From Virtual Assistant to Founding the Biggest Online Digital Nomad Community in the World

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Kristin:    00:00:30    And then this Facebook Group grew really fast because that was like, as you said, the, you know, the first Facebook Group for digital nomads and it grew super fast to up to 5,000 people. So then I was like, really looking like there, I was like, okay, I'm onto something here now, like there's a lot of interest, I just need to figure out what I'm gonna do. And then I ended up organizing a cruise for these people.  

Kristin:    00:01:06    Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development and business advice from our guests. 

Kristin: Today's episode is sponsored by me. Did you know you can now shop my favorite remote work tools, video production equipment, and travel accessories directly from your Amazon account? It's true. Just go to travelingwithKristin.com/amazon to check out all the products I use and love.  

Johannes:    00:01:51    So for this episode with Johannes, I wanna get more in depth and behind the scenes on a couple of topics because some really good friends of mine, Matt Bowles from the Maverick Show, has done a really great interview with Johannes on kind of his personal background. And then Johannes recently spoke at the Nomad Summit in Chiang Mai. And there's an awesome talk and a video on YouTube that you guys can check out that I will link to in the show notes. And in this episode I wanna talk about a few different angles about the Nomad cruise and where you can go and the types of experiences that you can have. And also more about Johannes personal life and journey because he has so much advice. He's had so many different types of jobs and Johannes and I are both OG digital nomads who started living abroad and working remotely before we knew what digital nomads were. And I know that he has over 10, maybe 15 years of experience traveling. So Johannes doesn't even know this yet. But welcome to the show by the way, Johannes <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:03:05    Yeah, great to be here.  

Johannes:    00:03:07    Johannes, you don't know this, but we have a few, we have five primary things in common. Well, we probably have a lot more than that in common. Yeah. But yeah, both of us didn't know what Digital Nomads were when we started. We only were able to define it after we already kind of started doing it. Both you and I set up our first remote income streams without traveling. Both of us started businesses without websites <laugh>. And both of us started our primary businesses because we wanted more friends. We felt like we were lonely living this really cool lifestyle out in the world, and we wanted to bring more people into it. And then also, we both stumbled upon the Four-Hour Work Week book in 2007 when we were already living abroad and just like opened our mind to really the possibility that other people were doing it. And now fast forward to 2019, 2020, things have come full circle and we both have home bases, even though we still love to travel <laugh>. So did you know any of that? Did you know that we had that in common?  

Kristin:    00:04:21    No, I didn't know this. But uh, yeah, it, to me it makes a lot of sense and I, I think that this is a oftentimes the journey, right? Like that, that people do like, or that is like a, a good way, you know, to start first build the online business, like build your freedom, then go travel, then you realize, okay, actually it's nice to have a little bit more of a home as well. So it's a little bit like some of these things are part of the journey if you end up doing it successfully or, and you sometimes you get a little bit lucky, right?  

Johannes:    00:04:54    <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:04:55    And it, it definitely has been a much bigger problem to have friends or community back in that time when we were starting out as well. Right?  

Johannes:    00:05:04    Yeah. That, that's something that I think everybody will learn along the way is that if you try enough different things, you'll get lucky, but you'll make your own luck. And really everything that happens comes through the people that you meet along the way. So you really have to put yourself out there.  

Kristin:    00:05:23    Yeah, exactly.  

Johannes:    00:05:25    So let's just go back a little bit to the beginning for a kind of a summary because you are from Germany, but your stories from the digital nomad lifestyle start back when you were living in Cape Town. So can you just give us some background on how you ended up getting from Germany to Cape Town in the early two thousands and what were you doing there? Because this was definitely pre Four-Hour Work Week.  

Kristin:    00:05:54    Exactly. So when I grew up, I grew up in a small town and my parents would always take me to Norway. So I, I became like quite curious to see other things because I was like, it's nice to go to Norway, but I wanted to really see the world. So as soon as I finished school or even before that, like I started to travel a little bit more with my friends and then I ended up being in Australia for one year doing the working holidays there. And on these working holidays, someone told me about Cape Town because I was talking, you know, like I love Sydney and this is like my favorite place. And there was a guy who gave me a lift and he mentioned Cape Town to me. And so when I was looking for options to study abroad, I had Australia and Cape Town in my head and one guy who was working with me coming back to the circle, you know, when you meet other people, one guy by coincidence, I met him and he was actually, he just came back from Cape Town and he said like, you know, it's no problem to study there.  

Kristin:    00:06:54    I met a lot of people there and I was like, okay, cool, I'm gonna apply next day. I applied, I went to Cape Town and uh, I studied there and that's also where like basically I uh, got engaged there. I met a South African girl and yeah, so I ended up living in Cape Town and it's very hard to make money in Cape Town. So I stumbled across the Four-Hour Work Week and decided to try my luck online.  

Johannes:    00:07:22    And what were you doing to support yourself then? Because I didn't even know that, but we have, another thing in common is that both of us studied abroad or did like a work study in Australia, I also did in Costa Rica. And then like many people when they go abroad for the first time, they wanna figure out how can I stay? How can I work and make money and like live like an expat? So for me that path was real estate. How did you support yourself out of college? Living in Cape Town,  

Kristin:    00:07:54    When you go study abroad, you can get some funds, you know, that support you a little bit from the government. Like if you apply for it for like a semester abroad. So I wasn't working in Cape Town, but I had these funds a thousand euros a month for that time. From  

Johannes:    00:08:07    Germany?  

Kristin:    00:08:07    Germany, yes. Nice. And then later on, yeah, so later on I stayed there and I was actually, first I was helping out my, my ex. She was a fashion designer in Cape Town, so we were kind of working together, which didn't really work out. And then I worked in safaris in tourism and I was working there. So I, I took on a job there and because I always wanted to do something in tourism and travel, I was super excited about it. And so, you know, I was working in safaris, but I learned very quickly, you know, like if you take a job in South Africa, you're gonna take like 10 years until you make any good money. And so I was looking for ways to make my own money and that's when I stumbled across the Four-Hour Work Week.  

Johannes:    00:08:53    Yeah. Because that's basically what I had to do in Costa Rica. If I wanted to get a job in Costa Rica, I was gonna be making $2 an hour and I just, you know, I couldn't really live off of that or I didn't want to. Mm-Hmm. And so the only way at the time for expats to make a comparable living that they're, they're used to in their, their home country is to start their own businesses. But usually it's like a location dependent business at first, which for me was real estate, you know, for you was working in the safari and doing things like that. And for people like Johnny Fd, it was teaching scuba lessons or doing scuba diving  

Kristin:    00:09:34    Or people learn, teach English in abroad, right. Korea or something there like these or people become kite serving instructors or ski instructors or this. All these different ways, right?  

Johannes:    00:09:47    Yeah. And that's a great way to start out because you know, you, you're still getting work experience and you're working pretty hard, but then you also get to have fun and hmm. And I also did that teaching surf lessons and working at restaurants in a sushi bar and I was just hustling. But this was, you know, before the internet was good enough to even support and online business. So I would love to hear,  

Kristin:    00:10:13    Actually one thing I didn't mention here and is that I, so I did the working holidays in Australia and I think that this is something really like where a lot of nationalities might look into because you can get these visas that would allow, allow you to work in Australia. And I was working in a German bar, but I also worked on a pearl boat and I took on some really interesting jobs as well. And it was a great way for me, you know, to travel to live abroad, to, to learn like, hey, it's actually no problem to be away for from home for a little bit longer. And, um, this is a really a great way to start out like looking into these working holiday visas and that could also be a nice way to build up some online income when you are not so professional yet, but you also want, already want to, you know, go abroad.  

Johannes:    00:11:00    Yeah, I think that's a great strategy because you can get some work experience, make some money, but not be in a really high stress, high pressure job or doing knowledge work so you have that extra energy that you can apply to building your side hustle Mm-Hmm. While you're working on this boat or, or teaching English or waiting tables or something like that. So I, I definitely condone that. That's a great way for people to get started. Which leads me to my next question. I heard you talking about this in your Nomad Summit talk and it really resonated with me because there's so much chatter on the internet and in books about how to work in your passion and how to maybe quit your job to do something that you love more and how to make passive income online and all of these different hacks. And I really love how your experience unfolded as an example of how that's not necessarily true because you've had all of these random jobs in the same way that I have with like life guarding and surf lessons and all these random things that had apparently nothing to do what I'm doing now.  

Johannes:    00:12:16    But probably if we hadn't have had all of those different jobs, we wouldn't be where we are today. And so can you talk a little bit about how you started your first online job working as a VA and how it doesn't matter if you, even if you had all of these plans to do the Four-Hour Work Week in the future, you were like, let me just start here because I can get paid $8 an hour and I'll get paid to learn and get some experience and then I'll build on that and kind of having the patience to get to maybe five or 10 years later to work on your passion project.  

Kristin:    00:12:53    Yeah, so basically I was in the position where I was making no money at all at this tourism company, right? So I made like $700 a month and I also knew I'm just doing this to figure out how the tourism industry works. And that's oftentimes what people like misunderstand. They think like, you know, I will just learn how to do, you know, like conversion optimization or whatever, or like I will just start an online business. But isn't it much smarter to work for someone who's really good in running an online business and learning from them and they will give you free advice, you learn all these things, how to run a remote company or whatever and you actually get paid for it. Yeah. So for me it was just I need to, yeah, I need to make money and I just need to make more money than I'm doing it at this tourism job, right?  

Kristin:    00:13:44    Tourism. And so it was okay for me to work for $8 an hour because I was just like, okay, well I'll just raise it very soon, as soon as I can. And so I got paid to install the first Wordpress website and then I got super interested in building websites and before that I wasn't even, you know, considering to learn these things. And oftentimes it's like that you take on a skill or you learn something and only then you learn like, oh this is actually really interesting so I want to learn more about online marketing. Or like, you find your way, you know, like very fast. I found out that I really hate copywriting but I really love, you know, like paid advertising and I'll get super excited about doing this and building some websites and stuff.  

Johannes:    00:14:29    Yeah. Because you don't know what you don't know. And so it's easy to look at people who might be on Instagram making six or seven figures a year doing this stuff, but then you don't see what happened before. And you clearly started as a unemployed college student or recent college grad basically living on government welfare. And then now you probably have learned hundreds of different online business skills that 10 or 12 years later are turning into this synergy that has helped you to launch different types of businesses but you would never get to point B if you didn't start at point A and kind of go through that entire journey. So I think that that's so important for people to take away from your experience because you went from working at the tourism board to learning how to build Wordpress sites and learning about AdWords and Facebook ads and SEO and all of these different things that uh, if you hadn't have learned that you probably wouldn't have been able to start the Nomad cruise. No. Or, or do some of the projects you're doing now.  

Kristin:    00:15:41    Pretty much everything that I'm doing even these days is based on a lot of skills that I even learned, you know, when I was like super young. So now we are doing like a lot of automation or we are doing like some, you know, I understand about SEOI understand about a lot of things that I just was learning. Maybe I didn't even apply it, but I was just curious, you know, to find out. And so I was like just diving into a lot of different things and the, the reality is like sometimes you can get lucky with some kind of business. Let's say you find the right product, you market it at a time, you know when no one else is doing this and then you are like a promoter. But as soon as some other people step into the same business that you are doing who really know what, you know how this works and how to build a business, you are basically out of business and oftentimes you are out of business because you just don't have the skills, right? You don't have the enough skills to be able to, you know, make something big and sometimes you're lucky and so something takes off really fast. But at the end of the day, you either need to have the skills or you need to have the money to pay people like who have the skills and who are usually not very cheap  

Johannes:    00:16:56    <laugh>. Yeah, exactly. I found myself in similar positions throughout the years where I'm like, okay, I really need help with this, but I have a limited budget on how to do it. And you know, that's when you need to bootstrap or figure it out yourself. But then once you do have some disposable income, you can say, you know what? I don't need to learn all of these Wordpress plugins. I'll just hire somebody <laugh> to do it for me. Yeah. But then, but you need to know what you need to even delegate. Like there's a time where you don't even know who you need to hire 'cause you don't know what you need to do  

Kristin:    00:17:29    Exactly. And you don't know what you need to do. And you also need to learn how to hire and how to work with different people. And this is like something for example, that I'm still learning right now, like building a team and being like a leader and, and this leadership, it's super damn complicated. Like it's not, you know, then you can run the most unefficient business if you don't really know how it works and just spend a lot of money. So you kind of need to learn all your lessons in these things as well unless you are super lucky and you just pick the right person who will just do everything magically for you. But you know, you will basically stumble across a lot of different, um, problems. And the best way is to just, you know, learn one skill, then learn another one, be open for it and try to just consistently, you know, maybe increase your rate or how much you are making and then you are on a good path. Like, but it takes just some action and like getting paid to learn. And and after a while all these coincidences that happen in your life, they kind of come together and make you start the business that that you're doing. Or maybe you just take it easy, but it's good to learn a lot.  

Johannes:    00:18:41    Exactly guys, don't be afraid to take a job that you feel like is below your potential because you're always going to learn something and you're gonna make an hourly rate while you're learning versus having to put all of the pressure on yourself to work on your side hustle or build skills in the middle of the night like Gary V style from 1:00 AM to 3:00 AM or whatever, you know, you can just take that job. Brie, uh, who was on our show a couple weeks ago from FlexJobs, she's been working at FlexJobs for 10 years, but she started doing a similar like virtual assistant type of job in an industry or for a company that she wasn't very familiar with and it wasn't her passion, but she did that for a year and then she used that to leapfrog to the next job. So just start somewhere <laugh>. And I think Johannes and I, we've both seen a lot of new digital nomads. So how many people are alumni now of the Nomad Cruise? How many people are in your community?  

Kristin:    00:19:45    So it's uh, almost 1,500 people  

Johannes:    00:19:48    There. So you have one 1,500 people who have been on Nomad cruises, which we're gonna talk about a little bit later. And then you also have the first and one of the biggest Facebook communities for digital nomads with almost 50,000 people. Now after having built these communities over the past years, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see aspiring digital nomads and remote workers making and then also people who have made that transition but are in like their first or second year of the lifestyle and what kind of advice would you have for people?  

Kristin:    00:20:32    So I think that it can be super exciting for people, you know, to start this lifestyle and like now you live in Costa Rica or you live in, in beautiful places around the world and either can be super lonely. So you really need to know where you go and, and how you connect with people and build up these friendships because while happiness is only real when shared, right? So if you end up being going by yourself to some, some country where you don't really know anyone and you don't know really how to get started there, it can be quite frustrating. So that's why I think it's like really important to build up some kind of community like coming on the cruise, but you know, or Bali or go to Lisbon. Like there's a lot of ways how where you can meet people who are doing this already, but then there's another trap and that is usually like when you go to these places and you are not really so set with all your business and whatsoever, you will be inspired with so many different ideas and things that you can do.  

Kristin:    00:21:30    And um, you will also have a lot of distractions. So let's say in the past you would spend sometimes the evening and just learning some new things and now you are like either working or you are like hanging out with all these people. So what I often see is that people become quite unproductive on, on that thing and they need to be aware of this, right? Like, so first you're a little bit lonely and then if you have a lot of friends, it's sometimes a little bit hard to have the discipline to work and like to evolve and you know, actually not just maintain but you know, grow your business. So what is really, really important there I think is to, you know, keep some, some discipline, have some working hours with that you really dedicate and be very clear on where you want to go or give yourself like a year, you know, to get inspired, just talk to a lot of people and then make a decision and and just move forward.  

Johannes:    00:22:23    Yeah, I think that's really good advice because going back to what I said at the beginning, how both of us started our first major online revenue sources when we weren't traveling, even though we were living in foreign countries, I think that was a really big key factor to our success that kind of gets glossed over, it kind of gets overlooked. So when I started my company Poker refugees, this relocation company for poker players, I just had an idea and I told people about it and they're like, yeah, I need help with that. And so I started building this business model based off of the experience I was having with the people that I was helping. Hmm. And that whole process started in April of 2011. I did not become fully nomadic where I was living out of a suitcase until January of 2013. So that was a year and a half that I just sat in Costa Rica working full-time <laugh> on my business and learning about what my clients needed until I had a set of procedures and systems in place that I could spend the full year of 2013 traveling around the world. And I know that you had a similar situation where you started with building this e-commerce site and then it was four years or something from the time you started with that until you had your first digital nomad meetup. So can you talk a little bit about what you were doing to build your business over that time and when you knew that you could be more mobile and start traveling?  

Kristin:    00:24:14    Okay, so basically what I happened is that first I was virtual assistant and then I was like starting a little online marketing agency and um, you know, I was helping different clients, but I I also really liked this idea of the Four-Hour Work Week, you know, that you have some kind of online business. And then I kind of remembered that my mom has got these cards that she was selling, like trying to sell in psychotherapy and stuff, but it didn't really work just like a little bit. She made like 20 sales a month or something. And so I helped her and this really, really took off. And basically while I did the right things without knowing it, I have to say yeah, at that time, you know, Google Edwards was, was very, very cheap and I just loved to play around with Google Edwards.  

Kristin:    00:25:02    So I, I spent one year, one campaign which made these cards like super famous and now there are like thousands of therapists in Germany who use them. So I got like very location independent and I got, you know, I had enough income to travel the world and work very, very little on maintaining this 'cause I teamed up with my mom and you know, like things were growing, but just a little bit. And, um, so I was doing this and then basically, so that was in 2010. So I traveled for like one and a half years, but then I realized like, okay, I'm getting a little bit lonely here, I want to meet more of these people. And then I wrote the ebook. So I, I was like, okay, and I don't like to just work on this one business. I want to have something, you know, that I'm a little bit more passionate about.  

Kristin:    00:25:50    But I had this, this business that I did with my mom in background, right? So then I wrote the ebook, then I got the idea, okay, I want to inspire more people to, you know, to travel the world and see different places. And so, uh, so I wrote an ebook, the Travel Guide for People who Work online. And I thought, you know, I can sell this online and I can get Rich <laugh> with this <laugh>. Then I, uh, then I promoted this on the, on the internet and it worked a little bit, but basically, yeah, then I still didn't have, you know, the knowledge that I have today. Like, if I would do something like this today, I would turn this into a massive business. But, um, I didn't, and I didn't even know how to run a blog or anything. So then I had to teach myself quite a bit of things. But I invited everyone who bought my little guide into a Facebook Group. And then this Facebook group grew really fast because that was like, as you said, the, you know, the first Facebook Group for digital nomads and it grew super fast to up to 5,000 people. So then I was like really looking like there was like, okay, I'm onto something here now, like there's a lot of interest, I just need to figure out what I'm gonna do. And then I ended up organizing a cruise for these people,  

Johannes:    00:27:07    <laugh>. And what kind of tips do you have or, or a piece of advice for people who look at all these things that you did and they're like, wow, I don't even know how to do that. I don't think I could do that. Or I don't know where to start. How were you able to face the fear and do it anyway each time you came up against a hurdle being new to an industry or learning a new technical skill or reaching out to strangers and saying, Hey, do you wanna, you know, meet up with me and Budapest, or do you wanna go on this cruise with me? How did you mentally just push past that block that so many people have where they're like, I see this lifestyle, I, I want to have it, but there's just this huge gap between where I am now listening to this podcast and this cubicle and where I see all of these people partying on a cruise ship learning skills from each other and like living it up. What can people do to kind of take that first step and to not care that they don't know what they're doing?  

Kristin:    00:28:19    So to be honest, I was just always a little bit naive and just curious <laugh>, and I was not scared, you know, like I was not. And also like for example, for building the communities, the thing is that I was never, like, I always used to be someone who would organize events and, and do some things. So I did this a long time before, it's not like something that was really new to me, right? So I say like, ah, you know, I just invited some people on a cruise ship. I was scared of the whole thing, but I was like, I grew up with this. Okay, so, but for people who are like just basically scared to get started or scared to do something, I mean, it's just like you evolve with each thing that you do. You don't need to start with the scariest thing.  

Kristin:    00:29:03    You just need to do something that's a little bit uncomfortable and then you do something then you just always do. So things that are just a little bit uncomfortable, right? And you will learn very quickly that this actually is cool because actually like this, you get into some flow. Like if you don't stress yourself too much, but you just do like small steps. Like I always say like small steps, right? People ask me a lot, like many times, you know, like when do you charter the full cruise ship or whatsoever, like I believe that maybe, you know, we, we could do this. Like at the moment we're just like a part of the cruise ship when we organize this cruise. So either I could spend a lot of time or get someone who's been doing this for a long time before, or I just take small steps and I just, you know, move towards this and one day I will feel comfortable that I can do this. And when I'm comfortable then we could do it. And if I don't feel like it or I don't want to do it, I don't do it. So I think it's always like pushing yourself, you know, just a little bit, just a little bit. And with each time you push yourself a little bit, you learn something new and things become easier for you to do as well.  

Johannes:    00:30:12    Completely. I think that hindsight is 2020 when it comes to this because, you know, you and I are, we're human and we have maybe fallen into this lifestyle a little bit earlier than some other people, but we've had to stumble just as many times and I have so many clear memories of even in, in 2017, I remember sitting in my living room in St. Petersburg, Florida, and I was about to do my first Twitch Dream <laugh>. So my first live stream on Twitch, and I was so terrified and I had committed to doing one live stream a day for 30 days or something like that. And I had already postponed it for six weeks. Like I kept postponing it every week 'cause I was afraid and then I did it and then I was like, well now I have to keep going. And then now I've, you know, done hundreds of live streams and it's just become a part of my regular life and my comfort zone and kind of my identity in a way. But I can still remember two and a half years ago sitting in my living room like hyperventilating that I was about to go live on Twitch for the first time. And yeah, looking back it, it, it seems so normal now for me to just hit go live and do it. Mm-Hmm. But yeah, you have to start somewhere.  

Kristin:    00:31:41    Yeah. Like for example, I don't like I have done today my second live stream ever. I don't like to do these things so much either, you know, like I've, I'm, I like to be more in the background, but it's also something, you know, like I know like, oh you know, I need to do this so I'm just doing it. And then when you do things a few times they just feel much easier. I think one thing that is really, really important in general as well is like that you really surround yourself with people who are doing things that you feel are a little bit com uncomfortable or like that can inspire you, you know, like, and where you can learn from and who in, in a similar situation. Because actually also I did a lot of the things I had to figure out by myself because I was living in Cape Town and trying all these online things, but there were no, there was like no one in Cape Town that I knew who was doing similar stuff. It would've been so much easier if I would've went to like some more meetups or whatsoever where I just meet people also like web designers or who are doing certain things and then they're like, oh, this is so easy I can tell you. So it's really, really important to surround yourself with these people.  

Johannes:    00:32:48    Yeah, definitely. Your environment is so important and you'll feel like you're climbing a little bit less deep of a learning curve if you are around other people who are like-minded in that way, or who are at least open-minded and positive about even internet strangers that they meet in a Facebook Group trying something new. Mm-Hmm. I mean there's that saying, they say, you know, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. But I saw on Twitter yesterday, somebody posted, if you are the smartest person in a room of five people leave. And it's not necessarily smartest, but like if you are the only positive person and your circle of trust and your sphere of influence in friends and family, then find new friends because it's gonna be a lot easier if you go on the Nomad cruise and you meet 500 people that are also in a similar place or have been in that place maybe a few years ago or maybe 10 years ago. And they're gonna be the ones to give you that encouragement to keep going. And sometimes that's all you need when your friends and your family and everybody else is trying to hold you back or put you down and not necessarily because they want you to fail, but because they wanna keep you safe and they wanna keep you around because they love you and they don't want you to go live in Timbuktu <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:34:18    Yes. And uh, but what I also believe is like, it's really important, even like you find new friends, but you also keep your friends unless they really, you know, they really talk you down or whatsoever. Like, I think it's really important that we also really, you are making like a lot of friends along the, you know, along this journey and they're your friends because at this moment in stage in the, in your life you have like similar interests and like, like a lot of people come and go and I feel like it depends a little bit on where you come from or how you grew up. Like for me, my friends are super important, but even though in the last three, four years I hardly had anything to do with them. But I still know, you know, like I can just come back there and I'm just like myself and they don't care about what I do online or what I do. Like they don't even know much about the cruise, you know? And, but it's cool like, like just keep them, but for inspiration and for these things you really need to look out for new people.  

Johannes:    00:35:17    Yeah, that's so funny you said that because next week I'm going to a podcast conference called podcast in Orlando and I'm staying at my friend's house who's my best friend since I was 12 years old. And she is married with two kids and she's been living in Orlando since we were 18 years old and she never left. And she has a very traditional lifestyle that she loves and she doesn't really know what I do either. She knows I'm always traveling around and stuff, but we're such good friends that even if we don't see each other for a few months or a year or two years, I can just text her and be like, Hey, I'm coming through town. She's like, yeah, come stay in the guest room. We'll have dinner, we'll catch up and you can just be yourself. So that's really important to kind of have both,  

Kristin:    00:36:06    But, and so it's important that, you know, sometimes I feel that people like they, they uh, bring across this vibe on Facebook that now they have all these like new friends and they're living this new life and they kind of like say goodbye to the people that they knew when they grew up. And I think it's, uh, you know, like the, the friends, it's a different kind type of friends that you have, like where you grow up. Like it really depends of course, like some people didn't really have a lot of friends or that really depends, but like, just because they're not the one who ones who can inspire you to live this life that you want to live, you should still keep them and like stay in touch. And actually I'm going with my friend to play badminton for the first time ever since like 15 years or whatsoever, uh, after this podcast interview <laugh>. And he also has two kids and he just moved back here into my hometown after he's been traveling, like working abroad in many places around the world. And he, you know, now he's like super happy to move back into like this town where I'm just like visiting and, and coming through. So that's why knowing a little bit about this circle, I think it's important to keep this,  

Johannes:    00:37:19    Uh, I love that. I completely agree. So now that we've been through this kind of full circle experience, luckily we didn't ditch our best friends <laugh>, but um, yeah, it can look like that sometimes on social media, like once people become location dependent or start traveling that they're like too cool for school and they're jet setting around and whatever. But yeah, it's, it's important to stay grounded. So how, how does the Nomad Cruise community, which is now on what cruise is this number 12 that's coming up  

Kristin:    00:37:53    1111,  

Johannes:    00:37:56    Can you explain a bit about how this community is different from if you are an individual solo traveler and you go to a new place and you stay for one month and by the end of the month you start to feel at home and you start to meet people and you start to kind of find your groove, how is plugging into the Nomad cruise community different and how are people able to make such deep friendships in such a short period of time? And then what is that relationship like once the cruise gets back to the dock?  

Kristin:    00:38:38    Okay, so first of all, I think that, I mean, what we're doing is like we are really trying to connect people on a much deeper level and we know how like we understand how to do this and how to build these relationship as, you know, as a community and as like individuals to connect. You know, like it starts from, if you want to share your cabin, you can just, you know, we try to find some cabin partner for you who's very similar to you as a person. So it's like a one-on-one matching where, and then as a big community that we are doing things that bring us closer together. So there's like a lot of elements that don't just foster like the one-on-one relationships, but also feeling part of a community. And you never get this when you're traveling solo around the world because maybe you go into a hostel and you get a little bit this community feeling after you've been there for a few days, but then everyone splits up again and it's not like as powerful again.  

Kristin:    00:39:38    And the thing is that the nomads, they're all traveling and living remotely in different places around the world. So the chance that you meet someone of them again is quite high and they know each other throughout the cruises. So they all had this experience, they all know a little bit what this has been about and this creates like a, a much stronger bond and you just go to, you know, to Bali and you meet two of your friends that you met once on a cruise and then there's like another two friends who they've been hanging out with for a while. So we are basically starting a little global village, right, of at the moment, 1000 people who knows each other, like people in a village does. I just came up with, yeah,  

Johannes:    00:40:24    That is a great way to describe it because every time you go to a new destination, there's a learning curve both to learn a city and then also to meet people and make connections and you can invest a lot of energy in getting comfortable in your immediate surroundings. And then also in social situations at hostels, at meetups, whether it's like an expat meetup or any kind of random meetup or you're going out to bars and things and you're trying to meet people and then you can put all this energy in and then you leave or those people leave and then you have to start over again in the next place. Whereas on Nomad Cruise, you get on this boat and it's like taking a networking happy hour event from a conference and then multiplying it times a million because instead of going to a two day conference somewhere where you just get to meet people on a surface level and you're completely exhausted by the end and you all have name tags on and you're like shuffling business cards around in your bag and you're like, who did I meet?  

Johannes:    00:41:30    What did we talk about? It's you go on this boat for 10 days or 12 days or however long it is and you're living with 500 people on the same boat, but you might make 20 or 30 really deep connections during that time that by the time you get off the boat you kind of have this concentrated experience where you got to know people so well during that seven to 10 days that it's almost like knowing them for four years <laugh> or something. And then you get to see them again and again or you get to travel with them or you get to meet up with them. I actually met Krista Romano, so Krista Romano who is a travel blogger, Kris Abella travels on Instagram. We didn't even meet on the first Nomad cruise. We were on the same cruise we never met, but other people through Nomad Cruise and through your Nomad Cruise alumni community introduced us. We met through the internet and on messenger and then we met in real life, I think in Puerto De has Brazil after Nomad Cruise eight or something like that. But we already felt like we were best friends because of the community and because of how we had connected before. And then  

Kristin:    00:42:48    We can more people, right, like that you both know, but you've never, you know, you've spend time with them before.  

Johannes:    00:42:55    And then we decided to, oh, we, we followed each other on social media, found out we were both going to Norway at the same time and ended up living together for like a few weeks in Norway and then became even closer friends. And all of this happened within a year. So I think that's kind of a good example of the fabric of this nomad cruise community where even if you haven't met someone directly, it's like you have 1500 potential friends <laugh> because you already have mutual friends with them and then you can start that relationship at any point in time in the future.  

Kristin:    00:43:34    Yeah, because you have common people that you can talk about. So like you have a lot more things to actually talk then just like, who are you, what are you doing? Like you don't need to start from scratch, but you can just go immediately and talk about certain people and like, oh, she's also coming here and that person's there. And you know, this was also one reason why I created this or why I found out that, that this is an interesting way to bring the nomads together. Because one thing I realized in the first years was, you know, always the moments there are the people that I actually can travel with and that I can meet again in many times. So if I invest my time into traveling and experiencing the work, I actually don't want to, now that I could say like the hard way waste my time speaking to too many other people unless there are locals, you know, and they, and I know I, I am coming back to this place every once in a while, but, um, it's really good to be well connected with the nomads because actually you're building up, you know, relationships that will last a lifetime or as long as you are living this remote life versus, um, you're going to, yeah, you're going to Nicaragua for a surfing vacation, but because you love to travel you always go to different places.  

Kristin:    00:44:47    So it's very unlikely that you meet these people again. But the nomads, they just kind of, they move around a few places around the world. So if you are becoming part of one type of nomad community, it's very helpful to have a network that is actually globally and knows each other well.  

Johannes:    00:45:04    Yeah. And so now that you're on the 11th cruise, can you give us a little bit of a preview into what the itinerary is for the next cruise as far as the cool destinations that people will get to go to, and then also the types of activities that are available on the cruise and the types of things that people can learn while they're having fun and traveling at the same time?  

Kristin:    00:45:33    So our next cruise is, uh, starting in the end of April. There are actually two different dates on I think the 17th and the 21st. So you can either leave from Kana in Colombia or you can join the boat a little bit later in St. Martin. And that's when we start the program. And then we are going across the Atlantic and we have, yeah, like a huge variety of program on board for people who are just starting out, you know, on finding remote work. But uh, also like people who have been, who are like serial entrepreneurs and have been building multiple business who just really explain to you how to automate your business and to like fun activities, like improve acting workshops or, you know, things like this. And then besides that, there's obviously like all the things that a normal cruise brings along, you know, like there's uh, parties, there's a pool, uh, you can do sports, you can go to the gym, you can do yoga in the morning, like people team up and they even organize their own meetups in the afternoon.  

Kristin:    00:46:38    So you don't even find, uh, the things like the interesting program on what we are doing. Uh, you can also organize your own meetups and there's usually like 100 meetups or more on, on each cruise. So it's really like community building that we're doing there. And then we organize also shows, you know, like a Shark Tank version, we call it Pran tank and also talent show or like nomad stories. So where people can really show off, show their talents and get on stage. Like we really want to encourage everyone who goes on the cruise to at least once be on stage and you know, like, and because also we do believe, I didn't say this before, but like these experiences, they create friendships, right? You can't really do this at a conference, but here you can go, you can talk to the speakers and then you can be on stage by the end of the conference as well.  

Kristin:    00:47:30    So there are many ways to get involved and all this while going across the Atlantic Ocean where we are gonna stop in Yeah, different places. And uh, so if, if you are leaving from Columbia already, you will see also like two stops in the Caribbean and Martin, beautiful island and Antigua. And then we stop in the Azures and then we arrive in Lisbon, which is basically one of the biggest hotspots for nomads in the world. And we have even on onboard the person who did most of the community building there in Lisbon and started, you know, to make it super famous. So you will have a amazing dive into this nomad live and you know, I either just test it and have a flavor or just continue with us as many people will continue to travel once we arrive Europe. That was a  

Johannes:    00:48:21    Lot. Yeah. And have, having been on two nomad cruises, I can say that you will never run out of things to do and you'll never get bored. If anything you'll wish that you could do four times more, uh, participating in the different activities and excursions because there's just a kind of an unlimited number of ways to have this experience and that's why it's such a cool community because people will kind of pop in and out to the different cruises. Like there's some people who like Stella, our our friend who's been on every single nomad cruise since the first one, and then there's other people who might go on one per year or one every other year. And so it turns into this really diverse group of people from like, I don't know, 50, 60 different countries probably now of all different ages and all different demographic backgrounds and all different career paths and skill sets.  

Johannes:    00:49:20    And it's like new digital nomads, aspiring digital nomads, people who just like to travel and want to meet cool people and aren't nomadic at all. Like there's like every type of yeah, age group represented and lifestyle represented and it just has everybody all inclusive in, in this one community. And then the other cool thing that you mentioned is that not only do you get to check off new places off your bucket list and add stamps to your passport, but you get to actually learn a lot and it's like a crowdsourced learning because you can set up your own meetup or you can speak or you can give a workshop and it's people are volunteering to do this for free. So do you see that this is kind of the future of the global, of global humanity in the next 10 years? Just people coming together and kind of skill sharing and bartering and traveling together and staying connected around the globe. Like what do you think is going to happen? Because so much has happened just in the last couple years.  

Kristin:    00:50:31    So I think it's like, uh, it's a stage of, uh, people's life to do this like this and it becomes so much more, you know, accessible for people to do this and, you know, to connect around the world to build community. This has been a problem for many people in travel. So there we are not the only ones who created some community, but there's like so many around the world that brings like, especially people who are traveling or who are experts together. And I believe it's just like, yeah, it just becomes a lot more. And the, the only question is, you know, how do people take on this? Like are they gonna do this now forever or are they just gonna, after a while they're gonna probably gonna stay, you know, in different places around the world, but there's definitely a moving trend to make friends from all over the world, uh, who have similar interests. And, um, it's been never easier than before to actually do this.  

Johannes:    00:51:27    And now you have set up a home base for yourself in Myorca, Spain. Um, why did you choose that destination specifically, and what do you think people should think about as they're traveling around the world? Should they be keeping an open mind as far as where they might want to set up a home base someday for themselves?  

Kristin:    00:51:53    Yeah, so I think that it's very, very important to have some kind of base and, um, it doesn't need to be like a, you know, like a, a base for forever, but the longer you travel, the more you kind of also want to have this what you have, you know, experience oftentimes when you were younger that you have your friends that, you know, like when I come back to my York, I just say like, Hey guys, I'm there back there tomorrow. Like, let's have a drink. And it's like immediately like a plug into this, um, into this community. And um, the reason why I chose Myca was because for me it was very easy to combine it with my life of being, you know, like from a town in Germany, uh, which is like very easy to get there from, from Myca, but also be connected to all the different people that I know from all over Europe or all over the world.  

Kristin:    00:52:40    So it's a very wild connected destination that is very beautiful and it's basically, you know, not too far from the airport and I don't want to travel like all the time, but if I, you know, there's always also like a lot of people just coming there to visit. So it's a great way, you know, to keep in touch with all the amazing people that you met around the world and just even, you know, live there and without having to travel all the time because, uh, yeah, traveling is really, really amazing. The only thing is that the longer you do it, the more it becomes like a thing that you already know, right? Like, so it's something that is amazing for a while and uh, and that's cool and it's a great way to see the world, but once you've done it quite a lot, just with like most things in life, right, you are also craving other things like a great mattress or a table that you can move up and down and a lot more of your privacy than just a hotel room. So, uh, it's good to have both  

Johannes:    00:53:43    And yeah, I, I have a home base now for a few months in Miami and I'm really enjoying that also. And it has a combination of the things I'm looking for, you know, being near an airport, having good infrastructure, having a moderate cost of living, which also Florida is one of the least expensive states in the US and Spain is one of the most affordable countries to live in in western Europe. So, you know, we're looking for these sorts of things. Also being in an international global community setting and being in a place where our friends and contacts might be passing through, these are all things that I think people should look out for when they're thinking of a place to set up a long-term base or to come back recurring times throughout the future. But then it's good to know that, you know, if you get bored or if you need some more inspiration or if you're struggling with a business strategy problem or you're looking for partners or people to collaborate or you just wanna take a break and have fun, you can hop on the Nomad cruise and just get inundated with all of this different stimulation and ideas and it's so exciting.  

Johannes:    00:54:52    And then you can end up finding yourself in the Caribbean on these tropical islands having fun or spending New Year's Eve in Dubai with all the people from the Nomad Cruise, which is what you guys did this year, right,  

Kristin:    00:55:06    With what we did as well in Rio de Janeiro. So we met in many different places around the world and now there's a lot of them in Bali. So like the, the community hangs out in different places depending on the time of year.  

Johannes:    00:55:23    Yeah, there's a lot of, uh, meetups after you get off the boat. It's like the boat is kind of the introduction to the lifestyle or to a bunch of people and then you can take it where you wanna go after that. So where can, um, I think we're gonna offer people, or you've offered the listeners of Badass Digital Nomads a discount, um, for the next cruise that's starting in April. So where can people go to get more information on the pricing and availability and the itinerary and things like that?  

Kristin:    00:55:56    So they can go to nomad cruise.com and that's where they will find everything very, very fast. There's a short like, application process. Um, we just really want to know like what, what people are interested in and you know, and then also we can clarify some questions if they have anything. But it takes, uh, uh, five minutes and then we get back to you like very, very soon. So nothing to really worry about, like just fill out this form and then people can, can jump on board and we'll have a, a coupon code here, uh, that they can use and then they, they get a, a little better deal as well. I think that once this podcast is live, there's not gonna be so much time, so, uh, they should check out this option immediately.  

Johannes:    00:56:40    Yeah, you guys will link to it in the show notes or you can go to nomadcruise.com and you can use the code travelingwithKristin to get a hundred euro off of any cabin that you decide to choose. And you can, there's a, a cabin or option for every budget and it's actually very budget friendly. So if you want to share a room and have roommates, or if you want your own private cabin with the ocean view balcony, there's like every option in between. And I've done both. I've had a roommate on one cruise, I've had a private cabin on the other. And it can also be a very affordable way to cross the ocean because you just get so much value in this price and you don't have to buy a plane ticket and you don't have to deal with jet lag. So you get to cruise across the ocean literally with all of your food included and all of these activities included in all the value from the conference and unlimited coffee and alcohol and all this stuff that you get on a cruise, a place to sleep. And it's just like less money. It's a very affordable,  

Kristin:    00:57:45    And you'll spend oftentimes less money than you would do at home in the same time.  

Johannes:    00:57:50    Completely. Or in an Airbnb, for sure. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:57:53    Yeah.  

Johannes:    00:57:55    So I, I can't let you go without doing a quick lightning round. We'll do that and then let you go play tennis or racquetball with your, with your friend <laugh>. Yeah. So we'll run through these questions really quick 'cause we, we know we have to get, extract some more value from Johannes. 'cause I know you that you have so much experience. So we'll start with my favorite question, which is, what is your favorite morning beverage?  

Kristin:    00:58:19    I would say just my favorite morning. So I switched to tea.  

Johannes:    00:58:25    Oh, I'm just, no more coffee.  

Kristin:    00:58:28    Yeah. No, I just switched to tea. And, uh, my, but I'm, I'm playing around with a lot of like different flavors that I could buy at the supermarket, so I'm not decided yet. Yeah,  

Johannes:    00:58:38    Good for you. I need to probably wean myself off coffee again. What is your morning routine that you follow no matter where you are in the world?  

Kristin:    00:58:49    So I try to wake up every morning around seven 30 and then I try to do a little plank, go five minutes a thing and basically just starting off, what I try to do as well is in the evening that I really think about the things that I want to do tomorrow. And that will get me like, really far, and I already have this list prepared when I wake up in the morning, I have to say that my morning routine changes, you know, sometimes quite a little bit or I improve it or I do this one thing for a while, but I just try to be like very productive and focused, especially in the mornings when I, when I get up and this works well for me,  

Johannes:    00:59:29    That few minutes at night when you make your list before the next day, that is so effective. So I, I second that, yeah. Strategy,  

Kristin:    00:59:37    I do it at the end of the work day usually.  

Johannes:    00:59:40    Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:59:40    Already in Asana, like the time, like this is what I wanna do first. And then, and then, and then you don't need to think so much like, oh, what am I gonna do tomorrow? And stuff. So it  

Johannes:    00:59:51    Helps, it's conserving energy and it's taking away one less decision you have to make the next day.  

Kristin:    00:59:57    Exactly.  

Johannes:    00:59:59    How many countries have you been to and what is one of your favorite leisure destinations and your favorite work destinations?  

Kristin:    01:00:09    So my favorite would probably still be Cape Town of all the places where I've ever been because it's a amazing city that has everything like adventurous to offer that you can dream of and, uh, that doesn't require snow and within one hour. And I love kite surfing and I can do this there very well as well because it's like the hotspot of the global kite surfing industry in the winter. And uh, it's got the same time zone. So this is where I love to spend time and hang out with a few friends that I've met like a long time over the last years. Yeah. And just, just go there. So this would be my, actually my favorite destination, my favorite work destination at the same time. Um, now I wanna put in something else that I, uh, yeah, well no, actually just like go to Cape Town. That's one thing I can recommend.  

Johannes:    01:01:06    I still haven't been there, but I was just talking to someone yesterday who was asking if I wanna go later this year. So it's been on my list for like seven years. I'll get there eventually. What tools do you use to run a Nomad cruise globally? Um, you guys have a distributed team where you can be living and working from anywhere. So what are some of the apps and remote work tools that you depend on?  

Kristin:    01:01:32    So we use Asana. It's the best, like for us, for our project management, we do use Slack, but not so much because we really try to stick to Asana as much as we can. Google Drive for some files and we use, I like to use a lot Loom, which is what I use, you know, to record short videos to, to explain a task. So I would make like a little bullet, you know, bullet list of things that need to be done. And then I send like a five minute video that explains a little bit more what, what is the idea behind the task that I try to like delegate. So Loom highly recommended. We use Zoom for our team calls, our weekly team calls, and then we have a bunch of like really smaller tools, very specific for, yeah, well, Wordpress, WuCommerce, you know, all these things. But Asana would be like the, the main thing and Loom that I could recommend.  

Johannes:    01:02:30    I really like Loom. And also YAC is another one. Okay. That we, that we like. Well I had the founder of YAC chat on, and it's very similar to Loom. So basically these are tools where you can record your screen, you can record video, you can record audio, and you can have asynchronous meetings. So you don't have to explain the same thing over and over to each person. You can just give them your, your link. So that's great. What is an app that you recommend for communicating across time zones or scheduling meetings and things? Because I know people struggle a lot with that.  

Kristin:    01:03:07    So we use Calendly, right? Mm-Hmm and then it's connected with the Google calendar. And, um, by doing this, whenever I go to a new destination, I just log into my Google calendar and I have exactly the time. Like I update the calendar to my time zone, and then all the times are perfect, so I don't need to check at all. Like, just the combination of Calendly and, uh, the calendar works pretty well to schedule appointments and make sure that you everyone has the right time.  

Johannes:    01:03:40    I use that too now after trying a lot of different tools I use, I use that combination as well. And lastly, what is a book that you recommend that maybe you've read recently or one that you keep going back to that you've found helpful in your entrepreneurial journey?  

Kristin:    01:04:00    That's actually, I think that, I think that there's a book that you, it al always really depends on where you are right now. And so I don't want to actually recommend the book because I think that, um, what we need to, one thing I think that people should be doing is like they should think what is my biggest challenge right now? And then they try to find out like, what are the most popular books about this topic, right? Because each time like now I'm building, you know, a remote company, so I want to learn about like scaling up, like, or how can I build this properly? Or how do I work effectively in a remote team or something like this. But someone who's just really starting out, like I might need just some inspiration like the Four-Hour Work Week or you know, like learn something about being more productive or whatsoever getting things done. And there's also a ton of new books coming out all the time. So I would just really recommend to think like, not just to read because they're curious, but to read because things interest them, you know, at this moment in time. Like just in time learning, I think learn about things that they can apply immediately, you know, about habits or anything really what, what people want to change in their life. Find out the best book about it.  

Johannes:    01:05:20    Yeah. You know, no one's ever said that, but I think that's really great advice because sometimes the thing that you're struggling the most with, if you just read two or three books on that topic, you could become an expert on it <laugh>. So just pick something that you are intimidated by or that you're struggling with or that you're confused with. Look at the best books in that sector and then dive in. Yeah, maybe you spend a couple months just reading about the same topic and then by the end of the year you'll be able to write your own book about  

Kristin:    01:05:54    It. And also the thing is like, you can read all the same book, but like you would do a have a completely different takeaway from a book because some people, like when I read the Four-Hour Work Week, for me the main takeaway was, okay, I can make a living online and I want to do this here from South Africa, so no matter what I'm gonna do, you know, I'll just do something. But I didn't like, there's like a ton of super valuable advice and if you make progress a bit more and you will take something else out of this book. But, um, yeah, really like read books that you can apply like immediately to your life because otherwise you just forget about them.  

Johannes:    01:06:32    That's great advice. And I actually this week just picked up a book that I read in the year 2000, which is called Make a Name for Yourself and it's about personal branding and rereading it. I think I'm in the second chapter now. I already have such a different perspective on this topic because of all the experience I've had with it and all the like life challenges and business challenges I've gone through. It's like rereading this book 20 years later since I was a teenager before. I'm just getting a completely different type of value out of the book. So that's also something, you know, look back at some books that you read before, but maybe you didn't understand the topic well enough back then and it's time to revisit it.  

Kristin:    01:07:18    So for example, as one example, like, I like to say this about the Four-Hour Work Week, I think that Tim Ferris had, uh, you know, the, the skill to paint a picture that something is so super easy, right? That everyone can do it. And this really inspired a lot of people, but also to really understand all the things and the connection between all the things that he's mentioning in the book. You need like seven years to learn. So like, so it's really like if you would read that book again each year you would take something completely different out of it and um, yeah, just like you're doing it with your, with your book now as well. So, or even if you read like the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, you know, like you would read this like in the beginning you're like, oh yeah, hmm, cool, this all makes sense. And if I would read this book right now, I would be like, yes, this is so true. Like I could probably write a lot of these things by myself, but I would still learn much more detailed by myself. And, but because I understood all these things because I ran into all these problems.  

Johannes:    01:08:27    That's so true. Well thank you so much Johannes for, for coming on and, and sharing some your experiences and, and for developing the Nomad crew so that thousands of people could then benefit and change their lives after attending. I know it's definitely changed mine and it's really enriched my life in a way that is almost unrecognizable from before I stepped on the boat in March or April of 2018. That was the first time. I mean it has really made a huge impact in my life. So if anybody listening is interested in going, then you can uh, check out the links in, in the show notes and hope to see you all there.  

Kristin:    01:09:14    Yes. That would be awesome. And um, yeah, looking forward to see some of you there. I wanna say one more thing about this. Oftentimes people say like, you know, they hear about the cruise and then they're like, yeah, you know, I want to go on one and I want to, you know, like maybe I go in winter or I go in some other time and I just wanna say that, uh, without trying to be pushy or anything, if you wanna go on this cruise and you feel that this is something for you, and I'm sure it's not, like not everyone would feel that, that this is something for them, then I would not hesitate to wait too long to go on this boat because it's not about the cruise, it's really about what is happening afterwards and all the experiences that you make and maybe you can, you know, learn so many things that otherwise would take you a really long time to figure out by yourself. So all these connections that you are making there, the earlier you make them, the easier it's for you maybe to do some changes later  

Johannes:    01:10:11    Completely. I think it would take me days to explain the after effects of what has happened through each individual connection I've made on that boat. It's mind boggling, <laugh>, like, it would take me forever just to even describe how things played out in the last year or so since I got on the boat for the first time. It's, yeah, it's, it's like an infinite potential and the whole traveling part and being in the pretty scenery is just a tiny part of what you take away in that kind of experience. So definitely the first one of its kind.  

Kristin:    01:10:49    Yes. Yes. So now I need to play badminton and <laugh> and then we'll, uh, talk again soon.  

Johannes:    01:10:59    Thanks Johannes. Okay. And thanks everybody for listening. Hope you like this episode of Badass Digital Nomads. If so, share it with a friend, leave a review and help other people learn about the  

Kristin:    01:11:12    Possibilities of the location independent lifestyle. ccia for now,  

Johannes:    01:11:18    Ccia,  

Kristin:    01:11:26    Do you love my podcast videos and writing and wanna get more involved? Now you can. Introducing the official launch of my new Patreon page, where for only $5 a month you can support my content and get a ton of cool benefits and value as one of my patrons. You'll get to watch my new YouTube videos before everyone else attend Patron only monthly live streams, vote on next videos and podcast guests or topics, get special discounts on merch and swag. Plus get access to exclusive content like unlisted video interviews, articles I haven't published anywhere else, house and apartment tours, personal updates, and of course plenty of behind the scenes footage and surprises throughout the year. Become a Patron of Badass Digital Nomads and Traveling with Kristin today at patreon.com/TravelingwithKristin. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com/TravelingwithKristin. And thank you so much for all your support.  

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