From Cubicle to Adventure: How to Combine Work and Travel for an Epic Life

Sneak Peek

Elena:    00:00:00    You kind of like try to find your tribes and I think if you are by yourself, like you get it, the chance to be invited and you don't have to follow someone else's agenda or you have to like compromise and at the same time, like you get to know yourself. Yeah, I think that's like the biggest challenge for me now. Like I really want to like know myself in a different way, which I don't think it would've been possible with another person because then I might have been influenced, you know? Like what do I want? Like that's kind of the reason why I'm doing this.  

Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests. 

Kristin Wilson, Host:    00:00:49    Hey there, Kristin, from Traveling with Kristin here and welcome to episode 203 of Badass Digital Nomads. This was an interesting one because the way that this podcast came about was quite spontaneous and it was a really good example of how interconnected the digital nomad community is. So last year in the fall I was headed to Portugal and my first stop was Lisbon to go to Web Summit for the first time. But I didn't know anyone who was going and I didn't have that many contacts in Lisbon. So I reached out to my friend and former guest on this podcast, Dave Williams, and I asked him if he was going and if he knew anyone going. And so he added me to a WhatsApp group full of people going to Web Summit. So I instantly had a group of friends and you could do this too if you go into Facebook groups and ask people to add you to WhatsApp groups.  

Kristin:    00:01:49    So boom, all of a sudden you have your little brand new social network of friendly people who are looking to welcome others into the group. And so even though Dave wasn't going that year, he set me up with this group and I sent them a message to see if anyone wanted to come on the podcast to talk about their experience and got a ton of volunteers. So the first person who I ended up talking to is on the show today and her name is Elena. She's a digital nomad from Berlin who is the managing editor for a company called Dataconomy, Media. She's worked in art tech and business for the last decade and she's also the founder of Data Natives. You can learn more about her on her bio in the show notes, but I was really surprised at where this topic ended up going.  

Kristin:    00:02:42    And it's all about designing your life around your interests, as we did last week. I'll let her share her story and insights with you and then I'll give you my takeaways and reflections on her points at the end. So let's hear her story. 

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Podcast Interview:

Kristin:  I'm here with Elena at Web Summit in Lisbon. And Elena, tell us a little bit about what you do. What company do you work for?  

Elena:    00:04:35    Awesome. Yes, thank you very much for having me on this, Kristin. So I'm at a Web Summit for the second time. Oh yes. And I'm speaking for the second time as well. And I, uh, run a media outlet called Dataconomy Media focuses on data science, artificial intelligence, machine learning. And I also have a big community of data scientists I like, I like, I like how I say I have them <laugh> and I'm organizing hackathons, workshop, webinars. We have a big conference so we kind of find ways to interact with the community the best way possible and to put news out for them, to educate them, to help them educate themselves, to help them connect with each other. And I'm here because, well, I'm a topic expert on that. And in generally, like I'm very much excited about anything tech and emerging technologies. 

Kristin:    00:05:20    Perfect. So you came here last year or how many years ago did you come?  

Elena:    00:05:24    I came here last year. Okay. And now it's my second time. Yes. And what I also came one more time before actually, but I'm not really counting it cuz I, you know, I was more in the periphery now I'm really in, so I feel like I'm really connected with Web Summit.  

Kristin:    00:05:38    Yeah. Amazing. And what did you love about this conference?  

Elena:    00:05:42    Uh, nice question. So I think like it's everything and everyone there here, right? So it's really like the most famous conference, tech conference in the world. Uh, you get like a lot of knowledgeable people that come to share knowledge with each other. There's so much of a variety of it, of information as well. And it's just so huge and it has topics like ranging from any kind of vertical, like an industry. So it's, it's pretty exciting to be here and to meet all these people and it's at the same time overwhelming. So it depends like what kind of thing you like, right? Right. Because it has everything for everyone. But also you can very easily get lost here.  

Kristin:    00:06:19    Totally. You get a little, a little bit of fomo, but I'm making it work. And luckily a lot of the talks are recorded and streamed live so you can always watch them back. But I think a lot of people are here for the human connection that you get for the networking, uh, to learn from other people, but also to meet people from around the world with like, I think there's 71,000 people here, so  

Elena:    00:06:39    Exactly. 71,000. Exactly. Yeah. I think, I mean for me, because I usually get overwhelmed actually, like I don't get fomo. I just have to decide like the way that I hack the, the Web Summit is that I decide what I wanna do on the day that I do it. Right. That's one thing that I really want do  

Kristin:    00:06:56    In the flow in the moment

Elena:    00:06:57   And I'm also, yeah, I'm actually like, I decide on specific things that they don't, that they give me space enough to breathe and to actually let, like let go of things and surrender myself and serendipity because I mean otherwise I wouldn't have met you. Right. Like. It just happened. I had no intention to meet you and then you message and I was like, okay, sure, I'll I'll come. Yes, I'll meet you.

Kristin:    00:07:18    And now we're best friends.  

Elena:    00:07:20    <laugh> BFFs. Exactly.  

Kristin:    00:07:21    Yeah. And where are you based?  

Elena:    00:07:23    I'm a nomad at the moment.  

Kristin:    00:07:24    Oh yes. A nomad, <laugh>, other nomads. A real unicorn nomad in the flesh. 

Elena:    00:07:30  Unicorn! Yeah. So my company, uh, is based in Berlin. I've been operating in from there seven the last seven years. But since the pandemic, I actually start traveling and now I don't have a base. I'm considering Lisbon as my second home. Berlin, I'm only going there one month a year, let's say like tops two if I need to. So now I'm not planning to be back until March, it's just that I'm registered there. I'm also trying to find if any no months know, like I'm trying to find ways to actually also register somewhere. But that's another like, to be nomadic in an actual sense. 

Kristin:    00:08:02   and register for tax purposes. 

Elena:    00:08:03    Exactly. You need a res, you need like a resident somewhere. Yeah. But yeah, I'm really attracted to Lisbon and I really wanna go to warm climates and my plan is to just travel the world as much as possible.  

Kristin:    00:08:13    Yeah. Where were you before Lisbon? What was your–

Elena:    00:08:15    So I've been like, so I, I go a lot to conferences and I stay around the area. So before Lisbon now was in Greece for a month. Before that, I was in Berlin for a month. Then I was also in the summer. I traveled around like in London. I was there for a month in Armenia for a couple of weeks. Yeah. So I'm just, wow. Yeah, I'm just traveling around.  

Kristin:    00:08:34    Amazing. And do you know where you're gonna go after Portugal?

Elena:    00:08:37    So I'm gonna go to, I'm gonna stick around for another week, not in Lisbon. I'm gonna go down south in Lagos. And then my plan is to travel to Helsinki for Slash. Do you know slash? Slash, it's another really big conference that happens in Finland. Yes. And I'm gonna stay there and I want to try to find a spot to go and see the Northern Lights <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:08:55    Oh yes. That's a great place to see them. Yeah, exactly. Um, I've seen them in Iceland, but nice. Newland is the best.  

Elena:    00:09:02    One of the best places. Yeah. I need to figure it. I need to figure it out. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:09:05    I love that you uh, mentioned that, that you are a, a nomad who travels around to conferences because one of the things that I talk about a lot on this podcast actually is how you can kind of build your life around your interests and go places that support either your career interests, your personal interests. And that is the reason that both of us are here today. We've based ourselves in Lisbon to be able to come to this summit and then staying in Portugal and going another place that makes sense for you going to Finland. I just came from a another conference in Amsterdam and so this is the, I think the lifestyle of the future where you can just go places for a month or a few months where there's something of interest for you there. So that is very cool.  

Elena:    00:09:50    Absolutely. Like I'm still trying to optimize it. I'm new to this, I like, that's why I even said before like I don't know exactly how to, to hack the system to have like the best and more sufficient tax ID. Right. Or like a location register somewhere.

Kristin:    00:10:03    I have a podcast for that  

Elena:    00:10:04    <laugh>. Exactly. Like I need to listen to you send to you. Yeah. I need to listen to you, yeah, exactly. And I'm actually signed up for a couple of groups, like digital nomad groups and so forth. I think I'm gonna start like following them cuz there's some conferences also for nomads. Yes. So yeah, Lisbon is a place for nomads. I picked up the idea from a very good friend of mine who was a nomad for a while now he moved to Berlin and we trade space places.  

Kristin:    00:10:27    <laugh>, I love Berlin.  

Elena:    00:10:27    He moved to Berlin and now I'm like, oh, I'm gonna be nomadic. But to be honest, like I also want to find my space soon. It's just that for now it feels like I'm going with the flow, you know? Yeah. And I just want to go to places as much as possible. And I, I also like the idea of solo– solo traveling and somehow what kind of like, yay. What kind of like boundaries you overcome by doing that. Right. So, and it's like, the thing is, it's the easiest one with conferences cuz you go to a conference as well. You, you get a chance to meet the people you might not even, like, you might even know people. And I kind of go with the flow. So yeah, that's, that's what I do now.  

Kristin:    00:11:00    Yeah. A lot of people, uh, think that it's scary to solo travel or that it's lonely, but I found that it's quite the opposite. Like you get your alone time to decompress and relax, but then you also almost have more opportunities to meet people because you're not traveling with anyone and so you end up being a bit more sociable and kind of getting picked up into groups of other people and –and meeting them that way. Like you mentioned you were hosting a brunch tomorrow Yes. Or organizing  

Elena:    00:11:27    Yeah. So yeah, after, after Helsinki, after I do the Northern Lights, I'm going to Paris cuz I'm hosting a hackathon for a blockchain company called Portia, Portia blockchain and we are doing a, a brunch tomorrow to promote that and to get developers in Paris to come and hack. So yeah, I kind of combine also my work time, you know, and my like my, my interests, my work activities and everything with my travels and Yeah, exactly. Like you kind of like try to find your tribe and whether, you know, people already there or like, if you are part of a community like this, it's k–i it's very easy to get invited into things and I think if you are by yourself, like you get it, the chance to be invited and you don't have to follow someone else's agenda or you have to like compromise and at the same time, like you get to know yourself. I think that's like the biggest challenge for me now. Like I really want to like know myself in a different way, which I don't think it would be easier like it would've been possible with another person because then I might have been influenced, you know? Like what do I want? Like that's kind of the reason why I'm doing this. 

Kristin:    00:12:29    Yes. I actually just did a video about why I left the US to go nomadic again. And one of the reasons was I was talking about how travel, it really helps you get to know yourself outside of your hometown, outside of your community, and kind of out there in the world. And I think regardless of whether you go back to your home country later, it's like you're going out gathering information about these places, about who you are as a person and kind of finding your own flow. And that's very empowering and it just makes you feel kind of like a rock star. And um, where do you think, uh, what are some of the things that attract you to Portugal and what are you looking forward to seeing and doing in Lagos?  

Elena:    00:13:11    Yeah, so I, uh, before I was, I came to summit, I was, uh, at a small like, uh, retreat with some friends, uh, mainly spiritual entrepreneurs who are basically using different practices to sort of like connect with themselves and sort of understand themselves better as well. And you know, as an entrepreneur you are, you usually are very hardcore with yourself, with deadlines, with the surroundings, like, so giving, having yourself this kind of downtime in an environment which is like close to nature, really helps connect with, with the surrounding. Like I'm very mental Yeah. As an entrepreneur. Like everything is in my head. So like, it's very important for me in Lagos to like be able to go for a walk on the water to be able to like explore the nature, like go to forest, like hike. So that's pretty much what I'm looking for in Lagos.  

Elena:    00:13:57    And yeah, I mean afterwards, that's why I'm like, after Helsinki, after I do the Slash and my plan, my plan is to go and check the northern lights. Like really experience everything that life has to give. Yeah. So, and I think like when you are stuck in a nine to five job in an office or when you have your own office, right. For me, like the, the most liberating thing was when pandemic hit, I didn't need to have an office. Right. Because before I had an office. So then I was like, I don't need to have an office. And I mean, okay, the travel restrictions at the beginning were tough,  

Kristin:    00:14:23    right? 

Elena:    00:14:24    But then soon now, like I have no office, I just have a 

Kristin: you had opened up 

Elena: Yeah. I just have a post box where we get all the letters Right. And we have to be registered as a company, but I only have a post box and I'm just free to be wherever I want. And now like, I'm just trying to figure out like time zones for clients and projects and pretty much plan everything around that. So, yeah, and I'm always trying to also potentially even visit friends. So I haven't decided it after the, the lights if I'm gonna go and visit, visit a friend in Riga or not. But yeah, I mean like I'm in this exploratory phase where it's, sometimes it's a month, other times a week, like in a place and I just, my only like go-to thing right now is I get one way tickets. So I'm just like, I'm here and I haven't bought my ticket yet to her thinking. So like, I'm just, you know, I'm just, until I, I feel the, the vibe and know how long I wanna stay, I try not to commit to a timeline.  

Kristin:    00:15:15    Yeah. It, it's almost like as humans we have this kind of inner compass that tells us where to go next. And maybe this is reconnecting with this nomadic roots that we have in our DNA. It's almost like the biological clock, but like the inner compass. And in that sense, and I, I feel the same way. I feel like you, you kind of know when you wanna stay somewhere longer and you know when you wanna put down roots somewhere and you also know when you're ready to move on to the next place. So being like a long-term nomad, I can save from experience that you're on the right track and the right path. And sometimes this exploratory phase of your life, it can last for years, you know, so you just ride that wave until it lands somewhere softly in the sand and then maybe stay somewhere for a while. And then like me, when you feel the need to move again, you move.  

Elena:    00:16:03    Well you know, it's a funny thing you say that because I think one of other reason why I decided to do this, because I do wanna follow more my instinct and my inner voice. And I think like again, nine to five or like being in the same place, you just get so comfortable in a routine. Yeah. That is sort of like lose the actual you in the whole place or like connecting with the environment. So it's, that's my way to reconnect with myself and the environment. And I think like starting following like how do I feel about this place? How do I feel about this and maybe this, this person or how do I feel about whatever? And maybe like one day I'll just get a one way ticket and never leave. You know,  

Kristin:    00:16:38    <laugh>, anything's possible. Time will tell. 

Elena:    00:16:41    Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:16:43    Thank you so much Elena for sharing your Web Summit experience with us and your nomad experience. Yes. It's great to hear from a new nomads lifestyle and I look forward to staying in touch with you on the internet.  

Elena:    00:16:54    Same, same follow now your podcast.  

Kristin:    00:16:56    Yes. Seeing you in another country somewhere. Right? You never  know

Elena:    00:16:59   Keep in touch. Yeah, exactly. Thanks for having me. Thank you.  

Kristin:    00:17:02    That was amazing. I really enjoyed talking with Elena and I got so much inspiration and ideas from our conversation, so I hope you did too. I'm really glad that she volunteered to come on the show today and she gave me a lot to think about. The first thing that comes to mind is this concept, which is the title of the podcast. The idea to plan your life through travel and live in places where there are people or conferences or events that you're interested in. I believe that this idea originated a long time ago, but the practicality of actually being able to do it is something that we've only really had the freedom to, to do in modern times, at least for our current generation. After World War II, this freedom growing exponentially with technology and the adoption of remote work has really opened the potential for where and how you can live.  

Kristin:    00:18:08    And thinking back on my own experience, the first time that I noticed this desire to move long-term to a place that aligned with my interests was when I moved to Australia to study abroad in 2003. And so this idea that you could just decide to go to the epicenter of your industry, your favorite sport, or a subculture of something that you're interested in, just really blew my mind. <laugh> at the time, the reason I wanted to go to Australia was because I was a competitive surfer and I went there and was able to train with one of the top surf coaches from the Quicksilver brand. And so ultimately I was able to study abroad in a town that's literally called Surfers Paradise because it is a surfer's paradise. And I was able to train there, go to school and just immerse myself in that surf culture in Australia.  

Kristin:    00:19:10    So as a surfer, you could decide to move to Hawaii or Australia or Mexico or just chase the endless summer, you know, just like the movie you could spend part of the year in Bali, part of the year in the Caribbean, part of the year in Europe, Africa. I mean, there's so many surf spots around the world and you could just live like that for as long as it fits your needs. Um, but if you're interested in food, you can just pick up and go to France for a few months and immerse yourself in the art of French cooking. Or if you are a fan of fine art, that's a great place to go as well. And if you want to learn a new language, as we've talked about on the podcast before, you can move to back country to immerse yourself in the language and take classes while working online.  

Kristin:    00:20:02    So I love meeting people like Elena and hearing about where their interests and passions take them. I don't work in the tech industry, but it was really interesting to hear how she was traveling to different tech conferences and then hosting her own events like brunches and meetups to meet other people in her industry and make those connections. So there's a lot of different layers to this. You, you don't necessarily have to commit to something long term like even a semester abroad, but you can do mini trips and you can start to layer together different locations that align with your hobbies or with your career goals or with areas where you're going to find a lot of success with networking and making business contacts. So you can go somewhere for personal reasons, for professional reasons, for familial reasons, and you can do it on a short or long-term basis.  

Kristin:    00:21:03    So if you consider living in your home country or, or at your current home where you rent or own, if you live there year-round, but then maybe you travel for work conferences one or two weeks per year, you could actually flip that on its head and just set up a short term home base in those destinations. So you could fly to Italy this year in May and June and join the Nomad Cruise and then stay in the Mediterranean for a few months and hang out. And then maybe you work in digital marketing, you could fly back to the US and go to a big conference like Content Marketing World in September, and then you could fly back to Portugal for Web Summit in October. Or you could wait until next year and go to Web Summit in Brazil and then hang out at the new Digital Nomad Village in Brazil for a few months and see what the life is like there.  

Kristin:    00:22:00    So this ability to design your life and choose your geographic location based on your interests and go where your people are is never ceases to amaze me. I mean, it's just astonishing that we have this capability now, and that's even one of the reasons why I'll be in the UK this summer. That's to be closer to family and some work opportunities and also to study music production on the weekends because they have some really good schools there compared to the US and it's also more affordable. And I prefer the lifestyle there in Europe. And I think even Stephen Pressfield talks about this, I believe it's in the War of Art. It's either in the War of Art or maybe it's in his book Turning Pro, where he talks about moving to the place where you can find a mentor or moving to the place where you'll be surrounded by the energy and the infrastructure that's going to support your career goals.  

Kristin:    00:23:06    So let's say that you want to be on Broadway, you would move to New York, or if you want to make it in the music business or the movie business, you might want to move to California. And there's definitely something to be said for placing yourself in the middle of what you want to do and who you want to be around because your network is your net worth as they say. So being in a place where there's a lot of like-minded people, uh, where you're gonna have those connections that you need for work or just going to a place because you like it <laugh>, like maybe you want to follow the eat, pray love map and go from Italy to India to Bali, you know, whatever you want to do now, you can probably do it. So there's a lot of food for thought there when you're planning out what you want to do next in life. 

Kristin:    00:24:01    And then she also mentions that she's going with the flow for now traveling around, but that she wants to quote-unquote find her space eventually. So find a home base, find a place to settle down. This is another, uh, topic that we've mauled over on the show as to like, what is the exit strategy of being an ex-pat or a digital nomad? Do you just keep circumnavigating the globe, or do you stop somewhere and put down roots? Do you go back to your home country? That answer is going to be different for you in different phases of life perhaps. But I thought it was interesting that she was feeling the urge to travel now, but that she had in the back of her mind that she was subconsciously looking for a place to potentially settle down. She says, maybe I'll just never come back and just get this one-way ticket to a country and stay there.  

Kristin:    00:24:59    And of course, you know, with getting your residency status, in her case, I think it was easier because being, uh, a an EU citizen, she can live in other countries in Europe. But another thing that stood out was how comfortable she felt with solo traveling, which is something that can seem really intimidating until you do it. And then sometimes it can make you feel very empowered and, and more sociable than you would have been traveling with a group because when you solo travel and you go to events and you go new places, you end up meeting a lot of people. Um, and then you also get that balance where you can retreat to your solo travel itinerary and decompress. So I really related to that having done a lot of both solo and group travel, and I wrote about that quite a bit in Digital Nomads for Dummies of how you can work out what time of year or what time of your life that group travel is the best thing for you versus solo travel.  

Kristin:    00:26:05    And then something to be mindful about, of course, especially when you're changing locations and you're putting yourself out there and going to lots of networking events is to be mindful of burnout. Because when you go to a new place or you go to a big conference, you're spending a lot of energy adapting to that place, socializing and meeting new people and just learning the ropes. Or maybe you're out there promoting your business, whatever it is that you're doing. So you are expending a lot of energy and you just, I found that leaning into some solo time to decompress is very helpful. And you also wanna have time to implement the ideas and inspiration that you're getting from these kinds of events and from all of the people that you meet. So everyone's different with, you know, how much of that stimulation you want before you want to go back home or go to your home base and execute on those new ideas.  

Kristin:    00:27:17    And then at the end, she specifically says, what do I want? And there's something about this that can sometimes feel selfish when you say it out loud, like, what about me? What do I want? But I believe that what you want deep inside is inherently part of your life's purpose and your life's path, and that is going to help you fully express what you want to do in the world. So really tuning in to what you want and making those decisions based on the answers you get from yourself, from your subconscious, from your intuition versus what everyone else is doing on social media or what this group of people is doing at this conference. I think that's really important for your soul and your identity as a person. But it's also quite practical when it comes to what you want to do next in life.  

Kristin:    00:28:21    Are you looking for a soulmate? Are you looking to expand your professional network or find a potential business partner somewhere? Um, just having the idea of what is it that's most important to you at that time, and then going out and looking for it, you'll usually find the answers. So if you're feeling stuck and you don't have ideas or you're not sure what to do next, maybe you can find a mastermind or a group at a coworking space somewhere, whether it's in Chang Mai or whether it's remote online. We actually talked about an episode 199 about how you can find a mastermind to brainstorm with. That could be something that you feel like you really need, but it also could just be going out and getting ideas and inspiration and having fun. Like maybe you need to go to Florence and eat a lot of pasta, or maybe you feel like you wanna get out in nature and go do some hiking in South America, or you wanna really challenge yourself and climb Mount Everest or something like that.  

Kristin:    00:29:32    I mean, just, it's pretty cool that we can think about, okay, what do I want? What do I need right now? Do I need to hunker down and work? Do I need to go out and play? Do I need to relax? And so when she said that, it kind of was like a wake up call, like, yeah, remember, what do you want to do? Uh, you can go out and do it. And then also she mentioned going places specifically to visit friends, and this is, I think one of the best parts of, uh, location, independent lifestyle is the increased amount of quality time that you can spend with friends and family. You know, going to sleep on a friend's couch for a week or so that you haven't seen in a few years, or going to visit family members that you maybe haven't seen in a few years.  

Kristin:    00:30:17    As you know, I just got back from visiting my brother and my niece out in California and I, I don't think I had seen them for over a year. And I'm about to go visit family who lives in London. So that's a really fun way to plan where you're going to go next and spend quality time with people outside of the typical holidays. So when you are thinking of what to do and where to go next, remember to check in with yourself, see what you need, feel the vibes where you are, and then look around and see if there's anything going on that could inspire your next destination. Maybe it's an event, maybe it's a person, maybe it's an activity. And enjoy the journey, have fun with it. And remember to check out Unbound Marino if you're looking for some basic attire that's going to last and be lightweight and easily packable for your next adventure. I'm stocking up on clothes right now from both Unbound Marino and Anatomie, which is another one of my favorite travel apparel brands. So I will leave those links in the show notes for you and see you again next week.