Coping with Coronavirus Quarantine - Why Digital Nomads are Better Prepared

Sneak Peek:

Kristin:    00:00:00    Digital nomads, freelancers, independent workers. We have this sense of self where even if our revenue gets cut off, which mine did most of it, we have this kind of self-confidence and abundance mindset that we know we can figure out new revenue streams. Like it doesn't matter if you take all of our revenue streams away, we will just literally start over with something else. And if we don't know how to do it, we'll learn.  

Kristin:    00:00:31    Hi everyone, and welcome to another special guest episode of Badass Digital Nomads, where we are hosting an episode of Johnny FD's podcast Travel like Boss, because Johnny has been doing a couple of episodes about digital nomads under quarantine lately. He did one episode on April 3rd, Digital Nomads COVID-19 Quarantine special. That's episode 244 of Travel Like A Boss. And then another follow-up episode 245, quarantine special part two. That one was published on April 13th. And Johnny sent out a group email to see if anyone wanted to send in their audio messages to explain how they were handling the pandemic. So I sent an, an audio message and I was a guest on Johnny's podcast two years ago. And so he asked me to come on and discuss why digital nomads are coping better with the quarantine and with the pandemic in general. Of course, I had a lot of thoughts on that.  

Kristin:    00:01:45    So I made a list and then you guys know me, it turned into a blog post. So now there is a full blog on Medium on why digital nomads are better equipped economically, emotionally, and mentally to handle this pandemic and to weather this storm. And then now we have a follow-up interview where Johnny and I sit down and discuss all of the reasons, and we also talk about what you can do to make your job and your life more resilient to future natural and economic disasters. So I would love to hear from you guys, what do you think of this? And you can leave me a voice message now at TravelingwithKristin.com/podcast. Or you can send me a message on social media Traveling with Kristin, or to hello@TravelingwithKristin.com. So would love to hear what you have to think. Without further ado, here's our episode of Travel Like a Boss.  

Podcast start:

Johnny:    00:02:55    Hey everyone, this is Johnny Fd and welcome to episode 246 of the Travel Like a Boss podcast. Uh, I am in Sri Lanka and I have a special episode with Kristopher Wilson who is in, was it Miami? Miami, Miami, Florida. And we both have our Zoom virtual backgrounds if you guys are watching this on YouTube <laugh>. But this is actually the beach here in Sri Lanka. I'm, I'm just a block away, but I just couldn't film out there because it's, it was so backlit.  

Kristin:    00:03:20    I should totally have a beach background, but I just like this coffee shop. It reminds me of Amsterdam. Yeah,  

Johnny:    00:03:26    It looks nice. And I do miss going to coffee shops. I'm working at a coffee shop, so it's nice to see you in there. Yeah,  

Kristin:    00:03:33    I had a lot of video calls today and I was using this background and everybody was like, commenting. They're like, did you find a coffee shop that's open during the quarantine? Yeah. I was like, no,  

Johnny:    00:03:43    <laugh>. It's funny that the, the things that we miss, and a lot of it is really just the, our day-to-day lives of going to a coffee shop or going to the gym. But in this episode, what the reason why I wanted to have you on is I wanted to talk about how life in a lot of ways isn't that different for digital nomads and how it seems like a lot of our friends, our nomad friends are coping during this quarantine way better than the average person. And you actually just wrote a really long medium article about exactly that. Right?  

Kristin:    00:04:12    For sure. I was thinking about it before, and then I got your email about your podcast having people call in and, and record messages. And it had been on my mind a lot, you know, 'cause we have all this time to think. And so I left you guys a message and then was happy to come on and talk about it. So when I was thinking about it and taking notes and making a list of all of the, the reasons why we aren't so effective affected, it turned into a blog post. And so I just published it <laugh> and I was like, well, this works  

Johnny:    00:04:41    So super. And it was a  

Kristin:    00:04:43    Good feedback. People really like it.  

Johnny:    00:04:44    Yeah. It's been a super well-written, uh, blog post. Lots of good detail in there. And we'll link it in the show notes of this episode. Uh, and if you guys recognize Kristin's voice, she was on episode 198 when we were actually neighbors and living together in SCO Bulgaria.  

Kristin:    00:05:02    I can't believe that was two years ago.  

Johnny:    00:05:04    I know, right? It's, it's, it sounds insane. Almost like,  

Kristin:    00:05:07    Almost exactly two years ago. It's so weird.  

Johnny:    00:05:10    Yeah. But welcome back. And actually that, that article that you posted, it was perfect timing that you put that up first because we got a few more, uh, actually a bunch of comments on there with feedback. And half of the people were saying, you know, thank you for writing this. This is so spot on. This actually explains why my life hasn't changed that much. But I, you know, and, and I'll, I'll actually just read a few of them. Um, Steve says, love this article. So many of my non-digital nomad friends are really struggling stress-wise. And I couldn't pinpoint why I'm dealing well with Inanity, and I've been feeling guilty that I'm handling it so well. Kristin's well thought out article, perfectly explained the why. Thanks. And we got a couple more of those too. Corey says, great article spot on with what's going on in my mind, almost to the point of feeling a bit selfish that I'm not feeling much difference at all.  

Johnny:    00:06:03    And Kevin says, yep, I agree too. We have a six and a 4-year-old and we're in Tulum, Mexico now escaping the lockdown in San Diego. It's a shame that we can't go to restaurants or visit the gym or park, but our life other than these services are the same. We still homeschool on the road as normal and work as normal. So before we get to the, you know, the, the, the downsides or for, for the people that are, are not true. And, and just to stipulate this, you know, we know that there's a lot of people who are going through, you know, bigger struggles, whether someone's actually sick, uh, and in immediate danger of actual, of, of death or illness. Uh, there's some people that who really are financially struggling, uh, and some people are in really bad, you know, situations. So our condolences to these people who feel bad, generally bad for these people.  

Johnny:    00:06:49    Uh, but this episode is really gonna be about the other 99% of people who don't seem like they're struggling that much in our kind of circle. And let's talk first talk about some of the, you know, let, let's, let's talk about the pros and cons of it. 'cause you know, we have these three messages of people, you know, saying, Hey, life really isn't that bad. And I, and I was feeling bad that my life isn't bad. Why is that? And then we'll talk about the other side as well. So why, why do you think that is? Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:07:13    Yeah. There's this guilt that I think a lot of digital nomads have been feeling silently and didn't say anything about it. And I didn't realize it until I posted this blog and I got those comments because, um, yeah, nobody wants to say like, Hey, it's not that bad because they feel bad about it. But one thing I've learned with v blogging and writing is that you shouldn't hedge. You should just tell it like it is. And it's gonna resonate with people better. Because when I first drafted the article, like I was, I was walking around and typing out all my notes and my phone, and when I wrote it out the next morning, I had a lot of kind of words that were softening the blow a little bit. Mm-Hmm. Because I think I was afraid of people reading it and then thinking that I was bragging or something, or that I didn't feel bad or feel empathy for the people that were truly suffering.  

Kristin:    00:08:02    And then I cut those words out and I was like, no, this is how it is. And I want people to see this because they can have it too. It's like, it's not that we're part of some exclusive club that only, we aren't directly affected by it because of all the reasons that we're gonna talk about. But it's like this digital nomads live a life that is very close to a normal ideal life of what we would have if we weren't stuck in the rat race. 'cause we're not anymore. And so I think that we're providing an example for people of how just using like logic and common sense and being able to like extricate themselves from that situation, like from the matrix in a way, <laugh>, they can be more resilient to any type of thing that life throws at them. You know, whether it's a pandemic or they get fired or laid off from their job, or there's just so many things that the digital nomad lifestyle can provide for.  

Kristin:    00:09:00    But I mean, it's not, our lifestyle's not easy by any means, but when shit hits the fan, like, we kind of have all of our ducks in a row, and we've been integrated into the remote economy for many years, so we've already been through a lot of the ups and downs, and so we just can kind of like roll with the punches, wait things out, and you know, we, our income has gone up and down a lot too, so we're comfortable with that kind of uncertainty and we've already prepared for the worst. Whereas a lot of people have been in a really more comfortable situation with a more, um, with a paycheck that they can depend on. And then now all of that got like ripped away from them overnight. So yeah, I mean, people like we, a lot of people are feeling guilty, but I think that it's important that digital nomads that are listening, or any remote workers that are listening feel comfortable talking about it with their friends and sharing their experience and hopefully inspiring their friends to like take the leap quote unquote, because they can see that it's actually less risky to have this kind of lifestyle, whether you're traveling or not, just being able to generate income for yourself from anywhere in the world, just using internet, even if you're on lockdown.  

Kristin:    00:10:09    And, uh, just to show a different perspective that hey, the outliers who looked crazy and that we were doing all this risky stuff. Actually that's, that's being, that's really helpful right now in a time of crisis, in a time of emergency.  

Johnny:    00:10:22    I definitely agree with everything you just said. And I've heard those, those who are listening, you know, hopefully even if you're, you, you weren't a nomad yet, or you, uh, weren't self-employed, uh, you know, up until now, maybe you can take some of these tips and start implementing them now, because not all of them are, are even about, you know, work and business. Uh, we have a whole list of, of of things that we've thought of that have mindsets and, and actions that have helped us just right now, but also to really prepare for the next time something like this happens. Because even though we think this is a one once in a lifetime pandemic, and hopefully, hopefully it will be, I guarantee in the next 10 years there's gonna be something else that's gonna happen. Whether it's another recession for a different reason or different virus or a different, you know, uh, you know, maybe there'll be war three.  

Johnny:    00:11:06    There's gonna always gonna be something that's gonna come up. And I think that nomads really are resilient because first we're scared all the time. <laugh>, we're always kind of worried about, you know, losing our income, you know, uh, losing our visa status, losing our luggage, you know, losing something, losing our minds. So we're always thinking about that <laugh>, while most people living back home working a nine to five job, they feel safe and secure because they have a normal job and a normal routine and nothing changes that much. But in reality, you know, they're not, a lot of people just aren't prepared or aren't thinking about what could happen if, you know, their safe, secure job and their paycheck did go away.  

Kristin:    00:11:43    Yeah. It's like a false sense of security. And it's something that people have been talking about for a really long time, but it hasn't been a necessity to make any changes. It's been like an optional thing, a voluntary thing that people think that one day maybe I'll quit my job, maybe I'll make this change. And it's like all of a sudden billions of people had the rug pulled out from under them at the same time. But it really actually is an opportunity because they, a lot of people got forced out of situations that they didn't like to begin with. And so this is really an opportunity for people to like think twice before going back into that situation in case something happens again. And I actually saw an article on Medium today, or on Quora, maybe written by a freelancer, and he said, now is not the best time to start freelancing.  

Kristin:    00:12:31    Before was the best time to start freelancing. And like, you know, like, the best time to plant a tree was before or whatever. And what he was basically saying is that, you know, you, you should have done this already, like kind of tough love, but if you didn't do it yet, now is the time. Like, if not now, when you know, don't wait for the next disaster. Don't wait for World War III and don't sacrifice more years of your life in a state of fear or worry or, or just discomfort and not liking your job or not liking your work situation. And, uh, but I don't really think, I don't think we're going back to like the normal nine to five the way it was before. Because the longer this drags out, the more people's habits are getting ingrained. And as soon, really the main reason we're not gonna go back to the old way is because companies are gonna realize how much money they're saving, like, let's not kid ourselves. It's not necessarily about giving people more flexibility and a better quality of life. Like it's about company profits. And once they realize they can make more money and they have to compete with all the other remote companies, I think they're gonna be really hesitant to like sign another 10 year lease in an office building.  

Johnny:    00:13:40    Yeah, definitely. In New York  

Kristin:    00:13:41    City.  

Johnny:    00:13:42    Yeah. And a lot of companies are reporting that their work at home employees now, their remote employees are just as productive or more productive sometimes than they were commuting into the office standing around the coffee pot and the, the water cooler. I know that when I worked a corporate job, I would waste in a half an hour to an hour commuting to work. And then, you know, because of that I would probably stop by McDonald's, you know, get, get a sandwich and then spend the first hour talking to my coworkers about like the last night's TV show, you know, eat my Sandwich <laugh>. And then I would probably get maybe two hours of actual productive work done throughout the day. And the rest of it was literally just, you know, searching the internet or you know, like, you know, talking to, talking to coworkers, going to meetings that are unnecessary and really just waiting until 5:00 PM so I can leave.  

Kristin:    00:14:29    Totally. And, uh, this, these are things that, you know, we've known for a while because once you get out of that situation, it's kind of like traveling for the first time. When you leave your home country for the first time, it's like your mind just opens up to all the other possibilities, all the other cultures, all the other ways of life that there are. And you realize that your former ethnocentric perspective is not the best way. 'cause there is no best way, there is no best country, you know, there is no best culture or best place. It's like everyone's just different. And so you can't unsee this, like, now that the veil has been lifted and everybody knows, like the employees know, the employers know. how do you go back to the other way? Because, you know, there, I have seen some, some quote, like some studies coming out this week, even I think Monday.com just had a study and they said that, I forget the percentage, but it was like 20 or 30% of people, oh no, maybe it was even 40% of people said that they missed their coworkers and they were experiencing this kind of trauma, this like separation anxiety from their office.  

Kristin:    00:15:33    But I think that that's temporary. I think that's because we start going to school when we're three or four years old, and then we're in that system for so long that for everyone overnight who's in like their thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, to like, all of a sudden their entire paradigm comes crashing down. Yeah. There's going to definitely be a period of like recovery and like mourning and grieving your old life, even if you didn't like commuting to work or you, you know, even if there were a lot of downsides to your job. Like I think there's that, that connection there. It's just gonna take some time for things to heal. And, um, you know, this many years out since you first went to Thailand, it's like you can't ever go back to the office after that. And, and I actually first moved to Costa Rica because I had a burnout in grad school at 21. And so if I hadn't have had that burnout, I would've taken a high stress corporate job coming out of grad school, you know, from an MBA program. And my life would've gone in a totally different direction. So by complete sheer luck and accident, I never got stuck in that paradigm. But for people who've been in it for a long time, it's gonna take some time for adjustment. But I think that once they get in their comfort zone and their new comfort zone, they won't wanna go back.  

Johnny:    00:16:48    Yeah. I, I definitely agree. And I think as remote workers or digital nomads, a lot of us, you know, even though our lives have changed, like I, I liked to go work at a cafes and sometimes I would switch it up. I would go to a co-working space one day, or a cafe, you know, two different coffee shops one day, maybe go cowork with friends. And then now I'm working, you know, I'm like, okay, do I wanna work on my balcony or do I wanna work for my room or do I wanna work from the kitchen? And so that has changed, but the work has been the same. You know, I worked from the same laptop that I've been using since 2013 <laugh>, and I'm using the same tools. You know, I already use Zoom. I already use Slack. I, I already use everything on the cloud, so I've never had to, to, to change anything yet. These are things that a lot of companies or a lot of people had no idea even existed until now.  

Kristin:    00:17:35    Yeah. And I've been writing about remote work for a couple years now, but it's been really surreal to see just like other people coming out of the, the woodwork talking about, you know, the same stuff. And, and sometimes it's people who, or people who I knew personally who worked for really big companies and I would talk to them like, Hey, why don't I come in and do a workshop to help your, they work in hr, for example. I'm like, let me come in and talk to the human resources team about remote work policies, you know, I can, I can give you some information about that. And they were just like rejecting it. You know, they, everybody resisted remote work for so long and there's a lot of reasons for that and why it's been going on for the past 50 years. But yeah, I think it's good that that companies were forced into it because if this hadn't happened, and of course we don't want anyone to be sick, we don't want anyone to die.  

Kristin:    00:18:26    Like, we don't want the economy to collapse globally. Like we don't want any of the negative things that are happening. But one of the silver linings definitely is that companies that might have waited 20 years to let people work remotely or 10 years, they have to do it now. And so I think that long term that's going to completely transform the quality of people's lives for the better when they can move closer to their family members or move somewhere with a lower cost of living or have less stress 'cause they don't have to commute or like all the other benefits of, uh, remote work. So even though there's downsides of remote work as well, like, I think that as a general global population and the whole society of the planet is going to benefit from this when the dust settles.  

Johnny:    00:19:10    Yeah, I definitely agree. And it's not that every digital nomad or remote worker has, uh, their business, you know, a hundred percent, uh, the same. Um, I know for me personally, some of my income streams have, uh, gone down a bit and some of them have gone up. So for me it's, it's been pretty balanced. And, uh, you posted in your article a poll by Johannes, uh, from Nomad Cruise in, in the Facebook group that asked, how did CVID 19 affect your business? Let us know on the poll. And this was really specifically geared towards, uh, freelancers, but you know, really this was kind of applies to a lot of digital nomads and entrepreneurs. Uh, so out of 200 people, more or less, uh, a hundred said nothing's changed. So pretty much exactly half said, nothing at all has changed. And then, uh, 69 said, I lost some clients.  

Johnny:    00:20:00    Uh, we don't really know what that means. I mean, maybe that means a little like, did they take a 10% pay cut or a 50% pay cut? We have no idea. Uh, and 27 said, I lost all my clients. Uh, and kind of the rest was 50 50. You know, some people had the projects, pause, some actually got more work than ever some of them. And, but very, very few lost over half their clients. Only three out of 200 something people lost more than half their clients and only 27 lost all their clients. So 30 out of 200. So 15% of people were very negatively impacted, but other 85, either nothing had changed or they took a small pay hit, but it wasn't, it, it, it wasn't, uh, that big of a deal yet. And, and to me, when I saw that, I I was very impressed.  

Kristin:    00:20:46    Yeah. It's probably probably the exact inverse of what is happening in the physical economy. And, um, what I found interesting about that, or I think like one of the insights I took away from that, because I've done polling before as to how do people support themselves as digital nomads. And I know you have with Nomads Summit, so maybe you can comment with more detail, but just in the Facebook groups that I've pulled in, like 90% of people are self-employed digital nomads. Like, then the rest of them have, maybe it was 80% and then like 10% have online businesses of some kind. And then even like, less than 5% had full-time remote jobs. Like it was mostly people that were self-employed. And so when I saw Johannes Poll and then I heard the people on Travel Like a Boss and I, I could sense the calmness in their voices and like their just state of mind was a totally different place than you would see if you turn on the news or look at Twitter or something, or social media.  

Kristin:    00:21:43    And I think it's because digital nomads, uh, freelancers, independent workers, we have this sense of self where even if our revenue gets cut off, which mine did most of it, we have this kind of self-confidence and abundance mindset that we know we can figure out new revenue streams. Like, it doesn't matter if you take all of our revenue streams away, we will just literally start over with something else. And if we don't know how to do it, we'll learn and we all will have like a bunch of projects that we wanna work on Anyway. So I lost like, I think I said 75% of my income because I've, I've had a relocation company since 2011. So it's all travel and the borders are closed. Like my main destinations are Canada and in Europe and in Costa Rica and they're all shut down and Mexico and in like, play Del Carmen, you can't even drive to Cancun right now.  

Kristin:    00:22:36    So, um, yeah, so I just basically made a show reel of video stuff. I mean, I took a skill inventory like, okay, what are, what are the skills that I want to monetize? What am I good at? What do people need? And then I just updated my LinkedIn posted on Facebook in the first day. I got a $3,000 video editing job the first day. Yeah. Congrats. So like, it just ma doesn't matter that I don't have, you know, my resume didn't say video before, like it was travel and, but you know, when you have a bunch of different revenue streams, you can just spend more attention on those or you can create new ones. And I think that's the kind of growth mindset that so many digital nomads have. And and that's what I saw in that poll too.  

Johnny:    00:23:21    Yeah. And also skill sets. I think a lot of entrepreneurs or digital nomads, we are forced to be a one person or small team show where we're forced to learn a lot of skills. You know, I'm not a video editor, but I just happened to know how to edit videos 'cause I had to do it. 'cause I don't have someone I could just give it to. And I, I don't wanna pay someone $150 an hour to do. So I learned how to video edit. I'm also not a, you know, a a web developer, but I can create WordPress websites and edit them because, you know, I have to have a website for, for myself, and I don't wanna pay someone, you know, $75 an hour to do it or have to wait, you know, 24 hours for them to make the change. So I think as digital nomads and these, you know, small business owners, we've been forced to learn a lot of different skills.  

Johnny:    00:24:05    And then at this point where we're like, okay, well now I can't have in-person conferences anymore. What can I do instead? And, you know, one easy thing was, I, I could say, well, do I wanna have a online conference instead? Or do I wanna focus on my YouTube channel? Do I wanna focus on my writing? Do I wanna focus on getting freelance clients? Do I want to video edit for people? Do I want to, uh, you know, translate for people? Like what do I want to do? Yeah. And we have so many options versus if someone had a normal nine to five job and all they did every day was, you know, whatever x, y, Z task, maybe they don't have a big skill set where, you know, they haven't had the time to explore and learn other things, so they actually don't know what else to do.  

Kristin:    00:24:43    Yeah, definitely. Uh, I, I was going through what I could do and I looked at voiceover website. Yeah. There's like this whole voice acting thing and I'm like, well, I have the, all the audio equipment now. You know, it's like whatever skills you have, you can then make money doing that. And it, it's okay if you start at even low price stuff, like in a pinch. I think not just digital nomads, but everybody, if they had to and they knew how to make money online, they could do it. Like I just saw on Airbnb, they're doing virtual experiences now when it used to be like, you know, photography tours and cooking classes and whatever in different cities. Now it's online, so it's almost like Twitch mixed with Teachable or Udemy or something. And they're charging people like anywhere from $1 to $20 to attend these live streams, virtual experiences.  

Kristin:    00:25:36    So any skill you have, I saw a guy on there who was just laughing, like he was just laughing in a live stream and people were paying to go laugh with him. Like, if you can laugh, you can have an Airbnb experience and monetize it. Like any skill that you have, you can make some money at it. And once you make your first $1 or your first $9 and you're doing translation or you're doing customer service or you're doing a a live stream on how to make cinnamon rolls on Airbnb, that's the, the spirit that everybody should cultivate and that everybody would benefit from. Because the first thing you do, you're gonna keep getting more ideas and then you're gonna end up having yeah. All of these skills where you can do translation and you can do video editing and, you know, maybe long term it's not the best strategy to be a generalist, but in a time of emergency and crisis, just to have the self-confidence to go out and say, yeah, I can write that blog post for you. I can optimize that video. You know, I can do, I can produce your podcast for you. I can produce this sales animated video, or whatever it is. It's like, boom. And you don't even need to go to the freelancing websites because you can just start with your friends. Just go down your Facebook friends list and just message everybody, Hey, do you need anything <laugh>? And you'll, you'll be surprised.  

Johnny:    00:26:53    Yeah, I definitely agree that, you know, we have, we as entrepreneurs and kinda online, uh, business owners, we have a vast amount of skill sets that we can either, you know, diversify it or just even pivot and just say, you know what? I've always wanted to learn how to do this. Or you know what, I've always kind of left this part of my business, uh, gro maybe this is the time I, I can focus on it. And a lot of business owners I know they just like pivoted with products. Even so, uh, I know a lot of friends in the e-commerce space where they have, you know, online stores drop shipping stores that sell, you know, x, y, Z item. And maybe that item right now is not selling very well, but they have a store, they have a website, they have the tools and knowledge, so they're like, well, okay, what is selling?  

Johnny:    00:27:35    Well? So some people started selling face masks, some people started selling, you know, d like different like homemade ones or if they can source it, you know, proper face masks, you know, and it went from a store selling, you know, like purses to <laugh> like selling, you know, items. And it, it's just such a simple transition where I think these are things that, you know, people, once they hit a crisis, they can either think my life is ruined, I don't know what to do, there's nothing I can do. I'm just gonna sit here and watch Tiger King eat ice cream order dominoes and you know, complain, complain about how everything's bad. Or you have the other side. And I think this is the majority of, of digital Nomas that I know personally is they're like, oh man, I have all this free time now I have no excuses why I can't do this project. Lemme just sit down hustle. Let me, let me figure something else out.  

Kristin:    00:28:22    Yeah, that's a really good point. And you just made me think of another thing I should have put in here is that you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And when you surround yourself with like-minded people, like when you're going to Nomad Summit or when you're going to Nomad Cruise, or when you're joining a mastermind with other digital nomads, um, you're just going to elevate yourself even more even joining the Facebook groups. I mean, those are great communities. There's so many, there's the Reddit threads, like when you're around other self-motivated people who are either already digital nomads or who are aspiring to do that and they have big goals and dreams for their life, then that raises the vibration of everybody else. Even if it's remotely, you know, we're all connected. And so that's probably part of it too. I,  

Johnny:    00:29:09    I agree. But definitely it depends on which Reddit thread or which Facebook group you're in, because there is a lot of negativity online. And that's why I like in-person events, especially paid events, whether it's the Nomad Cruise or the Nomad Summit, if someone, even if someone's paying a hundred bucks or 200 bucks to attend something, they are so much more motivated and more optimistic and like normally successful. Like the, the, I think the reason why all my friends, I mean literally outta hundreds of people who I know they're all, you know, know in this positive mindset is because I meet them at these, you know, mostly paid events where everyone's like, yeah, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm gonna invest 500 in myself to learn to grow, to network. And versus in the random Facebook groups that I've, I posted your article in, uh, to ask kind of for questions.  

Johnny:    00:29:59    That's where I got a lot of the other side kind of the, I don't wanna say the negativity, but the, the not so optimistic side. You know, um, lemme take a look. A couple of them. So, uh, Maya says she has a lot of friends who are nomad in hostels and had to spend two to three times more money now on a private flat. Uh, 'cause the hostels gonna shut down or they can't be around that many people. And you know, some people, you know, she's like, I'm happy that your fellow nomads are surviving this period better than mine l Well, and I read that and I was like, I don't know any digital nomads who are living outta hostels, like, you know, maybe for a night or two when they're traveling. But, and I realized there's probably a lot of digital nomads quote who are really just backpackers that are just traveling as quickly as possible, living as cheaply as possible. And their budget for combination isn't a thousand dollars a month or 600 a month, it's maybe $3 a day or something where whatever the cheapest possible accommodation is. And they're not in a situation where they can say, you know what? I'm gonna be stuck here for a month. I need a productive place with good, good internet, uh, you know, a a place I can, you know, some space I can stretch out. So I'm gonna spend 500 or a thousand or, you know, 1500 bucks this month on a nice Airbnb somewhere comfortable. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:31:09    Actually, I mean, it's a opportunity for those people too. I wouldn't consider the people that she's referring to digital nomads, I would say they're just backpackers, you know, not even digital backpackers, like they're just people like traveling on their savings, which is something that humans have been doing forever. But if they wanna be digital nomads, this is the perfect time because they should raise their standards of what they can create for themselves. Like what if they said, I don't wanna live on $5 a day or $10 a day. What if I made another goal that I wanna make a hundred dollars a day? And that they, you know, if they're stuck somewhere, then this is their opportunity to try something new and to try to actually like, make real money so that they can travel longer. Because eventually that money runs out. You know, we've met a lot of people that just quit their jobs and went to go travel for three months or six months or one year, but then when the money runs out, they have to go back to their old life.  

Kristin:    00:32:01    And then there can be this like post travel dip or depression or crash that happens. So I think that that's also an opportunity for them. And, um, and yeah, and you made another good point about the communities. I think my entire digital nomad online community is made up of people and groups that I met in real life. So at Nomad Cruise, at Nomad Summit, or just my own personal group. And it's really positive, actually. I rarely have to kick anybody out, but yeah, probably that is the, a distinct difference between like just Reddit, <laugh>.  

Johnny:    00:32:34    Yeah. I actually, I don't post on Reddit at all because any, like, I'm almost shocked if I go on a Reddit thread and I don't see people like spewing hate or conspiracy theories or, you know, just making things up or just finding like the, the negative things about, about, you know, any, anything or anyone. Um, so I think that we need to define what a digital nomad actually is because you made a good point where a lot of, so-called digital nomads are really just backpackers or travelers or expats or, you know, or something else. And people like the term digital nomad. 'cause it sounds cool and it's, it's something that maybe they aspire to do. But a digital nomad, uh, I defined it on, on a blog post. What is a digital nomad is simply someone who earns a living online location independently and travels with no permanent home base, but moves about from place to place, usually seasonally or in search of better X, Y, z whether it's y you know, traditional nomads would do it based on food or, you know, or shelter. Digital nomads. I think we do it on based on, you know, events or, you know, it could be, it could be, you know, food like, you know, we really want to go to Italy for the summer for, for food, but usually we're, we're moving around, you know, slowly, or some people do a bit quicker, but based on something better, whether it's a better life, better weather, better community, better cost of living, what do you think  

Kristin:    00:33:52    About that? Yeah. Better cost of living better, um, also sports. So events that are digital nomad related, and then also other related or to be near friends and family and stuff like that. I would define it the same, but I also have come to decide, I guess in my own personal life that being a digital nomad is a, is a mindset. Because I think after doing it for, like, I've been living abroad since I was 20 pretty much full time. And then there are times that I come back to the US for like three months or six months, and sometimes I even will have a home base. Like I had a home base for two years in North Carolina, even though I was only there like six months a year. And then I had a home base for like a year in Florida, even though I was there like less than six months.  

Kristin:    00:34:37    And I, I rented it on Airbnb when I wasn't there. Um, but I mean, in general, I don't have really any material possessions. I don't have furniture. Like even when I have a home base, it's like a temporary home base. But I do think that even if like Johannes also, he signed a, a one year lease, I think in Myorca. So I think that even if you're a digital nomad and you decide like, I just wanna be an expat and have a home base for a while um, or forever, but you keep traveling and you keep being able to work remotely and generate your income from wherever you are. I think you're still technically a digital nomad. You know, you're just like, your pace of travel will change and it will slow down as you get older, I think. But we haven't had enough years to study it. But I think that's starting to happen now that there's people who've been doing it for like 10, 15 years, 20 years even.  

Johnny:    00:35:25    Yeah, I definitely agree that there's a, there's a range and it doesn't mean that someone can't have a home base. I know a lot of people want to have a place, you know, to keep their stuff or that they, they know they can go back to any time. Um, but at the same time, it, it is a fine line between if you've been in Chiang Mai for the last three years and you haven't been anywhere else, are you really digital nomad or are you just living in Chiang Mai? You know, and you, you happen to be working online. Uh, maybe you're an expat or if someone is, you know, moving around every three days to a different, different city or a different beach and they have a travel blog, but they're not making any money from it, but  

Kristin:    00:36:03    They don't make money. <laugh>  

Johnny:    00:36:04    <laugh>, are they a digital nomad either, you know, and honestly, I'm not here to, to judge anyone's life, but we are here to try to dive in deeper on deeper why some people, you know, are thriving during this time and why some people are struggling, you know, and again, you know, not people who physically got sick or in immediate danger or, you know, something traumatic has actually happened. But for the most people who I'm gonna try off this, this ice cream.  

Kristin:    00:36:33    Oh yeah. What is that?  

Johnny:    00:36:34    <laugh>? So that's, uh, someone serenading me playing for Elise. Uh, but it's actually the garbage truck here when they drive by instead of them, uh, you know, everyone leaving their garbage cans outside, you know, for rats to come and just, it's unsightly in the smells. You just keep the garbage in your house until the garbage truck drives by and you go out and you just throw the bag directly in the back. And they do the same in Taiwan as well.  

Kristin:    00:36:58    I have never seen that and I haven't been to Sri Lanka or Taiwan, so that's probably why. But that's a really good idea. Yeah,  

Johnny:    00:37:05    Actually it was in Taiwan. I think they, they did it because they had a big problem with, with trash and, you know, and rodents and things like that. And they just overnight, they're like, okay, we're doing this now twice a week. When you hear the, the for lease go outside. And they, Taiwan is one of the most, the cleanest countries in the world now. People  

Kristin:    00:37:22    Are so adaptable and yeah. And apparently Taiwan was good with the, with the coronavirus too, but, Yeah. You know, like, there's just so much negativity around this whole pandemic that, I don't know, we don't need to contribute anymore to that negative stuff. I think we need to bring the hope and the positivity and the possibilities that can come out of it, uh, because just not that many people in the mainstream are saying it. But I have seen more, like as time goes on, I've seen more people kind of feeling confident enough to talk about the positive side. But even I had two, two blog posts on Medium for one, I didn't publish for a whole month because it, it's, it's something like about the silver lining of the pandemic because I was afraid to publish it basically. And, and like after two weeks, so two weeks into this shutdown, I submitted it to a publication, it got rejected.  

Kristin:    00:38:15    So I was like, oh, I'm still off base because I'm saying good things could happen. And I had like this whole list of questions we can link to that in the show notes too, just to make people think like, what's the other perspective? And then I finally just published it on my own page a couple days ago. 'cause I was like, whatever. And then I got like people messaging me on Facebook, like, thank you for posting that. Can I share it? Can I translate it into French? Like, wow. People wanted to spread like positive vibes. And, um, and I, I feel like a, like a personal duty to society that if I have experienced something and I have some knowledge that can, I can share and give like kind of another perspective from the future or, you know, what's possible? Then I need to talk about it.  

Kristin:    00:38:57    Because for a long time when I lived in Costa Rica and Nicaragua doing real estate as an expat, so I was physically dependent on being there. Um, I was not like, I was happy and I had a good life and everything, but what I realized after is like, the thing that was missing is that there really like wasn't social media then to even share about it. Like, I didn't even have Instagram yet, and I just got a Facebook account in 2008. And so I had already been living down there since like 2003 or something. So like there wasn't a way for me to express what I was doing or share like that you could actually go and live in these countries and make good money and not have to be in the rat race. And then once social media blew up, I felt like if I talked about it, it was bragging. So now I just feel like, yeah, like we've gotta just share all the information that we have so that people have other things to model after, besides just the like doomsday scenarios.  

Johnny:    00:39:56    Yeah. I I definitely a hundred percent not anyone, I a hundred percent agree with this. And that's why I'm such an advocate for being optimistic and sharing what actually works. And I, I do think that, you know, we do have to caveat or, you know, spend the, the minute saying, you know, if, you know, if this doesn't apply or it's not possible in your current situation, then you know, I am sorry, but this is for the other 99% of people. And this is the same with the, the articles right now that, you know, like the one you had just posted or the quote that's been going around, uh, where says, you know, if you don't get outta this quarantine with more knowledge, a new skill or side hustle started, you never lack time. You lack discipline. And the thing is, so many people read that and was like, yes, I'm gonna get off by the couch.  

Johnny:    00:40:39    I'm, you know, I'm gonna pause Netflix, stop binge watching, I'm gonna put down this, you know, this three pound bag of chips, and I'm gonna go work out at home. I'm gonna go, you know, read a book or I'm gonna do something yet cancel culture comes in and says, you know, like, no, this is wrong because there's people who are suffering and this is a pandemic and it's okay to suffer and struggle, you know, during this time. Which is also true. But the problem is by putting that fighting out there, so many people who were able-bodied and able minded were like, yeah, you know what? They're right. I, you know, I can suffer. I, you know, I do, I, you know, I can't, I am struggling right now. Let me put it back on Netflix. Let me, let me grab the, the chips again. You know, let me, you know, I have an excuse or a reason and you know, now to just not do anything. And I think this is while you are maybe helping or making it okay for the 1% of people, or maybe 3% of people who really are struggling and, and have no way out. Maybe we're, you know, helping them feel better about themselves and the situation, but we're ruining the other 97% of people who could have got off their butt and did something.  

Kristin:    00:41:44    Yeah. And I actually saw an article where someone said, you know, you're looking for an excuse to not be productive. And I think those naysayers and doomsdayers, I feel bad for them because I feel like that's how they personally feel that they can't get it together right now. And there's some people that are suffering more, even like, if they're not physically suffering, they're just in a mental and emotional place that's not good right now. You know, they're worse off than others. But what is gonna change that, you know, uh, like is eating like Cheetos on the couch for 23 days and watching Tiger King gonna make it better? No. And that's what I'm most worried about is the people who don't get off the couch, they're gonna feel a hundred times worse when this is over compared to before it started because it's just like a negative spiral.  

Kristin:    00:42:35    And, and if you're an able bodied, able minded human being right now who's not on a ventilator in the hospital, then there is hope for you. Like you can get out and live for the people who can't. A bunch of people died, you know, hundreds, how many, like a hundred thousand or something died. So it's like, this is the wake up call to start living. And it's like exercise. Like if you, let's say you start exercising one day and then you get energy and you exercise for a few days, but then you muscles feel sore and then like one day you're too tired to work out and then all of a sudden, like another week goes by and you didn't work out. Like if you just kept going, you would keep getting more energy, you would keep feeling better. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. But when you don't move your body and you're staying inside all day and you're not getting in nature and you're not doing anything productive, you're not using your brain and, um, you're eating bad food and then you're drinking.  

Kristin:    00:43:29    'cause alcohol consumption went up by like 200%. I saw something like that then like the outcome is gonna be really bad when, when things kind of fall back into place. And so I think if at this point everyone has had a sufficient amount of time to like mourn and grieve and stay in bed watching Tiger King, which actually I watched part of it, I watched half of Tiger King, but it was so disturbing that I stopped watching it. I was like, I'm in such a positive mindset right now. I don't even wanna watch this <laugh>. So yeah, like, I don't know, I don't think anyone has a choice. Like, if you feel bad right now and you're sad, then I like, okay, like experience that, feel that sadness, but then get up because we need you. Like the world needs everyone to step up right now. We need you to bring your skills, we need you to bring your creativity, we need you to create new products, new businesses, new services. Like this is the time. Like this is like the time we've all been waiting for. Like it's happening right now. So everyone get up. <laugh>, please  

Johnny:    00:44:31    Get up. I like that. I, I do like that. And I, and I and I made a video about this on YouTube channel. It, it kind of, you know, explaining it, saying like, if you need help, get help, ask for it. 'cause people people aren't gonna know that you need help if you don't ask for it. You know? And, and there's so many programs, so many people who are willing to help right now, whether it's financially, 'cause you don't have money to, for food or if you're depressed or if you're anxious and you need to talk to someone, ask for that help. You know, and don't feel bad about it because some other people are thriving their lives have nothing to do with yours. Yeah. But for 99% of people out there, they're just being fucking lazy right now. <laugh>, like, and then they're just using this as an excuse to do nothing and, you know, feel bad about themselves and worry and, and be anxious for no reason.  

Johnny:    00:45:14    I mean, most people, it's not really negative affecting us. I mean, it's, this is a crisis. This is a worldwide pandemic. But if you think about it, this is the easiest disaster we'll probably ever go through for most of us. You know, most of us have food, most of us shelter, most of us have running water, most of us have internet. If you're watching this, you probably have internet. I mean, think about it as, imagine if you were, you know, on Castaway, right? And you're lost on a desert island like Tom Hanks was, but you could still FaceTime your family and say, Hey, you know, I miss you <laugh>. Let's, let's talk for an hour. You know, you can, you have a group chat with everybody, you know, you have food, you know, a groceries being delivered, you have shelter, you have running water. Yeah. It would still suck to be cast away on this, you know, on this island by yourself, but wouldn't it be that bad?  

Kristin:    00:46:00    Yeah, totally. And nobody is judging anyone right now. Like, you can do whatever you want. You can launch stuff, go live stream. Like all of that fear that we used to have, that people were watching us or they were judging us, like that's out the window. Nobody's paying attention to what, I mean, they might be watching more live streaming or like consuming more content right now. But everybody is in like, I think a more forgiving mood, like a more accepting mood. So it's like if you go out there and mess up a bunch of stuff, people are just gonna be like, okay, cool. Like you went for it. Yeah. You know, if that, 'cause they're all like distracted with all the other things going on. So I think now is a good time to do it if you've ever felt so self-conscious about anything. And, um, yeah, like, we're not at war.  

Kristin:    00:46:44    I mean, the knowledge that people are suffering shouldn't make you suffer into perpetuity. You know, there people who have been in really bad situations throughout history, human history and, um, there were, they were in physical danger. You know, think about your brain is just trying to keep you safe. But when you look around you, this is something I've learned in meditation and I've learned in Vipassana, is that, you know, is anything actually happening to you right now? And I have to say this to myself sometimes because, you know, we all get like anxiety or whatever. I have to be like, okay, are any of these things that I'm thinking of or afraid of? Are any of them happening right now? You know, like, am I in my house and they're evicting me and I have no food? And like, you know, like whatever the worst case scenario is, and I've also learned this through stoicism.  

Kristin:    00:47:34    So the stoics, the stoic philosophers had a lot of money. It was like the Roman emperor and his consultants and you know, these were all like the highest echelon of people 2000 years ago. And they would practice losing everything. They would eat only stale bread for like weeks. They would sleep on the floor with like nothing, just like on the dirt floor. And they realized that they could survive. And so that's the thing is like we have all the comforts of home right now. We're safe, we have food, we have water, we have toilet paper, we have Amazon Prime. Like, we're really only suffering in our minds for the most part. Yeah. So if you can cut yourself off from exposure to all of the fear mongering and just think about what do you wanna happen when the, when the quarantine is lifted, like the, the faster you start digging yourself out of the hole now, the easier it's gonna be later.  

Kristin:    00:48:25    And you can't just give up. There is no giving up you just eventually we all die, you know? And we leave. But until then, as long as you're alive and kicking and breathing, like, keep going. I actually just Googled this today 'cause there's an avocado tree outside my house. <laugh>. It takes 10 to 15 years for avocados to start coming off the tree. Wow. Because the, the landlord wants to cut it down. And I was like, what have you spent 10 years? with this avocado tree. And it didn't have avocados yet. And you cut it down and you're just like, yeah, no, I'm done. I'm not gonna wait anymore for these avocados. Like, you would never have them, but if you waited like another month, it would start growing avocados. Like, that's the thing is you just have to, you have to start at some point. 'cause how are you gonna feel 10 or 15 years from now? Like, you're not gonna feel any better if you don't take action on something. Now. I,  

Johnny:    00:49:14    I agree. And e even, even like the, on a smaller scale, we could either come outta this quarantine in war shape, you know, physically and mentally, or we can come out kind of ready. And with a good foundation, you know, maybe you're not gonna get in the best shape of your life working out a home versus, you know, having a gym and, and a personal trainer. But we have such good technology now. There's YouTube, you know, we can learn how to do anything. And if you have a floor and a wall, you can do pushups. You can do handstands. And right now, no one's gonna judge you, as you said. Like, I've been learning how to handstand and I made a video of me just failing and falling. And everybody's so supportive right now because they're like, Johnny's trying handstands good for him. And, you know, like, it, it's, it's such a nice time we live in right now where I can have this virtual background and I can notice this bottle becomes transparent.  

Johnny:    00:50:04    And nobody's like, oh, ha ha, Johnny's, you know, like, his video's messed up. They're just like, oh, you know, that's cool that he tried to do that <laugh>. Like, because it, it's, nobody's judging each other right now. And, and I think we, we think other people care so much, but they really don't. And we all, and I think that one of the big problem is so many people are outraged for others that aren't even upset or outraged. That it's creating this culture, this cancel culture really, of saying like, yeah, you can't try to help anyone, or you can't, you can't do good for yourself even because the 1% of people out there who aren't even watching this stream are suffering because they're on a ventilator. If you're on a ventilator, you're not watching this right now. Like, I, I feel bad, I hope you get through it. But the people watching this right now are on a thousand dollars smartphone or a laptop with the internet probably somewhere comfortable on a couch. And they're like, yeah, I probably should get off my butt. Uh, you know, but this, this other person on Reddit said, it's okay that you're struggling because we're going through a pandemic right now. Screw that person. <laugh>. Like, that person doesn't care about you. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:51:06    Yeah. They, yeah. They don't know. They're just rage tweeting into the thin air. They don't care who sees it.  

Johnny:    00:51:12    Well, they just wanna pull the people down so they can feel better about themselves and why they're not doing anything.  

Kristin:    00:51:17    Yeah. And but when you, when you start doing things, and it might be a long road. Yeah. You know, the, the, the road to personal growth, it doesn't end. This is a process, not the outcome. This is a journey, not a destination. You've all heard it, but like, like what? I love that you said handstand because, um, one of the things that people are getting time to do right now is pick up creative hobbies and things that they always wanted to do, the ones that are taking action. Right. And I saw that the, um, Peter levels, the founder of Nomad List tweeted this the other day that, um, course sales for music production had like quadrupled on one of his friends online stores. And I was like, wow, what if the actual inner nature and like reversion to the mean of human beings is a creative pursuit that would make so much sense.  

Kristin:    00:52:08    And if, if anyone has read the Artist's Way, that book, that will explain everything, the author of that book thinks that everybody is an artist and everybody can write. And everyone's a creator, basically. Like we create our own realities. And so if creative pursuits are what everybody would do, if they had enough money to live and nothing else to do, like that's what they would choose. They would choose to learn handstands. Or for me, I signed up for, um, a dj, an online DJ course. Because what I want people to like acknowledge is that their dreams are not gonna go away. So whatever occurs to you to do, you know, for Elon Musk, it's build rocket ships <laugh>, you know, for you, you wanna learn a handstand for me, or like, you know, we wanna do podcasts, we wanna do videos.  

Kristin:    00:52:54    Like we have a lot of things in common. But then it's like, whatever you wanna learn how to do, if you wanna learn how to knit, or if you wanna know how to produce music, that's like yours to do. And I don't think that anyone ever tells us that. Like, whatever you intuitively want to do is like what you should do. And it doesn't matter. Like, I want to be a dj when I was, was using tape decks in middle school to mix music. But like, I only started doing it pretty much this year. <laugh>.  

Johnny:    00:53:19    Well, what I really like about going through this in 2020 and not in, you know, 19, 19 95 is now, and we think about it just on our computer or on our smartphone, you kinda see it now. It's invisible. Yeah. This is a smartphone <laugh>  

Kristin:    00:53:34    That looks really funny.  

Johnny:    00:53:36    It does look funny. Yeah. So on our invisible smartphones, we have so much like access to so many things that allow us to learn new skills. Right Now, not only, you know, do we have online courses or even free things like YouTube, but even like, let's say you wanna learn how to DJ 10 years ago, the excuse might be, well, I'm stuck here. I I, I can't, I can't get DJ equipment. I can't get too audio, you know, audio technical decks. Uh, or you know, I can't learn how to play piano because I don't have a piano. Now with apps, you can do all that online and a lot of it is either very low cost or it's free. And maybe it's not the same as, you know, learning how to DJ with records on a deck or playing on a grand piano. But if you were really serious about learning, you can just start there.  

Johnny:    00:54:22    You can get pretty good, you know, you can go the digital route. And then one, you know, when you come out of this, you can say, you know what, I've proven to myself that I can spend two months playing piano every day on a, on a freaking laptop, on a, on a smartphone. <laugh>, I'm serious. I'm actually gonna buy piano now. Or I'm gonna buy a guitar now. I'm gonna buy a whatever now. Versus how many people first go out and say, yeah, I'm gonna learn how to play the guitar. They go buy a guitar because, you know, we have access to buying everything. And then they never played. So I actually argue that now that we have limitations, if, and we, and we have free time, it's, we are actually in a better spot because we can just say, is this something we, we would actually do? Or is this something that we would've just bought as a consumer and then never touched again?  

Kristin:    00:55:02    Yeah. I mean, I, um, signed up for a DJ course in 2008 and it got canceled because not enough people were gonna go to it. It was in Costa Rica. And then, you know, at that time, the internet, I didn't even have internet at my house or anything. So I didn't really have that many options. I didn't look into it much more after that. But here we are in 2020 and, you know, I have no excuses. Now I'm like, well, I wanted to learn this forever. Like, if I wait another 10 years, I'll still wanna learn it then I might as well do it now. And, um, yeah. So just like, I don't know, maybe I'm like aging myself. 'cause I think we're kind of similar age, but you probably remember in elementary school going to the grocery store to get encyclopedias, right? Yeah. Are you in that age group?  

Johnny:    00:55:48    I, I read 'em there, but I didn't buy 'em. Yeah. <laugh>  

Kristin:    00:55:51    Or, well, I, I don't know if you remember, like, in the grocery store, they used to have like all the encyclopedias and you would go I think once a week. Okay. The next letter came out in the morning. Oh,  

Johnny:    00:56:01    Nice.  

Kristin:    00:56:02    Okay. So when I was a kid, if I wanted to look up information, we had the whole Encyclopedia Britannica set in my house. And I'm sure most, like, maybe a lot of American families had that, but not everybody, like, just 'cause my parents were like crazy about schooling and everything. So if I had a question for something, I would go look it up in the encyclopedia book. And if it wasn't in there or they only had a little paragraph about it, then I would have to go to the library to go get other books about it. Yeah. And like, now we have everything, like think about the guys like, like, um, Napoleon Hill and people like that from like the 1930s. They would lose it if they saw what was going on. Right Now they're like, you have access to the internet, to all of the knowledge in the entire world, and you're just blowing it, wast  

Johnny:    00:56:50    It away. You know, like, I would be so pissed. And, you know, here's the thing is right now, a lot of people have the excuse of, well, I don't, I I don't have access to the things that I would, I would need to be able to do it. Right. So for example, I'm learning how to cook right now and I really wanted to, you know, learn how to bake bread. But I don't have an oven. I don't have flour, <laugh>, you know, I don't have yeast. I don't have the basic things. I'm like, okay, well maybe I can't do that now. What else can I learn? And I think as digital nomads, one of the reasons why we're still adaptable and flexible is because we're not used. We're used to not having everything, you know? 'cause we're traveling and living in these random countries where we don't always have access to the things we want.  

Johnny:    00:57:28    The brands we want, you know, whether it is, you know, good cheese or you know, good or wine or, uh, you know, or certain electronics or certain things. We just kinda get used to it. We adapt and we're like, okay, yeah. I'm just gonna be okay with not having access to that for the next three months or six months. Versus as Westerners, you know, whether you're in the US or in, you know, Western Europe, people are so used to having everything in stock all the time and having one day delivery, two day delivery for everything that they can't adapt now. That they're like, what do you mean I can't get, you know, sourdough starter on online delivered the next day. Like, you know, this is, this is outrageous.  

Kristin:    00:58:10    Yeah. People are getting pissed that their Amazon deliveries are taking more than one day <laugh>. And I'm like, my address in Nicaragua was like five miles after the statue that got burnt down during the civil War or something. Like my address was ridiculous. There was nothing getting shipped there. And then in Costa Rica, I had to pay a courier to pick up my packages in Miami and then bring them physically to Costa Rica. And then I had to drive to an office in downtown San Jose to pick them up. It took like a month. So anytime I needed a car part for my Nissan Extera that you couldn't get in Costa Rica, I would have to wait a month to get the car part shipped. And so, like, I'm not saying like that's like a first world problem, but basically people who travel digital nomads, like we've been in a lot of crazy situations just by virtue of the lifestyle.  

Kristin:    00:59:02    And so not only are we like minimalists, we don't buy a bunch of stuff like, 'cause we can't carry it around with us. But, you know, we've all been in, we've all hit rock bottom in some way, shape or form, and sometimes in multiple ways at the same time and sometimes like multiple times in one year. And we are very, um, we have like the advantage that, um, the opportunity to travel, you know, because of the country we're from and our passport or because of how hard we worked to you know, make our businesses or whatever the reason is. So we already are grateful for like, the ability to be able to travel, but then when you travel for extended periods of time, like you just get into really bad situations. Like, and so I think that that sense of gratitude for the little things, you know, when I first moved to Costa Rica, I got pissed 'cause I couldn't find peanut butter.  

Kristin:    00:59:54    But like that was my problem in like 2002, you know? And then you get over it and then later it's like, nothing matters. You know, if you have to sleep in an airport for five days and your credit card doesn't work and people are just giving you pizza on the floor, then like, that's what you have to do. And I think we just learned to kind of like, live with it. And, and then we've also seen a lot of crazy poverty like human injustices just like unspeakable things a lot of us have witnessed. And so we know it can be worse. Yeah.  

Johnny:    01:00:29    And I, I, I think that's a really good key point is instead of complaining about how inconvenient our life is right now, we know just 'cause we've seen it and we see it all around us, you know, places we go, that life is so much worse for a lot of people. Just, even when the coronavirus isn't going around that we just don't spend any time feeling bad for ourselves. You know? And I think that's helped me and a lot of my longer term digital, my friends get through this without, you know, being depressed or being anxious. It's 'cause we've been through worse and we've s and we've seen worse and things that have either actually happened or we've been in countries, you know, where, you know, there's a civil, you know, all of a sudden there's like a, you know, military coup or something and the news is freaking out about it and everyone's, you know, panicking online about it. But we kind of look around and we're like, oh yeah, we'll get through this. It's fine. You know, you know, I'm not in any media danger, so I'll get through this. It's okay. And I think a lot of other people have never been through that at all, where they just panic has everyone else is panicking.  

Kristin:    01:01:31    Yeah. Yeah. Like, I've had like near death experiences and I've volunteered in, you know, orphanages where the kids are like selling themselves on the street. Uh, as minors. I've, um, worked in, in Nicaragua, my friends who were from the us they had like a hospital that was built in the slums in like the actual landfill. Uh, they had a school in the landfill. They had a hospital in the landfill. They had running water because so many people lived there because they were so poor. And there's also these types of cities, like trash cities in India and in Africa and in like a lot of other countries too. And so when, when you just see the way that people live and, um, you know, and they're still happy like the kids are playing in the trash and it's exploding. There's like methane gas everywhere and they're just completely covered in black soot and they're just like playing with this ball made out of trash and they're just super stoked. Like, you just can't unsee that. And I don't know, like, I've just seen too much of that stuff and I've been in too many situations where my life was definitely in danger. I've been in riot, like I've been, um, was in like a, a basement of this building and it caught on fire in London. Like I've just been in so many crazy situations that like, you know, the knowledge that other people are suffering shouldn't be anything to keep you from like, living your life to the fullest.  

Johnny:    01:02:56    Yeah. And then also just knowing that, you know it, we'll probably get through this and we're, we're, you know, as long as we get through this, we're not, and we don't die from it. And even if we did, we, we have no worries anyways. Like why worry about dying from this if there's nothing you can do to prevent it? And if we don't die from it, then we'll get through this and we'll be like, okay, well I'm through that now. Like, how did I just waste the last three months of my life worrying about it? And, and even though nothing ever actually happened to me, or did I spend three months complaining about how, you know, annoyed I am, or that I can't do what I wanna do. No. Like, we just kind of get through it. And I, I think this is the mindset that I, I really like about most digital nomads that I know is, you know, we've all had the, you know, at the very least a visa run where we had to go somewhere for, you know, 24 hours or 48 hours.  

Johnny:    01:03:43    We were sitting on an uncomfortable bus, a chicken bus or something somewhere for eight hours, <laugh>, you know, and then we're sitting on a tiny plastic stool on the ground eating, you know, maybe food that we don't want to eat, and we're just hot, we're uncomfortable for 24 hours. And then we go back to our, our normal life and we're like, oh, you know, this is so nice. I'm, I I'm glad I made that sacrifice so I can have this comfortable life on this remote beach or something, this remote island. And I think a lot of people just aren't willing to have that. They want to fly, you know, comfortable airline to that remote beach, you know, go to it. Have, you know, food brought to them and cocktails brought to them, and then they wanna fly back. A lot of people just haven't been through the struggles.  

Kristin:    01:04:21    Yeah. Then that struggle is what I think makes life, life. Like, if you don't have the bad things, what we call the bad things and the pain and the struggle, then like, you don't know when you have it good. And like, there's people that like the silver spoon mentality where they've grown up and like the lap of luxury and they have trust funds. And if that was the path to happiness, then all those people would be happy. You know, they wouldn't be on antidepressants. They wouldn't commit suicide. Like actors, actresses, like if fame and fortune and all of these things were like the path to happiness, then we would know about it. We would know that it works. Like, but that's not it. And so, these, these like human struggles. It, this connects us. Like for me, I think this is a really, um, the first way that I felt connected to the whole entire planet at the same time. Like, I don't even know if this has ever happened in the history of the planet. Like we've had pandemics before, we've had the world wars and crises or crises, but have we ever had the technology to communicate with each other while everyone was going through the same thing at the same time? No. This is the first time I think it's like a humbling experience. Yeah.  

Johnny:    01:05:31    Yeah. And I think this is a unique experience that, you know, I mean, I, I would rather not be in this situation. I would rather this end quicker. At the same time I know that me complaining about it and being un upset about it is not gonna help any, and that's why I don't, I, I don't spend any time being anxious worrying about what could happen. I don't spend any time, you know, upset that I can't get the things I want to get, you know, or that I would rather be somewhere, uh, else than I am now. And I'm also, I think, a lot of stress and trouble that people go through and, and some of it's not their fault, right? Some people just get unlucky, and I feel bad for those people, but a lot of people, they, they either put themselves in a situation where they end up getting more stressed.  

Johnny:    01:06:15    And a good example for this would be all the people who've been panic, flying to different places this, this last couple weeks last month, trying to either get somewhere better or get somewhere they'd rather be, and they stress about flights getting canceled. They stress about, you know, trying to get to the airport and having, you know, the chaos over there or having to change, you know, four, four planes and, you know, having some things get shut down, having to spend the night on a floor in an airport. And I, you know, and, and do you have, they get all this empathy from people saying, oh my God, I can't believe you went through this. Like, congrats for getting through the struggle. And then I asked them, why did you fly in the first place? And they're like, oh, well, you know, I really wanted to, you know, try to get somewhere where the lockdown wasn't happening yet, so I can have the freedom of going out. I'm like, was that worth it? Like, why did you put yourself through that? Or even I wanted to be close to my family, but they're not even close to their family because they can't see them for at least 14 days anyways, <laugh>, because they're quarantined, you know? And I'm like, why did you go through that? You should just stayed where you were.  

Kristin:    01:07:15    Yeah. And they exposed themselves to becoming carriers of the virus. And like my parents are within driving distance, they're a few hours away, but they didn't come to see me because like, why, you know, like they're, my mom works at the hospital, she could be exposed. My dad is retired. Like they're older. Like, I don't, I mean, I could get exposed to going to the grocery store here and then give it to them. Like everyone, just like you said, every, if any, if everyone really did just stay home, it would've been over a lot faster. Um, but people were, yeah, that whole airport thing was crazy and nobody knows what's going on. Like, it really is kind of an unprecedented situation. So you could be the most informed person who watches the news for 20 hours a day and like, none of it would matter <laugh> because it would change the next day. And like the p President Trump says something and then like, he changes his mind the next day. Like, it doesn't, you don't need to know about all of the things that you can't control. Yeah. Like, just focus on what you can control. How are you making a positive shift in your life? And, and I heard what you said on your podcast that you like would rather be in Banon, but you're not, but it's okay. Yeah.  

Johnny:    01:08:23    Yeah. I, I, I'm okay with it. And I think as digital nomads, we, we also, I think we're used to ha you know, being isolated or alone a lot of the time where when we talk to our parents or our family, it's through Skype or FaceTime, and we realize, hey, it's okay, you know, I'd rather see them more often, but I'm actually okay with using technology to, to be able to see their face and talk to them. And, you know, we're, and it's not convenient, but we're used to this. And I think a lot of people just aren't used to not having people around all the time or going out to do things all the time. Uh, or even just having things to do all the time. I think a lot of people, they kept themselves so busy all the time to try to avoid what's really happening in their lives, you know, and that's not healthy.  

Kristin:    01:09:09    Yeah. And if they face it, they realize it, it won't kill them in most cases. Yeah. Like sitting with that pain and facing it, you realize it's not that bad and you can get through it. And, um, I mean, I sat like, I'm so grateful that I did this January 1st for 10 days. I did like this 10 day silent retreat in Canada, or not retreat the course, I kept calling it a retreat, but silent meditation course that actually Jack Dorsey, the founder of Twitter, has done multiple times and they have them all around the world. And you usually, it's like very basic situation. Like you're sleeping on a wooden plank, you're eating beans and rice for 10 days. There's no talking, there's no nothing. And going through that and, and you realize you, they, you focus on observing the feelings that you're feeling <laugh>. And, um, you just realize like how crazy the human experience is in that way that we can change our mood so many times throughout the day that are, we have different physical pains and like sensations.  

Kristin:    01:10:10    We get a headache, like your leg is numb. Like all these different things are happening all throughout the day. And then it's like, then it's gone, it passes through, it passes away. And that's kind of just like how life is. And, and I go through it too, but like, you just have to, like, people just have to find ways to cope and like, never stop searching for that thing that's gonna work for you. Like, it might be a long journey. It might take 10 years before you're like, yeah, I think that after meditating for 5,000 days, like I'm starting to get the hang of it, you know, but you don't know when that's gonna happen. So you just have to like, you have to try and, and you can only just go from there. You know, try one thing, iterate, change something, but you can't, you can't change something you haven't started with. Like, you have to start somewhere first and then, and then make improvements for it, and then just kind of follow the journey of life, because otherwise, what else are we doing here? <laugh>? So that was the mental health side.  

Johnny:    01:11:05    Yeah. So I've actually, but yeah, I do, I was gonna say, I actually went through the pasta as well, a today meditation in the past. You did? Yeah. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. Same as you. Couldn't talk, couldn't consume anything. So no input, no, no music, no reading, nothing for 10 days. And just being forced to be by myself. I slept on a wooden bed, which is really just a raised platform with a wooden pillow, which literally just a block of wood. Uh, we had two vegetarian meals a day. It was the last one at noon, so no food after 12:00 PM and all we did was just sit there and meditate for, you know, 12 hours a day. And it sucked. Where  

Kristin:    01:11:45    Did you do it?  

Johnny:    01:11:46    I did it in the south of Thailand, in, uh, somewhere near t it's called the Jungle Temple. It's Jungle Monastery or something. It was the middle of nowhere. And it was probably the most uncomfortable thing I've ever done in my life. But that makes me know now, like, hey, if I get stuck in quarantine somewhere for 14 days and I, and I can, I have very little food and I have nothing to do, and I just have to sit there for, for, you know, 10 hours a day or 12 hours a day, I can get through it. I'm not gonna die.  

Kristin:    01:12:13    Totally. And, and like you wouldn't have that if you hadn't had that experience. You wouldn't have that experience today. Like having that perspective, because you've gone through the hard stuff, makes it easier today. So it's like the harder stuff you put yourself through, and I know that you've done a lot and a lot of digital nomads like to challenge themselves. I think at least the early adopters, which we, we, everybody who's a digital nomad now, I think is still an early adopter. I think it's just like a small, small percentage of remote workers that even are digital nomads. And that's a, was a small percent of the population. But, um, you know, we're doing intermittent fasting like you did the Muay Thai boxing, like you've done, did you do keto and fasting? like a lot of us have done. We've put our bodies and our minds through lots of weird challenges and things <laugh>. And so all of that just makes us stronger. So yeah, I recommend if, if anybody wants to go through like, the hardest thing ever that's mental, like mentally the hardest thing. It's, It's one of those silent retreats. And then you'll never be bored again though. Like, you'll never be bored.  

Johnny:    01:13:20    I, I definitely agree. And you know what? If you want to do it yourself now, I mean, this is a great time to do it, <laugh>. It's, it's hard to do alone. Uh, and it's hard to do without any guidance at all. I mean, what helped me get through it was I wasn't at home. I was, you know, in this random monastery somewhere and everyone else is doing it. So I look around and no one else is talking. I'm like, well, I guess if they can get through this, I can too. But you could technically just do it yourself. You don't need anything. I mean, you could literally just be like, all right, for the next 10 days, I'm not gonna turn on my phone. I'm not gonna turn on the news. Uh, I'm just gonna eat, you know, some fruits and vegetables in the morning and then sleep on the floor. You could do it. And this could be that, that excuse that, you know, if you've always wanted to meditate for 10 days and you never had the time, now you have the time. Everybody has the time to do it now, and it's free. It literally doesn't cost anything to do.  

Kristin:    01:14:08    Yeah. Yeah. I hope that people are getting some ideas from this. I mean, a lot of the people who, who listen to the podcast, they probably already share in this mindset, but, um, maybe the people around them, like friends and family are having a negative mindset too. And so, you know, we're also a product of our environment in a way. But it's good to enjoy your own company. And a lot of digital nomads are single. A lot of us are solo travelers. And it gets to the point where you kind of like your own company more. Like you still love other people. And like, I love all my friends and I feel like I have thousands of friends all over the world, but, but sometimes when you are like traveling with one or two people, you can be like, okay, I kind of just wanna like do my own thing again for 

Kristin:    01:14:51    a few weeks. And you can kind of go with that ebb and flow and there's, you know, digital nomads that I would meet hiking in Bulgaria and it's like, people are just going off doing their hikes one day by themselves and then the next day they're in a group with a coworking space. It's like everybody respects those boundaries. where you can go. I think from now on you can just tell people like, I'm gonna self isolate this weekend <laugh> or, or whatever. Like, I just gotta go self isolate. I'll be back in a week or something and everyone will be like, okay, bye. Like, have fun. Yeah. And they'll all understand it. Whereas before there was like more social pressure if you said no to things, people are like, why not? You know, why can't you come? But digital nomads are a lot more accepting where, you know, you show up at the coworking space 'cause you're feeling social that day. But the next day you wanna do deep work and you wanna go to a coffee shop by yourself. That's totally cool. No one takes it personally. Yeah. And so I think that's another thing that's helping us.  

Johnny:    01:15:46    Yeah. I definitely think so. And, and I think, uh, most, I, I think financially, I know a lot of people are struggling, but a lot of it is, I mean, think about it, the last five or 10 years, it's been an economic boom. I mean, you could have literally had any job and it was so easy to get some kind of job. Maybe it wasn't the job you wanted, but it was easy to get some kind of work this last five years. And if everyone had just saved up three to six months of expenses like they're supposed to do, nobody should be struggling right now. Everyone should be able to pay rent or pay their mortgage. You know, if people didn't over leverage themselves or, you know, just use all their savings for other stuff, you know, whether it's eating, you know, avocado toast or smoothie bowls or, you know, buying clothes or, you know, just like things that they didn't need, it would be okay. Because even though it feels like it's been, you know, eight months in this quarantine right now, it's what, March, April 18th. Most people have only been through this for one month and maybe two months from the very start of people talking about it. But we haven't really been affected for more than a month or so. And the fact that so many people are completely out of money already isn't the fault of coronavirus. It's the fault that people didn't think ahead to save these last five or 10 years during economic boom.  

Kristin:    01:17:01    Yeah. That's another reason why I'm not stressed out. 'cause I've always lived below my means, like always. But, so I've always saved money and you know, we've, we've kind of had to, if you're an entrepreneur like it, when it rains, it pours and then some months you might not make any money. And I also, I lived with a poker player for five years. So sometimes he would lose thousands of dollars in one day and he'd be like, yeah, can I borrow some money? You know? And then like the next year he'd be like, oh yeah, I just won this tournament for $800,000 or something. So it's like, there's this like ebb and flow. And so if you just always live below your means, whether you have a remote job or a traditional job, then yeah. On a rainy day, like you, you're okay.  

Kristin:    01:17:43    And you don't have to like, wait for the government to send you a $1,200 check, which I actually just got mine, which is cool. Like, that's a bonus. But like, you don't wanna be in the situation where you're depending on, um, government welfare if at all possible. And like, I know that some people have like specific circumstances, but my dad worked in government and he always taught me growing up, like, just pretend it's not there. Pretend there is no government safety net so that you never have to use it. And so I feel really grateful that, that he told me that.  

Johnny:    01:18:12    Yeah, exactly. I, I've been the same way. I mean, people used to say like, Johnny, you made $10,000 this month. Why are you living in this piece of crap $250 a month apartment? And I'm like, because that's all I need. Like, I, I don't need a nicer place and I'm okay with, you know, spending a thousand dollars a month and saving the other 9,000 for a rainy day or for my future or for my investments or even to be able to help my parents when during this time, you know, like I've been saving my parents money every month now that they're not working. And I'm comfortable knowing that my expenses are super low here in Sri Lanka because I chose to live in these cheaper places. And I chose to sort of, I mean, even here, I could just order food every day. I'm very lucky that some of the western restaurants are open.  

Johnny:    01:18:54    So I could order pizza and burgers and smoothie bowls and coffee delivery every day. But with the minimums, I'm like, I don't wanna spend $15 every time I order lunch when I can just eat Sri Lankan food that I cooked myself for a dollar 50. And it, it's these sacrifices and these choices that I'm not only making now, but I've made for the last five years that allow me to be in a position. You know, and many of us digital nomads in a position where we're like, yeah, we're used to bootstrapping and living cheaply while sometimes earning a lot of money and sometimes earning nothing that I'm okay with this. Even if it goes on for the next year, I wouldn't like it, but I'll be okay with it.  

Kristin:    01:19:31    Yeah. And we don't, like I wrote in the article, we don't identify so much with a job title, um, or, or how much money we have or like what car we drive or where we live. because like, we don't live anywhere. Our money goes up and down. We know that that is not who we are. It's just money. And we do lots of random things for work. And we have lots of different jobs. So I think that we all have learned to kind of find ourselves a little bit more than we did before we had this lifestyle because we used to associate more with our external surroundings. Yeah. And if you're from the US then that's the rat race, the Joneses consumerism. Like, it's like all the like capitalist stuff. Um, and so sometimes you can pick up other people's ideas for how like they live their lives or messaging and marketing and things like that.  

Kristin:    01:20:23    And you can start to like take those on as your own when it's not like your true self and who you are. And then when you live just wherever and all of a sudden people don't see what you're doing, like your friends at home, they don't know what you're doing, they don't care what you're doing. Like you're not part of that gossip circle anymore. And then the locals in the new country, they don't know who you are. They think you're just a tourist. And then, you know, you have to go out of your way to like meet other digital nomads and expats. And so you start to like, define this sense of self that is independent of all the other stuff. 'cause like, you don't own any stuff. You don't have a car. Like, it doesn't matter what brand your clothes are and all of that just falls away.  

Kristin:    01:21:01    You don't have a resume 'cause you don't need one, you don't have a job title and you're not like this, you know, some important person at this company. Like you just make money online and live life on your own terms. And that is like the beauty of this. And that's something that everyone can, can have even if they don't leave home. Just the ability to trust yourself, to be able to support yourself online with the skills that you have and you know, like just live on your own terms, whatever that means for you. It doesn't have to have anything to do with traveling. Like Yeah. That's the opportunity here.  

Johnny:    01:21:32    I definitely agree. And, and I think a lot of, I mean, one of the kind of, um, arguments against the digital my life and the travel life is now that we're stuck for a month, a lot of people, some people are, you know, unhappy that they don't have all the stuff and the comforts of a house with things. I travel carryon only and I've been stuck here in Sri Lanka for more than two months with just what has fit my carryon bag. And I'm okay with it. Like, yeah, it'd be nice to have. For example, I don't have a TV at all. Uh, so I'm watching Netflix on my 13 inch MacBook Air from 2000 and, you know, 13. And I'm okay with it. I mean, I'd rather have a 50 inch TV and a surround sound system and a comfortable couch. But, and I'd rather have a big comfortable office chair and a big monitor.  

Johnny:    01:22:18    But at the same time, I'm so used to just having this old 13 inch laptop, I'm okay with it. And I think, you know, like while other people, let's say they get in a position where their TV breaks, their internet goes down or the, you know, they can't get whatever, whatever they, you know, they're used to or they can't afford it anymore, they, they suffer and they're like, oh my God, I, I cannot go, you know, I can't live my life without this thing. Like, I can't, you know, a lot of people can't even live their lives without having a big fancy TV in each room. I mean, that's why no average American has like three TVs in their house, even if they live alone, you know? And because I'm so used to just not having anything, I actually, if anything it does two things.  

Johnny:    01:22:57    One is it makes me okay with not having anything and having less, but second, physically I have more space. So even though I'm not in a big room, I'm in a, just a normal sized bedroom just because I have so little things. I have like the peace of mind and the clarity of every day waking around, you know, walking around, just not having that clutter. Versus if I lived back in the US and I had stuff everywhere in a closet foreclosed and I had nowhere to put anything, I would probably feel more claustrophobic, uh, than I do now.  

Kristin:    01:23:26    Yeah. Whenever I go back to, um, my parents' house, 'cause I left stuff there and I used to have a storage unit, like on and off I have had one or not had one. And it is so stressful to know that you have stuff in like, places. Like I, I once had stuff at my ex-boyfriend's house. I had stuff in the storage unit. I had stuff at my parents' house. I had stuff in my apartment in Costa Rica and I was subletting it. And it's like, that is just baggage weighing you down. So like, I haven't really like bought new clothes or anything in so, in so long. 'cause I had so many, like I could literally not do laundry for six months and I'd probably have enough clothes. I mean, I'd probably run out of like underwear and socks and stuff. But like, you know, like most people have like a walk-in closet full of stuff and access to all the food and everything.  

Kristin:    01:24:13    And like, there's no need to hoard things. It's like, just like let go of all of that stuff because Yeah. Like I actually am, I feel lucky that I'm here, that I have my office, like all my home office equipment. But, but like I was saying in your other podcast, um, and like the one minute recording I sent in, I would be okay anywhere. Like I, I, I could be there, you know, when we went to Bulgaria, I remember thinking that a rent was like 200 euro a month or something. Yeah. And the furniture was like not that comfortable and I didn't have an oven. And like there was basically, it was a very minimalist apartment, very rustic. But I ended up extending my stay there and then going back again the next year. So it's like even living on the least amount of money that I had lived on the whole entire year in like the least fancy apartment, I actually felt better. Like had more peace of mind, more comfort and you know, we were just going to the market like buying a bunch of food for $10 and stuff and that's fine. Yeah.  

Johnny:    01:25:12    And I think a lot of, I mean, ho like hoarding is probably a good example is there's so many people in Western countries that just think that by having more stuff in their house in, in case of a rainy day or for whatever reason, people hoard, they think that their life is better and that they're gonna feel more secure and more safe and having less anxiety by having more stuff. But I think in reality is the opposite. Where as long as we have the basics, food, water, shelter, you know, a toilet, like we're probably okay. Like we really don't need more stuff. And I, I really believe what you said is the more stuff we have, more clutter we have in our minds and the less comfortable we are, the the less, the less just at ease we are. So that's what I love being minimalist and think about it this way is every time we would've bought something that was, you know, even if something that's 20 bucks and it's so easy to buy random stuff that's like 10, 20, 30, 40 bucks and we end up just buying that like every other day when we live back home, either we order it on Amazon or we just buy in a store and we're like, oh, it's only 20 bucks.  

Johnny:    01:26:11    It's gonna buy it. It's only 15 bucks, it's gonna buy it. And that stuff ends up happening cluttered in our house. That takes some mental and physical space. But here's what people don't think about is imagine if every time you would've bought that $20 or $40 item, you just didn't, and you put that money in savings instead, imagine how much more free your life would be right now. Like, would you rather have all those random $40 items or would you rather have, you know, $40,000 in the bank knowing that that's there if you need it?  

Kristin:    01:26:41    Yeah, I that is a really good point because even with no pandemic, one of the big hurdles for people who want to become digital nomads is what to do with all of their stuff. Like selling it, giving it away, you know, like throwing away all of that money just to have the freedom, like to cut the cords, cut the ties, and be able to travel. That's a big accomplishment in itself when you have a bunch of stuff. And so maybe that's another thing that people can think about, um, during this time because all of that stuff creates a, it's a cost, whether it's like an energetic cost or an actual financial cost that you're paying, you know, if you have like multiple things that you have to make payments on every month and that becomes a liability in these kinds of situations. Yeah. So that's more food for thought.  

Johnny:    01:27:28    Yeah. So I, I know this is something that people don't want to hear, but it's the truth. It's money solves a lot of issues. And if you've saved up enough where you have a, you know, a nest egg, like a big emergency fund, whether it's six months or a year's worth of expenses, it can solve so many problems. And the anxieties a lot of people have right now, you know, whether it's digital nomads or just just normal people is almost all money based. Right. And even things like, what if I don't get covered for, uh, health insurance if, if I get sick? You know, and one of the arguments of, you know, of of being in a foreign country as a nomad is some people are worried. They're like, well what if my travel insurance doesn't cover me? Or what my health insurance doesn't cover me?  

Johnny:    01:28:10    Or what if I go to the hospital and they prioritize, uh, their, their citizens over me as a tourist? Well, these things I don't worry about because I know even though I don't want a $30,000 medical bill if I needed to, that was like life or death for me, I would just pay it. And it's kind of messed up to say, but I know that if I went to a hospital here in Sri Lanka and I had the money to go to a private hospital and just pay cash, I would get priority access. And it's like that in so many countries where if you have the money, and I'm not, you know, talking about being a millionaire, it's like literally saying, you know, I have $30,000 which I would've liked to not spend because that's my retirement money or my emergency fund. But if I have that, I know that no matter what crazy situation there is, I can get through anything and I can just pay for healthcare. I can pay for, you know, an an overpriced Airbnb if my landlord kicked me out because I'm, you know, black or I'm African and living in China right now with enough money, even though it's a bad situation that you sh I don't want to be in. I know that I can just get through it. You know, money solves problems.  

Kristin:    01:29:17    Yeah, that's true. Somebody told me when I first moved to Costa Rica to always carry a hundred dollars bill with me. And I would literally like have it folded up and like hidden in a place like in my wallet or even in like my surfboard leash or something like that because they said that no matter what happens to you in Costa Rica, if you have a hundred dollars bill, you can get out of it. And it's so true. Like if my car ever broke down, which happened a ton of times and I always felt like, you know, if I only had my debit card with me, but in that little wallet, was that a hundred dollars bill? Like I could get out of a pinch in a third world country anywhere Yeah. With that, you know? Yeah. So,  

Johnny:    01:29:55    And that a hundred bucks wouldn't really do anything for you in the us  

Kristin:    01:29:58    No. And if you have health insurance in the us like you have to pay a lot of money. I mean, I honestly don't have health insurance in the US right now, which is a big risk. But like, I don't wanna pay $400 a month for something that I'm probably not gonna use. Especially when I am, um, in foreign countries, I can pay out of pocket and like private healthcare in other countries is not as expensive as it is in the US Yeah. Like, not even close. So I could pay out of pocket. It cost me 50 bucks to go to my doctor in most countries. And like, I've had a doctor in like Slovakia in Nicaragua and whatever, and I would just pay out of pocket. 'cause it was actually more of a hassle to claim it on my travel insurance than to just pay for it and be done with it.  

Johnny:    01:30:41    Yeah. I, I definitely agree. So, you know, at the end of the day, I think this is a, a big wake up call for a lot of people. If you're not prepared for this pandemic and you're suffering through it, ask yourself why. And maybe there's a chance that it's really not your fault and there's nothing you could have done differently. Right. You could have had 30,000 of savings and you could have got so screwed and you would've lost it all and still didn't have enough. You know, but at least you prepared for it. Right. You know, maybe just got really unlucky, maybe things are really, really bad and they are, I, I feel, I generally feel bad. And if you need help, reach out, reach out to your loved ones, reach out to your friends, reach out to your local community. You know, even reach out to me.  

Johnny:    01:31:17    Maybe I can point you in the right direction. But for the 99% of other people out there, a lot of the problems and anxieties we have right now are just not reality. I think it's just in our minds of what could happen or some of it's just uncomfortable entitlement. We're just not comfortable. You know, we're, we're just not used to being uncomfortable ever <laugh>. And we're just entitled where everything should be always be good and easy and you know, and that's just not reality. So it's a good reality check. So I think what people can learn through this episode and also reading your post that I'll, I'll link in the show notes, is we have to have some personal responsibility. And this, we didn't choose to be in this pandemic. None of us did. But the choices we made the last five years of what mental state we're in now to get through it, what financial state we're in now to get through it and what physical shape and where we are even, I mean, we knew this was, you know, this was happening back in February at the latest.  

Johnny:    01:32:12    We had time to relocate to a different country before the lockdowns. And either a lot of people chose to try to go somewhere better, you know, potentially that had more freedom, whether it's Mexico or you know, Thailand or Bali and they got stuck somewhere or they chose to stay where they are or they chose back to go back to their, their home country and, you know, live with their parents and now be stressed that they're spending so much time with at in their, with their family. These are all choices that we had made. And I think that's what I really wanna leave everyone with is realize that everything that most things that have happened to us have been a choice. And it's also a choice how we are gonna get through it now, but also what we're gonna do for our future.  

Kristin:    01:32:53    That is so incredibly well said Johnny. And I just wanna thank you for just acting on your ideas and putting out the things that come to your mind because we wouldn't be having this conversation right now if you didn't ask other digital nomads to share their experiences in different parts of the world and then ask us to contribute. That's why I sent in audio for your podcast, and then you asked me to be on yours and then, and then I wrote this article based on like the questions that you were asking and the topics and, and now maybe this conversation that we're having and your other podcasts and this article and all of these little things can like help somebody somewhere in the world. And so that's like the kind of ripple effect that everybody can make. And like the small actions and the small connections that you make with other people.  

Kristin:    01:33:42    And so yeah. Thank you so much for doing that and, and to keep, you know, keep going. Like we're just gonna all keep going Right. Until, until it's over. And one other thing that you just made me think of is thi this pandemic started in China, but like December or January and before we've had other pandemics that are not as big, you know, and then there was Ebola in Africa and, and I've always thought that it was like an injustice that other people were suffering, whether it was from the sickness or whether it was from terrorism. And it seems like the world just kind of has this orientation where, you know, some countries and some citizens like their suffering and their wellbeing is less important than it is in the, like western and entitled countries. And I think that is kind of like a moment of reckoning that's happening right now because we didn't care, you know, as a, as a globe, people were like, oh yeah, China's on lockdown and they were locked down for at least two months, we weren't like, worried about their well, oh. You know, like I was personally, I was like, oh my God, before I, most of us did  

Johnny:    01:34:43    Not care. Most of us didn't care at all. We, they're like, oh, that's them forever.  

Kristin:    01:34:47    Yeah. Yeah. And then when Ebola happened and everything, and then also with animals. Like, we have shmoo at SeaWorld. Like there's all these animals in captivity. Like, I, I hope that people have more awareness now and more empathy to know that like, like everyone's the same. It doesn't matter like what income level you have or what country you're from, or if you're a human or an elephant or whatever. Like, nobody likes to be locked up <laugh> and like a  

Johnny:    01:35:12    Tiger in Oklahoma. <laugh>.  

Kristin:    01:35:14    Yeah. Everyone's suffering equally. So yeah, I hope that people can just think about that. Um, that too, like if a terrorist attack happens, you know, if there's a shooting in Las Vegas, it's just as bad as if there's a terrorist attack like somewhere in the Middle East where we like downplay it, you know, like, oh yeah, well that was in Syria, or that was in Lebanon. So it's like, not as important. Like it's equally as important. So yeah, I just hope that we, this is another thing with digital nomads is like, we feel like we're citizens of the world. We like, identify with lots of multiple countries and cultures. And, um, I hope that this mindset can grow beyond borders for, uh, for other people even while they're in quarantine.  

Johnny:    01:35:53    Yeah, I definitely agree. And I think that something good things are gonna come out of this. You know, a lot of bad things are gonna come out of it as well, but I, I really believe that this is a spark for innovation, for mindset shifts, for life shifts. And this will end, even though it seems like it's going forever, it's gonna end. And one day we're gonna look back and we're actually probably gonna miss the, all the free time that we had. You know, we're gonna, we're gonna look back and be like, Hey, remember that, remember that those two, three months that we had no responsibilities and all we had to do was stay at home. That was the only job <laugh>, was to stay at home and do nothing. And we're gonna miss it one day. And I, and I really hope that people who are listening to this, and, you know, thank you for listening all the way to the end.  

Johnny:    01:36:32    I know this is a long episode, but I'm really, really proud of you for taking, you know, taking initiative to listen to podcasts like this, or watch videos like this. And hopefully you'll take some action and you'll learn and you'll grow and you'll do something to come out of this better than you came into it. And I really believe that everybody has the chance to do so. And I, and I know not everyone has it as easy as others, but at the same time, you know what, there's always something that you can do. And complaining or being worried or stressed or anxious about it is not helping you or the world. So, uh, again, if you need help, we're here for you, but sometimes you just gotta help yourself. So, Kristin, thank you so much for coming on the show. Uh, if people wanna reach out, uh, to you or learn from you, uh, how can they do that?  

Kristin:    01:37:17    Um, well, I think the best, I have so many places now on online, but, um, my Facebook group, badass Digital Nomads and my podcast, badass Digital Nomads, you can always tune in there, um, or on YouTube Traveling with Kristin , TravelingwithKristin.com and youtube.com/digitalnomad. So there's a lot of places, but <laugh>, if you just, you just Google me, just Google Traveling with Kristin or Google: Badass Digital Nomads, and, um, and you'll come across it and  

Johnny:    01:37:47    We'll put all this in the show notes. This is episode 246, and Kristin also has a new Make Money Mentorship Program. So if you need some help starting your online business and you want to have, is it weekly, uh, coaching calls? You can,  

Kristin:    01:38:00    Yes. Yeah. Oh, sorry. So, um, I actually created this out of like, the needs of people in my Facebook group because everybody was panicking, like, how do they make money online? And I was like, well, I can answer Facebook messages one-on-one, or I can like actually create a framework for how to make money online, like, you know, now. Um, so I put together a course and, um, yeah, it's a weekly, weekly call and also like two private consultations with me, just, just to help people get started. Okay.  

Johnny:    01:38:29    I love it. So get over that hurdle. Yeah, if you wanna check that out, I think some people will benefit from that because Kristin's been doing this for a long time. Uh, we'll have a link to her course in the show notes. She's go to Travel Like a Boss podcast com and look for episode 246. Uh, any last words, Kristin?  

Kristin:    01:38:44    Um, no, I mean, thanks again Johnny. I look really like look forward to everything that you're gonna create out of this. And I have so much love for the travel, like a boss community and the Nomad Summit community, and the whole digital nomad community. So, um, thanks for just acting on your instincts and, and putting this content out there. And yeah, if anybody is feeling unsure of stuff or just needs like some motivation or tough love, like reach out to Johnny, reach out to me and we'll, um, we'll, we'll set you straight <laugh>.  

Johnny:    01:39:16    Yeah, I, I love it. And, and to be honest, I'm so glad we did this because last night actually, uh, had trouble sleeping because thinking, man, like, I'm, I've been reading the, the comments just on the, on the article you wrote on like the, the people, you know, saying all the, the all the, you know, anxiety and, and the sob stories people have had, and people, you know, framing it, you know, in a certain ways. And I'm like, you know what? Maybe by having this episode about the positives is going to somehow, you know, hurt, you know, these people. And then I thought about it more and more and I realized, you know what? We might be helping, you know, a very small percentage of people feel better about the situation and them suffering, or we can help the majority of people, you know, not suffer and, and not fall into depression for no reason and get through it.  

Johnny:    01:40:03    So, you know, at the end of the day, I, I really believe it's a huge net positive. And at the end of the day, I, I really believe that, you know, by putting positive messages out there, it's going to, it's, it's gonna help the world. So thank you Kristin. And thank you for all of you for listening. Uh, if you like this episode, please share it with a friend. And if you like the podcast, go to iTunes, search for the Travel Like a Boss podcast, give it a rating and a review. 'cause that helps boost it up and get, gets out to more people. So, uh, hopefully we'll talk to all of you in the next week or two and hope you're all safe and healthy wherever you are. Uh, I love all of you guys. And Kristin, thanks for coming on. Thanks.  

Kristin:    01:40:39    Bye guys.  

Johnny:    01:40:40    Bye guys.  

Kristin:    01:40:47    I hope you all like this guest episode of Travel Like a Boss podcast with Johnny and I, what did you think of this topic? I would love to hear, remember, you can leave me a message now at TravelingwithKristin.com/podcast and to support this podcast, make sure to leave a review or become a patron for $5 a month on patreon.com/TravelingwithKristin. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N / Traveling with Kristin and see you next week.