How to Get Argentine Citizenship as a Foreigner with Will Newman

Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests.

Kristin:   You know, critics of remote work say that you need meetings and face-to-face interaction in order to get things done. But we all know that communication and community are two of the most important factors for success in a location independent lifestyle. So every time you listen to an episode of this or any podcast that you find value in, I challenge you to share the wealth. Take a moment to think of one person in your professional or personal network who might benefit from listening in. Then share it with them and tell them why. Doing this will help you absorb and apply the info that most resonated with you from the episode, putting it into practice in your own life while delivering value to someone you care about. And with that, let's get on with today's show.  

Podcast Interview:

Will:    00:01:16    So, I was afraid that would be one of the questions you'd ask <laugh>. Uh, 'cause at the moment I'm actually not working. I left a corporate job in September and I said that I was gonna take, uh, through the end of the year off. So the last couple months, Uhhuh, I've actually been just kind of floating back and forth between Miami, which is my other home in Bueno Aires. I renovated my apartment here and, um, I haven't lived full time down here for about five years. So this was, um, let's say a unnecessary step for me to be able to come back. And the plan is starting in January with a partner, um, starting, uh, let's just call it a distressed company advisory firm, where we go in somewhere that's, that I don't know, they've got problems with their executives or they are losing money and at risk of going bankrupt or, uh, they've got like cases of corporate theft or things like this. We go in a couple of months, change things around and um, and then leave the house in order and, and move on to the next things. So  

Kristin:    00:02:17    How did you end up coming here the first time? And how long ago was that? Like, what brought you here? What was the motivation?   

Will:    00:02:26    Well, doesn't, uh, isn't there a woman behind everything crazy a man does  

Kristin:    00:02:30    <laugh>. I'm pretty sure that it's everything behind every strong man. There's a stronger woman, basically. I think women do everything. No, just kidding.  

Will:    00:02:39    No. Um, so answering you seriously was, uh, a scenario where I kind of ended up here by chance after I finished college, um, I had been dating a Brazilian woman and had planned on spending the summer of graduation, um, in Brazil. And that, that didn't end up working out. Um, and I had changed my flight literally to come to Buenos Aires. There's a little bit of logic as to why I picked it more than anything, wanting to learn Spanish. And it was, um, always a city that attracted me ever since I was little. The, I dunno, the history and the kind of European Latin blend and yeah,  

Kristin:    00:03:17    Same.  

Will:    00:03:18    Um, that was in 2005, which was a very different time here in that, um, you know, internet wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now. Nobody had smartphones. Google Maps didn't even work in Argentina. Like, if anything, it had the provincial borders and that was about it. There  

Kristin:    00:03:36    Was no Tim Ferris, there were no iPhones.  

Will:    00:03:38    And I don't think, um, yeah, I don't think Google Maps even had provincial borders. Like you just put it on the, like political setting on Google Maps, just Argentina. Yeah. You know, and it's like half the size of the Continental 48, so it's a pretty big place.  

Kristin:    00:03:55    That's when I was living in Costa Rica and we had like 128 KB internet with a satellite. Yeah, exactly. So that was definitely, that was the beginnings of this movement that we're in right now. As far as like remote work or living abroad. Really.  

Will:    00:04:12    Well, I still get told by my friends here that I know the, the city better than some of them because I learned it walking. Yeah, me too. And way back when there was this little book called the <inaudible>, which, um, you can buy it at any newspaper stand. I don't know any, uh, sorry if it everyone anymore, but at the time you could buy it at, you know, every street corner. Now it would be kind of a fun mission to go on to try and find one because you don't need them. But, um, I'd even go out for dinner at night and make sure that I brought it because not even the cabs knew how to get to where we were going sometimes.  

Kristin:    00:04:46    How old were you then?  

Will:    00:04:47    21. Okay.  

Kristin:    00:04:50    Yeah, we were about at the same time. Like I just 21. You were coming here? I was going to Costa Rica. I was like 21, 22.  

Will:    00:04:57    Yeah. I came here for a couple of months, um, that summer. Uh, well winter here. And um, then went back to New York where I gone to school and did the kind of two year obligatory corporate job after college. And, um, yeah, Quentin bought a plane ticket to move back down here the same day.  

Kristin:    00:05:18    Oh my God. So when did you start living here? Full, I guess full time.  

Will:    00:05:24    2007.  

Kristin:    00:05:25    2007.  

Will:    00:05:26    March 3rd  

Kristin:    00:05:28    <laugh>. And then I know that you went back to Miami for a bit or back to Florida. So you've been back and forth, um, for the past 10 years, basically.  

Will:    00:05:37    So I was full-time 2007 to 2013. And then I went to Africa for a couple of years. Oh, right. And then I went to Miami. So I was abroad 10 years. 

Kristin:    00:05:48    And when, what, what made you keep coming back to Buenos Aires? Because you've been to Brazil, you've been to Africa, you've been to many countries, but what is it specifically about this city or this country that is so attractive? Not just to you, but to so many expats?  

Will:    00:06:04    It's like living in a mixture of a couple different European cities a couple decades ago. Um, and I don't wanna, that's where I'm gonna get in trouble saying that it's, you know,  

Kristin:    00:06:14    They don't wanna be compared to Europe.  

Will:    00:06:16    Well, no, I'm saying that it's like Italy 30 years ago, Uhhuh. Um, but a lot of Italians would agree with me and a lot of Argentines would agree with me. And I think that's actually a good thing,  

Kristin:    00:06:24    Not a bad thing. I think it's a good thing. That's how I say Eastern Europe is like western Europe, probably a long time ago. Yeah. It was in a good way as compliment.  

Will:    00:06:33    Um, and to be more substantive in my response, a lot of the things that I enjoy in life are at my fingertips here and, and affordable. Um, there's more theaters here than any city in the world. At least that was the case a couple years ago. I mean, more than New York, more than Paris, more than London. There's a, I don't know, four or 500 live theater performances every week. Um, you've got a lot of different, um, like great music and the food is actually getting far more international and far more diverse. When I was living here more than 10 years ago Yeah. Would kind of find there was a predictable menu at every place that you went to. And now that's a lot different. Um, I still wouldn't recommend this as a destination if you're a vegetarian. Right.  

Kristin:    00:07:20    <laugh>. But, um,  

Will:    00:07:21    But you could survive now. Before you had to just give up <laugh>. Now you're just kind of like, you know, you have to do some research, but you can get good food. Before it was like, just give up. Yeah. Be a vegetarian when you get back home. Totally. Just give up.  

Kristin:    00:07:33    Yeah. I've eaten so much beef here. It's ridiculous. And my vegetarian friends have told me actually that this is like the only place that they will eat meat <laugh>. So I think that's a compliment as well. Yeah. But I never thought I would get sick of eating steak, but it's kind of happening.  

Will:    00:07:47    You can only have so many filet mignons in a week. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:07:51    For $10. <laugh> <laugh>. I know that I've met some of your friends and I know that you've acclimated and integrated very well here. That's something that's always a challenge for foreigners and digital nomads alike. Do you think that people need to learn Spanish to be able to fit in here? Or can they get by with just speaking English?  

Will:    00:08:11    Well, short answer is yes. You have to learn Spanish. And I'm not saying that from a, you're not gonna be able to get from point A to point B. You're not gonna be able to order a restaurant, you're not gonna be able to understand the supermarket. No. You can survive. You can get by day by day, have only English speaking friends. Never go to any cultural events and never really understand the way that people think and speak. Um, but yeah, you can live here speaking just English. I know people that have been here for bordering 10 years and can't speak Spanish. Yeah. And it's just not the way that I would choose to live life. And it was one of the things that was actually very frustrating for me when I was living in, um, in Portuguese speaking Africa, that my Portuguese skills are not as strong as I wish they were. And I I just missed so much. Yeah. You know, even on like, I'm just the slow one at dinner. Yeah. Um, so like, you know, I've learned the local customs and humor and politics  

Kristin:    00:09:04    And you have the accent down. Yeah.  

Will:    00:09:06    It's pretty good.  

Kristin:    00:09:07    Argentine accent.  

Will:    00:09:08    Yeah. It's, it's a distinct form of speaking Spanish. And now that I live in Miami, I'm, I'm glad that I have the asset. Yeah. And I can understand everybody. Um, and everybody knows when you speak Spanish within like 10 words that you're speaking Argentine Spanish.  

Kristin:    00:09:24    Right. They've asked me why do I have such a weird accent? And I'm like, weird. What? Being different. Maybe it's a little bit greena. Maybe it's a little bit Costa Rican. Well, that's okay, I'll work on that. Yeah. <laugh>, on that note, at what point did you decide that you wanted to invest in getting permanent residency here and a path to citizenship?  

Will:    00:09:44    So it was a natural progression really. I first moved down here where, you know, I just had a tourist visa and I had to come in and out of the country every couple of months. And let's say that I'm one of the folks that plays by the rules and does actually make the incredibly inconvenient ferry trip to Uruguay every three months. Yeah. <laugh>, I'm totally kidding. It's an hour on a boat. Come on, don't be busy.  

Kristin:    00:10:07    Oh, have to go.  

Will:    00:10:08    You go there for lunch on a Saturday, once every three months, get your visa renewed and come back. There's no reason to be illegal. You're  

Kristin:    00:10:15    Late and you might wanna stay in Uruguay for a little while full. Just like  

Will:    00:10:18    Those people that oversay by like six months. I'm like, you're an asshole. Like just, yeah. Just, just play by the rules. <laugh>. No, that's an easy one. No, but I gotta work visa. Actually, the first year I was here, I worked, uh, sorry. The first year I was here, I learned the language and learned, well, I traveled all over the country and, and, and um, it was kind of like filling time as I was learning the language and looking for a job at the same time. First job here was with a big, big multinational. And that was somewhat of a means to an end because they were willing to sponsor my visa. Yeah. Um, which was super straightforward. And honestly, don't be afraid of ever getting a visa here because it's not a question of will you be approved? It's a question of doing what they ask the way they want it. And the answer is yes. So fill out the stupid form, get the apple deals, do all that crap. You'll get it.  

Kristin:    00:11:04    Just do the paperwork. Yeah. <laugh>. And how long did that whole 

process take?  

Will:    00:11:08    Process in it in and of itself isn't long because you, you hand the stuff in and you get an answer on the spot. Oh. It's a question of you've gotta go 6, 7, 8 times before you do everything correctly. Because every time you go, the requirements are a bit different. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:11:23    That tends to happen in Latin America. We are still in Latin America, even though it looks like Europe and parts of  

Will:    00:11:29    Places. But I don't wanna, I don't wanna be too critical. 'cause I know the process has gotten a lot better Okay. Since I went through it. But just an example, like to get my first ID document the appointment to turn in, the paperwork was given to me for nine months after I got my visa. It took so long to get the actual document. So imagine this a document with one year validity took 16 months to get released to me.  

Kristin:    00:11:57    Uh, so it was expired  

Will:    00:11:58    Already. So the document that I got from the immigration bureau, like the day they gave it to me, it was expired  

Kristin:    00:12:04    <laugh>. But you already had it, so you were good, right?  

Will:    00:12:07    No, I had to go back the next day to get it renewed. Because to pay the whatever fee that you had to pay to renew it, you could only pay between the hours of like, you know, whatever it was, but only in the morning. And you can only pick up the document in the afternoon. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:12:22    There's always a catch  

Will:    00:12:23    Chicken and an egg here. So I'm basically like, wait a minute, I gotta take another whole day off work because you took so long to do this that you gave me an expired document.  

Kristin:    00:12:36    So at what point you just now, so you had, um, a work visa and then residency and then at what point the  

Will:    00:12:44    Residency comes with the work visa?  

Kristin:    00:12:45    It comes with a work visa,  

Will:    00:12:47    But it's for a year. So when I was answering your question earlier, sorry if I got a little bit lost in the details of how the immigration bureau works, they give you the visa for one year when it's a work visa and the renovation is very straightforward, but again, you just have to do it. Yeah. And the third time you renew a work visa, uh, you get the choice of making it permanent. Okay. Uh, you don't have to, you can renew for a fourth year, a fifth year.  

Kristin:    00:13:19    And and why did you decide like, I wanna make this permanent and I wanna become a citizen of  

Will:    00:13:24    RRGs? Well, so at the time, citizenship wasn't in the cards uhhuh, but the permanent residence was a no brainer. It's like why be tied to a company and why have to work for somebody else and why have to have some other entity sign something for me to be able to stay in the country every year? Um, so, you know, I played by the, the rules and did the whole local worker thing and got paid in pesos and lived, uh, as if I was just another person in Argentina. And I really was, I mean, um, you know, I remember like looking forward to June in December when that extra half salary comes in and stuff like that. They called the Aldo. Um,  

Kristin:    00:14:05    Bonus. Do you think that having a second passport is a major asset for people in 2018 and beyond? Um, or did you just do it because it was the natural progression? Were there any reasons?  

Will:    00:14:18    So there was a conscious decision made. Um, so I got my permanent residence in 2010, I think. And I didn't decide to start the citizen citizenship track until late 2015. And from the day that I started the process to the day that I had the passport in hand was about two and a half years. The process can be assured as like eight. And mine was extremely long at like 25, 26 months.  

Kristin:    00:14:46    So you're Argentine citizen, you're basically locked in. Um, how, how often do you see yourself, like what percentage of time do you see yourself living here versus in other countries? Is this your home base?  

Will:    00:14:58    2019? I see this being somewhere around a third to a half, but not crossing that half because, um, crossing a half would make me a tax resident. Ah. And then everything I make globally would be taxed here as  

Kristin:    00:15:15    Well as the us  

Will:    00:15:16    Well, the US is a given. I'm a US citizen, you know, us in Irea, we're in a very illustrious club. So I'm already given the, you know, I've worldwide US tax and I don't want to add the additional burden  

Kristin:    00:15:28    Of Argentina. You don't wanna pay worldwide tax in two countries. Why not <laugh>?  

Will:    00:15:32    So, yeah. And given that most of the, the work over the next few months at least is gonna be in Brazil that's not gonna be difficult for me to maintain kind of a US tax base and not gain a second one. Okay. And I live between, between three countries and just pay us tax  

Kristin:    00:15:50    For somebody to kind of emulate what you've done. Like having an apartment in one of the, the nice areas on the northern side, basically like a lot of the nice neighborhoods are next to each other, uh, Palermo, Oeta, ano these areas. So what, what would people have to spend if they wanna buy like a one or two bedroom apartment in a nice area here? And then what can they expect for their monthly cost of living?  

Will:    00:16:16    So, you know, obviously that depends. Yeah. Based on people's, um, personal budgets and, and, and things. So this is a larger property than most would want, I guess. I mean, it's three bedrooms, but you can get a nice one bedroom apartment in a modern building for less than 200,000. Okay. Um,  

Kristin:    00:16:39    And if you were to rent that apartment, however,  

Will:    00:16:41    However, the thing is you have to understand, especially as a foreigner, you're not going to finance it in any way that's a cash sale. Right. So unless you can secure financing from some other part of the world, um, you pay upfront for your, your, your, your home here and, and renting it out is very lucrative. This, this property I can rent out for a couple percentage of its value every month. Um, and then the thing with apartments in other parts of the city is you've gotta put a bit of money into them to be able to rent them out. You can do well on a small property here, provided that it's in a good location and you, you put a bit of of money into the, into the details, but Okay. I'm not crazy, but just nice sheets.  

Kristin:    00:17:25    So if Yeah. Well, nice sheets, nice  

Will:    00:17:27    Pillows, nice  

Kristin:    00:17:28    Towels. Let's say one of your friends or one of the viewers wants to come live in Bueno Aires. Where would you recommend for them to come to start out for let's say three months? Where should they live? Like, which neighborhoods? And then how much should they budget for a one bedroom to rent it out?  

Will:    00:17:43    Well, that's kind of a difficult question because you're not gonna get a good price for a short term Right. Furnished apartment. So, you know, you could pay many hundreds of dollars. Um, you can definitely get a nice place for less than a thousand but when you look at it from a peso perspective, which to get a local contract and, and have the pricing pesos, um, you gotta live here.  

Kristin:    00:18:07    Yeah. I I think most people starting out aren't going to be able to get a long-term like one year. So that's why Unfurnished place, but Well  

Will:    00:18:15    That I, I wanted to lead into that because the, like leased apartments here are significantly less expensive. Yeah. Like you get a three bedroom apartment for $800  

Kristin:    00:18:24    Unfurnished. Yeah.  

Will:    00:18:26    Yeah. But if you're gonna get that same apartment on like some website,  

Kristin:    00:18:31    It's gonna cost 2 2500 times more. Three times more. Yeah. But  

Will:    00:18:35    Studio furnished, one bedroom furnished, definitely less than a thousand bucks.  

Kristin:    00:18:39    Cool. And which neighborhoods do you think would be,  

Will:    00:18:42    I mean, the short answer is Palermo. Just keep it easy.  

Kristin:    00:18:44    Yeah.  

Will:    00:18:45    It's big. It's got a lot of other people that are from all over the world. It's got a lot of like coffee shops and coworking spaces and places to go out and places to drink and places to eat and  it's, um, accessible to public transportation. And I mean, you could get lost in Palermo for a year.  

Kristin:    00:19:03    Yeah. <laugh>. That's true. What is like a day in the life, like for you if you're, um, working and going out with friends? Well,  

Will:    00:19:12    For a long time I didn't understand how people here could go out as late as they do. And I think it's just as  

Kristin:    00:19:16    Being 7:00 AM or 8:00 AM  

Will:    00:19:18    I I just think it's simple as, uh, they sleep less. Um, <laugh>, they also drink less.  

Kristin:    00:19:25    They drink less. Yeah.  

Will:    00:19:26    They're out all night and have a, a couple beers, not 10. Okay. You know, you're out all night in the UK and you don't remember how you got home. <laugh>, you're out all night here and you know, you, you might actually be relatively sober by the time you go to bed after breakfast.  

Kristin:    00:19:42    <laugh>, <laugh>. So you have dinner at 11 o'clock or  

Will:    00:19:46    Whatever. Yeah. On, on the weekends. It could be 11 or later. Um, but let's say pace of life here is very dependent on the type of work that you do and your personal kind of logistics situation. Like when I used to work here in an office and had a 45 minute commute right there and back, you know, that it's just like anywhere in the world. Um, but then for a while I was working at a startup in Palermo that had an office four blocks from my apartment. And, you know, I could get out of bed 10 minutes before work and be on time. So it's, um,  

Kristin:    00:20:21    You know, it depends for somebody who's working from home. Let's say. Like if you're working from your laptop and you're going to a coworking space, lot of drinks after work.  

Will:    00:20:29    So it depends a little bit on the network that you, that you develop. Because one thing that Argentines are, is very kind of sociable and friendly. Like they're always doing something. I mean, today is Christmas Eve. Yeah. And I've got like five people that have wanted to adopt me for dinner tonight because it's such a, a big like family. They call it <inaudible>. The 24th year is more important than the 25th Uhhuh. And, um, it's almost kind of like I have too many invitations to accept any of them. Awesome.  

Kristin:    00:20:58    <laugh>,  

Will:    00:20:58    <laugh> a real friendship here. It takes a long time to develop and it's not a given, but when you have an Argentine friend, like for real, it's, it's, it's for real and it's forever.  

Kristin:    00:21:10    Boom. Uh, so if somebody's coming and they can only come here for a few months, what? October,  

Will:    00:21:17    November.  

Kristin:    00:21:17    October, November. Okay. Best weather. Best weather. And I know you're a wine person. So maybe you're partial to like Mendoza, but what are a couple other parts of Argentina that you would recommend that they don't leave without seeing  

Will:    00:21:31    Mendoza? You need to give it a couple days. Um, isu, uh, the waterfalls up in the north. Okay. If you haven't already been to Victoria Falls. Okay. And then depending on the time of the year, Patagonia, but Patagonia is a big place. So like the very far south, the glaciers and ate and, and and <inaudible>. Um, you're definitely gonna wanna go in the warmer months. I don't even know if they're open in the winter actually. And then Usua, which is the very end of the world. And I would recommend going both during summer and winter  

Kristin:    00:22:01    To see the contrast.  

Will:    00:22:03    Well go in, go in winter and you can ski and it's super easy to do and it's like 10 minutes from town. It's a lot less of an impact ski than going to Barte. You know, it's not as crowded and it's not as much of a scene. Um, and it's literally like 10 minutes from the city where from Barte it's like 45 to an hour and then go again in summer. 'cause it's light out until basically midnight. Yeah. And, um, amazing food. And you can go see, uh, penguins with their recently born chicks. Oh. So it's super beautiful, cute. And, and eat big, huge crabs.  

Kristin:    00:22:38    Oh my God. I'm so sad. I have to leave in like 10 minutes.  

Will:    00:22:41    No, I've been, I've been to <inaudible> twice and once in winter. Once in summer. And I highly recommend going there and, um, cool. It's accessible from here because you can take a flight. 'cause otherwise it'd be like a 50 hour drive, maybe more.  

Kristin:    00:22:55    Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing your, your wisdom of 10 plus years of living in Argentina with us. Thanks for listening. Remember to leave a review and share this episode with someone in your network. And if you want more tips and advice on working remotely, make sure to sign up for my insider list at TravelingwithKristin.com/subscribe, where you can find links to download free resources like My Digital Nomads Starter guide. Of course. Also subscribe to youtube.com/digitalnomad so you don't miss any of our weekly videos, digital Nomad News or Live Streams. See you there.