you're not writing it, like how to make it happen, how to create it out of thin air. And, um, so what are, what is your advice to people that are reading that and listening to this when they're in that spot? Or they might be, whether they're sitting in a bar, they just got a bonus. Well now they're not 'cause it's a pandemic, but you know--

John:    00:36:26    They're sitting in a bar  

Kristin:    00:36:27    Just to, to, to get that money that provides freedom and then realize that you still don't like your life is a really hard thing to sit with. And in your case, it resulted in driving into a tree. And surviving. But for other people, maybe it's just waking up with like depression every day and being like, man, I worked really hard to get here and now I don't like it here. So like, what do you do?  

John:    00:36:55    I think, yeah, here's the thing. I think we all go through spurts where we're thinking to ourselves, I don't like my life as it's, and they feel like they feel permanent because they're strong emotions. A lot of the major life moments I've had have been accompanied by feelings of, I don't, I still don't feel like it's good, good enough. I still don't feel like I'm enough. I still don't feel like I'm where I wanna be. And because they're anchored to such strong emotions and such noteworthy events in your life, they feel more common than they actually are. I would say like 98% of my life is fairly unexceptional. And I'd say that's probably true of most people. You know, I, I've learned that, you know, somebody said like, we spend one third of our lives to sleep. We spend another 25% at work, we spend another 10% eating. So that right there is 68%, there's two thirds of your life, you know, that we're talking about. And then the other third involves things like going to the bathroom, showering, getting ready for work, um,  

Kristin:    00:38:17    Cleaning,  

John:    00:38:18    Cleaning mindlessly, scrolling

Kristin:  Errands,

John:    the internet, running errands,  

Kristin:    00:38:22    Tv, Netflix,   

John:    00:38:24    Netflix doing chores and tasks, watching tv. So what we're talking about, like, oh, I haven't done anything with my life. We're talking about maybe like those, that 10%. Right? And so a couple of years back, I remember I was in California and I, I went through like percentages and I, I think it was like 79% of our life is, except just across the board. So the feeling of satisfaction that you get with your life comes from actually making the unexceptionable bearable. Making it fun. Right. Making it interesting. So how do you do that? Okay, well, I make it a point. I spend a third of my life in bed. Okay, I'm going to buy a really nice mattress, really soft sheets, right? I'm gonna enjoy bed <laugh>. Um, I'm going to work out right? Why? So that I'm healthier. And so I have more energy to go through life. I'm going eat better food. Why? So I can stay alive longer, but also because I want it to taste good and be pleasant. I travel. Why? Because I can, you know, you try and do the things where whatever it is you're doing, like work, for example, I do what I love When I work, I, that takes care of 80% of my life. 80% of my life is, is genuinely pretty good.  

John:    00:39:59    Just unexceptional. So it's, it's those big things that we think will make us happy. That I, I I often compare this to changing the weather versus changing the climate. You know, like if I want to change the weather of my life, fronts come and go, right? If I do a thing, it happens and then it's done and I feel good about it for a while, and then it's like, okay, onto the next thing. Right? Those are, that's just weather. Anything that happens to just weather the climate is like, what's your baseline? Are you 72 and sunny? Or is your climate, you know, cold or rainy or bleak or overcast or, you know, and that, that's the thing that makes the difference. The thing that makes the difference in life is changing your baseline, which is much harder to do, much harder to do than it is to like go out and do amazing things. Go doing amazing things is hard, sure. But it's fleeting and momentary. And usually you end up doing something else that's not what you planned. But changing the things around you make you feel like, I like to live in kind of a clean house. Why? So that I don't have to look at visual or digital clutter that puts me on edge. I want calm. So it's, it's those little things that you do repeatedly that make the difference and the amount of effort and intention that you're willing to put toward them.  

Kristin:    00:41:33    That's really, really great advice. And it explains a lot. And it's good reminder that not to let the, the weather or a thunderstorm, like yesterday morning there was a massive sun shower, but like a downpour outside my house and I wanted to go stand out in the rain, but then I heard thunder and I'm like, how is there a thunderstorm while the sun is out? It's like, doesn't

John:    Welcome to Florida.

Kristin:  Yeah. Doesn't make sense. But it's like, yeah, when we get that, like a hurricane can come through your life metaphorically tornadoes and just mess everything up. But then it's gone and you're like, well, I'm still here. That wasn't that bad. I guess I can keep going. And um, actually one of my, I've had, I've known multiple people that committed suicide in my life and two of them happened in high school.  

Kristin:    00:42:32    One was my ex-boyfriend. And my dad told me at the time because I was like, I don't understand. 'cause I was like a teenager. I'm like, I don't understand how you could do this. But actually, as I've gotten older, I do understand now, especially like so many famous people have committed suicide and like Anthony Bourdain from that to like personal friends, I'm like, I get it. 'cause I've been in those in the dip. You know, I've been in the dip quite a few times. But you always get out of it unless you end it right there. And what my dad told me was that, um, when you have that thought, like a suicidal thought, the next day you might laugh. And just the potential like possibility of laughter the day after you think about committing suicide could be enough to remind you not to do it.  

Kristin:    00:43:32    Because if that, if you could laugh tomorrow, then imagine what's possible 10 years from now that you would never know if you had just ended it that day. And um, and, and that's one of the takeaways I had from the, the silent meditation course is that you can have so many feelings and so many crazy thoughts and so many emotions running through your psyche and your body in a given day. You can't react to all of them. And then the next day you're gonna feel different again. Everything's always changing. So I like the idea of having, of, of thinking about it like the climate and making sure that you're doing things to enjoy your life and those silent little moments that you have throughout the, whether it's your morning routine or because the big things don't, those don't really matter. Like I, I heard a, um, podcast on the Tim Ferris show with Gary Keller. Um, have you read his books? I forget what is the big book that he wrote? The one thing, have you read The one thing? And he was saying,   

John:    00:44:52    or the other thing  

Kristin:    00:44:53    He <laugh> he's the founder of Keller Williams, Real Estate.  

John:    00:44:57    Oh yeah, that's, um, Austin Company.  

Kristin:    00:45:00    Yeah. So he's super successful and he was saying that he doesn't go to award ceremonies or conferences, like anything where he wins an award or he's honored, he just doesn't go because

John:     Good for him.

Kristin:  He's like, I would rather stay home with my family and my wife and my dog. And like that is winning. Like, that's being like, yeah, I don't care about that award. Like, I'm just gonna stay here. So yeah.  

John:    00:45:26    Works the reward. And I, I try, I try and say that a lot, you know, if you love what you're doing or you love your life, you love who you are and you've cultivated your life to a point where you can say those things mean them, then all of the outside accomplishments and achievements don't matter. If you can get it to a point where I no longer need to have goals because I'm good, just simply existing as I'm, then you want, then there's all you need is you need four things to enjoy your life. Something to do, somewhere to go, someone to love and something to look forward to. That's it.  

Kristin:    00:46:19    And good sheets, 

John:    00:46:20   It's all you need. And great sheets, great sheets. 500 plus thread count. But don't be confused by a thousand. 'cause that's just 500 laid on top of each other.  

Kristin:    00:46:33    I did not know that.  

John:    00:46:35    Little sheet hack for you. Yeah. You can only make a thread count so high before the threads become too small to be considered thread. Right. It's how many times--  

Kristin:    00:46:50     It's marketing bullshit right there.  

John:    00:46:51    It's marketing bullshit. Yes.  

Kristin:    00:46:54    From the copywriter himself. Thank you for letting us know that.  

John:    00:46:58    You're welcome.  

Kristin:    00:47:00    That is some solid life advice right there. I'm just letting that marinate for a minute.  

John:    00:47:04    Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:47:06    And then how do you, like, how are you dealing with this quarantine right now? Because tell us about this month where, okay, you, you were in Austin, you had sorted things out in your personal life, and then you're like, I'm gonna take a getaway and go to Europe for a month and just go gallivanting around the European continent. How did that change your life and your perspective even further? And then give you the idea that you might wanna do that more often or semi permanently. Like you might wanna base yourself in a place like a vineyard in Spain or on the coast of Portugal to add maybe another 5% of enjoyment to your time.  

John:    00:47:57    Right. So, um, so it's important, let's kind of backtrack a little bit. The, the Europe trip, um, happened in 2018, fall of 2018, um, basically the month of September. And I did it as, uh, it was a, I called it a victory lap because I had finally reached a point where I was making enough money to be able to, because I was dead broke until I was about 32, like dead broke, like tremendous amounts of debt, um, you know, up until I was 30, 20, 30, 40,000 a year maybe, right? But I was good. Like I, I could finally afford to go to Europe, really excited about that. So I went, I'd never, never been to the mainland of Europe. And I went and I saw like how much slower people lived out there and how much, like less glued to their technology and their job they were, and how much more in love people seemed to be if they were with someone, and how much harder they laughed and how much less they, less emphasis they placed on material wealth and ambition and how much more, um, they placed on satisfaction and belonging, which I think are the true north stars for everyone in life when it comes to determining whether or not they were successful.  

John:    00:49:32    And I was like, I wanna live more, like this is more in line with my values. This is the culture I wanna be in. I wanna gravitate more toward living like this. And so I thought, well, at some point I'm gonna move over there. All I need to do is find a time to quit my job. And so in March of, uh, 19, I noticed myself beginning to talk about Dell in the past tense. And I was like, Ooh, I'm envisioning a life post Dell. That's interesting. And in July, um, last year, I decided to set a quit date, um, of November of 19. And I didn't even make it that far. I, at the end of August of last year, I realized I have enough. I don't need to wait any longer. So I just walked in one day and was like, Hey, as you know, because everyone at Dell knew I did stuff outside of Dell.  

John:    00:50:45    Like that was no secret to anybody. And so I, I, I slid my letter of resignation and, and people were like, oh, I knew this was coming. They were like, this sucks so hard, but I'm so happy for you. And, um, so I did that and, and quit, you know, a year ago in September. And I said, okay, June 1st. So nine months from now, June 1st, I will be living in Portugal. Li-- I didn't know I was gonna be living in Portugal or Elizabeth, but I I knew I was gonna move. I decided January 1st I was gonna be in li I sat there and every night that I was like trying to do like passport visa stuff, you know, people were like, or I, I would call friends and be like, that's not gonna work. I've never done this before. Too much can go wrong. Something's gonna happen. They're like, what? What could possibly go wrong? And I was like, I don't know, I could run out of money or I could get sick or something could get fucked up with the visa thing. Like, I dunno,   

Kristin:    00:51:56    Locked up abroad.  

John:    00:51:57    <laugh>. Yeah. Something could happen. I don't even mean like, like me being like, once I knew I, once I gotta Portugal, I knew I'd be fine. Right? I was like, once I do a thing, I eventually make it. Well, little did I know something was going to go terribly wrong.  

Kristin:    00:52:17    Something.  

John:    00:52:19    And that something, you know how we were talking about weather and climate earlier, this is an example of something that was supposed to be weather that has turned into climate.  

Kristin:    00:52:30    Yeah.  

John:    00:52:31    Like, and you can tell, and it's uniquely American because the other countries aren't really having a problem with this. Like, yes, many countries have had thousands and if not tens of thousands of deaths due to the coronavirus and the Covid-19 disease that it causes. But only America amongst like wealthy nations is struggling with it in such a way that it appears as though it's going to become endemic. 

Kristin:    00:53:11    Yeah,  It's like an implosion.  

John:    00:53:13    Yeah. That we have, we have blown right past failed the state into plague state and the borders are now closed and ain't nobody going anywhere. And I'm immunocompromised, so I ain't getting on a plane. And so now I'm stuck, I don't know for how long. Could be months, could be years. So now I'm like, well, okay, let's, let's recalibrate what we thought we were going to do this year. And I thought, okay, let's just say this pandemic never ends. Worst case scenario. I know it's not something that's sexy to think about, but I thought, well, okay, let's just say that this pandemic is here forever and I will never see anyone I care about ever again. What would I do? That's how I've tried to reset my goals. And I know that sounds morbid and I know that sounds frightening, but that's the only thing I can really do at this point because we're living in an indefinite pause. We don't know what's going to happen on the other side of this if there's going to be another side of this or when.  

John:    00:54:39    And so all we can do, as you said earlier, is look around us and, and, and try and assess, okay, what's happening right this second? How do I make the most of this? And that's what I'm trying to do. And it's really hard. It's really, really hard because you want so badly to project out into the future and think, well, I'd like to go accomplish this thing, but at the same time, you don't know if that's possible. I've had to cancel a bunch of flights that I've had or still have on the books because I just realized it's not gonna happen. I've had the move is on indefinite hold and the move was to escape the collapse of the United States, and I missed by a couple months and now I have to sit here for it. I'm like that guy who saw, you know that in every single um, movie where there's a ship that's about to sink, like it's been struck by a torpedo or an iceberg or something, there's always that one guy in the boiler room who sees the water coming in and he is like, we gotta get outta here. And inevitably somebody like walks him in and he is banging on the doors, the water like engulfs him. That's how I felt.  

Kristin:    00:56:24    Ironically, I still feel ironically, I've spent almost every year outside of my country, like outside the looking glass right. Or whatever that is on the other side, outside looking in. Since I was 20 years old, really since I was a teenager, I have been, I have existed outside of the borders of the United States, and it is only when I came back for three months in February flew down from Canada. I was like, I'm gonna spend three months in my Miami with a home base. I need a break from traveling. And literally two weeks after, two or three weeks after I got here, this happened. And I'm like, now I might be here forever. And I've been expecting the, the fall of America for at least 10 years. Like, I knew it was gonna happen in my lifetime. I didn't know it was gonna happen like this, but I'm like, how are the odds that I end up here at the same time?  

Kristin:    00:57:30    But I'm, I'm still, I don't know what's gonna happen either, obviously. But I am oddly glad that I'm here just because I have been able to see my family a bunch of times during this time. And I don't know if I would wanna be in another country where it's like things are open and closed and open and closed and like, I wouldn't wanna get on a plane and come to the us Like if I was out of the US I don't think I would fly back. But now that I'm here, I'm like, I guess I'm just gonna be here. And, and I was thinking of leaving because I am afraid that we're gonna have martial law, especially around the election time, and the borders are gonna be for real closed and we might not be able to leave for like years. Like, I don't know, it could get really, really bad, but I'm like, I think it'll, yeah.  

Kristin:    00:58:21    I talked to my friend in Serbia yesterday and I was like, how is it, should I go there? And she's like, it's really scary right now because they're kind of in a place where they're not, they're just ignoring the coronavirus. Like they're just open. And so it's just kind of like here, but it's just not, they don't have the same exact problems. But there's a lot of countries that are not a lot, but there are also countries that are kind of ignoring it.  And then I just heard, I haven't checked this yet, but I just did a video on Bali reopening and then my friend this morning in Costa Rica said that Bali's kicking out all of the foreigners on tourist visa. So I haven't even confirmed that yet, but I'm like, there's another thing, like I don't wanna go somewhere. And then they're like, we're kicking everyone out who's not a citizen.  

Kristin:    00:59:09    So I don't know, I just feel like I don't have enough information or certainty yet to make a decision about where I'm gonna go or what I'm gonna do. So like, and, and I, and I do wanna point out like the situation is not ideal right now.

John:    No <laugh>

Kristin:   But I had, one of my neighbors in Costa Rica was a South African war prisoner. So he was captured as a soldier in South Africa. I don't know if this was during the apartheid or when this was, he was in a prison for I think 11 years, if I'm not mistaken in a concrete cell with like a hundred other men with the lights on 24 hours a day. And they got cabbage soup, I think once a day, like a broth of cabbage. They got beaten every day and they didn't get showers, but they got like sprayed down with a hose once in a while, like in the cell.  

Kristin:    01:00:19    So they never left the cell. They didn't have bathrooms, they just had like drains on the floor. And he came out of that, he became like a public speaker and he wrote a book and stuff. I'm gonna have to look up what his name was. I mean, he definitely still had issues. There were times where I was like, I don't know if I like this guy, if he's my friend or if I should be like afraid of him. But he told me that this was probably like 2009 when I met him, he told me that he survived. He actually got out through writing letters and he would trade his soup for stamps or he would like bribe the guards or something.

John:    Okay

Kristin:   Like, he used the soup as leverage. And so he would just starve. Like he would just fast for days 'cause he would just give away his soup so he could send these postcards and letters out.  

Kristin:    01:01:16    And some students in South Africa got them and they did like this whole, um, campaign to get him freed from this prison. And he eventually got out and then I don't know how he ended up in Costa Rica, but he probably was like, life's too short. I'm gonna go somewhere. But he told me that he survived. And you know, there's so many stories of people who were held as prisoners of war from like John McCain through, you know, all the people in history who have like survived that. And like, you get through it by going inside yourself, like inside your brain. You have to find that, that place of calmness and serenity and acceptance and forgiveness and gratitude, acceptance of your situation, forgiveness of your captors, forgiveness of, you know, like the coronavirus, the politicians, whatever it is. And I, and I just always thought after I met him, if he could survive those conditions in that jail in South Africa, like humans can survive really almost anything. We're quite adaptable and we can, we've been through a lot. Human history is just littered it just infinite examples of, of horrific things happening. And so we can survive this and like, we are very lucky that we have Uber Eats and like air conditioning and you know, like it's really, we have the internet, like we're all not stuffed into a concrete cell.  

John:    01:02:55    Yeah. People who are, people who are comparing this to prison are severely misguided. Yeah. And that you bring up an interesting point is, and that's civilization as we know it really is young, most of human history is fairly barbaric.  

Kristin:    01:03:16    Yes.  

John:    01:03:17    And violent and chaotic. And what we're experiencing now is kind of the erosion of maybe like 70 years of this. I mean, obviously things have gotten better in a technological sense. Like we have the internet now, you know, we have television, the way that we connect to people. We have commercial air, fly commercial airlines, like we're more connected than we've ever been. Now you could argue that that's detrimental to civilization to a degree. Uh, and in some cases has sort of sped up it's implosion. Um, that being said, like this sort of post World War II world order that we're living in is young. And, you know, 50 years ago or 55, like black people in this country didn't have the right to vote. Vote, at least in the, in the south, in the segregated south. We didn't have the internet, or at least we didn't have like, social media in a saturated form 15 years ago. There was no streaming music or streaming video, video conferencing. Like this wasn't a thing. These were pipe dreams for a long time.  

Kristin:    01:04:47    It's a very bizarre time to think that people thought like, okay, we're just gonna do, you know, we're gonna go home for two weeks. And then everyone was mad, like, what if it's a month? And then it's like things escalated quickly to like what, where we are now. And, and I, I feel like in a way, like that book, there's this book on my table right now called Digital Nomad that was written or it was published in 1997 and it basically predicted the way that we have been living for the past like 10 to 15 years. And I feel like it was a big coincidence that I happened to be born at this time because I remember thinking in high school, like, when is the US empire going to fall? 'cause we were learning about world history and um, I first went outta the country when I was 16 and I saw, you know, the ruins of the Roman Empire and, you know, you learn about World War I and World War ii and all the different revolutions and all of the, the Ottoman Empire and like 

Kristin:    01:05:56    Just all the changes that happened. And it just made me think like, when is our civilization gonna collapse? And I'm not saying that like I, you know, I think that something better will come out of this, but it is weird to be like living through this time that's unfolding at a very fast pace, but it's very confusing at the same time and you don't know if it's gonna get worse before it gets better. So yeah, I guess what I, I guess like what I'm trying to say is that, you know, we're all like, we're all in this together and we can't, we can't predict, but what will happen and in a way we're kind of mourning what was but we're also making room for something new and, you know, hopefully, we'll, we'll all be around to see it. Yeah. I guess just, you know, doing what you can from, from home and still, still keeping those, those ideas in mind.  

Kristin:    01:07:03    And also your own travel experiences. Like you wrote that your month across the pond, across the Atlantic changed how you saw yourself, how you saw your life, how you saw your purpose in the world. It recontextualize everything you ever knew, lived felt about what it means to be alive, American human. You write, it rewired my brain, just traveling over there. It reinvigorated my soul the whole journey. I felt truth. And, um, do you feel like you still hold on to that seed of truth and potential? Is that giving you like hope for the future as you get through the day to day on house arrest?  

John:    01:07:54    It doesn't gimme hope. And I know it, it sounds bleak only because I don't know if I'm ever gonna experience specifically that, but it does gimme a place to drill into. I always feel like the core of our being is actually a really small part of our, our, our lifetime, like capital T truth is really difficult to find. Even most of the things that we believe about ourselves are ideas that were incepted into us either by, you know, our, our our parents or our peers or our country or, you know, various pieces of propaganda or news or education that we consume or entertainment. And so a lot of what we are at our core, a lot of what's true about being alive a lot about a lot of what's true about what's actually happening around us is, is obscured a lot by a lot of things that are either half truths or lies or what have you.  

John:    01:09:00    And in America this seems to be sort of its own particular brand of, you know, tsunami of lies. And particularly in my life where like I didn't know who I was and I, I didn't, most cases I still don't think I found that. But I, I, I do think that I've gotten to a point where I know some of what's true about me when I divorce myself from everything when I divorce myself, from the context of being American or even from the context of being a writer or from the context of, you know, being someone who grew up where I grew up with whom I grew up. You know, who am I divorced from all I know a couple things, but I, I, I know, I know what I'm working toward. I know I'm working toward being satisfied and I know I'm working toward feeling like I'm, I'm at home like I belong somewhere.  

John:    01:09:54    And the closer I get to those things, the, the more at peace I will feel and the less that desire to move across the pond will be. Now it's easier to find those things in countries that I think are, are more gentle and more calm and more stable. But it doesn't mean it's impossible to find that in a place like here now you can still find those things, it's just much harder and it requires more effort internally, which I think, you know, as you mentioned about, you know, the guy who was locked up, like if you can flex those muscles and build those muscles in a situation like that or like this, then when the settings go back to quote unquote easy, it makes it a lot easier for you to do. So I'm hoping that like by just sort of training my brain to recognize what's true versus what's probably not and what's normal with versus what's probably not and what's endemic and elemental to reality versus what's peripheral to it, I think that makes it easier for me to find those things elsewhere and in another time and also lessens my desire to be elsewhere and be in another time.  

Kristin:    01:11:12    Yeah. I actually found an article that I wrote a couple years ago that says, you don't have to leave home to be a digital nomad. That was kind of inspired by true an RV I saw in Mexico and on the side of the RV it was painted, my home is in my head and I thought, yeah, because it doesn't matter where you are in the world. Like sometimes this is going back thousands of years of humanity, travel has been used as an escape in many ways, even though there's many benefits to travel. It was something that back during the Roman Empire, the elitist would like go on these voyages that was all like kind of for their ego and it was a way for them to pass the time basically because it was like the idol rich, right? Um, but you don't have to go anywhere to have like this spirit of freedom and you don't have to be trapped if you don't allow yourself to be trapped.  

Kristin:    01:12:15    And like even monks who were imprisoned in China, you know, Tibetan monks, they actually showed no signs of trauma or PTSD after 'cause of their strong inner practice and that inner work. So this is an opportunity for all of us to kind of go back to basics, go inside and strengthen that foundation, both of our inner emotional state and resilience and also the outer state connecting with other people trying to find truth and then trying to find some consistency, some routines, some financial security. You know, just keeping all of these things floating at the same time so that when this storm passes will be in a better place to emerge out into the world. You know, my mom just, my mom and dad just raised a hundred or more monarch butterflies. I think they might have had like 200 butterflies and I was there for a couple of the weeks.

Kristin:    01:13:19    While they were going through the process. And I was just thinking yesterday as I was cooking, I was like staring out the window. Like I kind of feel like a butterfly. Like I feel like we're all in this like little cocoon self-made cocoon metamorphosis. And it's like we are in control of how we get through this and what our lives are like on the other side, of course there's external factors that are affecting it, but really like we have to take responsibility in this time to come out better than we went in to the cocoon. And I know that both of us saw that video that went viral on YouTube about, uh, what was it? Yeah. Like how to come out of the, the quarantine better than you started like to like take care of yourself. It was like one of those animated videos I'm gonna find it in.

John:  I didn't see, see that. I didn't see that you

Kristin: And you're like, yeah, I watched that video. It was like an animated video on YouTube. Um, Spaceship You that's what it was.  

John:    01:14:22    Oh, okay. Yes, yes.  

Kristin:    01:14:23    Okay. And it was like tips on how to eat healthy and sleep and exercise and work all from inside of your room, like in your physical apartment or your home. And, um, so I'll link to that in the show notes so that people can watch it. But yeah, that's all we can do right now. And, and we can still keep that spirit of like freedom and creation and using whatever tools you have. Like for you it's writing for me it's definitely writing video, podcasting, like connecting with people online and my Facebook group and stuff like that. And it's like we can just do what we can do right now and we can't worry about what, what's not in our control. And for a lot of people it's also protesting and for you it's writing for politicians that are trying to change the world and um, and so I I just would encourage everybody to uh, just take it day by day and um, know that it is, it is a rollercoaster sometimes, but you just gotta keep going. I read this book called The Long Walk that I recommend. Have you ever read that book?  

John:    01:15:32    I don't think so.  

Kristin:    01:15:34    I found it. Um, I was actually house sitting for this old man, he was like 85 years old, an architect who lived in Nicaragua. His name was Jean and I hope he is still alive. I don't know. Um, he was going to visit family in California and he asked if I would watch his house while he was gone. And so I stayed there. He was like my only friend <laugh> in Nicaragua. And uh, he had all these books and one of the books was called The Long Walk and it was, I think it was based on a true story and it was about how some people escaped from prison in Siberia and they walked to India and it's about that journey and like the lesson in it is just one foot in front of the other. You just keep going. And they didn't know how far they were.  

Kristin:    01:16:26    They didn't know what their destination was. All they could do was keep going and like, spoiler alert, not all of them made it as I'm sure you might assume.  Um, but yeah, I mean that's it. Like this, I wanna reread that book actually. That would be a great book to read right now because it does, it's sad, but it gives you, it gives you hope and um, you know, they traverse jungles and deserts. Like imagine the topography between Siberia and India like it's crazy. So I imagine just getting dropped off in the desert and not knowing what direction you're going or how long it's gonna take to get across it. Like that's where we are right now. But we just keep going. I wanna do a quick lightning round to get just a few more tips from you, but, and I'll also link to your profile so that people can like, explore some of your writing because there's so much there from self-help to productivity, to politics and um, society, culture, everything. So we'll definitely link to your stuff and probably have you on again. Hopefully one day we can go meet up in Portugal, drink some wine, have a <laugh>, have a conversation and be like, oh, remember when we were locked in our houses? Good times. Okay.  

John:    01:17:41    Alright. Sounds nice.  

Kristin:    01:17:46    What is your favorite, what is your go-to morning beverage?  

John:    01:17:50    Coffee Black. 

Kristin:    01:17:51     Any? Okay. Just black. Hot, cold, hot. Favorite coffee shop in Austin?  

John:    01:17:59    Ooh, um, Medici.  

Kristin:    01:18:04    Medici. Okay. And, and other-- like Austin. We gotta do like an Austin restaurant recommendation because there's just such a cool place.  

John:    01:18:17    Justine's French restaurant on the east side.  

Kristin:    01:18:20    Ooh, love French food. Uh, Mac or PC because you did work at Dell?

John:  PC.

Kristin:  PC I knew it. Favorite type of music because you played music.  

John:    01:18:34    Favorite type jazz.  

Kristin:    01:18:38    And what did you play?  

John:    01:18:41    Drums and guitar and singer.  

Kristin:    01:18:43    Okay. What is your first travel memory?  

John:    01:18:48    Driving down to Alabama with my family to move there and staying at a motel in Kentucky.  

Kristin:    01:18:59    Favorite travel moment that you remember from your Euro trip?  

John:    01:19:04    Ooh, finding the last house my family lived in before we moved to America-- in Marseille 

Kristin:    01:19:10   Wow. In Marseille.  

John:    01:19:14    70 years ago.  

Kristin:    01:19:16    Okay. Favorite food that you ate in Europe or meal?  

John:    01:19:20    The Bouillabaisse that I had in In Marseille also at, um, I can't remember the name of the cafe, but it was, it was like a lunch and I love Bouillabaisse and I had it and I was just like weeping delightful.  

Kristin:    01:19:38    Food just tastes so much better in France. It's like, not even fair.  

John:    01:19:41    It's not fair. No, it's the way it's farmed and it's, it's, there's a whole host of other reasons but yeah, it's not fair to us.  

Kristin:    01:19:51    Favorite Netflix show right now? Or like a Netflix rec  

John:    01:19:57    On Netflix? I don't watch a lot of Netflix. Um, I don't know. Pass.  

Kristin:    01:20:06    Pass. Okay, I'll give you mine. Mine is Chef's Table.  

John:    01:20:09    Okay. Okay. That's done.  

Kristin:    01:20:11    It just reminded me 'cause you were talking about food in France and Chef's Table. France. I highly recommend if, if you guys haven't seen it, it has subtitles. It's in French, it has English subtitles. It's so good. And we will make you just wanna eat a lot, so be careful. Um, one person that you like following on social media.  

John:    01:20:32    Alright. So it'd have to be Instagram.  

Kristin:    01:20:36    I thought you were gonna say a OC.  

John:    01:20:38    No, that's, that's a, that's, I mean I do someone who's really great to follow. I'm trying to think of like someone that's kind of under the radar. Uh, random human who I think, gosh.  

Kristin:    01:20:59    Or on Medium. Like a writer on Medium. 

John:    01:21:02    Oh,  Writer on me--writer on Medium. Scott Galloway. Actually. Scott Galloway anywhere. LinkedIn, Medium,Twitter. I like him a lot. Real similar Ethos. Irreverent Smart. Seems like he's got his head screwed on right. His heart in the right place. Witty, handsome.  

Kristin:    01:21:23    Gonna check him out.  

John:    01:21:25    Yeah.  

Kristin:    01:21:26    Um, what is one place on your travel bucket list?  

John:    01:21:31    Egypt.  

Kristin:    01:21:33    Ooh, nice one. I actually was obsessed with Egypt in elementary school. I read a ton of books about it and I miss like Cleopatra for Halloween. <laugh> <laugh>.  

John:    01:21:43    You look just like her.  

Kristin:    01:21:45    Yeah, the blonde hair gives it away.  

John:    01:21:47    <laugh> 

Kristin:    01:21:48    Um, this is a good one. Remote work tool that you use frequently or you can't live without?  

John:    01:21:57    Google Docs  

Kristin:    01:21:59    Layup.  

John:    01:22:00    I know. I don't use--  

Kristin:    01:22:02    You're just a writer so yeah. Google Docs makes sense. Yeah. Uh, productivity tip. 'cause I know that you have a bunch of them. What is your, you are so productive. What is your one productivity tip for everybody?  

John:    01:22:17    Schedule. Schedule your deep work for whatever time of day you feel your best. So for me that's between like, it's mornings usually like eight and noon. And then the other one is do everything in 20 minutes or 50 minute bursts and just take your 10 minute breaks in between just so it gives you a chance to like toggle and reset and, you know, mess around and text people back.  

Kristin:    01:22:44    Yeah, I like that. I like doing like a 50 minute work block. Yep. Um, tip for staying healthy during quarantine. Mental or physical?

John:    01:22:55    Go easy on the booze.  

Kristin:    01:22:57    What are you grateful for?  

John:    01:22:59    Air conditioning.  

Kristin:    01:23:02    And why do you travel?  

John:    01:23:04    To immerse myself in places, cultures, people, and things that are outside the realm of the norm so that I can incorporate life experience into things I do later.  

Kristin:    01:23:18    Perfect answer that's a great way to wrap up this crazy interview. This is an awesome conversation. Thank you so much for coming on and I, I hope that everybody listening learned a lot. I got a really funny review the other day that was like, Kristin's podcast is good for like learning and laughing or something like that. Learning, living and laughing. So I think we did, we did some of that today. And um, everybody, I will link to John's profile and content in the show notes. Do you have any last words for the audience?  

John:    01:24:01    Stay inside and wear a mask. If you must.  

Kristin:    01:24:05    Wash your hands.  

John:    01:24:06    Wash your hands. Don't be an idiot people.  

Kristin:    01:24:10    We're all in this together. All right, see you guys next week.  

John:    01:24:14    Thanks for having me.  

Kristin:    01:24:16    Bye. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, you can support the podcast and look cool while you're doing it by checking out our new merch. Over on teespring.com/stores/TravelingwithKristin. We have t-shirts, pink tops stickers, coffee mugs, hoodies, cell phone cases, bags and more. Again, that's at teespring.com/stores/TravelingwithKristin.