How to Make Any Business Location-Independent with Matt Bowles, Host of The Maverick Show

Sneak Peek:

Matt:    00:00:00    Listen to every episode of Badass Digital Nomads. Listen to every episode of the Maverick Show and just pump into your brain that there is all of these regular people that are just like you, that were able to figure out the path to do this. And they're willing to tell you blueprint tactically for free, exactly how they did it.  

Kristin:    00:00:20    Yeah, you wanna literally reprogram your brain, you wanna brainwash yourself in a positive way and just flood it with example, after example, after example of how these people are doing things. And eventually it's gonna click. 

Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests.

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Kristin:    00:02:14    Hi everyone, Kristin from Traveling with Kristin here and welcome to episode 99 of Badass Digital Nomads. My guest today is none other than Matthew Bowles, fellow digital nomad and host of the Maverick Show podcast. Matt has interviewed more than 125 entrepreneurs to date, including some of today's most interesting real estate investors and world travelers. Matt is also the co-founder of the Maverick Investor Group, a fully distributed location independent real estate business that helps people invest in high performing passive income rental properties from anywhere in the world. I first met Matt in 2018 back on the Nomad Cruise Mediterranean edition, and we've been friends ever since. You can catch more of Matt's backstory on his first episode of Badass Digital Nomads, Episode 15 by going to badassdigitalnomads.com/15. We recorded that interview on the beach in Brazil, but today's episode is focused exclusively on how to turn a traditional business model into a location independent one, one that gives you the freedom and financial flexibility to live or travel anywhere in the world while working online. Matt has run his business for more than 85 countries around the world since launching his company in 2007. So this episode is packed with tactical, actionable tips on how to convert any business model into a remote business. We also wrap up the episode with some of his tips and advice for starting a podcast of your own, plus a travel focus lightning round on his favorite places in the world, the most underrated places he's been, what he looks for in a digital nomad destination, and countries that he would consider living in full-time in the future.  

Podcast Interview:

Kristin:    00:04:37    Well, welcome Mr. Matt Bowles to the show. It is so great to have you back on Badass Digital Nomads, and I always love interviewing fellow podcasters. So welcome, welcome, welcome. How does it feel to be back on Badass Digital Nomads?  

Matt:    00:04:54    It feels amazing because you are one of my favorite people. This is one of my favorite podcasts. And tonight we have agreed to do this as a wine induced interview.  

Kristin:    00:05:04    Yes. And actually, I usually do not drink wine during my podcast. I should do this more often. We'll go in the Maverick Show fashion, tell us what you're drinking.  

Matt:    00:05:16    Yeah, this was definitely my, uh, my influence tonight on having the podcast Wine Night because on the Maverick Show, I try to have as many interviews as possible over a bottle of wine. And so when I'm interviewing people in person around the world, uh, we open a bottle of wine together, uh, as you know, because you've been on the Maverick Show three times now. Uh, and then when we're doing it virtually now through the pandemic and stuff, it's been kind of the virtual wine nights. But I have actually just opened a really nice bottle of Italian red wine. This is a Valpolicella, which is from the Veneto region in Italy, and it's a red blend, but the primary varietal is the Corvino grape.  

Kristin:    00:05:58    Oh, very nice. I have opened a bottle of, I can't pronounce it, 2015 from Saint-Émilion in France, a place that is very dear to my heart. Uh, as you well know, I gave you some travel tips for, for the Wine region of France a couple years ago, and we had planned a Maverick show retreat there for last summer, which didn't happen because of the pandemic, but I'm really looking forward to that. But it is a nice change of pace to, um, be sipping wine instead of slamming iced coffee <laugh> during my interview. So Well.  

Matt:    00:06:31    You, you definitely put me on to Santa Emiliana. We should just give a big shout out because I spent a month in the French wine country in 2018 in the summer, and I told you that I was going and that I was gonna be going through Bordeaux. And you are the one that said, listen, if you go to one Wine Appellation, you do one tour, you do wine tasting at one place, go to San, it's magical. It's enchanting, it's incredible. I wrote it down immediately. I said, if Kristin Wilson says go, I'm going. Uh, organized it, did it, and it was just in incredible. So anybody that is interested in an extraordinary French wine country experience, 100%. I've been telling everybody now since you told me Saint-Émilion go.

Kristin:    00:07:13    It's like a dream. And you guys, it is very affordable. I didn't know how affordable it would be and Bordeaux as well. I don't know about you, but I had this image in my head that maybe because of Napa Valley and all the different wine tastings in the US like how expensive it is to go there, and I just expected that France would be the same or more expensive, but really it was, it, it probably cost me the same amount of money as going out to lunch at Chili's or something. It just blew my mind. Yeah.

Matt:    00:07:43    It really was a highlight of the entire month that I spent there. I mean, we went through Burgundy, which is a completely epic wine region as well. And we went to this huge wine festival in Bordeaux that happens like once every two years, and they have all the wineries from like a hundred gro crew wineries come down to this festival in Bordeaux and you can do tastings and stuff. And so we went to all of that and then we went out to San Émilion and the wine tasting, I'll never forget it that we did in San Émilion was literally the highlight of the month. I was with our mutual friend, Jen McGee, and we were out there, we had done all of this stuff in France, and then it was the San Émilion wine tasting where it just blew our minds. And that's the place that Jen bought a case from. She's like, this is the best wine I've had so far in France. I'll take a case of it and chip it home.  

Kristin:    00:08:30    Me too. I have, this is my second to last bottle from that case of wine in, uh, 2017, but it is a special occasion to have you here, so had to do it.

Matt:  Aw.

Kristin:  Can't wait to drink wine again in person. So everyone listening, I'll, we'll link to some of the, some of the places that we went in St. Émilion in the show notes, so you can check it out. But definitely if you like wine, put it on your bucket list. While life has changed a bit since, since the days of trekking through St. Émilion sipping wine, where are you right now in the US and how has this past year for you? Give us just a, a recap of what it's been like for you.  

Matt:    00:09:10    Yeah, so right now I am in the Blue Ridge mountains of Western North Carolina in the United States. I am in Asheville specifically, and I have been here for a good portion of the year. My parents live here. And so I was actually home visiting them because I come home every year, you know, I've been full-time, itinerant nomad since 2013. And what I typically do is I travel around the world for about 11 months of the year and then I come home for the holidays and New Years and, you know, visit with family and spend quality time with the folks because for me, being location independent means being able to one, travel and go to epic places and hang out with amazing friends and all that, and also spend, you know, extra quality time with family and people I care about as well. Right. So I, I sort of do both of those things, uh, in my life.  

Matt:    00:10:01    And so I was here doing that, uh, family visit portion of it, and then all of a sudden COVID happened and I had all of these travel plans for 2020. Uh, you and I were definitely gonna cross paths, you know, I was supposed to speak on the Nomad Cruise and I was supposed to speak at the, the Nomad Summit in Tbilisi, Georgia. And I was on to speak at a conference in Bali and I, you know, I had this whole itinerary set and then Covid happened <laugh>, and I was like, well, I guess that itinerary is not happening this year. And so I pretty much just stayed here in Asheville. I did spend a few months in Washington DC I have a number of friends there, my business partner is there and stuff. So I was in DC for a bit and then I've been in Asheville pretty much the rest of the time.  

Matt:    00:10:43    But it's been, you know, for me it's obviously a shakeup of course because normally you and I are traveling around the world and all of that, and we had that restriction on us because of the pandemic. And so, I mean, for me, basically the way that I pivoted is just to say, okay, well what's the silver lining of this? Like, wow, I get to spend way more time with my family than I normally do in a year. Like let me be appreciative of that. Let me take advantage of that. And then, you know, what other kind of things can you take advantage of if you're living in one place the whole year? I'll tell you this, we got a Peloton <laugh> if people don't know what a Peloton exercise bike is, you may have heard the hype. If you have heard the hype, it's all real.  

Matt:    00:11:24    I mean, it has been absolutely spectacular. So I've been doing Peloton biking, you know, I mean the gym is closed and everything, right? So I've been doing the Peloton bikes like six days a week, like working out, you know, doing all this stuff, which of course I wouldn't be able to do if I was traveling around and moving around and all that. And, um, you know, it's been, it's been really cool, you know, just to sort of say, okay, this is the reality of the situation within this reality. What can I appreciate about it? What can I, you know, what can I do here that's gonna be really great, maybe that I wouldn't be able to do while I was traveling? So I've just been sort of taking that perspective.  

Kristin:    00:11:56    Have you changed anything about your business model? Because what we're going to talk about today on the show is about how people in traditional industries can make their business remote businesses, how they can transform their regular business into a location independent business. And you and your partners had thought about that when you set up the business. So did anything change in the past year or was it just business as usual?  

Matt:    00:12:25    Business as usual, which is the great thing about having a location, independent business. It means you can run it from one place under lockdown during a pandemic, or you can run it while you're traveling around the world to a whole bunch of countries and tasting wine and doing epic stuff and, and whatever, right? So doesn't matter your, if your business is virtual and it's truly location independent, then you know, you can do it from anywhere. So for us it's been just consistent business as usual.  

Kristin:    00:12:50    What do you miss the most about your life since 2013? Like what are you looking forward to the most when you can travel again?  

Matt:    00:13:02    Well, I mean, for me, part of it is the places that I go, right? Like we're talking about like Santa Emilion and what that's like and tasting those wines and seeing that scenery and being in that place and like how epic that is. So part of it is the place, and of course the, you know, food and the wine and the things that are in that place. And part of it is the people, right? Like you and I hang out probably multiple times a year. We also immerse ourselves in communities of nomads. We meet up with friends, we travel with really cool people that are, that are important to us and that we have a great time with and all of that. So for me, I think the hardest part has been the social isolation that I've experienced this year. That's been probably the single hardest thing, I mean, for me, right?  

Matt:    00:13:49    'cause normally I'm a pretty extroverted, pretty social person. I really thrive on social connection with friends and people and it's both meeting new people as well as like seeing like, you know, friends that I love, right? So for me, I, I'd say the social isolation has been the number one hardest thing that I'm looking forward to getting back to after the pandemic. And then after that, certainly just the, the thrill and amazingness of traveling to new places or places that I love, right? Going back to San Émilion and having some more of that wine, right? Like I do kind of both of those things, right? And so I'm, I'm excited about all of it, you know, post pandemic, once things are back to normal and things are safe and things are open, I just, I mean it's just gonna be amazing.  

Kristin:    00:14:30    And have you ventured into any sort of planning for sometime in 2021 or beyond, or are you still in a holding pattern?  

Matt:    00:14:38    So I have not made specific plans for specific places. I have ideas on things that I would like to do and people with whom I'd like to do them and things that got canceled in 2020 that I want to put back on the itinerary and stuff. But I haven't actually locked anything in yet. I'm gonna sort of wait until just to see what my timing looks like. When can I get the vaccine? When are these countries gonna be open up and normal, right? Because if you're gonna go somewhere, you want to experience it in a particular way, you don't want to experience it during lockdown, right? So when is it gonna make sense to get all of the great things out of travel that we, that we love to get out of travel and when will it be safe to go and do that? So whenever that sort of is the case, then I'll be uh, yeah, making some awesome plans. Yeah.

Kristin:    00:15:21    I know. So I'm in the same position. I am kind of just in a holding pattern waiting for the conditions to feel right. I think in this case it's an intuitive thing. It's not just the practicality of which countries are open because there are a lot of countries open right now. But I think it's been really interesting to see how new digital nomads or people who have become newly remote workers, maybe from New York or other big cities, have been freed, so to speak for the first time. And they're venturing down to Mexico. You know, Tulum has become a big hotspot play El Carmen and it's like the veteran nomads have been a bit more cautious with travel. I found that to be quite interesting. But I guess it makes sense if you are remote for the first time, you're not gonna waste any time. You're gonna GTFO and you're gonna get to the beach in Mexico because this is the first and you know, they didn't know if it could be the last opportunity or if this was gonna remain a thing and remain the new normal. But have you noticed that as well?  

Matt:    00:16:26    Yeah, I mean I think that's right. I think that's right. And I think also what you said about this whole pandemic thing and the forced remote work situation has just catapulted the remote work movement forward, you know, 10 plus years faster than it would have moved.

Kristin:  Yeah.

Matt:  Had we not had a pandemic, because now number one, the employers realize, oh actually our employees can work from home just fine and deliver the same results. And oh, by the way, we can have a lot less overhead if we don't have to pay for their office space and we can just allow them to do that. And then on the other side, you've got the employees that are now saying, I ain't going back to the office, man, I can do my work. <laugh>, you've seen it. I want this freedom. And so what that's gonna create or has already created is a reality where the best talent wants to work from wherever they want, whenever they want. And the companies that are gonna recruit the best talent are gonna have to offer that as a benefit, right? Have that lifestyle freedom as a benefit. Because if they won't offer it, then the best talent is gonna go work for another company that is.

Kristin:    00:17:35    Definitely, I was actually just having this conversation with a guy in my coworking space last night in Miami. We were both burning the midnight oil, or more like 10:00 PM, 9 or 10:00 PM and he works in distressed commercial real estate. And he was giving me the inside scoop on how everyone in his industry is just talking about what's going to happen three years from now and five years from now, and even 10 years from now when all of these commercial leases come up. Of course some are expiring now, but a lot of those commercial leases, those office leases are long term and they're, I mean, it's kind of good for their industry 'cause they're in distressed real estate, but at in general, there's a lot of buzz in the real estate industry over what's going to happen. And as long term nomads, we've seen the writing on the wall for a long time, but it is quite a shock to the mainstream and you actually work in the real estate industry. So I would love to delve into some of the trends that you've seen across the US and we can talk more about what you do. So your full backstory, people can find in the, the last podcast that you were on the last episode of Badass Digital Nomads, which was at the end of 2018, which we'll link in the show notes where we were in Brazil recording outside, which was really fun, <laugh>. But give everybody just an overview of what your business model is.  

Matt:    00:19:06    Sure. So Maverick Investor Group is the name of my company. We are a real estate brokerage and we serve real estate investors exclusively. So specifically what we do is we help people buy cash flowing rental properties in the best US real estate markets, regardless of where they live, okay. From anywhere in the United States or anywhere in the world. They can buy and own cash flowing residential investment property in the United States. So we are talking about single family homes primarily, in some cases two to four unit properties. And they're either brand new construction houses or they're fully renovated houses, and they already have a long-term tenant in place on a lease paying rent. And they already have a local property management company who is collecting the rent, handling the maintenance, dealing with the tenant calls and all that kind of stuff. So you can buy the real estate, you actually own the house, you own the deeded asset, and you get all the benefits of that, but you don't have to be the rehabber -- 

Kristin:    00:20:11    And you have clients from all over the world, right?  

Matt:    00:20:13    All over the world. That's right. So if you're in the United States, or if you're outside the United States, doesn't matter. Anybody can buy and own us rental properties and you know, we're doing them in markets that are particularly advantageous to real estate investors where you can buy a nice house, I mean like detached single family home in a suburban neighborhood with a yard and granite countertops and all of that for somewhere between a hundred thousand and 200,000 US dollars, right? Either brand new or fully renovated house. Okay? So people from California or New York City might think that sounds crazy because you know that that type of a house in, in those expensive markets would be super expensive and it wouldn't cash flow and all of that. But in these markets, you can buy a really nice house for a relatively low price, and then you can rent it for an amount that covers all of your expenses.  

Matt:    00:21:03    Plus it covers a, a, an assumption for vacancy and maintenance, which will inevitably occur. Plus it has a positive cash flow on top of that that comes into your pocket every single month as passive residual income. So we're helping people build portfolios of rental properties. So depending where people are financially, maybe they've own, they're at the earlier part of their investing journey, they've only saved up enough money to buy one property. Or maybe people have been, you know, I'm helping clients now, some clients are able to buy 10 properties in one year because they've worked for, you know, saved up a lot of money. Maybe they have it in mutual funds or other types of investments, and they understand the value of, of investing in real estate and specifically of generating this passive income. So they're able to come in and just start buying, you know, 10 properties a year type of thing.  

Matt:    00:21:51    So whether you're able to buy your first property or whether you want to buy 10 in the first year, either way, we work with all folks and we customize our services to help people develop a plan based on where they are right now financially. Okay. So how do you build a portfolio over time based on your current financial situation and your income over the next year or two years, three years? How fast can you build your portfolio and what will that look like in terms of passive income, in terms of appreciation and wealth, uh, accumulation, all of that kind of stuff. So we work with all of our clients no matter where they're starting from on a customized basis. And we have, yeah, clients all over the US and all over the world.  

Kristin:    00:22:31    That's awesome. So what are some of the markets that are doing well right now? What are some of the opportunities in the US because people have been moving to all different areas since the pandemic started. So have you seen a lot of changes in your business model and the locations you're recommending?  

Matt:    00:22:48    Yeah, so one of the things that we built into our business model from the very beginning is the agility to help people buy in different real estate markets as market dynamics change and certain markets become more or less advantageous to buy in, right? So, you know, most traditional real estate companies, real estate professionals are tied to one market, right? If you're a traditional real estate agent, you are licensed in one market, you have to work in one market, you can only sell houses that are in driving distance from your house that you can drive people to, and that's your universe of things that you have to sell. Whatever happens in that market, it goes up, it goes down, you know, this happens, that happens. That's all you have to sell <laugh>. So you have to tell people that that's always the best thing to buy, right?  

Matt:    00:23:34    And the same thing with most home builders or anybody, like they have, they're building a project, they have one place to sell, one city to sell, and they have to then retrofit their marketing materials to tell you, you should buy this because it's the only thing I have to sell. We, as we designed our business model, wanted to flip that entirely around and say, how could we put, put the real estate investor first and not just have a product and then figure out how to sell it, but rather say, okay, the real estate investor comes first. We wanna work with our clients on a long-term individualized relationship basis, and help them buy in the best markets over time, regardless of where they live, as those markets change. So just to give you an example, right? Like we back right after the real estate crash, 2009, 2010, we were selling a lot of properties in Phoenix, Arizona.  

Matt:    00:24:21    It was one of the first markets to peak. It was one of the first markets to crash. There was a bunch of properties there that were a great deal at that time. Well, that market has soared up in value, and home prices have gone up way more than the rents. So now if you were to buy in that same market, you'd be paying a lot more money, but you wouldn't be getting enough extra rent to make that a a, a sensible sort of investment, right? From a cashflow perspective. So now, so, so since then, we've been able to take people to other markets. So we've probably helped people buy real estate in over 12 different US states and oftentimes multiple cities within those states. And so we have the agility to help our clients buy in the best markets at the time that they're ready to buy, right?  

Matt:    00:25:06    So if they wanna buy a bunch of properties this year, and then three years from now, maybe there will be a better market that'll be a better fit for their criteria, and we can help them diversify over time and across markets. So, so that's pretty much how we've set it up. And so right now, to answer your question, I mean, there are different advantages to different markets. So it's not like, oh, there's this one objectively best market that's the right fit for every single person, right? There's a range and sort of a continuum of buying criteria or risk tolerance, comfort level, all that kind of stuff that every investor has, right? So we go through all those conversations with people, understand what's gonna be the best fit for them, and then help them to buy it. So it could be our new construction, single family homes in Jacksonville, Florida, or it could be our renovated single family homes in Kansas City, Missouri, Midwestern market there.  

Matt:    00:25:56    But the basic commonality of the types of things we look for are markets that have positive economic indicators from a real estate investment perspective. People are moving into those markets. Population is increasing, it's putting upward pressure on rents, it's putting upward pressure on home prices, jobs are being created there, unemployment is below the national average. People are moving there to take those jobs, right? And so all of that stuff is what gives you a strong pool of tenants and puts upward pressure on home prices, which is really where you want to be as the investor.  

Kristin:    00:26:32    Are you seeing an influx of people in positive market indicators into tax-free states or places with a lower cost of living better climate as more people go remote?  

Matt:    00:26:46    Uh, yes. I think that that is, you know, there's definitely demand for places that have a, a optimal cost of living to quality of life ratio. And this is often the same thing that you and I have been observing about the globe for Nomads. What kind of lifestyle can you get and what do you have to pay to get that? And there's some places around the world too that are very inexpensive, but also the quality of life is, is not super spectacular, right? And then there's some places where the quality of life is insane, but you are paying for it <laugh>, right?

Kristin:  Oh yeah.

Matt:  And then there's those places where you're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe how good the quality of life is and how little I am paying, right? So it's kind of like the same thing, right? Sure. Like around the US you know, there's places where you can get properties and cost of living and all this other kind of stuff for really incredible prices and rates. And then you're like, wow, this is actually a really cool city. So yeah, absolutely. I think that's happening domestically as well.  

Kristin:    00:27:49    So you're working in places like Kansas City and Jacksonville, and you're based in Asheville, and then you're all over the world. How did, and and you, just to clarify, you did not have any real estate experience before starting Maverick Investor Group. So take us back to when you were developing this concept with no online business experience. How did you figure out how to transform a traditional, a traditionally geographically dependent industry like real estate into a location independent business? And how did you do that being it being your first online business, and how did you even find your partners that were willing to go in on this crazy idea?  

Matt:    00:28:36    Those are all really good questions. So I, my whole background, I have a bachelor's degree in sociology. I have a master's degree in international Peace and conflict resolution. And I worked in the nonprofit advocacy space, you know, doing social justice, human rights, civil liberties, advocacy work my entire career, that's all my professional work, right up until the age of 30, at which point, that was where my entrepreneurial transition happened. So the first thing is that what I was doing while I was working in the nonprofit space, I said to myself, okay, I'm, I'm doing really important work. I'm impacting positive change in the world. And so I, I'm just, I'm feel thankful that I'm getting paid to do this great work. Like, this is really amazing, it's really important to me, it's close to my heart and all that, but I'm never gonna make any money <laugh> doing this, so I better learn how to invest.  

Matt:    00:29:26    So what I did is I started, I bought a primary home, I rented out three bedrooms to friends of mine. I started getting stream of income, the house appreciated in one year more than my entire annual salary <laugh>. And I was like, whoa, that's crazy. So then what I started to do was, I literally read every book I could read about real estate. I was like, that's insane. And so then I started buying out of state rental properties while I was working at the nonprofit, right? I'm, I'm buying properties in, you know, other states outside of my own multiple states, right? And so then my friends came to me and they're like, dude, how are you buying multiple rental properties while you're working at a nonprofit <laugh>? I was like, let me show you <laugh> <laugh>. And so I'm literally like helping my friends buy rental properties.  

Matt:    00:30:14    'cause they, most of my friends are like all activists and working in the nonprofits. So he is like, they don't know much about like financial investing stuff either. I'm like, oh, let me show you. I read all these books and here what I'm doing. So then I started helping my friends buy this. So what I, what I, but, and what I realized as we were buying these rental properties is that there were the real estate brokers that were helping us to buy them were getting paid a fee, you know, like a commission, but I wasn't paying it. And I was like, well, that's really cool. It's great. Like they're providing me value. Like, that's cool. They're getting paid. Like I'm not paying it. So <laugh>, that's great. And the reason of course is because in the United States, the seller of the property pays a hundred percent of the brokerage fees, right?  

Kristin: Right.

Matt:    00:30:51     So, so then my friends come in and they start buying properties and the brokers are making money from all of the properties my friends buy, but my friends aren't paying that. So I'm like, oh, that's cool. But I started to understand the business model. So I understood that number one, there was a demand for me to help people buy rental properties. And I could do that. And there was a way to get paid for doing that. But I didn't have to charge my friends any money. I'm like, if I can get on the brokerage side of this thing, I can actually collect fees and get paid money for helping people buy rental properties, but I don't have to charge them anything. That's crazy. It's like the best of all worlds. I don't have to sell anything. I don't have to charge my friends a dime, but if I get a real estate brokerage license, I can do this and I can get paid for it.  

Matt:    00:31:37    So that model clicked for me. That resonated for me. And so what happened was I was unexpectedly one day fired from my job. I walked into the office, got blindsided, and I, and by five o'clock that day I was outta the office. They took my phone, it was a company phone and my laptop and all this kind of stuff. I'm literally driving to the cell phone store to buy a phone to call my mom to tell her I was fired. 'cause I didn't even have a phone. And on that drive, literally, Kristin, I said to myself, you know what? I think this is a sign. I am not gonna apply for another job to work for another person, to have another supervisor. 'cause this could just happen again. I am going to figure out how to start my own business. And so I then I said, problem number one, don't know how to start a business <laugh>.  

Matt:    00:32:25    And so, but I said, you know what though? I I do understand this real estate investment thing. I do know that people want me to help them to do it, and I do understand how to monetize that without having to charge my customers a dime. So I really like that concept. I'm gonna go now figure out how to build a business around that and how to do it. So this is 2007, I go to the bookstore, I start reading books on how to start a business. All of a sudden, one day I walk into the bookstore and I'm looking on the new business book section. And one day I see a brand new book there called The 4-Hour Work Week by Tim Ferriss. I picked that book up, I read it the day it comes out, changed my entire life. I said, that is what I'm doing.  

Matt:    00:33:03    Because with that book, the main light bulb that went on there was build a business that is not only going to deliver you money, not only, it's not only gonna make you money and enough money to cover all your lifestyle expenses, but build a business that is going to facilitate your freedom of mobility and give you location independence. And I said, how can I build a business that's gonna give me total location independence and allow me to travel the world and also do this real estate brokerage thing? Because any real estate brokerage that I've ever seen is a very localized operation.

Kristin:  Brick and mortar.

Matt:  Brick and mortar where real estate agents are driving people around to look at houses and stuff. So how do I build the real estate brokerage that I want to build and then also do it in a 100% virtual location independent way so that I can travel the world.  

Matt:    00:33:56    So that was the question. And so what I did is, if you want to hear the, uh, the, the sort of, the summary of the story is I said, okay, first of all, I can't do this by myself. I don't have all the skills that I need to do this. So I reached out to my best friend Valerie, who has all of the complimentary skills that I don't have. All of the things that I'm not good at, she's amazing at, and vice versa, right? So, so she had been my best friend for years. We've done all kinds of stuff together. And I said, Hey Valerie, how would you like to leave your job? <laugh>, which I know is really good, and you're paying you a lot of money and you're very successful and come start a business with me. And the thing was that Valerie is the type of person who would be like, okay, <laugh> <laugh>, uh, because we love--

Kristin: I got to meet her.  

Matt:    00:34:36    We, we love and we trust each other. And, and she's up for an adventure. I interviewed her on the Maverick Show. It's episode, uh, I think it's one, oh, I think it's like  102. It's hilarious. We go through like 20 years of our friendship and misadventures and crazy travels. I mean, it's like, we go through like hilarious stuff. It's really, really funny. 'cause she knows me amazingly well. I was like, I think Valerie would do this, go on this adventure with me. And then Valerie and I, Valerie was like, okay, I'll do it. So then it was like, okay, but neither of us has any professional real estate experience. And in order to start a brokerage, you have to have a broker. And in order to be a broker, you have to have two years of full-time experience as an agent at least. So I was like, okay, we gotta get a real estate professional to come partner with us.  

Matt:    00:35:16    And so what I did is I approached my other business partner now who, his name is Mark, and he had actually sold me probably about four rental properties. So I knew him as a customer, and I was like, this is the best sales guy I know. <laugh> <laugh>. I was like, he's, I was like, he's a real estate professional. He sold me four properties. His customer service is amazing. He's got all this experience, you know, and he was like one of the top people at his company for sales. But I was like, I wonder if I could get this guy to come start a business with me, you know? So I'm like, okay, hey Mark, I wanna take you out to dinner. So I I, he was in Vegas at the time, so I drove out to Vegas, I took him out to dinner and I was like, man, we gotta have a conversation. So I pitched him on the business plan and I got him to leave his job and come and be our corporate broker. And so, you know, this was 2007 and 14 years later, the three of us are still together.  

Kristin:    00:36:03    That is amazing. I didn't know the full story. Like I knew that you worked at a nonprofit, I knew that you got fired and that the four hour work week helped inspire you to create this location independent business. But I didn't know all of those details. That's super inspiring. Um, so once you guys got together and you all agree that it was gonna be location independent, um, how, like how does the business work then? Like, how, who does what? Is everyone location independent? Because I know that a lot of real estate agents listen to this podcast and other people that have traditional businesses that can't see how they could pivot to actually do their job from anywhere. Like maybe they could work from home for a little while, but they still need to go out and show properties. So how did you split up those activities? Like who does what and how did you make it so no one needs to actually be in Nevada or Kansas City or whatever.  

Matt:    00:37:09    Right? Yeah. So first of all, we forced a virtual infrastructure because Mark, Valerie and I have never lived in the same city for a single day since the founding of our company ever. <laugh> never. So we literally built it on a virtual infrastructure and we forced it to be a virtual infrastructure. And so basically what we did is we said, okay, this is what we want to do. What are the perceived obstacles, the perceived challenges, the perceived geographical restrictions? What are those? Let's list them out here. They are <laugh>. And we wrote 'em down, right? I mean, we, we, you know, we were like, okay, let's meet out in Vegas and have like a, a, a week in Vegas and we'll just like brainstorm all this stuff, you know, like rent a suite at the Venetian and just like brainstorm this stuff for like a week. So we all go out there, right? We're like, all right, how are we gonna do this? And so--  

Kristin:    00:37:58    You basically did a mastermind. 

Matt:    00:38:00    Yeah,  Yeah, exactly. That's right. We're like, okay,

Kristin:  That's cool.

Matt:  We're gonna do something epic, uh, here and uh, you know, let's, let's, let's do it. So the first thing to be honest is a mindset. So you have to first believe that it's possible that there is a way, okay? Everybody's gonna tell you, oh, can't do it. That's not a virtual space, that's not possible. Nobody's ever done it. You can't do it. All this kinda stuff. So you gotta just ignore all that and you gotta believe that it can be done, right? And then the second thing is that you need to reverse engineer your business plan and work backwards. Okay? So you start with the end vision. What's the end vision? We're running this epic real estate brokerage. We're helping people buy all these investment properties and we're doing it from wherever we want. The beach in Thailand, the a rooftop pool deck in Dubai.  

Matt:    00:38:45    Like, I mean, this is the vision, right? Like we are gonna be doing the lifestyle design things that we personally want to do, and we're gonna be running this amazing business and adding value to our clients and we're gonna be doing in the real estate space. So you gotta start with that vision, right? And design both, okay, here's our company financial goals and here's our lifestyle goals. And this is, this is our vision for how it's gonna be. And now work backwards and ask yourself, never ask yourself, is this possible? Always ask yourself, how could I do this? What are those obstacles? And then how do I overcome this one, this one, this one, this one, this one. And when you get into that mindset, all of a sudden things that might have been objected to out of hand, now all of a sudden be like, well, you know what, maybe, maybe there is, you know, some way that we could do this or we could do that, or what, what would that look like, right?  

Matt:    00:39:36    So, so you make that vision, you create that vision, and then you reverse engineer it. So for us, the way that we want to do this, we say, okay, first of all, we're not gonna be specific to one market. We want to be able, you know, part of the value proposition of our companies I mentioned is that we wanna help our clients buy in the best markets, even if those markets change over time for which ones are the best, right? Well, it depends on when you're gonna buy. So if we want that latitude and we want that agility, we can't be tied to one market anyways, right? So, okay, so how can we help people buy in in multiple different real estate markets? Okay, well, so what we do is we have relationships with separate independent companies on the ground in those markets.  

Matt:    00:40:21    So we talked about Kansas City, we talked about Jacksonville or those kind of markets, or back in the day, Phoenix or these other markets that we've been in. We have relationships with operators that are from that place. They're on the ground in that place, and they're local market experts. So what they're doing is they're either building new construction properties or they're buying distressed properties and they're renovating them with their own construction crews. And they've either got a vertically integrated property management solution or they've partnered with a local professional management company to lease those properties out, qualify the tenants, get those tenants in place, and get that property to a stabilized cash flowing predicament, at which point they market it through our company to our clients. Okay? So you, you could think of it sort of as, um, a supply, like a supplier, like you would think about inventory.  

Matt:    00:41:13    That's inventory for a company. Okay? And so what we are doing is we are client facing, we are building long-term relationships with our clients. So you would maybe come in the door to us, Kristin, and we would sit down and we would talk to you, Kristin, what are your real estate investing goals? What's your financial position right now? Where would you like to get? How much passive income would you like, like to have a month? You know, how can we get you from where you are now to there by building a, a diversified real estate portfolio over time? How long will it take to do that? And we do all of that with you. And then, you know, that's the, those are the relationships that we build. And then we have the supply side relationships with those local market specialists on the ground that are providing what we call turnkey rental properties.  

Matt:    00:41:56    So you don't have to be the rehabber or the landlord. You're closing on something and someone else is managing it for you so that you can be traveling around the world and collecting the cash flow, right? So what we did, therefore is we aligned our interest with our client's interest. 'cause normally people think about buying rental properties that you should buy those in the same place that you live. You know, maybe you should be the landlord buy it in your local town. No, we're saying, I mean, I, you know, you know this, I interview people on the Marick Show that are literally traveling around the world living off of their passive rental income. So we're helping our clients build their passive rental income, build their real estate portfolio so that they can then design their dream lifestyle. And maybe that's traveling around the world and being an itinerant nomad. Or maybe it's just being able to never miss your kid's sporting event and be there to coach the team. And whatever your dream lifestyle is, the more passive income and, and all that that you have from rental property assets, the more freedom you have to, to design your lifestyle the way that you want to do. So now there's an alignment there.  

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Kristin:    00:43:04    Hey, it's Kristin. If you're liking this episode, I would be so appreciative if you could help the podcast grow by leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform or by sharing as well, send this episode to someone you think it might inspire or share it with your friends on social media. Badass Digital Nomads wouldn't exist without listeners just like you. Thanks for your support. And now back to the show.  

Kristin:    00:43:35    Yeah, that, so I know a few people that owned 30 plus houses in my hometown of St. Augustine, and they never go anywhere because they are the landlords. They, they're full-time property managers, rental managers of their own properties. And it is a full-time job. It's interesting to think that they could be your clients. They could own 30 properties in cities across the US and they could live anywhere. They could still live in their hometown, but they would have more flexibility, they would have more free time. And so I like how you approached it from how do I fit this square peg in a round hole? And you forced it through and you made it fit <laugh>. And in a way, just reflecting on your story, I did the same thing. I mean, I own a relocation company. Most relocation companies are brick and mortar. They serve one local market, or it's an international franchise with offices all around the world.  

Kristin:    00:44:36    But each office serves a specific market. But what I did was I used local realtors and other relocation companies as my suppliers. And that allowed me to manage relocations in 30 plus countries from anywhere, because I never had to be the person going in and taking the pictures of the house or finding the properties and driving around. I would do that upfront just to get to know the markets. But I had already lived in all of those places and I already worked in real estate and I already knew the comp, so I already had the contact. So for me it was like just maintain those relationships and build my Rolodex of suppliers in each city and country, get to know the residency attorneys, get to know the real estate agents, hire drivers, translators, building up this whole network of people so that I could be in Malta working on my computer, helping somebody move to Canada.  

Kristin:    00:45:36    And there's no problem there because even when I was in the same country as the client, that didn't mean that I had to be there in person. I just had to be able to organize everything. And so we kind of did the same thing by turning both of our traditionally location dependent businesses into location independent businesses and coming in as beginners. Having that beginner's mind. I had never owned a relocation company before. You had never owned a real estate investment company before. But we saw an opportunity and we decided to make something that wasn't there before. So let's say somebody's listening and they have a traditional business, what are some examples of other people that you've met in your travels that you've thought or even interviewed on your podcast that you thought, wow, they took a traditional business and made it location independent and they're crushing?   

Matt:    00:46:38    Oh Yeah. I mean, I mean that's one of the things that I wanted to do with the Maverick Show podcast, is to interview incredible location independent entrepreneurs. You of course have been on the show multiple times, incredible location, independent entrepreneurs, many of which have built incredible businesses in spaces that people do not think are virtual. So for example, our friend Jen McGee, she was episode five of the Maverick Show. She's actually been on twice as well. She runs an architectural design company. Her clients are Fortune 500 companies, Barnes and Noble, Sharper Image, those types of companies that hire her to design retail spaces. She won an award for designing the duty free shops at JFK Airport in New York City. She's an, she runs an architectural design company for those kind of clients. And she does it while traveling the world. Full-time as an itinerant nomad. Another ex I interview, I did--

Kristin:  Drinking wine in France with you <laugh>.  

Matt:    00:47:35    Yeah. She was the one that did the wine in France. We went to Saint Émilion. Right. And she's designing architectural stuff at night. Yeah. And then we're drinking wine in the day. I mean, that's exactly how we roll, right? We recorded this interview at Prague, uh, at midnight in Prague. Over a bottle of wine is when we recorded episode 5. Right. You know, another, another guest of mine is Daraja Asili, who she runs a live event company. Okay? So pre Covid, she was getting a hundred thousand paying customers per year to attend her live events. Okay. And she built it with a totally location, independent infrastructure. She and I spent a month together in Kenya and I interviewed her also over a bottle of wine in Kenya about how she's getting a hundred thousand people to her events, all of which are in the US while she is in Kenya, right?  

Matt:    00:48:29    Um, I interviewed episode 28 was Colin Randall. He runs a music video production company where he is producing music videos for a-list musicians, the Backstreet Boys, you know, I mean, he's the Nicki Minaj, I mean this caliber of people, right? His music, video production, company's producing, you know, six figure music videos for premium, a-list artists. And he's doing it while he is traveling the world. And when he became a nomad, his business revenue increased versus when he was based just in Los Angeles. And we go through the whole story, how is that possible? How did you do it? Right? My friend, oh, another great example. My friend Lydia Baikalova, who you know as well, episode 34, she was on the Maverick Show. We recorded that one in Cape Town while we were overlooking the ocean. It was really epic.

Kristin:  Was that at a vineyard?

Matt:    00:49:26    It was not a vineyard, it was, they rented some crazy villa that was like on the, you know, overlooking the beach on this cliff in Cape Town. It was like this villa with a pool and everything. She's like, you should come here and, and record that. We should record it here. I was like, okay, like twist my arm, right? <laugh>. So I bring, I bring, you know, I, I bring the podcasting gear and all that kind of stuff. We set it up and we're like doing this conversation. I remember it so well, 'cause it was like overlooking the beach in Cape Town, South Africa. She runs a wedding photography business. Kristin, a wedding photography business in Los Angeles, meaning a bride and groom in Los Angeles. Pay your company to come out and shoot all the photos at their wedding that takes place in Los Angeles, right?  

Matt:    00:50:06    She runs a very successful wedding photography business. She built it with a location, independent infrastructure so that she can run that business from Cape Town or from anywhere else in the world. And we talk about exactly how she did that. So this is example after example, after example of there's no way you could do that, is like the first response that people would say and then they listen to the episode of like, oh, I, I guess you can do that. And here's exactly tactically how you did it, how the business runs and how it works. And so, yeah, I, I've interviewed a lot of those folks and I love those types of, of entrepreneurs 'cause they were just so creative in their thinking.  

Kristin:    00:50:44    Another one that I've heard a lot of people do is owning cleaning companies. So they will have maids physically going into people's houses, cleaning, and they are running this cleaning company from another country. They never see the clients, they're never going into the houses. They just outsource everything and organize it. So what are some of the themes over, you've done 125 interviews now?  

Matt:    00:51:12    Yeah about that.  

Kristin:    00:51:13    What are some of the, what are some of the themes that you've seen that have been recurring? Are there any kind of patterns in what was holding people back from becoming location independent and then maybe a mechanism that they used to turn their business location independent?  

Matt:    00:51:33    Well, I mean, the first thing really, I mean, not to harp on this and it, it's not tactical in terms of business building, but it really has a lot to do with mindset as the very first step, right? If you're trying to do something that no one else has done, or at least nobody that you've ever heard of has done, that's a massive obstacle. It's a massive impediment because you grow up and you think, okay, if I wanna be a real estate agent, this is what that means. I gotta drive people around to houses, sit at open houses, show houses, list houses on the on, you know, and that's what a real estate agent is -- 

Kristin:    00:52:07    Because that's the way it's always been done.   

Matt:    00:52:09    Because that's every real estate agent I've ever seen. It's the only exposure I have. And then I tell people, oh no, actually I, you know, our real estate brokerage, a hundred percent of the people are like totally remote and we travel around the world and do this epic stuff. And, and if you've never heard of that, then for you to think that you could do that really takes quite a level of mindset, right? And so I think all of these people, like, you know, I mean a lot of the listeners have probably never heard of a fully remote 100% remote architectural design company or wedding photography business or this or that. This maybe the first time you're ever hearing of that, which is normal 'cause it's the first time I ever heard of it too, when I met these people, right? <laugh>. I'm like, well, you do what?  

Matt:    00:52:51    How do you do that remotely? Let's like, let me record that and ask you about that. But I think a lot of it is just the belief that you can do it. And so anybody that has a job right now, I mean, one of the things that happened with the pandemic, as we talked about at the beginning, right, is that a lot of jobs that people didn't think could be done remotely, or at least the employers didn't. All of a sudden now they realize, oh, actually, yeah, that can be done remotely, right? And the same is true with a lot of these business models. And so I think for folks, if they have an idea, they have a thing that they're passionate about, they have a space that they want to be in, or a business they want to build, or maybe they've already built a traditional brick and mortar, geographically restrictive business to go through this process and say, you know what?  

Matt:    00:53:35    First of all, I believe that there is a way for me to either build or convert, you know, change this into a business where I can be location independent while I am running it. And that I can build it in a way, I mean, with you, with you and I, Kristin, I mean, we, all of our staff are also remote. Like, that's a great incredible benefit that we can offer. 'cause when we hire people, we're like, yeah, you can work from anywhere in the world. You can be a digital nomad, you can travel around, you can go to, you know, whatever. And, and then we build it like that, right? So I, I think for people to just be able to have this vision and say, okay, if I were to apply this concept to my business, number one, I believe that there is a way, number two, now I'm gonna find that way.  

Matt:    00:54:20    So that is where you go into that reverse engineering process and you say, okay, let me list out the obstacles, list out the perceived challenges, and then let me strategize about and ask the question, how could I navigate around these obstacles? So, so that I think is really the next one. And then, you know, you can go into further things. I mean, I would say the more, you know, further down the line, you know, then you're gonna say, okay, this is how I would actually do it operationally, right? Like, I, I think I understand a model operationally for how I could pull this off, right? And by the way, if in order to get to that point, you may wanna just consult with some other location independent entrepreneurs and say, Hey man, you know, or, or, or, or whatever. Like if you were to do this, like how would you get around this obstacle?  

Matt:    00:55:04    Like, you know, and you start talking to people, you'll probably get some really good insights. But then once you have that operationally, at that point, I think, you know, you wanna start thinking about, okay, are there gonna be any other downsides to doing this location independently? For example, if it's a totally traditional space and like there is nobody else doing it location independently, will your customers perceive that negatively? Will they perceive that there's a higher risk in patronizing your business if you're not a traditional, uh, version of that business? Right? And so, you know, with that kind of stuff, that's a little bit more advanced stuff. But what you wanna do is, I, I think, go through those objections and say, okay, you know, let's talk to some potential customers. Like what would they think about that? Right? Because like when I started nomad around, I was like, well, do I want my customers to know that I'm on the beach in Thailand, or do I want them to not know that?  

Matt:    00:56:05    Right? And I had to think about would that be perceived as a, a negative thing? Like, you know, and all that kinda stuff. And basically the conclusion that I came to is to understand, first of all, ask yourself, how does your location, independent infrastructure, how can that actually be part of your value proposition? Okay? How can it give you an advantage over your sedentary traditional, geographically restrictive customers, right? So for, for the example, for our real estate brokerage, it was, okay, this adds value to the buyer because we can help them buy in multiple real estate markets. And we are not incentivized to pressure them to buy in one market because we have to sell that we can sell in any of these markets. We can help them buy it in the place that's best for them. And that agility and diversification actually adds value to the buyer, right?  

Matt:    00:56:58    So we're like, okay, look at that location independence advantage over brick and mortar real estate brokerages, right? So, so that's one thing that I would say to do is say, how, how does it add value to your customer? And then, you know, if there are additional kind of objections or perceptions of risk, you know, just think about how you could mitigate those. So, you know, in our, uh, business for example, I just, you know, um, let's say that somebody says, well, if I wish to buy a property that was in a different state, uh, or, you know, in the US and, and I'm in a different country or whatever, right? Uh, it's not near me. Um, how would I know that it's a good quality property? How would I know that, you know, how would I do my due diligence on it? All that kind of stuff, right?  

Matt:    00:57:51    And so we know that that's going to be a common question from people. And one of the things that we explain is, well, you're gonna do your due diligence on this property the exact same way that you would do it if you lived near the property, which is that you're gonna hire an independent home inspector locally that works for you, not the seller, not maverick, right? Works for you. They're gonna go in there, do a full home inspection on the property, give that report to you. You are also gonna have an appraiser come in and they're gonna give you the fair market value of that property. They're gonna do an appraisal report that appraiser works for you, not for the seller. So you're gonna have all of these third party independent due diligence professional, you know, uh, uh, things that you're gonna do before any closing, which is the same thing you'd do if the property was right down your block.  

Matt:    00:58:41    Because unless you're a professional home inspector, you personally walking through that property is not gonna be anywhere near sufficient due diligence. You want a professional in there looking at every detail about that property, and you can hire that person and do that no matter if you live near the property or not. So we educate our clients about here's the whole due diligence regimen you're gonna do. And for that matter, you know, it's actually oftentimes pushes you to do it in a more meticulous and precise way if you don't live there, because you're not gonna be emotionally impacted by walking through the property. Oh, it's cute, it's this, it's that, it's that, no, it's an investment property, right?

Kristin: Yeah.

Matt:  Is it well renovated? Is the tenant qualified? You're gonna gonna see the, you know, you're gonna see a copy of the lease and the tenant qualifications and all, you're gonna do all of that. And then it's a very objective investment based decision.  

Kristin:    00:59:29    You're also approaching it from the client's best interest. So one of the big problems in real estate is an inherent conflict of interest, because as you mentioned, the brokers are getting paid a commission from the homeowner or the property owner, but the brokers are also representing the buyer. So the broker's best interest is simply to sell a property as fast as possible to whoever it is. But your incentive is to find a, a property that offers a good return on investment and value because you can, you don't care where the property is, it could be anywhere in the country. You just wanna get a good deal for your client so that your client buys 10 houses with you in the future. Whereas a traditional real estate broker is only focused on that local market, and they just, they don't care who the buyer is as long as they sell that property and can close it and move to the next one.  

Kristin:    01:00:31    And it's also like that with real, uh, with relocation in my business, because I don't work for the, the landlords of the properties, I work for the, the clients, the, the renters that are relocating to the country. So not only am I helping people decide which country to move to, which is actually 50% of the issue. So instead of one person saying, okay, I think I wanna move to Mexico, or Costa Rica or Panama, and then they start contacting realtors and relocation companies in all of those countries, those professionals are only, they only have expertise in their local markets. They can't advise someone whether they should move to Costa Rica or Mexico. But because I approached it from this totally different angle, I don't care where people move, I just want them to be happy. So I'm gonna be really forthright about whether it's a better fit for them to go to Malta or the Netherlands, or Bulgaria or Thailand, because I have resources in all of those places.  

Kristin:    01:01:38    And then likewise, I don't care what their budget is. So I don't care if they have $200 a month for rent or $10,000 per month for rent, because I don't work on commission. I work on consulting fees with the client. So my incentive is that they like the property that they end up in, they like the location that they end up in, and they have a good quality of life, and it meets their, their goals and their, their vision of their lifestyle. And so, I mean, that's logical, but the way that most of these traditional businesses are set up, there is an inherent gap or a conflict of interest that that's just the way it's always been. And it's really hard to change it. So when people come and approach a business from a new way, and maybe they've never worked in that business before, or maybe they've been in that business for a long time, but they understand ways it can be done differently or better, and they start to confront these roadblocks one by one, it's really cool that almost any business can be turned into a location independent one.  

Kristin:    01:02:40    And even if you owned a restaurant or something like that, I mean, maybe if you own a barbecue restaurant, you can shift into a different model where you're selling barbecue sauce online, or I don't know, or you're franchising your restaurant to other people so that you don't have to be there turning the meat over the coals. You know, <laugh>, there's so many different things that you can do. So I love all of those examples, and I would encourage everybody to check out those episodes of the Maverick Show, of course. But the other thing you bring up about mindset, what the mind of man can conceive the mind of man can achieve. And all you have to do is look at people like Elon Musk and anyone who's done anything amazing in the world, and realize that if that's possible, anything's possible. Like any thought that you have in your head is actually possible to manifest itself in real life. It's just a matter of time and energy and, and persistence.  

Matt:    01:03:38    Yeah. To be honest, Kristin, I think, I feel like the people that you interview on Badass Digital Nomads and the people that I interview on the Maverick Show are oftentimes more inspiring to people than Elon Musk in that

Kristin:  Yeah.

Matt:  They're more relatable, right?  

Kristin:    01:03:55    None of us are doing rocket science.  

Matt:    01:03:57    Yeah. You know, I mean, we're not talking about like the most brilliant, sophisticated entrepreneurs in world history and like that like crazy elite category we're talking about. These are regular folks. They had no business background to begin with, you know, and they decided to do this really cool thing, and they're gonna tell you exactly how they did it, right? So that you too can do it and or you can apply the concepts to whatever it is that you want to do. And that's the important thing, right? The important thing is not saying, oh yeah, somebody did that. The important thing is saying that you believing that you personally, you can do it, because that's the thing that we all struggle with, right? We all struggle with imposter syndrome and self-doubt and all this kind of stuff, especially, especially if we are not surrounded by people that are doing this.  

Matt:    01:04:46    So folks that are not surrounded by entrepreneurs, they're not surrounded by digital nomads, they're not surrounded by people that are doing this. That's a massive weight and a massive pressure on them to say, oh yeah, that's true. These other people that Kristin's interviewing or that Matt's interviewing, they're doing it. But, you know, maybe I couldn't do it for any number of reasons. Maybe I don't have the stuff, or I'm not whatever, or this or that, because people around them aren't doing it right. And they, they don't have the supportive ecosystem. And so I think that's really where the self-initiative, you know, when we talk about the mindset thing, the self-initiative to virtually surround yourself with people if you can't physically do it. So listen to every episode of Badass Digital Nomads. Listen to every episode of The Maverick Show, and just pump into your brain that there is all of these regular people that are just like you, that were able to figure out the path to do this. And they're willing to tell you blueprint tactically for free, exactly how they did it.  

Kristin:    01:05:49    Yeah. You wanna literally reprogram your brain. You wanna brainwash yourself in a positive way and just flood it with example, after example, after example of how these people are doing things. And eventually it's gonna click because there's enough examples from different industries that you, one of them will resonate with you, and who knows when it's going to happen, but eventually it will. And I don't know about you, Matt, but I am an example of that. I mean, I started listening to podcasts, I think in 2012, where podcasts out back then, I think I was living, I was living in Costa Rica 2012, and was just starting to come across the whole concept of media and social media and basically becoming a media company as a person. And I listened to podcasts for many years knowing that one day I wanted to start a podcast. It's just that my mindset and my subconscious mind and my self-confidence had to catch up to the point to where I could actually take action.  

Kristin:    01:07:02    But it took years of just pumping myself up, listening to other people's podcasts, journaling, brainstorming, until I finally did it. And it was the same with YouTube. And it wasn't that I couldn't have started a YouTube channel in 2007 when I think I first found out about it. It was that I didn't think I could do it. And so I just waited and I thought about it for a long time until I finally couldn't live with myself anymore. And I was just like, I'm gonna do this, or I am gonna die. Like I have to do it. I can't, I I just can't go another day with not taking action on my dreams. And then when you actually make that decision and you're like, gonna do it, here we are at, this is probably the 99th episode of my podcast, and you're on 125. And when both of us met and neither of us had launched our podcasts yet. And it's like, once you make that decision and you know nothing's gonna get in your way, it just becomes a matter of taking action, being okay with failure, and then also asking yourself the right questions when you get stuck.  

Matt:    01:08:08    A hundred percent. Yeah. I I, I did literally the exact same thing, Kristin, I literally started buying courses on how to start a podcast in 2015.  

Kristin:    01:08:17    Both of us paid money to JLD. You were in Podcasters Paradise.

Matt:  Yes.

Kristin:  I took all of his free courses.   

Matt:    01:08:25    Yeah, Yeah, exactly. And that was in 2015.

Kristin:  Yeah.

Matt:  And then I launched the Maverick Show in 2018. So I have the exact same story that you do. So I did the same thing. I mean, we all do this right? We, oh yeah, we should do this. We delay, we this, that, so one, one of the things that I did after I went through all the stuff, launched the podcast and, and just figured out every service provider how to do all this stuff, I created a page on the Maverick Show website called Behind the Scenes.  

Kristin:    01:08:54    I use that. I like reference that page all the time.  

Matt:    01:08:58    <laugh>. Yeah. And I'm just like, listen, here's a, here's every single vendor that I use. This is how I host a podcast, how I edit the podcast, how I do this, how is a microphone I use, this is like, this is literally everything I use. It's just on, you know, the Maverick show behind the scenes and just there you'll see it. And then I, you know, beyond the vendors and the products and like every single thing, which if you go to that page and you just buy everything, you'll, you'll be on the same operating system that I'm on. Um, in addition to that, I recorded an episode of The Maverick Show where I talked about exactly how I produced the show at the caliber that I do. And I talked specifically about how do I find my guests? How do I prepare for each show?  

Matt:    01:09:41    How do I do this? How do I do that? So literally, if you go to the behind the scenes page on the Maverick Show website, and you listen to this maverick show, uh, episode about How to Produce a High Quality Podcast, like that's literally like years of, of everything that I've learned condensed into, you know, an hour long episode. It's less than an hour, I think, and, and one resource page, right? Because I just wanna give that for free to people, because if they're ready to start and they wanna do a podcast, if that's their thing, like go now.  

Kristin:    01:10:10    Yeah. That, uh, we'll link to your behind the scenes page and the show notes and that episode, uh, because yeah, it's like, that's so funny. 'cause I, I wanna do the same thing I've had on my list to do a behind the scenes of how I do the podcast. I actually listened to Amy Porterfield's that she did in 2017, and that was really helpful too. And you just keep learning and, and building on it. You're not gonna know everything at the beginning. Like I think back to before I started the podcast, I wanted to, I, I remember meeting Johnny FD on Nomad Cruise, and I told him like, I have this idea to start a podcast. I invited him on and he said, I won't go on until you have at least 30 episodes done. I was like, okay, that's fair. And he probably thought I was never gonna do it.  

Kristin:    01:10:56    And then I did start it, and then he came on the show. But, um, I didn't even know what an XLR cable was. Like, I didn't even have a microphone. I really didn't know anything. And it's, it's crazy to look back once it becomes normal practice and to see, oh, wow. Yeah. And there was definitely a time where I was in Costa Rica and I knew I was living in a really cool place, but I was just like, this sucks that I can never leave because every time I leave the country, I have to put my business on hold for a few months and then come back and start over. And so then ended up starting in 2011, my relocation company and still here today. So a a couple questions I wanna share with people that have helped me in those sticky spots that I learned from Tim Ferris.  

Kristin:    01:11:44    Actually shout out to Tim. And one of the things that he says, I don't know if this was on his blog or in one of his books, but he asks himself, what if this were easy? And that's a really good question to ask when you're facing a problem. Like, what if this were easy, what would the solution be? Another thing he asks himself is, how can I throw money at this problem? So that could be, if you have a sticking point in your business and you don't know how to do something, who can you hire to do it for you? Or who can you hire to teach you about it? Or how can you spend money to get the answer faster than learning it yourself in the next three years? You know, there's always a way to pay your way out of a problem if you have that possibility.  

Kristin:    01:12:33    And it doesn't have to be very expensive. I mean, a virtual assistant or somebody who knows how to build a funnel or a landing page, these are all commodities these days. You don't need the best person in the world who works for Russell Brunson or something. And then another question, I don't know if this was from Tim Ferris or somebody else that I use a lot, is if I were to do this thing that I don't know how to do, or that's very hard or that's very intimidating, what would I do first? I'm not gonna do it, but if I were to do it, what would I do? And, and that just makes it more casual. So it's not so serious. You must create the best online business in the world. It's just like, if I were gonna do this thing, where would I start?  

Kristin:    01:13:21    Or what would I do? And that, those are a couple questions that have helped me get out of a sticky situation. So I like this visual of you guys in the suite at the Venetian brainstorming on like whiteboards and <laugh>. Probably some alcohol was involved. I don't know, <laugh>, I just assume, I'm just assuming. So thank you so much for those tips. Well, let's jump into a couple of your travel tips, because this was really helpful. But I know that my podcast is in the travel and places category, so I never wanna end an episode without getting into some travel tips. How many countries have you been to so far? Yeah,  

Matt:    01:13:58    Somewhere, somewhere probably around like 78 or so, I think in that vicinity.  

Kristin:    01:14:02    I know you just kind of stopped counting after a while. I say 60 plus countries, 'cause I'm not exactly sure. And okay, let's go with this. This is a question everyone asks me. What is your favorite country?  

Matt:    01:14:14    Ugh, that's so hard, Kristin. You know, this is very difficult.  

Kristin:    01:14:17    I know. It's an impossible question. It's really hard. Okay. I I'll make it easier for you. I do. What is one of your favorite countries for relaxation and vacation, and then what is one of your favorite countries for remote working?  

Matt:    01:14:28    Okay, so I'm gonna say Brazil is definitely gonna be right up at the very, very top of my list. It's a magical country with a energy that just rocks my world every time I go there. I've been three times, I've, I, the first time I went to Brazil, I, I went to Rio de Janeiro for two months. Literally didn't leave Rio for a single day to see any other part of Brazil because I was like, who would leave Rio? This is too epic. I don't want to miss a day of this. Then as I'm traveling around the world after my Brazil trip, I'm meeting people that are telling me their favorite city in the world is Sao Paulo, Brazil. I was like, what? I was like, you've been to Rio, you've been to Tokyo, you've been to Istanbul, you've been to all these places and your favorite city in the world is Sao Paulo.  

Matt:    01:15:11    They're like, yeah, for sure. I was like, I had to go. So I went back, went to Sao Paulo, blew my mind. Then I went, um, you know, you and I together, Kristin, uh, spent time in some of those beach towns, uh, Jericoacoara, Praia da Pipa, uh, put de those kind of areas, um, which is where we recorded our first Badass Digital Nomads episode. Um, and so I've kind of done that p part of Brazil, so I've been three times. It's an absolutely enormous country. There's a lot of very different parts of it. I I still have a ton of places in Brazil on my bucket list. I want to go back as soon as possible and spend time there. So I'm gonna put that super, super, super high on the list and then--

Kristin:    01:15:50    it's open.  

Matt:    01:15:51    Yeah, I mean it's just, it's just to have a, a really profound love for that place. And then, you know, the other place that I'll put on people's radars is, you know, I just went to West Africa last year for about three, well I say last year, 2019 for about three months with, uh, Agnes Nyamwange, who I know your listeners know as well 'cause she's been on your show as well as my show. She's amazing. Um,  

Kristin:    01:16:17    Everyone loves her and everyone loves the episode. We'll link to both of Agnes's episodes. Yeah. Agnes, because they compliment each other.  

Matt:    01:16:24    Yeah. Big- huge Shout out to Agnes. She's, you know, born and raised in Kenya, full-time, digital nomad, super good friend of both of ours. And she and I did a three month trip through West Africa. We did Nigeria for a month. We did Ghana for a month. We did Senegal for a month. Absolutely won my heart. So the entire region was amazing. If you want me to pick one place, I might say that, um, Accra in Ghana is, you know, I found it to be very solid in terms of a remote work location, you know, really good, consistent wifi the whole time, coworking spaces and you know, it's right on the beach. Nightlife is insane. The music, the culture, I mean, it just really, really, really won my heart. So I'll say Accra in Ghana and then the country of Brazil.

Kristin:    01:17:08    Accra is super high on my list, especially after talking to both you and Agnes. So I can't wait to go there. I still wanna go to like Galapagos, like I really wanna go to Antarctica. There's a few rogue places on my list. I, I mean, I loved Brazil. I would definitely go back there and I haven't been to Rio or Sao Paulo, so those are great places too. What are, what are some of the qualities that you look for in a destination? Are you very rigid or intentional about that? Or is it kind of more of a go with the flow thing of who's going where and what opportunity arises?  

Matt:    01:17:40    So here's the thing, um, some of my places, I, I, I choose because I actually wanna see the place and I'm really passionate about what that location has to offer. And then other times it's, it's entirely about the people that I wanna spend time with and where we can go as, as a group or a community and have a great time and I can spend time around people. So my travel choices are made primarily by those two things. If you're asking me about the place specific choices, what types of places would I choose to go? You know, I've actually developed quite a diversity of appreciation for very different types of places, right? So I, you know, as we've, as we've just talked about in this show alone, I love West Africa. I love the music and the nightlife and just the whole kind of vibe there.  

Matt:    01:18:29    And then also I love the French wine country, you know what I mean? And I love just like, you know, like I love all of these different things. And so the things that I love about Tokyo, Japan, which are a giant astronomically long list, are different from the things that I love about Bolivia, which was a country that blew my mind. I think it's, I think it's the single most underrated country in South America. And if people have one week to spend on the continents of South America, I'm literally recommending that they spend it in Bolivia because it is some of the most extraordinary natural landscape. I think it is the most extraordinary natural landscape that I have seen on the planet of Earth. I mean, it just blew my mind. And so, you know, that kind of a situation where you're going out and you're in Salt flats and you're seeing rainbow colored mountains and islands full of cacti and red colored lagoons and like, you feel like you're on another planet with volcanic rock formations every day.  

Matt:    01:19:27    I mean, it's just, it's like that experience is very different from the, the experience in urban Tokyo, which is very,

Kristin:  Yeah.

Matt:  Which is very different from the experience in the French wine country, which is very different than the experience, uh, uh, you know, in West Africa. And yet I love them all. And so for me, one of the reasons I'm an itinerant nomad, and I'm not just an expat that goes and lives long-term in a foreign country is because I appreciate the level of diversity of all of those different experiences. And so therefore I choose to travel around and, and have all of those experiences.  

Kristin:    01:20:03    I, it's so cool how you can in one year have so many diverse experiences like you, I know that you went on the Nomad Train in Russia and then you can be sailing across the Atlantic Ocean and headed to Brazil. And I've seen a few of our mutual friends who are posting about Amsterdam on Instagram, which is a city that I have spent a lot of time in since 2013. And they were saying how even though it's cold and rainy and winter, they just really were appreciating Amsterdam. And they could have been on the beach in Mexico, but they decided not to. And it just depends what you're craving, like what kind of experience that will fulfill you at that time in your life and to keep an open mind. There's so many places, to be honest, I was really not excited about going to the Balkans when I went in 2017.  

Kristin:    01:20:54    And I pretty much stayed there ever since. Like I fell in love with the Balkans I was in, well, from Croatia into Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania, and then Serbia, Bulgaria, like hanging out in Eastern Europe and just really, really loved it and had no idea that I was going to like it. And the same thing happened in Peru. I just went with my friend to Peru back in 2012 and I wasn't, I remember not really being excited about going there for some reason and then just completely falling in love with the country. And that's happened so many times. So it's really important to keep an open mind and even if there's a place that you kind of have an aversion to, like for so long I was afraid to go to Turkey because I bought into the fear. And I know you've spent a lot of time in Egypt and that region of the world.  

Kristin:    01:21:45    And now that I've met so many people who've been there, I'm like convinced that that's a place that I'm really going to love. And Istanbul is really high on my list also Tel Aviv. Yeah, there's just so many places. So do you ever see yourself settling in a place? Like is there anywhere that you've been that you think that you would live for a, a few years or even permanently and then now having been back to the US and kind of been forced to stay here for a year, do you see yourself being like, okay, I would go to that country for a year or maybe I would keep a home base there and nomad part-time?  

Matt:    01:22:21    So one of the things that I love about being location independent is that I can shake that up whenever I choose. If I have a reason to stay somewhere, I can stay somewhere for however long. All right. If there's a person or people or community or I just love the place, I could stay there. I mean, I, I, you know, on my nomad journey, I stayed in Cairo, Egypt for nine consecutive months, right? I had a nine month base in Cairo and it was cool 'cause I take weekend trips to Istanbul or around the Mediterranean and go to really cool places and whatever. And I was based in Egypt to get to travel all through Egypt. And uh, I, I mean, I, I'm happy to stay someplace longer term. I don't have like a particular travel cadence that I'm trying to maintain. If I go somewhere and I meet someone or some people and I have reason to stay there or I love it or this, or I'll just stay longer, right?  

Matt:    01:23:13    So yeah, I, I think that's very flexible for me. I don't have a specific, oh, my lifestyle has to be exactly like this. It's like, no, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna experience this and place and then when I'm ready to go to the next place, I'll go to the next place. So yeah, there's a lot of places that I enjoy spending extended time and a lot of places I go back to, right? I mean, I try to go, I probably go to Spain once a year, uh, at this point I'm going back to Japan pretty regularly in part too, because those countries have very different places in them. Right? And we also talked about Brazil, right? I went to Japan for a month in Tokyo, then I went back for a month in Osaka, and then I went back a third time. I spent a month in Kyoto. And those are all very different places with very different experiences, but in the country and  

Kristin:    01:24:01    Yeah. And then there's Hokkaido in the north and Okinawa in the south, and then all the little towns in between. You can just have a completely different experience. And shout out to my most recent video. I don't know if you saw it on Japan.  

Matt:    01:24:15    I haven't seen it yet. No,  

Kristin:    01:24:16    I did, I did a video on the most kind of unique observations that I had while living in Japan, because I went to Japan for two weeks on a snowboarding trip, and I got injured twice. And I ended up in Tokyo for the next two and a half months. And I actually had trips to Dubai and South Africa that I canceled because I couldn't carry my luggage, I couldn't surf, snowboard, like I hurt my hand, my neck. And so I ended up living in Japan and completely just fell head over heels in love with that place. And so I did this reflection last week on what it was like living in Japan that was spurred by ending up in this Japanese restaurant here in Miami. And it was like flashback to Japan because it wasn't just a sushi place, it was an authentic Japanese restaurant. And just looking at the menu and the people working there, all of a sudden I had all these memories.  

Kristin:    01:25:13    And I came home that very night and I recorded that video and talked about what my life was like living there. And then I edited the video and I was very sentimental about it. And actually one of my friends, Greg, who owns tokyocheapo.com, I hadn't even sent him the video. And he watched it and I, I gave them a shout out in the video and he commented like, thanks for the shout out. And we were talking, I can't believe it was three years ago that we met in Tokyo. And just such a magical time. I really appreciate traveling so much more since it has been shut down. A bit.  

Matt:    01:25:50    Yeah, totally, totally agree. I mean, I think it really does give you appreciation for that. And I think when we start back up again, it'll probably be an increased appreciation as we renew that and all the things that we love about it. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I was just thinking about this since you asked me where would I stay longer or whatever. And I feel like the way that I nomad, I've probably divided my time over the last eight years since I've been full-time at attendant nomad fairly evenly between the different continents, right? I mean, I've spent, I've been no manning for eight years. I probably spent about two years on the continent of Africa, probably about two years in Europe, two years in Asia, two years in, you know, South America. Like I've probably actually divided it up fairly evenly.  

Matt:    01:26:37    And it's just because I have those amazing appreciation for all of those different cultures. And when I'm in one place for quite a while, I really start missing the other place. If I'm in Asia for like a really long time, like I'm loving it every minute of it, but then I'm like, oh, I really need to go to South America. Like, I haven't done that in a while. And then I, when I'm in Europe for like a really long time, it's like, oh man, I need to go to Africa. Like, I haven't really done that a long time.

Kristin:  Yeah, <laugh>.

Matt:  And then it's just like, you know, because I like the diversification. So like, yeah, I might stay somewhere for a while, but then I also like the ability to go and, and, and just immerse in like those other cultural elements that I dearly love that I haven't been getting because I've been in that one place for so long, you know?  

Kristin:    01:27:16    Oh, It's like some kind of emotional body or something. Because I was talking to your friend and your podcast guest, Michael Thilan about, he's been on this big surf trip to Hawaii and going to Mexico. And I was thinking, 'cause I've been surfing since I was 14 years old, and there are times where I'll go for months without surfing. And then I think to myself, I just need a good surf trip <laugh>. Like, I just need to go to some tropical place and go surfing and that's it. And then a week later I'll be wearing boots and a jacket in, like walking in the snow somewhere, <laugh> in another area, or in the rain in Amsterdam. And it's just having that kind of balance. And it's still mind boggling that we get to do that. And I think back to, you know, a hundred years ago, people would think that this was completely bonkers.  

Kristin:    01:28:13    I'd be like, what are you talking about? I mean, it would've been in the middle of what World War I be like, what you're working from computers and what in, what's a cell phone? And you can just go to, you could just fly to Germany for the day and take the train over here and like, go to Thailand. I mean, back then people were, yeah, they would take months to get around the world on these little planes. So it's just really cool time to be alive. Well, I thank you so much, Matt. I can't wait to see you again in real life soon, although we'll have to take these wine nights in the meantime. But where can people learn more about what you do? Well, wait, first of all, do you have any parting words of advice based on what we've talked about today? And then also where can people connect with you?  

Matt:    01:28:59    Yeah, listen, I mean, depending on where you are at in your journey, if, if you're at the early stage of your journey, I think the key, one of the key things is one is mindset and believing that you personally, not just somebody, but you personally can do it. And then just I, you know, just deus yourself with content of people that are doing it, have done it, how they did it, stories, all that kind of stuff. And, you know, you can do that on Badass Digital Nomads. You should watch and listen to every episode and also on the Maverick Show podcast, which I host. And so for, for folks that wanna check out The Maverick Show, you can get it on any podcasting platform that you listen to your podcast or you can just go to themaverickshow.com and all the episodes are there.  

Matt:    01:29:44    We talked about the types of guests that I have on there. So there's most of the episodes. I mean, they're super fun. We do it over a bottle of wine and we just tell travel stories and we talk about their business journey. And then I pull out tactical tips, you know, to help you in whatever it is that you are doing in your own, you know, business and professional journey. So you can kind of scroll through the episodes and just kind of click on the titles that you think look really interesting, just unbelievable human beings, uh, that are just doing incredible stuff. So definitely check out The Maverick Show. For folks that are interested in the real estate investing stuff, would love to connect with you on that. I actually have a free report, which is called Real Estate Investing for Digital Nomads. So if you would like to learn more about that, uh, you can go to themaverickshow.com/nomad and that'll take you there and you'll get a FREE Report, it's called Real Estate Investing for Digital Nomads, How to Buy US Rental Properties from anywhere in the World and Finance an Epic International Lifestyle.  

Matt:    01:30:44    And as soon as you grab that report, it'll also give you an opportunity if you'd like to schedule a phone consult with us. As I mentioned, uh, we want to personally connect with everybody. We are an entirely relationship-based, long-term relationship-based company with every one of our clients. And so we'd love to have you on a video consult and really get to know you, answer all your questions, understand where you are, where you want to go, and how we can help you on your journey through real estate investing. So that's theMaverickshow.com/nomad. And then the other thing that a lot of, I've just been getting a lot of positive feedback around from other nomads is that I also have a webinar on minimalist packing and specifically stylish minimalism, right? Because I've been doing this now for a long time. And on the nomad journey, I started out with an astronomical amount of luggage, which was ridiculous.  

Matt:    01:31:32    Uh, and then I was like, okay, I'm downsizing this luggage to carry on only. And then I'm like, okay, now we get back to this how, right? Like overcoming the perceived obstacles. How can I travel the world through multiple climates, full-time for a year plus skiing, beaches, dressing nights out, all this kind of stuff. How can I do it with carry on luggage only and not compromise or sacrifice, fashion and style? How would I do that <laugh>? And so I've spent years studying and refining this, and so I have an entire presentation on exactly how to do that. And men and women, you know, uh, as both, you know, applies and you can grab that. If you wanna check out that webinar that is for free, uh, you can just go to themaverickshow.com/packing and check out the Minimalist Packing Webinar there. And then if you want to just connect with me personally, my Instagram handle is @MattBowlesMaverick, M-A-T-T-B-O-W-L-E-S-M-A-V-E-R-I-C-K.  

Matt:    01:32:37    And you can just direct message me there. That's actually probably the best way if you want to connect with me personally, and I encourage you to do that. Like I, you know, all of the Badass Digital Nomads listeners and everybody that's in Kristin's ecosystem gets VIP, uh, you know, over here. So I will respond to your messages if you need real estate stuff, if you know it's more travel related stuff or you know, whatever it is, would love, love, love to connect with you. So just follow me on Instagram, shoot me a direct message and would be great to say hello.  

Kristin:    01:33:06    Awesome. I need to actually set up a call with you. I should do some more real estate investing. We gotta diversify out of Bitcoin <laugh>. No, but I actually own a property in Florida, but traveling around so much in the past, I always felt like I was too busy to do the research. So it's great to know that you have those services and that you can do all of that work for me and I can just pay the deposit <laugh> and get the property.

Matt:    01:33:35     Well, a bunch, I mean, a bunch of our, uh, actually Kristin, a bunch of our mutual nomad friends are actually buying through Maverick right now. They're under contract. They're actually literally doing the same thing, right?

Kristin:  It makes so much sense.


Matt:  They a bunch of money made Bitcoin, now they're diversifying into real estate. Um, my best friend from college has already bought five properties from Maverick this year. In 2021, he bought five properties already.  

Kristin:    01:33:59    I always say I wish I had 10 rental properties. I mean, if I, yeah, I have a duplex and it cash flows really well every month and I just wish I had owned 10 of them. Or more.  

Matt:    01:34:12    We'll, we'll set it up. Yeah. So that's the goal. We'll, we'll do the call. Okay. Absolutely. That sounds awesome.  

Kristin:    01:34:16    Alright, well thanks so much Matt. Thank you everybody for listening. Make sure to subscribe to Badass Digital Nomads and the Maverick Show if you haven't already. I've listened to almost every episode of the Maverick Show too and all of mine at least three or four times. So <laugh>, it's a good, it's a good call. And take care, Matt. Uh, can't wait to see you in Wine Country sometime soon. And, um, yeah, see everyone soon.  

Matt:    01:34:42    All right. Goodnight everybody.

Kristin:  Bye.  

Kristin:    01:34:48    If one of the reasons you want to travel or live abroad is to meet new people, well, you're definitely not alone. But even if you're not traveling right now, did you know that you can start connecting with other aspiring and experienced digital nomads today? It's true. As you know, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And in the Badass Digital Nomads Facebook group, you can connect with 4,000 other like-minded people from around the world who all share the same values of freedom and location independence. Plus, if you wanna become part of my inner circle, you can join my Patreon page for $5 per month and get direct access to private message me. Submit your questions for my podcast guests, contribute your opinion on new content ideas, and get early access to preview all of my YouTube videos before they're published. You'll also get to attend monthly private Zoom Hangouts with myself and other patrons. We just had a one and a half hour call last night with patrons from around the world calling in from places like Bali, California, Michigan, and Nebraska. It was so much fun. And you can join us for the next call by becoming a patron today at patreon.com/travelingwithKristin. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com/travelingwithKristin.