How To Make $10K/Mo as a Digital Nomad Copywriter in Budapest

Sneak Peek:

Francis:    00:00:00    I love that. I love that. I mean that's a souvenir, that's a good memory to have that, you know, if you just go to a meetup, you never know who you meet and what you can get into eventually.  

Kristin:    00:00:09    Yeah, like that meetup is the reason that you're on my podcast right now.  

Francis:    00:00:14    Yeah, exactly. Exactly.  

Kristin:    00:00:15    Mine blown. It's the reason that you make like six figures a year writing and when you didn't even know you thought that copywriting was being like a copyright lawyer. 

Francis:    00:00:23    It's so crazy. It's so crazy.  

Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests.

Kristin:    00:00:45    Hi everyone. Kristin from Traveling with Kristin here. And before we get into today's episode, I wanted to let you know about another podcast that you should definitely subscribe to. My friend Mikkel Thorup is the host of The Expat Money Show. A top rated podcast for people like you who love to travel, are looking for more freedom in their lives, and who are curious about living abroad and the expat lifestyle. With more than 100 episodes to date, Mikkel goes deep into topics like offshore citizenship banking and investing. Mikkel is one of the few people I've met in this space who definitely knows what he's talking about. He's traveled to more than 100 countries in the last 20 years and lived in eight of them as a full-time expat. The Expat Money Show is available on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher Radio, or anywhere popular podcasts are found. There's a new episode every single week and previous notable guests have included Jim Rogers, Doug Casey, John Perkins, Grant Cardone, and yours truly, Kristin Wilson. Subscribe to The Expat Money Show today and make sure to catch Mikkel's episode 71 of Badass Digital Nomads on How to live, work and invest offshore. And now on with today's show.

Kristin:    00:02:26    Hi everyone, Kristin from Traveling with Kristin here and my guest today is Francis Nayan, a former anthropology major who stumbled into the digital nomad lifestyle while he was teaching English abroad in Budapest Hungary. Now at the time, Francis was just struggling to get by living on less than $800 per month, but things change quick. And just a couple years later, he's now earning six figures per year as a self-employed location, independent copywriter who's working from his laptop everywhere from Europe to Mexico. In today's episode, Francis talks about how he overcame a severe drug addiction in college and got clean then how he got his life back on track and found a job in Europe before eventually teaching himself how to make money online. And all of this was even before he owned a laptop. Francis' story is super informative but also inspiring and in this episode we talk about things like how to monetize your skills and make your very first dollars online, how to overcome imposter syndrome and how he made friends and met his girlfriend while living abroad as a full-time expat, at the end

Kristin:    00:03:48    He also tells me what he wishes someone told him before he became a digital nomad. Francis also shares some of his top productivity tips and breaks down his cost of living in Mexico and Hungary plus shares some must visit digital nomad destinations and foods that you should try during your travels. As usual, make sure to check the show notes for all the resources we share. And shout out to Laura Cruz from Brazil who left the following review. This podcast has been an indispensable resource for me as I begin my journey into location and financial independence. Kristin is incredibly smart, sharing what she's learned from a sincere and passionate place in order to empower people from all walks of life to believe in themselves, step outside their comfort zone and fulfill their dreams of autonomy and life enriching travel wealth of genuine knowledge for the aspiring digital nomad. Thank you so much, Laura for the nice words and thank you to everyone who's out there listening every week sharing this podcast and of course leaving reviews. I hope you all enjoy today's show. Let's get started.

Podcast Interview:

Kristin: Well, welcome so much Francis to Badass Digital Nomads. Where are you right now? Give us a little bit of context into your surroundings being the experience digital nomad that you are.  

Francis:    00:05:28    Thank you so much for having me, Kristin. I am right now in Oaxaca, Mexico in Puerto Escondido to be more specific. And yeah, I've been here for about three weeks now. Just moved here from living in Budapest, which is actually at my permanent resident. Just been here for a few weeks and just kind of enjoying the sun and trying to survive covid restriction, depression and <laugh>, try trying to get a lot of work done too. So yeah, thanks for having me.  

Kristin:    00:05:57    Super relatable. <laugh>, I'm sure a lot of people in cold dreary places under very strict lockdown while listening to this will definitely relate to that. And I also love that you are, uh, choosing your destinations based on your lifestyle and your work goals because that is something that I am always practicing and preaching is to like take advantage of this lifestyle, to be able to align it with your health and wellness needs with your financial needs. So it's great to hear that you are there in Mexico and we are talking in the pre-interview that you are learning how to surf. Is there anything else that brought you there? Was it like Mexican food or <laugh> guacamole? 

Francis:    00:06:42    Yeah.  Yeah, I mean of course the Mexican food was like a big draw. I mean, so I was looking at places to go for a while now. You know, I was looking at to Spain, I was, I have family in the Philippines so I was like, can I even go there? Uh, of course being from Memphis, I wanted to spend time with family and see if that was an option, but at the end of the day I came here because uh, you know, there's just like a lot of sun right now and I wanted to um, just be outside because you know, it's, you know, the time, uh, we are recording, this is January and it's absolutely freezing in Budapest and you know, there's not a lot of sun to begin with, but you know, with having to be, you know, locked down, there's even less sun. And it was just, um, yeah, it was just like, as you said, it was just a way to take care of myself, kind of have some fresh air, stretch my legs a little bit, but of course be safe with, you know, everything involved. And yeah, I mean it was to kind of help out everything, you know, including my work. So now, now that I'm here, it's definitely a lot more focused and a lot more, I guess. Yeah, just a clearer mind. So yeah, that's one of the reasons why I came here.   

Kristin:    00:07:45    So I wanna talk a bit about your digital nomad strategy in a little bit as far as why you've settled in Budapest and if you keep a home base there and some of the lifestyle and cost of living tips and some insights into the vibe, like the digital nomad and expat lifestyle over there. 'cause I know it is such a digital nomad hotspot. I haven't been there in like 12 years, but it, it's, it's a really fun place. So I wanna talk about that in a little bit. But first let's just dive into your background so people can kind of get to know your roots, like where you're from and how you ended up as a digital nomad copywriter in Europe to begin with. Like, just give us a little insight into your upbringing and how you ended up traveling and teaching yourself to make money online.  

Francis:    00:08:33    Yeah, yeah, I mean it's been, you know, one hell of a journey really, Kristin. So I guess the idea of me going out and traveling and like working from home and kind of being very independent has always been kind of a kind of a calling for me, even as a kid, you know, I think I always remember even being a 7-year-old looking out my window and being like, I really want to travel the world. I wanna go to other places. I wanna leave Memphis and do this and do that. And you know, I think even my, my upbringing with like going to different schools for, you know, consecutive years kind of gave me this kind of itch to be like, I gotta always be at my comfort zone. Like, it's almost like being out of my comfort zone became my comfort zone. And so I think that's always like a feeling that I've been trying to, to get it.  

Francis:    00:09:18    Sometimes it's been kind of impulsive. So, you know, I think we were talking in our pre-interview, you said how you listen to a couple podcasts. You might've saw the one about my like darker past into like a drug addiction and things like that. And yeah, there is that part of me where it was like very bad. You know, I did deal with like heroin addiction and opiates and things like that. But that during that time it kind of, when I finally got over it and got clean and got sober for a bit, inspired myself to go and do the exact opposite of it, instead of being like completely dependent on something and being stuck, I want to experience like true freedom. And so that's one of the things that, you know, I strove for. And the first step that I really took was to become a English teacher in Barcelona.  

Francis:    00:10:05    So about nine months after my overdose, I moved to Spain, had a job teaching in a primary school in Barcelona. And that was like kind of my first taste of being out of the country and traveling the world. And I was taking it like small trips every month. And then, you know, I had this plan to teach English in five countries in five years and Hungary was like the next spot. And then, you know, I moved to Budapest and after teaching in Spain for one year and I just fell in love with the place. You know, Budapest is super fun and as you said, it's very cosmopolitan, it's very international. There's nomads, there's remote workers, there's people from everywhere. And I absolutely loved it. But of course I was just teaching English and I kind of still felt a little restricted from doing what I actually wanted to do.  

Francis:    00:10:54    And then that's when I just googled how to make money online. And of course I got like blasted by like Facebook ads like shortly after by a bunch of people who said they could promise me, you know, that goal. But yeah, I remember I met some guy, some German guy at a, at a meetup in Budapest and his name is Finn Lobson, still a good friend of mine today. And I asked him, you know, what he does because he was traveling and you know, all around the world writing, and he is only like 20 years old at the time. And he said, you know, I'm a freelance copywriter. And I said, you know, what the heck is that? Are you like a lawyer? Like what's a copywriter? Like, how are you 20 years old? I'm like a copyright lawyer. And he's like, no, I, I, uh, I sell things through like written word and I was fascinated by it. And you went home, kind of googled that, wanted to know what it was all about. And yeah, I just got hooked. He sent me a bunch of resources and that was December, 2017, I think. And yeah, I guess that was like the start of my entire journey.  

Kristin:    00:11:56    Awesome. Yeah, not that long ago. And it, and it, at the end of the interview we're gonna delve into more about like, some of those resources that you have for people that are just starting out or they're interested in learning, like how they can make money online as a copywriter. 'cause that's what we wanna show here is all the different ways that people can support themselves while traveling, whether they are eating amazing bakery items, <laugh> in, in Budapest, or, uh, sipping on margaritas and surfing in Mexico. It's like, it sounds so cliche, but that's what we're all doing here. Yeah. And that's what we're here to do is help other people do the same thing. Just like to go back a little bit in your background, and of course we can do like a whole separate episode just on the addiction part because that is such a profound thing that affects so many people. And so what I'll do is link to that other podcast episode that's like an hour long that you go really deep into that story. But when you were, were you in high school or college when that happened?  

Francis:    00:12:59    I was in university, yeah, I was, uh, I think the addiction, it was from the age of 19 to about 22.  

Kristin:    00:13:05    Okay. And you had the overdose, you said about nine months before you started traveling. So were, had you graduated yet from university?  

Francis:    00:13:15    No. So it was one of those things where I was like, just become a bad student towards the end I would, I guess I was like a high functioning addict where I wasn't like completely passed out and song out of the drugs, but I was still like trying to go to class failing classes, but I wasn't, uh, no, I didn't graduate at that point yet.  

Kristin:    00:13:34    Did you graduate ultimately?  

Francis:    00:13:36    Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. It took me a while to get the, to get the credits out of the way, but it definitely happened.  

Kristin:    00:13:43    What did you major in in college?  

Francis:    00:13:45    I studied anthropology in college and I think that's, that was one of the signs that was like, I definitely am in love with learning about other cultures and, you know, diving into like different, you know, parts of the world and kind of understanding customs and different people and things like that. So yeah, I had a focus in, in archeology and so I think it definitely took me a while to come down to Mexico, which was like my archeology was the thing I studied the most. But I mean, it, it, it definitely added to, to my interest and to traveling.  

Kristin:    00:14:19    I love that because I've talked to so many listeners of the podcast who have said my background doesn't have any crossover into remote work skills or digital nomad skills, or they're like, yeah, my major and my job experience isn't relevant for ways to make money online. So I love that you are an archeology major who ended up teaching English and then becoming a freelance copywriter because those things seem so disconnected. Did you have any jobs at all in archeology or out of college? Did you just say like, you know what, I'm just gonna apply for whatever job I can get that helps me travel and I'm gonna start there?  

Francis:    00:14:57    Yeah, no, I mean, I didn't have any job that was related to anthropology or archeology, you know, I would, oh, sorry.  

Kristin:    00:15:04    Yeah, that's what I meant. <laugh>.  

Francis:    00:15:05    Yeah, I mean, I would say though that studying anthropology and archeology, it did help me out as a writer, you know, especially as a copywriter. So, you know, a big thing with writing copy is doing research on, you know, the, the prospect with the pain points and desires. You know, what makes them tick, what are, what's missing in their lives, you know, what's going on in their lives, how do they, how do they speak, how do they talk, what do they listen to and things like that. So learning how to do deep like anthropological research and understanding cultures and customs that helped, that has still helped me so much when I help my clients out trying to write to, you know, their prospects and understanding, you know, what they want to hear, how they live. It's given me, you know, deeper perspective. So I have been able to use some connection in some way, but I haven't had like a direct archeological job or, you know, anthropology gig. I'm not even sure there's like, that's like such a thing. <laugh>, I'm pretty sure most anthropologists  

Kristin:    00:16:00    You could probably apply for a grant.  

Francis:    00:16:02    Yeah, yeah. Something like that.   

Kristin:    00:16:04    You do research. I've met quite a few researchers and PhDs and people on sabbatical like, or they're like either living off of grant money and traveling as digital nomads or they're just like in between research projects and living on savings and traveling around. So that actually is a path, uh, to becoming either an expat or a digital nomad. But yeah, that's true. That's so fascinating. And I do know a few anthropologist digital nomads I should have. Oh, that's awesome. There's a couple of my other friends that I met on Nomad Cruise that have a background in that, and I, I probably would've majored in that back in college had I been able to make a decision. I ended up going with international business. But it is really fascinating. It like to learn, it's like a mixture of everything, you know, history and people and psychology. And do you feel like that has helped you adapt better to living in foreign countries, like having this foundation of understanding of the differences, but yet the similarities between people and the human race?  

Francis:    00:17:02    For sure. I mean, it's given me an open mind, so everywhere I go I kind of like understand that things are done differently. So I kind of go in with like no ego and I try to go in, you know, just as polite and as humble as possible trying to, you know, understand the customs and you know, how the people in the country are. And it's been amazing. I mean, I've had some incredible experiences just because I've just had, you know, an e even more like open mind. I mean, you know, even that's how I fell into copywriting is because, you know, instead of just being like, oh, that sounds like crazy, I don't know what that is. I was able to dive into it and just give myself the chance to learn more about it. You know, in traveling it's, uh, it's helped out a whole lot just because, you know, I've been able to meet so many amazing people because I've just shown interest because, you know, maybe I do research on a place I'm going to, and then I, uh, I meet somebody who is from there and I kind of like, we bond over some random fact that I learned and it's, it's helped out so much and meeting other people and making the best out of all my experiences.  

Kristin:    00:18:10    So you said that you were, that you met this German guy in Budapest. I'm gonna say Budapest 'cause I can't pronounce Budapest, right? <laugh>, whatever. Everyone knows what I mean. I'm fascinated to know. So you were teaching English at that time. How did you meet him? Was it at like an expat meetup or some kind of digital nomad meetup? Because that was 2017. So digital nomads were definitely a thing by that point.  

Francis:    00:18:34    Oh yeah. 100%. 100%. And I did meet him at some like, yeah, and they called it the International Meeting Point in Budapest. And basically it's a way for expats and travelers and yet digital nomads to meet up and get to know each other just because it's like a, you know, it's an amazing, like social city, you know, there's a lot of parties, a lot of people from everywhere. And so yeah, I met him just at this event and I can't remember how exactly we met. I think I just, I don't know, I think I was like buying a beer or something and I bumped into him 'cause he was super tall and I was like, kind of awkward and I was like, oh, hey, what's your name? But yeah, I mean, it was amazing. 'cause you know, I, I talk about him and meeting, you know, meeting him that night. But I definitely met a handful of other digital nomads who were doing a lot of, uh, you know, a lot of different things that at that point I had no clue. You know, they were drop shipping or they were doing content writing. Some of them had their own podcasts, some of them were, you know, SEO consultants. So yeah, I mean there's, those types of events are absolutely amazing. I feel like, I feel like I should go to one soon, especially wherever I am, whatever city I'm in.  

Kristin:    00:19:43    Yeah, it's really a great way to meet people. And, and if, if you're listening and you've never been to this kind of expat or digital nomad meetup before, it's honestly like a rite of passage. And it's such a definitive experience in life because until you go to this exact type of meetup, it's like maybe you've met people just organically. Maybe you met them at conferences or networking events or kind of in more manufactured settings. But there's something really unique about the digital nomad expat meetups where it's like a bunch of misfits, <laugh>, yeah. From all ages, all backgrounds, like all countries, all industries that are not there to get anything from each other. They're just there to meet people and like exchange information, get to know each other, just basically to meet new people. So it's like you've never, I've personally never been in another situation that was so genuine and so completely open with no preconceptions, no discrimination, no judgment. It's just, uh, did you feel the same way?  

Francis:    00:20:56    Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, I was over there and I was more of like the expat, not so much a digital nomad at that point, but it, it was really fun to meet other people from, you know, from the states or from Southeast Asia or other parts of Europe who were just in Budapest and they just wanted to meet new people. Yeah, that was the whole thing was like, no one was there for networking or trying to get new business or anything. It was like, Hey, I'm new to this city. I don't know anyone. I just wanna make some friends. And then, yeah, I mean I've, I've met some of my best friends ever, you know, at these meetups. And it's pretty cool because you go in and yeah, as you said, it's kind of like a, you're like a group of misfits, so you kind of, it's, it's pretty fun to go there and meet a bunch of people who are like, oh yeah, I'm, I'm a weirdo also. 'cause I left my, I left my home, I left my home country and I don't know when I'll get back or, um, the, I'm the weirdo who is, I'm in Budapest for the next week, uh, you know, the next week I'm going to end up somewhere else. So it's pretty cool to meet those people who have the, uh, the same passion as you of, you know, traveling or, you know, running an online business or something like that. So it's definitely, yeah, like a rite of passage and it's a very special feeling. It's very special.  

Kristin:    00:22:04    Yeah. And it's kind of like the definition of meeting someone where they are. It's like you just dive so deep into getting to know a person because you skip right through the small talk. It's kind of like, here we are in this foreign country, in this foreign city, like having this, um, transformative life experience and growing and learning things. And it's just like you're kind of all coming together at that similar point on your individual trajectories, but all inner sectoring in the same place. And it just creates this really, like magic. It's hard to describe, but I just recommend if anyone's listening and you ever get the opportunity to go to any sort of expat meetup or digital nomad event. InterNations is one that really changed my life. I've gone to their meetups, but there's always local ones in any country you've been to before, InterNations. I used to go to like the Costa Rica expat meetup, and it was just like a bunch of retired people and me, and I was like 22 <laugh> <laugh>. I'm like, Hey guys. And everyone's like 65 and up. I was like, oh, that's cool. I'm an old soul. So I made friends with like a bunch of retired people, but they're great too. They accepted me.

Francis:  Yeah, exactly.  

Kristin:    00:23:15    I was like, I was making sushi with like these retired people in Costa Rica and this like random somebody's house. Yeah, that's a in mountains.  

Francis:    00:23:23    Yeah, it's a cool story. I love it. Yeah, I love that.  

Kristin:    00:23:26    I still have my book on how to make sushi. It's like a paper, like printout, you know, those like books that you would, or reports you would print out in high school and college that would be like bound at the print shop. It was like that. Wow. Or the spiral.

Francis:  Oh wow.

Kristin:  Yeah.  

Francis:    00:23:40    I love that. I love that. I mean, that's a souvenir, that's a good memory to have that, you know, if you just go to a meetup, you never know who you meet and what you can get into eventually.  

Kristin:    00:23:49    Yeah. Like that meetup is the reason that you're on my podcast right now.  

Francis:    00:23:54    Yeah, exactly. Exactly.  

Kristin:    00:23:55    Mind blown. It's the reason that you make like six figures a year writing and when you didn't even know you thought that copywriting was being like a copyright lawyer. <laugh>

Francis:    00:24:05   Yeah. So I was like, let's, I don't know. It's so crazy. It's so crazy.  

Kristin:    00:24:08    Yeah, let's dive more into that part of it. Like, the biggest problem that people have is starting something new and like learning something new. Especially as adults when there's like no overt pressure. It's not like you're at school, they give you the course syllabus, here's the deadlines, here's the projects, here's when they're due. It's like this never ending thing. And a lot of people I've talked to, they say that, you know, I've been researching for like five years and I'm still not sure what to do. So what were, what was the way that you taught yourself copywriting after Googling? Like, what was your next step?  

Francis:    00:24:44    Yeah, so my next step after Googling--googling it was to find a laptop. You know, so I, I've been talking this whole time, like I've been googling how to be a copywriter as if I have my own laptop to live the laptop lifestyle. And I remember I didn't even have a laptop, so, you know, I was still teaching in Budapest at that at that time. And I think, yeah, it was December, so I was gonna get like a little Christmas bonus. And so I used like all-- 

Kristin:    00:25:07    Oh, how much were you making, by the way?  

Francis:    00:25:09    Oh, as a teacher, I'm not really in USD, I'm not sure. I think it, it couldn't have been more than like $800, like USD $800 or $900 USD, so  

Kristin:    00:25:18    That's what I was thinking. Like less than a thousand probably.  

Francis:    00:25:21    Yeah, for sure. For sure. And so I went on like Facebook marketplace and I bought a laptop, like a really horrible, like 11 inch screen that I'm pretty sure was just on its last leg because it wouldn't, when I bought it, it would only cost me like $200 and it wouldn't even charge unless, you know, it was like propped up on like,

Kristin:  uh, God

Francis:  on like a, you know, coffee mug or something like that. But that was my first step. I got that. And then I just started, I mean, I, at that point, Upwork  was not as well known as it is now, or I mean, it was still pretty popular back then, but I mean, that's where I, I, I kind of jumped off and I didn't know to call myself a copywriter or content writer or, you know, SEO expert or anything like that.  

Francis:    00:26:04    I just knew that I wanted to write. So basically I had an idea of what a, what a copywriter or content writer was. And so anytime there was a job posting for, for that, I just applied. And, you know, I was a terrible pitcher. I had no clue what I was doing. Um, eventually somebody hired me to do like a $5 blog post on like IT software, which is hilarious 'cause I don't, I know nothing about it. You know, e, like, you know, even still to this day, um, if this laptop broke down, I probably would just buy a new one or something like that. I would have have like, no clue. That was just like the start of like, you know, creating momentum. You know, one project became two, two became three, and, but it was like a really slow road. So definitely dove into, you know, the blog posts on how to write copy had to be a better writer and things like that. So that was kind of like, I, I kind of just jumped into the fire, Kristin, like, I had really no idea what I was doing. It made so many mistakes. But, you know, that's the, that's part of the process.  

Kristin:    00:27:04    Yeah. And I think, you know, in hindsight it's like, yeah, you started at $5. But I always tell people that once you make your first dollar online and you see that it's possible that will grow if you keep at it, each one of these income streams that you make. And I'm always coaching people on their first income stream because that's what I specialize in. Because that's what was so difficult for me was figuring out that first step to becoming a digital nomad. The one way that I could, like my exit strategy for making money online and getting out of the physical business of selling real estate, which I think is really interesting that we started the same, even though it was in different countries and in different time periods. Because my ticket to freedom was to take a job selling real estate in Costa Rica. And your ticket was to take a job teaching English in Spain.  

Kristin:    00:27:57    Yeah, right, in Europe. And so we had physical jobs that were both paying us a thousand dollars a month and we were able to over time, transcend into the online business world. But we started from physical jobs. And it's not that much different than starting from a physical job in your home country, whether it's like the US or Canada or Africa or Australia or India or wherever you're listening from, especially like in the context of the pandemic, when people are getting their first taste of working remotely, it's like you can then, you know, move yourself to that other country. So even though we were physically locked into a job, the only difference was we were in kind of a cool place to like base ourselves out of, or at least different than what we had grown up in. And that gave us like that, that adventure. But then, you know, that the, the freedom of the location independent part is like the real key. So I love that you started at $5 blog posts because frankly you didn't deserve to make more than that <laugh>. Yeah, no,  

Francis:    00:29:01    You know, no, I really didn't. That was horrible. I remember, I even, I think I got fired from that, from the person who hired me like three weeks later. 'cause I couldn't like, I don't know, can't making--

Kristin:    00:29:09     Did you get an Upwork review at least. 

Francis:    00:29:12    I got like a three outta five star, like Upwork review. Yeah. So it wasn't even that great. I'm pretty sure it like ruined my Upwork score and like probably hindered other people from hiring me on Upwork.

Kristin:  Oh, a bummer.

Francis:  Yeah. That was like, yeah, but I agree with you, you, when you first get that, that first like payment, you, you can see that it's actually, you can actually do it. Like even though it was, uh, only $5 for me and Upwork takes like 20%. So it was really like $4 for me. I was still like, oh my God, this is like amazing. And I don't think any, I don't think any online business owner or digital nomad will ever forget the first time they made money online, so.  

Kristin:    00:29:51    Oh yeah. Very special for sure. Kind of like side note, but is there any moment that you saw like a notification or something on your phone that you got paid and you were doing something really cool? Oh yeah, maybe you were with your girlfriend, like having a glass of wine at the chain bridge at sunset and then like cha-ching happens on your phone, even though that's also like cliche, but it really happens. 

Francis:    00:30:15    Nothing.  It wasn't that romantic at all. I think I was just in my room reading another failed Upwork pitch or something, and then it was like, um, you know, so and so transferred $5 to your account. Yeah, I mean I just thought it was hilarious looking back at it now. 'cause it's like, yeah, they take 20%, so it was really like $4. But then I tried to transfer it over to like my bank account, which takes another like, dollar out. It was like, it's a, you know, I had like a, I was like taking money out with an American card, so there's like a little fee. So really if I try to take that, you know, $4 out of my, of my account, it'd only be really like $1. So I think--  

Kristin:    00:30:53    That is a, that is a great, that is exactly the reason why I use Transferwise <laugh>, which I talk about a lot in my pre-rolls. I'm gonna just name drop that right now that you can get your first transfer up to 500 pounds for free by using travelingwithKristin.com/transferwise. Because I used to travel the world for like 10, 12 years with paying international withdrawal fees and transfer fees and like ATM fees. And I've cut that down by like, I think it's now at maybe 10% or less of what it used to be.

Francis:  Amazing.

Kristin:  And so the big reason for that, Thank God, is Transferwise, who's now sponsored my YouTube channel completely randomly. I've been preaching about TransferWise for years.

Francis:  Oh same, same.

Kristin:  Ive, I've been signing up my, my relocation clients for it who, who aren't even digital nomads. Like some of them are just moving from one country to another.  

Kristin:    00:31:45    Transferwise had no idea who I was. And then like a, a couple months ago, they're like, Hey, we've watched your videos, we'd love to sponsor one of them. And I was like, oh, there is a, like, it's like synchronicity universe, like yeah, the perfect match because I'm such a huge fan. Anyway, so you were making $5 as a copywriter and like where did you get your big break? Because copywriters can make a lot of money. Like I have, I know some friends, they charge like multiple five figures per day to do a, a writing session with somebody. So how did you go from making like $2 and 30 cents off Upwork to finally getting a better paycheck from people in your network? Or were you hold emailing people? Like where did you find your first real clients?  

Francis:    00:32:33    So my first big client actually came from the school I was working at. So I decided to own the fact that I was a freelance copywriter. So I posted it on my social media onto my Instagram, Francis Nayan, freelance copywriter, all that stuff. Eventually a father from a father of one of the kids who I taught in the school I was teaching, he reached out to me on Instagram of all places and he was like, Hey, I saw that you're a freelance copywriter. The business that I work for is looking for a copywriter. If you want, I can get you an interview. And I was just like, absolutely shocked because, you know, he showed me the company and it was like this, you know, full contact fight league and it had some celebrities attached to it. And you know, they were traveling to, to Budapest, to Greece, you know, they had, uh, like, uh, this entire year mapped out.  

Francis:    00:33:29    So they, they would be traveling all over to have these events. And that was my first big, my, I guess my first big break. 'cause that was my first time having like a big time client. That was my first retainer where I was making a couple thousand a month just through this one client. And I, you know, didn't even have to work that much throughout the day, which I thought was like absolutely crazy. But that was like my big break because I, I met a lot of really great business owners, marketers just through that one connect who, you know, would, they would end up being, you know, my reference when I would cold pitch potential clients or to have, you know, I would have them on my LinkedIn just saying good words, you know, good words about me. And that was my big break ever since then. That was the, the floodgates opened like shortly after that.  

Kristin:    00:34:18    That's awesome. It's like fake it till you make it, but you really were doing the work at the same time. Everybody has imposter syndrome at some time or another, and sometimes it never goes away, but it's important to remember that everyone also has skills. And if you feel like you're ready for that next thing, sometimes you've waited too long. So I love the fact that you are in your, you know, in your room like Googling and reading about copywriting and trying small jobs and trying to get better so that when this client came around and you were like, trying to embody this identity, like you said, I owned the identity of being a copywriter. Like, this is what I'm gonna be, this is what I am, I'm stepping into this and now I'm a copywriter, gonna update my profiles, make it happen. And then you don't realize that other people see that and they just like assume, okay, well this person's a copywriter, so they must know about copywriting.  

Francis:    00:35:14    They don't, they, I was like, they must be legit. And I was like, you know, I remember being on the interview and people were like, yeah, so tell me your biggest projects. And I was like, oh my God, they're record. I was like, they're gonna laugh at me. I was like, there's like eight people on the call and there are gonna be like, this guy has no experience. But then, yeah, I was able to at least make myself sound like a little bit, a little better than than I actually was. But yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where you have an opportunity, you know, don't wanna get all like Eminem eight mile on you, but, you know, it was like a big opportunity and I didn't wanna blow it. So.  

Kristin:    00:35:46    And you've gotta be like, like if you're listening to this, like you'll be ready when that happens. I just saw a headline about a girl who's gonna be reading her poetry at the White House inauguration.

Francis:  Oh wow.

Kristin:  And I think she's like 20 or something. I don't think she was in her bedroom. Like, I'm gonna write this poem and then I'm gonna read it at the presidential inauguration. Oh no. Oh no. Like, she clearly probably doesn't feel ready for that, but she's like, well, this opportunity's here, I make poems, therefore I will go read my poetry <laugh> at the White House. And you know, if, if something happens, you just have to rise to the challenge. But luckily we are all equipped with that, those genes in our DNA that we can like turn on the pressure hustle gene, that when we are given like a stretch goal or a timeline or a deadline or something, it's like we figure out how to make it happen in that amount of time. And you really only need that one client that's gonna give you a couple thousand dollars of recurring income. And that can be that key to unlock your freedom of location independence and to be able to support yourself, quite frankly, perfectly fine in a country like Hungary, but also in a place like Mexico, like Southeast Asia. So that is awesome. So you're then copywriting, getting some clients. What are, like, at this point, it's been a couple years, what are the different income streams that you have and how did you set those up? 

Francis:    00:37:14   You know, I am now not so much, I am still a copywriter, but now I, I also work a whole lot email marketing. So I've expanded my skill of just, you know, of not just being a copywriter. So there's a big thing in the copywriting community of, you know, we're all marketers or, you know, don't just be a copywriter. So I expanded my skill to be an email marketer. So I guess that'd be another form of income of managing e-commerce email accounts, um, helping business owners, store owners, even personal brands, make more money through email. And then also recently I dove into creating digital products. So, you know, as I mentioned to you, I do have a new ebook coming out that I'm selling, you know, it's on Amazon, it's on Kindle, it's called the Click Rate Code. And you know, that's just all about, you know, how to make money through email.  

Francis:    00:38:02    And within the next few months, I'll actually be diving more into freelance coaching. So helping people kind of transition into becoming freelance copywriters or freelance email marketers because, you know, that's just the, the type of work that I'm the most used to. So I'm, I'm creating these little, uh, these little pockets, income streams that, you know, will hopefully, you know, boost my income and I can make a bigger impact on people's lives, which, you know, so far within the last few months of, you know, people who joined my email list and who kind of take my advice and things like that, you know, it's, it's very fulfilling. That's, uh, what I've been working on lately.  

Kristin:    00:38:38    Yeah, and that's great because it's, you know, it's something that you know how to do. Maybe you're not the best copywriter in the world, but who is, you know, everybody's at different levels, but you can still teach other people and you're helping them, you're providing, uh, value for them, and you're also getting better at your craft by breaking it down and teaching it to other people and writing about how to write. So for people who are unfamiliar, like copywriting, this could be something that's done on a website, on a sales page. Um, there's different forms of it. Then there's of course regular content writing, which could just be, you know, news articles or how-to articles or listicles or, or topics, you know, that you might search for on Google. And then there's also copy for ads and email marketing and all sorts of things. So this is just one of the many ways that, that writers can make money. What are some resources that you can recommend, uh, for people? Of course we'll link to your book and your contact info in the show notes, but are there any like cool copywriters that you follow on social media or any books that really helped you level up your skills? Yeah,  

Francis:    00:39:46    So I do have to give a shout out to my two mentors, uh, Rob Marsh and Kira Hug of The Copywriter Club. They are of course two copywriters, you know, pretty well known. You know, I'm kind of giving them credit because they're actually very well known in the community of helping people transition into being freelance copywriters. So their communities very, you know, newbie friendly. And you know, they help people not just uplevel their skills as copywriters, but also as freelance business owners. And, you know, I'm actually still being mentored by them, you know, I'm in their kind of high level mastermind learning on how to improve my business and things like that. But, you know, if anyone is listening to this and you know, they wanna learn how to start a freelance business, how to be a writer, then I definitely think, you know, check out The Copywriter Club. I do have a podcast episode with them, so definitely check that out too. But, you know, Rob and Kira are amazing, uh, amazing people. And I think, yeah, if you're interested, definitely check them out.  

Kristin:    00:40:43    Awesome. We're gonna link to that in the show notes. And I'm in a couple of those copywriting groups on Facebook. I'll have to see if we're in the same ones. So how much do you work these days? Like you're working on a lot of passion projects, but you're also doing client work, so, and I know that you said, um, before the interview we were talking in and you mentioned that you moved to Mexico because you wanted to be in the sun, but also to have a place where you could be more productive and, you know, work. So how much are you working and can you explain the, the concept that you have of like, laptop before lifestyle? 

Francis:    00:41:21    Yeah,  Yeah. So, you know, I'm a big proponent of like deep work of shout out to Cal report. So, you know, not just having deep work of like, you know, I'm gonna focus on, you know, this project for the next hour, but maybe, you know, I'm gonna focus on this bigger project on the next day or this entire week. So I'm a big like, productivity like nerd, and I'm super into habit. So when it comes to like working on my income streams or working on client work, I devote a specific amount of time so I can get all of that done. So instead of just going from, you know, client work to working on my business to creating this digital product, or promoting this or getting on a podcast, I try not to do all of it all like, everything in like one day. So I try to batch everything based on a certain category.  

Francis:    00:42:08    So, you know, right now it is almost early evening, you know, my time. So then, you know, I do all of my calls around this time, so that way I'm kind of in the zone. I can be very effective. And, you know, as when I'm writing this morning, my mind is in writing mode. So that's one of my favorite ways to stay productive and to get as much done. So just last week I was working on a new digital product of like these 12 email campaigns that I, that I write for my clients. And just for like the entire week I was just focusing on this one product. So no client work, nothing really on the business other than just this. And I was, I was able to get it done where, you know, I think otherwise it probably would've taken me a few weeks. I might've just kind of done a little bit here, a little bit there and maybe would've just been on the shelf kind of having everything and, and focusing on one task. It's, that's my way of, of being productive and getting, getting as much done as possible.  

Kristin:    00:43:06    And then go surfing on the weekend <laugh>  

Francis:    00:43:08    Yeah. And then go surfing on the weekends. Yeah. And then of course, it's, uh, making that sacrifice of is this, uh, you know, how important is this to me? Can I take the, the afternoon off? Can I take the day off? And at the end of the day, I really just wanna get it done. You know, I know a lot of people, they may not have so many projects, which is like awesome and, you know, they can do that, but, uh, you know, sometimes you gotta bite the bullet and sit down in front of the laptop and do some work.  

Kristin:    00:43:33    And I think like, there is that novelty of, you know, taking a important business call or something while you're hiking up a pyramid or like, there's all these stories that I've heard on podcasts, but we were also talking before the, the, the show that after having traveled for so many years, and I'm at the 20 year mark, I think after the first 5, 7, 8 years, you start to really like find your flow. And you've been doing this for five years now, and so you start to really value that separation between work and lifestyle. And it's like, sure, you can take that business call in the bathroom of the airport or whatever, <laugh>, but I just love to do one thing at the same time. Exactly. And I have like, take it, I like to take calls while I'm walking and stuff, and yeah, sometimes it's on a beach, sometimes it's in a forest.  

Kristin:    00:44:23    Like things like that. It's okay, but I wanna be really present when I'm doing something. And I don't wanna be with like a group of cool people doing something really cool, like dancing at a music festival on top of the, a mountain in the Alps and being like, hold on guys, I have a Zoom call scheduled. Yeah, at 3:00 PM <laugh> gonna hop into the like bathroom and take this call. No, I like to have that separation. And so that's really like what the, the beauty of this lifestyle is about where you can say like, I'm gonna work in this time zone from this location, but I'm gonna do deep work and this is how my, my schedule's gonna be set up at least for this period of time, whether it's one week or one month. And then you, you know, just work on that project, get those things done.  

Kristin:    00:45:06    Then when you're off, you're clocked out. Yeah. And you're like having fun. You're out in the water, you're dancing salsa <laugh>, you're at your Spanish language lesson, like, and you're focused and present on that task. So that is a great productivity and remote work tip for sure. And I, I do the same thing and I also like to, you know, sometimes dedicate the morning to a specific task. Like right now I'm working on my book on How to Become a Digital Nomad for two hours every, every morning. Love it from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM and it's gonna happen every single day until that book is done, <laugh>.   

Francis:    00:45:41    Hell yeah. That's great.  

Kristin:    00:45:42    And yeah, sometimes that takes a month project or that could be a three month project or something like that. But I also like to batch weekly and also batch, like at different times of the day, like when we schedule this podcast, it's like always the same time of day every week. So yeah, we're on the same, definitely the same token there.

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Kristin: What is something that you wish you knew before you became a full-time Digital nomad? What's something that you wish someone told you about the lifestyle?  

Francis:    00:46:43    I really wish someone told me that it wasn't just all laptops on the beach and dancing in the Alps, as you just said. I think there was, I definitely drank Kool-Aid and saw like the, the, the, what was it? It was like the, the vice documentary on Digital nomads when they were doing calls and the hammocks and things like that. I mean, it still work at the end of the day. And I think when I first started it was like, I was kind of shocked with how much work and how much pressure I was kind of dealing with, but it's like, you know, at the end of the day, you know, you're getting, people are are relying on you to deliver in some way. And I mean, it wasn't, I wouldn't say I had like a very rude awakening to that. Yeah, I think there's like a lot of romance that goes on with it and you know, that stuff does happen at the end of the day.  

Francis:    00:47:27    It's like you're, you know, you're working and kind of have to show up and like just be a pro sometimes. And you know, whether you're, you know, you run a drop shipping business or you're some type of consultant or you're a writer, you know, content needs, you know, still needs to be done. And I think that's one of the reasons why I'm such a productivity nerd and, you know, super into like my habits. It's because I use that as like my bunker because, you know, I, I can get easily distracted and end up like not being as productive, but yeah, I wish someone told me that. It's like, yeah, yeah, I wish that the documentary should probably few hours that people were like in their rooms working and you know, not just hanging out on the beach.  

Kristin:    00:48:07    I had quite a few reality TV producers come to me before about making shows about being in digital nomad, and I think when they realize like, a lot of it is just being on your laptop, they're like, well, <laugh>  

Francis:    00:48:20    Yeah. They're like, go, go dance. Like go, go go dance.   

Kristin:    00:48:22    Yeah. They wanna show, they wanna show like the real world side of it and that stuff all happens too, but it's just not 90% of the time. Like you're, it's like the 80/20 rule, like you're working a lot of the time unless you're, you know, living off investment income or something like that. But what fun is that <laugh>, we wanna have that too, but also we wanna have purpose. Let's keep the balance.

Francis:  Exactly.

Kristin:  But even still, like knowing now what, you know, I mean, can you ever see yourself going back to like a traditional lifestyle where you're working for somebody in an office or in a cubicle or something like that?  

Francis:    00:48:57    No, no, definitely not. Definitely not. I mean, I absolutely love what I do as a copywriter and email marketer, and I love the, um, yeah, just the lifestyle I live. I mean, knowing that, you know, even though I do wake up like super early to kind of do my whole habits thing is like, I don't really need to do that. You know, I, but I do love how I have my time and you know, I don't have to commute anywhere and I'm, you know, location independent and I can do my work from anywhere and I can make it as big of an impact as I want. You know, I'm not sure if I can like go into like an office anymore, you know, unless like somebody gave me like a, you know, a contract to play in the NBA or something and like that could be my office, but you know, I'm like, I'm like five five. So like I know that's never gonna happen, but, you know, something like that, something crazy, what could happen then? Yeah, for sure. But you know, right now I absolutely love what I do and I don't think I'll, I'll be going back anytime soon.  

Kristin:    00:49:54    I think once a nomad always a nomad or to some extent at least. And then is your girlfriend working remotely as well?  

Francis:    00:50:02    Yeah, so she's actually like my executive assistant. Um, you know, she, she was doing, uh, something similar in her office job and now she helps me out with, you know, a lot of my invoicing, a lot of managing with my team and speaking with, yeah, the people who sub-- work with me as subcontractors and you know, some of the pitches that I do and things like that. So she's helped me out a whole lot. So yeah, I mean that's another example of using the experience you had before and turning that into something to make you a digital nomad.  

Kristin:    00:50:35    Totally. That's awesome. And you guys met in Budapest?  

Francis:    00:50:38    Yeah. Yeah, we met in Budapest and yeah, we had kind of just like met her on the street. I just thought that she looked pretty and I was like, Hey there.  

Kristin:    00:50:48    Oh my God,  

Francis:    00:50:48    I thought, I thought you looked really nice--

Kristin:    00:50:49    Old fashioned way.  

Francis:    00:50:50    Yeah, the old fashioned way. The old fashioned, I guess so. I, I think that's the old fashioned way I like to think. 

Kristin:    00:50:55     And now you ended up with a girlfriend, a travel buddy, and like a right hand woman who's helping you with your online business. This is a, a triple threat.  

Francis:    00:51:04    I know it's a triple threat right there. And know, I think she's probably, I think she's smiling right now, <laugh>. She might be listening to music over there, but yeah, she's laughing now, but yeah, that's how it is.  

Kristin:    00:51:14    <laugh>. That's great. And then I wanna get just a couple travel tips from you, but do you have any temptation now to like go back to your kind of old ways, especially with the addiction side, and do you have any advice for somebody who might be struggling with that background? Um, and they wanna avoid temptation and things like that when they're traveling.  

Francis:    00:51:36    Yeah, and I mean, I don't, I don't have any like real temptation to go back? I mean, I think there's this, like, I think there's a whole phrase of like, you know, slaying the dragon and, and things like that. I mean, I know some people they kind of hear my story and then they hear that it went clean and then they say, oh, but you drink. And you know, for me, I don't drink a lot, but now I do enjoy the occasional beer here and there. But it's one of those things in which I, I made a personal choice. Like, I don't even want like the, the whole thing of like, me not being, you know, I can't enjoy a beer. I don't want that to be like a hindrance or anything. So I wanted to like fully go through that, you know, fully get over it.  

Francis:    00:52:14    And now it's like I, I barely drink and I definitely don't have any temptation to, to go back to that. And yeah, I mean, just for, you know, advice to anyone, you know, I think this advice kind of applies to not just getting over addiction or it goes to, you know, even your journey to being, you know, badass digital nomad is, you know, just taking things day by day and you don't have to be perfect for, you know, the goal doesn't have to be to, to make it happen in three months, six months, nine months to, you know, next week. It's just do what you can do today. Whether that's trying to be sober or you know, if you're trying to lose weight to stay away from those cupcakes like me, that's my whole thing now is just like, take a day by day. Yeah. Find your support system because it's the people who you surround yourself with is so important. So yeah, I think there's be my two little, two little tips of, uh, advice there. It's just to take it day by day and find the, find the right people to surround yourself with. 

Kristin:    00:53:12     That is really great advice. And you can surround yourselves with more badass digital nomads in my Facebook group. Are you in my group?  

Francis:    00:53:21    Yeah, I am. I am.

Kristin:    00:53:22    I thought I was like, you looked familiar before <laugh>. 

Francis:    00:53:25    Yeah.  I was like, I think -- 

Kristin:    00:53:26    I know, I know this photo. I know this name.   

Francis:    00:53:28    Yeah. I was like, I'm pretty sure I tagged you and I was trying to like bother you at one point or something or like, I don't know. I think I like meant, I think I like said something. I liked your Lisbon video from like a year and a half ago or something and you were like, you liked it, the comment.

Francis:    00:53:41    And I was like, oh my God, that's, I can't believe it. She did that.  

Kristin:    00:53:44    So, oh, I like, I like and or respond to every single comment on every platform, but sometimes the Facebook ones they delete after they get pushed down too far.

Facebook:  Oh no.

Kristin:  Or, yeah, so I actually have to go through the group like post by post and just make sure I didn't miss anything because

Francis:  Wow.

Kristin:  Yeah. And so if, if you're listening to this and I haven't liked your, uh, comment or responded on YouTube or Facebook or Instagram, it might be like a month from now, but I will <laugh> Yeah. I will eventually see it <laugh> and uh, if it like too much time goes by just tag me again because that means that it just got deleted. They automatically delete after a week anyway, so I have to always go back. Yeah. It's like that's the whole reason I made the group is to connect with human beings like you. And there are thousands more people with real stories just like yours in the group. So I'm like making my ways to getting to know everybody one by one at some point hopefully. Okay. Well let's get into like a quick lightning round and then I'll let you go. What is your favorite place you've traveled for leisure and relaxation and also for work?  

Francis:    00:54:59    I would say roads, Greece. I think I had good wifi there and it was absolutely, it was absolutely gorgeous.  

Kristin:    00:55:04    Oh, so that would be for both like leisure and work?  

Francis:    00:55:07    Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think so because I actually, I remember getting like a good amount done and then, but it, it was, it was, it was so chill. I remember, I remember just being very relaxed there and I was able to get a lot done and the plus, you know, the place I was staying in had pretty good wifi and uh, yeah, like I said, it was absolutely gorgeous. So definitely for both. 

Kristin:    00:55:25    Yeah. Greek islands plus one. We've already talked about productivity quite a bit, but what is one like either productivity or remote work tool or app that you can't live without?  

Francis:    00:55:37    I know this sounds like kind of like, of course Francis, but like just a calendar. I mean I, I like haven't been the most organized person up until maybe three weeks ago. And the fact that I have a calendar now, it's been like amazing. But yeah, like using a calendar to organize due dates and you know, when you have calls and things like that, it's amazing. Yeah, I just wake up, I see what I have going on. It's like bam. I mean at first it was just all in my head, which I know people think is like, dude, you're such an idiot. You just kind <laugh>. You just try to remembered everything. I'm like, yeah, for sure. And um, but yeah, a calendar's so simple.  

Kristin:    00:56:10    I know. And now that I have a home base for a couple months, I actually just bought a calendar to put on the wall because I'm so used to having everything digital or in like a journal or a notebook that I'm traveling with and I'm like, oh I can actually have an analog paper calendar that goes on the wall and even I have a dry, dry erase board calendar that I have too.  

Francis:    00:56:31    Oh, that's what I need for sure. Yeah, for sure.

Kristin:    00:56:33     We need to like have some kind of foldable dry erase board that you can like travel around with that's not really heavy and you can just open it up, make like a, a big like put it on your table <laugh>. Oh yeah, no digital nomad wishlist.  

Francis:    00:56:47    I'm sure that's happening. I'm sure like that's gonna come out with the next iOS or or something. Hook something up.  

Kristin:    00:56:52    Okay. And what about travel? Are there any travel apps that you use frequently or flight booking, something like that?  

Francis:    00:57:00    I mean, to be honest, I don't think I do actually. I'm a pretty basic traveler and I'm pretty like I'm not a uh, I'm not a picky person. I'm not sure if it's just 'cause I'm on the spot, but I feel like there's something, unfortunately I can't remember any of it right now, so I think it's--  

Kristin:    00:57:16    Your, your girlfriend does all the travel booking? 

Francis:    00:57:19    Yeah,  Well she actually does do all the travel bookings so it's <laugh>. It's one of those things that she probably, she should be your next guest or something. But yeah.  

Kristin:    00:57:25    <laugh> Are you staying in an Airbnb  

Francis:    00:57:28    Right now? Yeah, this is an Airbnb right now. It's actually pretty cool 'cause it's like, it feels like an apartment but it's deafen like a hotel. Yeah, it's very homey. Which I love.  

Kristin:    00:57:38    How much is your rental per month?  

Francis:    00:57:39    It's all around 800 I think. I think we lucked out. So nice. It's a pretty nice place.  

Kristin:    00:57:44    Fully furnished.  

Francis:    00:57:45    Oh, fully furnished. All that stuff. Wifi is like, okay. I mean that was like the biggest drop but we just had like a wifi issue like 20 minutes ago, so gonna write a review,  

Kristin:    00:57:55    We're not on video anymore people.  

Francis:    00:57:58    <laugh> 

Kristin:    00:57:58    I've been there, lived in Mexico for at least a couple years, probably added up together

Francis:  For sure.

Kristin:  Um, what is a site that you would recommend to see in Budapest?  

Francis:    00:58:11    Oh, the site. Oh, I would definitely say the Citadel because it's just like a nice walk to go up there. It's pretty stre. It can be pretty strenuous. Yeah. If you go up there and you bring a backpack of food, you know, have a little picnic go off  a bench.

Kristin:    00:58:25    Oh I've been there.

Francis:    00:58:26    Yeah. And it's pretty cool And sometimes, sometimes if you're in the know, they have like these really fun techno shows over there.

Kristin:  Whoa.

Francis:  So you can probably see, you know, one of the best sites in Budapest while also yeah. You know, dancing at Galler Hills. So yeah, definitely  

Kristin:    00:58:41     You just gave me something to add to my vision board to DJ on top of the Citadel <laugh>. Oh yeah, Budapest.  

Francis:    00:58:49    I'm gonna be there. I'll be right in front of you dancing, so.  

Kristin:    00:58:51    Heck yes. That's awesome. What is a cafe or restaurant in Budapest that you can recommend?  

Francis:    00:58:58    I would say there's one called uh, Ket Szerecsen, which I think <laugh>, I think it means two spices. Probably can't, I probably can't spell that, but it's called Ket Szerecsen. And it's a really, really nice restaurant in Budapest. It has really good blend of Hungarian food. Yeah. Other cuisines. But for me, every time I go there it's like I just can't have a bad meal and they're just really great. I mean it's so nice to go there every time.

Kristin:    00:59:25     Cool. We're gonna find that. And are there any coworking spaces in Budapest that you have gone to?  

Francis:    00:59:32    Yeah, I would suggest going to Rack Parts. That's a very popular one that they have a standing desk I remember that was like the only place in Budapest that has a standing desk. And I was like, oh my God, this is like amazing. But uh, yeah, I mean Budapest is like a very big place for digital nomads. I mean there's cafes that are just packed with people with their laptops. Really? Any cafe with decent wifi, there's going to be like at least like a dozen digital nomads there.  

Kristin:    00:59:58     Nice. Yeah. Actually my hack for standing desks is to stand at bars. I obviously can't travel with my standing desk, but I love standing while working. So now when I go to coworking spaces I just look for like the bar or even sometimes they have like a higher table or something by the printer or something like that. Like a countertop. Yeah. And I just set up there and that, that works the same way.  

Francis:    01:00:24   That's smart. That's a good hack.  

Kristin:    01:00:25    <laugh>. And then I saw on your, uh, I think it was like your LinkedIn or some one of your bios that you like green juice and croissants. Oh yeah. So I was wondering if there was some food like item that you think everybody should try in Hungary?  

Francis:    01:00:38    I would say Chicken Paprikash. That's just like very Hungarian. I, I feel like everyone also has their own recipe too, which is always like kind of fun being from the south, you know, the American south. It's like people have like their different kind of recipes for fried chicken or gumbo and jumbo and things like that. And I kind of feel like it's the same with Chicken Paprikash. And yeah, I think definitely try that in return. In regards to like pastries, I mean I like <inaudible>, which is like this kind of, I don't know, like a yummy sweet ball, like goodness <laugh>. Um, yeah, I would definitely try, I would definitely suggest anyone to try that too.  

Kristin:    01:01:13    Yeah. Um, I actually, my grandfather's Hungarian and my great-grandmother has an amazing chicken papa Prash recipe that I have been making for like, I don't know, my whole adult life. Love it. Ever since I could cook. And that's been passed down through the family, so I definitely recommend that it's one of my favorite dishes. And for me, like poppy seed cakes are pretty traditional. Anything with poppy seeds, if you go to hungry you gotta try that. Oh, for sure. Um, poppy seed cookies, poppy seed, like pastries, it's in everything. Poppy seed gelato. Have you had that? 

Francis:    01:01:48    Yeah,  I've had that. I mean, Hungarians love. That's interesting. Yeah, it's it's really interesting. I wasn't even a big fan of Poppy Seed to be. Yeah. I mean like I remember one time there was like pop, I found like poppy seed in like my pillow and I was like, what's going on here? Like I feel like we just, we're just having way too much right now. <laugh>, we gotta stop.  

Kristin:    01:02:04    I draw the line at Poppy Seed in my vest. <laugh>. Yeah.  

Francis:    01:02:07    I was like, what's going? I was like, I think I just found Poppy seed in my head and shoulders shampoo. Like I don't think it's so wild what's going on?  

Kristin:    01:02:15    Oh my god. Well it's been great talking with you Francis. Where can people buy your book and connect with you?  

Francis:    01:02:20    Yeah, so you can connect with me at storiesandcopy.com. Uh, you can find my book on Kindle and it's on Amazon as well. It's called the Click Rate Code. Yeah, I'm sure you're sure we'll, we'll link it there, but if you join my email list actually then I'll send you a free copy of it, um, directly. So yeah, hop on my email list and learn about all things copywriting, marketing, freelancing, mindset, all that stuff. And yeah, that's how you can find me.  

Kristin:    01:02:48    Awesome. We're gonna link to all of that and I look forward to our in, in real life meeting at the top of the Citadel with some good techno music. And until then, take care. See you in the Badass Digital Nomads group and see all of the rest of you next week. Thanks for listening.  

Francis:    01:03:08    Thank you. Thank you. Have a good one.

Kristin:    01:03:09     Bye. Bye. Frances,  

Francis:    01:03:11    Ciao. 

Kristin:    01:03:17    Thank you so much for listening and remember to leave a review for the podcast wherever you listen and share this episode with someone you think it might help.  

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