Black Identity Abroad and Creating a Career You Love With Amanda Bates, the Black Expat

Sneak Peek:

Kristin:    00:00:00    Yeah, I'm glad that I can participate not being black because <laugh>, I was in a clubhouse room. It was Black Men Who Travel or something, <laugh>. And I was in that group. And you know how you can see where people are in, are in, one of my friends texted me, he's like my mentor. I have a lot of respect for you. I, I see that you're speaking, you're on the panel in Black Men Who Travel right now on Clubhouse -- 

Amanda:    00:00:23    Good for you come through <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:00:26    He's like, I love that. 

Amanda:    00:00:27    <laugh>. Like, I'm not even mad. So many will just be like, this is not for me. And I, when you read like called The Black Expat, everyone's just like, can I, I'm like, I don't,

Kristin: Can you watch? Can I read?

Amanda: I'm like, I don't care if you, I mean like I want you to read and that's why I start the podcast so that everyone could feel like they could participate.  

Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests.

Kristin Wilson, Host:    00:00:50   Hi everyone. Kristin from Traveling with Kristin here. And welcome to a super fun conversation here on episode 105 of Badass Digital Nomads with Amanda Bates, The Black Expat. I've been following Amanda for a long time on social media. I don't even remember the first time I came across her content, but she's been traveling and living abroad for a long time and she creates a lot of really unique content about all the different types of people who are living abroad and sharing their stories. And you know, I get a lot of comments on YouTube about how expats are only white, rich people and this really couldn't be further from the truth. Expats can be of any nationality and background.  

Kristin:    00:01:52    So I wanted to bring Amanda on and share her story about the unorthodox ways that she's figured out how to live abroad when no one else gave her permission to do that. And how she's managed to support herself and also help other people achieve the same thing. So in this episode, we're talking a lot about travel, finding remote jobs and really finding your place in the world and how to overcome the challenges that come with that. Amanda talks a lot about the struggles of being what's called a third culture kid and not really feeling like she fit in anywhere, which is really relatable and seems to be a theme in my own content. So if that resonates with you, you are in for a treat. We also talk about racism, what it's like to be a black expat living abroad, especially from the US during the George Floyd protests.  

Kristin:    00:02:50    We talk about misconceptions about expats versus immigrants, if it's safe to solo travel as a female or based on your sexual orientation or mobility issues. And also how to go about choosing the best place for you to either travel or move abroad to. This is such a feel good episode and I hope you have as much fun listening to it as I did recording it. I am so honored and humbled and happy that you are here. Enjoy this conversation with Amanda Bates and before we jump into it, definitely check the show notes out so you can follow Amanda. She's also the host of The Global Chatter podcast and very active on social media. So as usual, check the show notes for more. 

Podcast Interview:

Kristin: Welcome, Amanda to Badass Digital Nomads podcast.  

Amanda:    00:03:52    I am so excited for this because I feel like we're gonna have a crazy, fun conversation. <laugh>,  

Kristin:    00:03:58    Yes, I'm already having too much fun in the pre-interview I was like, let me record so we could actually share this conversation with everyone who's listening. So for people who have not met you or haven't come across you or your work yet, your background is so colorful and so diverse. So give us your elevator story of your background and how it has led to becoming The Black Expat.  

Amanda:    00:04:25    Oh my gosh, my story. Okay. I'm already gonna tell you right now. It's not gonna be 30 seconds, so I'm sorry <laugh>. And if you haven't met me before, hopefully you'll hear something interesting. But obviously I am Amanda, which you've introduced, but I run a site called The Black Expat, which is really like one of my passions and my loves. And to get to the story of The Black Expat, I kind of have to re rewind to my own international story. And so I'm American. I was born in the United States, it's in DC actually. So I have a love for Washington DC probably an unreasonable amount of love for DC but my parents were, and I, I always say this jokingly, but not really were expats or immigrants depending on who was wielding the term. So I know I see <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:05:13    Yes. I actually wanna ask you to define expat versus immigrant later on, 'cause I've been getting a lot of comments about that. But we'll get there  

Amanda:    00:05:20    <laugh>. Right? And when you run a site call The Black Expat, that conversation happens all the time. All the time.  

Kristin:    00:05:26    Yeah.  

Amanda:    00:05:27    Um, so here's the deal. They came from a small country called Cameroon, which is in West Africa. So if you know where Nigeria is kind of in that hook of Africa, Cameroon is like to the, I always get this confused to the east. And so where the fat part meets the skinny part is <laugh>, that corner of West Africa's where they're from. And I, I say this and this is super important because my parents and my entire family are actually part of the English minority. So they're anglophone. 'cause the first question I always get asked is, you don't have a French accent, you're not francophone. And the reason this is important is that it'll become kind of the starring part of my international story. So when I, you know, I was born in the States cross-cultural kid living in, in DC, Virginia, Maryland. They decide when I was 10 to move to the French speaking part. And so you have to understand, my parents, once again, we're not French speaking, we are not francophone. They moved to the Capitol. And so now I'm this American kid living in West Africa. My mom is working for the US Embassy. I'm going to international schools and I'm having what one would call an identity crisis. <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:06:37    Yeah. Wait, how old were you then?  

Amanda:    00:06:40    Yeah, I was 10 years old. Here's the crazy part. So I was 10 years old and obviously running The Black Expat, I am a black woman. And so I'm leaving a country where I'm in the minority and I speak the language and I get the cultural norms. They were different than outside my household, but I'm American and I moved to a country where I look like the majority, but I have a completely different, I grew up in the west at that point, right? I sound different, class differential where my mom worked, where we lived. And then I'm in this international expat space because there are business folks and diplomats and missionaries and all these other people, you know, aid workers who are in the community. That makes up where I was going to school. So I was there for the Americans. They know the seventh through 12th grade, I, I went to two international schools there. The crazy part, I always say this 'cause this is weird for anyone who, who was a third culture kid, my high school was half in the British system, half in the American system. I know.

Kristin: Oh wow.

Amanda:  Like I'm seeing your face and you're trying to process how wild that is.  

Kristin:    00:07:45    I'm just trying to think like how you would deal with that as a kid.  

Amanda:    00:07:49    And Well, and there, here was their rationale. It's an international school. Some of you are going to Europe and many of you would probably go to British universities and some of you're gonna go to the States. So they wanted you to be prepared for whatever option you were going for. So fast forward, I graduate, I come back to the states and I have the second identity crisis of my life, which I think anyone who has traveled or lived abroad understands  

Kristin:    00:08:14    The reverse culture shock.   

Amanda:    00:08:16    Oh my God. And let's paint the scene. I am 17 years old, I've been out of the country for seven years. I come back by myself. I go to the largest state institution in my state after a graduating high school class of 15.

Kristin:  Wow.

Amanda:  And I go to a state school that has, at that time 23,000 students. And here's, here's the best part, pre-social media, <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:08:46    Right?  

Amanda:    00:08:47    Pre you're look at your eyes, <laugh>, the pre  

Kristin:    00:08:49    I'm like,  

Amanda:    00:08:50    Like when I went to college, and this will totally date me. Um, so dial up was, was just booming. Like it was,  

Kristin:    00:08:56    We're probably the same age. What year did you graduate high school?

Amanda: 97.

Kristin:  Okay. So you're a couple years before me. But I can totally relate.

Amanda:    00:09:05    You know what I'm talking about? I said the dial up part, the AOL chat rooms, that's where all that, all the excitement was happening online.  

Kristin:    00:09:12    People freak out. Like I am, like I didn't even have a laptop until grad school. Like I went to college with no laptop. And yeah. People that can't even, they can't process that. If you're born in the nineties, <laugh>.  

Amanda:    00:09:25    And here's the deal, like traveling too. Like I'm very comfortable traveling without a smartphone. I'm total, because I grew up in the era of traveling without that. Like I went to, yeah, I went to South America, I went to, uh, Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil. Don't speak Spanish, don't speak Portuguese. Went by myself, didn't have a smartphone. I'm here to tell you the story. So I made <laugh>. So I made you survived, I made it. You know what I mean? So I, but, but in that time you didn't have the kind of communication. And so the reverse culture shock, I always say sometimes it's worse than when you leave a place. Like when you go for the first time.

Kristin:    00:10:01     I think it is because it's, you're supposed to be at home. It's supposed to be your home country. 

Amanda:    00:10:07    And  people assume, you know, like what they're talking about. And I'm sitting there going, but I've been gone for seven years and like I said, I didn't even have the internet to like really go Google it. It was just, I don't know,  

Kristin:    00:10:18    You lose like this almost a decade of pop culture. Yes. And that's what happened when I went to Costa Rica from like 2002 ish.

Amanda: Yeah.

Kristin:  And then came back and I was like, I haven't seen this cat video. Like I, I didn't, what's, I didn't have internet at my house or anything <laugh>. So Yeah. You missed like a big gap. It's very strange. So did you learn French in Cameroon finally?  

Amanda:    00:10:41    I did because we were required to take it. I became fluent. And then, you know, when I was in college, I would fly back and forth between, this is, I say this is really funny 'cause I promote study abroad to folks all the time. I didn't study abroad because my family lived abroad. So I would just go back and I know it's not the same.  

Kristin:    00:11:00    You basically studied abroad. 

Amanda:    00:11:02    I studied  abroad <laugh>. Yeah. And so, but college was hard because until I found the students, the international students and the American students that had an international story, I had a hard time connecting. Yeah. And this would actually become really foundational with The Black Expat because, so fast forward a couple of years, I get into this job where I'm working in college access, which means I'm helping first generation students or the first ones in their family go to college. Right? And I would say to them, you should study abroad when you get to college. Like it changes your life. And 95% of my students were students of color. And they would say to me, Miss Amanda, I don't know anyone who looks like me, who lives abroad, who's not in the military. And I was like, that's not true. I know all kinds of live people that live abroad that it's not, I mean, some are in the military, but it's not most of them.  

Amanda:    00:11:55    And so I started to ask some far wiser, smarter cross-cultural experts in my space who were of color and said, is there anything that even talks about the black experience living abroad? And they all said, yeah, no, there's nothing, there's nothing that's inclusive of the diversity of black identities. And there's nothing that's focused on it. Because actually when you look at a lot of expat literature, they sometimes tend to shy away from even talking about like the realities of different ethnicities and, and their, their mobility and international migration. The funny part is that as this is happening, I was preparing to leave my job and move to Qatar. And so I was preparing to move to Doha and I just thought to myself, okay, I'm gonna create a site. I don't even know what the full purpose is gonna be. It's, it's just gonna talk about black people living abroad. Like it's the most normal thing ever. Like, it's not even political. Although later on people were like, your title is so political. It wasn't even political. It was an advocacy. I wasn't trying to, it literally was just like, no, here are normal black people who just move abroad and here are photos. So you know that I'm not lying. And it just kind of blew up. Like it just became a thing after that.  

Kristin:    00:13:13    And so that was 2016?  

Amanda:    00:13:16    Yes. So I had the idea in late 2015. We launched in 2016 because I was heading to Doha, August of that year. And then I remember in the, so maybe around May, this is so funny. I was talking to a friend because at the time the Wall Street Journal had an expat section and I kept thinking they never have any black stories of black expats in that section. It's so terrible. And then like two weeks later they reached out to do a story and then we just kind of, I was like, I'm so glad I didn't put that on the internet. And then it just became a thing after that. <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:13:52    That's awesome. I mean, props for having the idea and launching it so soon after. Because I had the idea to do what I'm doing, doing and have a podcast and a YouTube channel Traveling with Kristin probably in like 2014 or 2015. And it took me years to actually start doing it of like hyping myself up <laugh>, you know, like convincing myself. Yeah. Well at the same time I was traveling and running my online business, so it was like, it was gonna be a passion project too. Yeah. I think I just always kept myself really busy and I was like, I know I'm gonna do it at some point, but it's, I think from coaching with people too. And we can talk about this with your career coaching. You know, usually people are thinking about doing something for a long time. Before they actually take that first step. Good for you. Just to be like, I think I'm just gonna launch this blog and then we'll see what happens. A couple months later, you're on the Wall Street Journal, like <laugh> to becoming the spokesperson for all black expats everywhere. No pressure. 

Amanda:    00:14:56    And you know,  It's funny you say that, but I have been at conferences and I've spoken and I've had, I always have at least one person go, you are The Black Expat. And I have to be like, okay, first of all, there are millions of black expats that are around, but thank you. Brand recognition, <laugh>. I'm like, but thank you for like, for like reading my stuff and reading our site. Yeah.

Kristin:    00:15:16    So cool. So yeah. What would you say the difference is then between an immigrant and an expat? Because I just published this video about why Americans specifically leave Costa Rica because I lived in Costa Rica for a really long time, so it's like, why do Americans move there and then leave? And a lot of the comments were about, like, basically you can tell that people think that expats are just rich white men. So where did that come from and what is the difference? Because expats in my opinion, can be of any nationality living abroad. So Yeah. What's that distinction that you explain to people that ask on your site?  

Amanda:    00:15:57    I think historically, the, the, the issue has been that when we've thought of an expat, truly we've, we've tied it to a profession and we've tied it to a racial and ethnic group. So historically, when people think of expats, they tend to think of diplomats, right? They tend to think of traditional business. Obviously we're in a totally new world right now with digital nomads, right? And, and people who are working independent locations don't really matter for them, but they tend to think of those. And when you obviously think about those roles, it does tend to be men. And it tends to be folks from western countries because the argument and the, the assumption is that if you're in an expat, you are only going to be somewhere for a short term. Like it's this timeframe. It becomes different when you talk about black and brown folks, right?  

Amanda:    00:16:47    And even even running a site called The Black Expat, I've had black and brown folks who didn't even think they were expats because they had never been put in that category. Even though if I told you, and I remember, I bring this up all the time. I met a guy who, first of all, he was a third culture kid, meaning he was someone who had grown up outside his home culture. So he had, as a kid, he was like from, I think he was from Mali or Niger, grew up in Saudi Arabia, grew up in Egypt, grew up somewhere else, okay. TCK. But then as an adult then lived in like Norway, the UK, France, and now lives in the Netherlands. And he was like, I've never thought of myself as an expat. And I said, because the image that we're given assumes that if you're black or brown, you are moving. And it's usually to escape something. War, conflict, poverty. Right? And then you have the intention of being there long term. Now I find that really funny because right now obviously the UK's working with itself through Brexit. Right. And I find it really interesting, I've been having conversations with people all the time who are like, there are all these white Britts in Spain.  

Kristin:    00:17:59    Oh yeah.   

Amanda:    00:18:00    They don't get called immigrants though. They get called <laugh>. 

Kristin:    00:18:02    No, expats.

Amanda:    00:18:03    Even though they own homes. And you know, they may own a second home, they've been there for like eight years, but they still get to be an expat.

Kristin:    00:18:10    We need to fix this <laugh>. So here's how it goes. People, if you are of any nationality living outside of your home country and working there for a determined period of time, like a non infinite period of time. Like if you're only there for a, a month or a year or three years or five years, you are technically an expat. You're an immigrant If you move to that country with the intent to stay there, to immigrate to that country and set down roots and not go back to your home country. So usually I guess we could say that expats plan on coming back at some point.

Amanda:  Yes.

Kristin:  Or they plan on changing, changing countries.

Amanda:  Right.  

Kristin:    00:18:48    So you just made me think of when I was in college. So I studied abroad in Australia. I studied international business at Griffith University on the Gold Coast, which is really lovely place. And I studied international human resources where we learned about how to help expats relocate to different countries. So I basically was working from the HR perspective of what I'm doing now, which is kind of weird. I think maybe everything's all meant to be, but we got those images in the textbooks and you know what I think it is?  Now that you mentioned it, I think people have this connotation of it being like rich white men because so many CEOs in developed countries were white men. And those were the people who got sent on those international assignments. So like you were saying, it's people in government diplomacy and in positions of leadership at multinational corporations. Which, if you think back, maybe it started, I don't know, maybe after the Cold War, who knows when it started to become a thing for these CEOs or C-suite executives to relocate to different countries on a work assignment. But let's say the past 50 years it was, you know, maybe 90 something percent, I don't know what the numbers are, but just fewer women and fewer,

Amanda:  Oh my gosh.

Kristin:  People of color are in leadership positions at companies. And so by default, expat became associated with what a American CEO looks like with that stereotype.  

Amanda:    00:20:19    I would say definitely you could take it well before the Cold War, because even if you look at the US State Department, right? So the US State Department, I think it was not until the late seventies where a single woman could really serve in some of these positions. And so when you look at diplomacy and then you also start thinking about the gatekeepers, right? From a racial standpoint and from access, right? You're always gonna see white men. And then we start to see some white women in these positions of power. But what the problem is, is that you look at a country, for example, as diverse as the United States, there's like Canada, we know that there are all these ethnic groups there, but because of their own histories, the access to those echelons of power haven't been there. So then it's funny, we then send this message across the world, right?  

Amanda:    00:21:10    So I, and I'm using diplomacy as just an example, but then we send this message across the world that, oh, the only people who travel and move across from this country look like this. And I'll tell you, in a very real way, this seems very small, but as a black traveler and someone who's been a black expat and having talked to many a black traveler and ba black expat from western countries, it is amazing the number of people who are surprised we're not American. That we're sorry that we are American or that we are Canadian, or that we are British because they haven't seen in the imagery that you could be black and work for a company and be or be at Peace Corps or could do this or could be a diplomat.  

Kristin:    00:21:59    And even these millions of people of color that are living abroad, when the locals in those countries see them, they might just assume that they're a local of that country.

Amanda:  Right.

Kristin:  And that just occurred to me because my ex-boyfriend was Lebanese. And whenever we went to a Spanish-speaking country, or pretty much anywhere that wasn't Europe or Canada or the us, people would speak to him in the local language because they thought that he was from there. So even though he was Middle Eastern, he looked Latin.  or people just assumed he has dark hair. Darker skin. He must be Latin. And I'm the white blonde girl with blue eyes who speak Spanish and they're talking to him in Spanish because they just assume he's Latin and I'm not. And so you, you know, if, if you wouldn't have the interactions with people then right now there's probably just like millions of people that if you saw them walking down the street, the local might assume that they live there or that they are from there and not even know that it was an American or a Canadian.

Amanda:  Absolutely.

Kristin:  So that's interesting too.  

Amanda:    00:23:01    I mean, I always wanna shout out the Canadians because God bless them. They always get lumped in as, oh you're American. And I, and then I love like the black Canadians, 'cause everyone, and I hate to say this, even black Americans are like, wait, you're Canadian <laugh>. And I'm like, there are black Canadians and their stories are very similar I think in some aspects to black Americans and some other black Westerners.  

Kristin:    00:23:21    It's so crazy too to think about like even before like the Cold War and during World War I and World War II, people weren't really traveling that much. That was all even before, I mean, technology wasn't that good either. But before the Civil rights movement, African Americans didn't even have the kinds of job opportunities and work opportunities and government jobs that are available today too. So couldn't vote. Wow. This is really a big rabbit hole <laugh>. I know. I just like, we we could go down. It's so unfair. <laugh>. Let's talk a bit about the career aspect of it because you help people with finding jobs or working for themselves or developing their career in some way.  How have the opportunities grown for people that want to get a job abroad or work for themselves or work online?  

Amanda:    00:24:11    Sure. So, uh, as you alluded at the beginning of this whole thing, I wear 1,000,001 hats. And so it's, I am the odd bird who could talk about way too many things at once. So I professionally am trained at the graduate level. I'm actually a counselor by training. I've got an MBA, but I also have a master's in counseling. And I actually choose to focus on career because I think that outside of your family and friends, you spend most of your time trying to figure out how to make money and or do this thing that maybe helps the world or makes the world a better place. And now however you see it. And so careers are really tricky. I think that when you are looking to go abroad, and I know you're a coach, that's usually one of the big things people are worried about is how do I support myself? Right? Yes. So they either are thinking I can become, you know, a digital nomad, um, some way or I need to find a job. And so I always tend to have two pieces of advice when it goes to that. If you are a digital nomad, my first advice is always for the love of God, before you leave anywhere, know what you can do. <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:25:20    Yes.  

Amanda:    00:25:21    Oh my God, I've, I've done expat coaching. This is the bane of my existence. <laugh> when folks are not, they are not aware of what they're good at. Because you and I have been in different countries. I think that sometimes that's a hard, that's a really hard time to also figure out, oh I can copyright. Oh I can sell, oh I can run social media. Like the things that you can do while you're at home. There's no reason why you can't start before you leave. Right.  

Kristin:    00:25:56    Right. I always say there's like a reason the digital part comes before the nomad part. <laugh>, right. First you have to have that income stream, or it doesn't have to be online necessarily, but you have to know where's that money coming from. And I actually just talked about this on the 100th anniversary episode is that no matter where I was living, even if it was a low, low income, like a thousand dollars a month or a study abroad scholarship, I always had some form of financial support before I got on the airplane.  

Amanda:    00:26:23    No, I, I think that's 100%. And I think what so many people tend to think is that they could just go to Costa Rica or Bali and just go hang out and that they, it'll all come together. Especially if they go to a place where financially if they're leaving like from the west, it's not as economically the cost of living is lower. But that's not the time to kind of find yourself when you also know when finances are important. Right. And so if you're going the digital nomad route, you need to be very clear about what you can offer. And then the other thing, and this is really funny. So like I lived in the Middle East, right? So I mentioned Bali, you could go and be a digital nomad and do your thing in Bali or some of these other places. That's not quite the case when you're moving to, for example, like the Gulf.  

Amanda:    00:27:09    Like you can't, there are places in the world where it's not really like it being a freelancer is really, really regulated. And so when you're thinking I wanna be digitally like free and I wanna be able to work anywhere, you really have to have an understanding of even where you're going, if it's even conducive to you being able to do what it is that you can do. So you may love a place, but they have crappy internet. Like I've, and I've had people who've been like, I wanna be in this country. I went there. The problem is the power goes out all the time in Tanzania and I'm like, maybe you're gonna either have to change the business if you wanna be digital or you're gonna have to look at a different country. And so I think that that's just from a basic level. But then I always like to shout this out for the other folks who wanna live abroad or interested in international living and don't wanna be a digital nomad. Because I think we talk so much about that piece that we forget that there are people who are just like, I don't want the stress of trying to like, I just don't want the, I don't want the drama of it.  

Kristin:    00:28:15    Yeah. 

Amanda:    00:28:16    And this is always just a side for them. 'cause I never want them to feel left out when they're living. And I always just say same thing, research the country and the region you wanna be in. Know what your skills are and see if your skills are in demand.  

Kristin:    00:28:28    That's actually what I wanted to ask you is for people that are listening, what is the difference in the strategy of finding a remote job or building something online versus looking for a an expat job? Okay, so I wanna get to that. But first, so when you were in Doha, what were you doing for work?  

Amanda:    00:28:48    I was overseeing career services at an American university there. So what I do now,

Kristin:  Okay.

Amanda:  I did abroad  

Kristin:    00:28:54    <laugh>. And how did you find that job?  

Amanda:    00:28:56    I am like the master networker. So basically I had a relationship with this university 'cause I was finishing my master's there and I knew that they had a campus in the Middle East and I knew that because I'm so internationally focused, I wanted an opportunity to go and live somewhere I'd never lived. And I basically pitched it, completely pitched this concept. They totally went for it. <laugh>. I had the backing of like some professors that I knew and they funded it like it was, I got it totally funded. So I got housing cut because the other thing is that when you live in the Gulf, you have to have an employer sponsored visa.

Kristin:  Yes.

Amanda:  So I had housing, I had a car, I had all this stuff. It was like my best life  

Kristin:    00:29:40    <laugh>  the luxury expat package. 

Amanda:    00:29:43    Yeah.  I like so I'm talking from the, this is the best possible situation. Like you have everything covered and people who just handle it. 

Kristin:    00:29:53    Yeah.  

Amanda:    00:29:54    I'm not gonna lie, I'm lazy so I do like that.  

Kristin:    00:29:56    How many years were you over there? 

Amanda:    00:29:58    So  I was only over there. My intention was to be there longer. I was only there for a year because there were two things. There was a couple family things happening and then I was looking at another position in the region and so I ended up coming back and then there's some folks asking me when am I coming back there? And I'm like, we'll see what happens after Covid. <laugh>. To answer your question, if you, so I'll do the employment first. If you are looking at employment there, there are a couple things you can do If you are already have a career, your professional networks in the country you're in. So like association. So if you're part of a membership, like say you're an accountant, part of an accounting association, find what international jobs are because usually companies are part of that. And then you can start to network and figure out that if you work for a company that has offices anywhere, everywhere, find out if you could be transferred.  

Amanda:    00:30:52    Um, if you work for a company and I think post covid, this should be really interesting. If you work for a company and they feel like you can do your work remote. Like you can't if you're a doctor, but if you could do your work remote, ask them can I be location independent? And the reason I say you have to ask them is because there is some tax implication for the company. But that's a great way where if they've realized you don't need to come in, then why couldn't you work in Canada? Why couldn't you work in Chile? Why couldn't you work wherever? You know, another big thing is finding a recruiter in your industry. So if you are using the accountant, finding an accountant recruiter who also has a hand in international recruitment to find the opportunities for you. Because I just had an interview on my own podcast where crazy story by the way, everyone should listen to this.  

Amanda:    00:31:43    She's an O-B-G-Y-N, her husband is an anesthesiologist. They were on vacation in New Zealand, happened to meet an American doctor who was working there, ended up moving to New Zealand to practice medicine 'cause they were able to find a recruiter who specifically recruited western doctors to work in Australia. I know this is wild.

Kristin:  Wow.

Amanda:  Australia and New Zealand and then now they live in Melbourne and now she helps an expats and coaches folks who wanna be expat doctors in in Oceania. So finding a recruiter who just knows your field and knows the kind of country you wanna go in is another way. I think a lot of professionals could do it.  

Kristin:    00:32:21    Yeah. I would say for people thinking about that to consider what you want your lifestyle. To be like I actually had a couple, a Canadian couple on the podcast. Our Freedom Years is the name of their episode. We'll link to that in the show notes. They actually networked through, I think it was LinkedIn to get jobs in Singapore, but then they had full-time jobs in Singapore. So they were getting probably really good expat salaries. Probably some sort of housing budget. So there's all of these benefits to getting an expat job.  

Amanda:    00:32:52    Job  

Kristin:    00:32:53    For lack of a better word, a job abroad where you're working in a traditional job in a foreign country that comes usually with a lot of financial benefits and comfort. But then you have usually a traditional nine to five and we'll see what happens after Covid. But yeah, you usually have that, you know, have to go into the office and you might be on a work contract for two or three years or five years or something. So then the remote side or working for yourself or asking your employer if you can work from anywhere that has less financial incentives. 'cause you're usually footing the bill yourself. And if you're working for yourself, you have less stability compared to, you know, being an entrepreneur but you have more flexibility. So those are really the trade-offs for people who are thinking about that. And then what about for people that come to you that want help with uh, finding a remote job? What are some of the strategies that you've seen working even during this pandemic year?  

Amanda:    00:33:52    Yeah, so I think 2020, the dumpster fire, that was the great thing I think about it, is that people have sort of had to expand how they're looking for work. And so because we were almost all at one point forced to be remote with certain sectors that were exempted, it's kind of made companies I think a little bit more flexible in thinking, do we really need people always in the office? Can we hire someone away? And so I will say that I have seen over 2020 some great remote job sites that have just sort of popped up and I know they're all like escaping me right now. I'm thinking of like maybe remote Remote.co.  

Kristin:    00:34:28    Yeah. Remote.co.   

Amanda:    00:34:30    Yeah, yeah. I think if you just honestly do a search of like remote job boards, <laugh>, like they will all pop up. I mean there's so many. And so if you're thinking I wanna live somewhere else, but I don't wanna come into the office, I think that that's the first place I would start. I think that LinkedIn, there's so many things that are not great about LinkedIn, but quite honestly, if you're trying to find opportunities, kind of that job search function as well as being able to connect with the people who hire for these opportunities is a great spot. And then there're just some sectors that just lend themselves to being remote. And so I've had conversations with a lot of people right now irrespective of their skillset looking at like tech companies. So you could be, and I'll, I keep coming back to the accountant, but you could be an accountant 'cause I, I think I know someone who works for a tech company, but you're remote, right? So it doesn't necessarily mean that you're comp psci person, you're an engineer or whatever. But I say that because a lot of those companies that were already kind of very much in the web space anyway, were already prepared to be remote because of the nature of the work that they do. You know, copywriting, I think anything in communications to be honest, communications and marketing those fields tend to have a lot of remote as well because your copywriter doesn't need to sit next to you <laugh>. Right? 

Kristin:    00:35:54     Yeah. And Google actually has been competing with those remote job boards. So now if you search into Google for work, from home job or remote job and then whatever the field is or the job title, it will come up in the Google interface.  With job listings, you can even put a company name that you wanna work for or a location. So you don't even have to go to those job portals anymore because Google is being Google about it.  And they are aggregating all of the jobs in the search engine and so they're pulling from all the different sites and that is really cool. But that can be a job in itself. Yes. So I still air on the side of personal outreach and networking, I just did an interview with Mitko from That Remote Life Podcast.  

Kristin:    00:36:44    And he got his job by hiring a coach in a space that he wanted to work in. And he got to know these coaches and e-commerce and then started working for them. So it's like if you see somebody that you want to work with, maybe don't just send them a cold email like, Hey, can I work for you? Because I actually get a lot of emails like that, but they're just without any context. I'm like, I don't know maybe but don't I know..

Amanda:  what you do?

Kristin:  ..,don't know you or Right. But, um, if you get to know people, uh, in these remote areas, whether it's Facebook groups or even on Reddit, Twitter, all sorts of different forums. LinkedIn. And the more people that you get to know and interact with and talk to, then you can reach out and ask if they know of anything. 

Amanda:    00:37:28    And one more thing I just wanted to add to that. If you're the person who wants to be location independent and you're, you're trying to get a sense of how you can market yourself, you know I mentioned earlier looking at what your skills are. There's so many skills, especially in the digital space that are now in demand that I truly believe that if you, maybe you never thought about being that copywriter, but actually just taking an appropriate course or learning the ropes can actually make that a really marketable skill. Oh, there's a lot of stuff I think particularly in that social media content creation that people might be wanting take their first step forward in that they've never done before and actually spend that time, especially before you're ready to leave. Like you actually start practicing writing and practicing content creation. I mean, I can't think of, I mean, who doesn't want a content creator?  

Amanda:    00:38:22    I mean we, that's, this is what we all do, right? You and I create content all day long. Yeah. So I think that even if you're thinking to yourself, okay, I'm, I know this is a radical change, I'm a nurse, but you know what, I really do wanna be in a digital space and I wanna do something different. Well maybe you've got a site that's really focused on expat nursing. You still have to create content. And so I think that those are some skills that you could practice and you can build up so that if you are finding a remote job, you can very clearly say, Hey, I really understand data analytics. I know how to do social media. I understand how to read it. I know how to market. And I think that makes you a little bit easier a sell than someone else who just says, yeah, I, I kind of mess around with Facebook. I think I could do this job.  

Kristin:    00:39:03    <laugh>. Yeah, definitely. When I look at the skills that I've developed working remotely, I could apply for a job in any of those careers at an actual company <laugh> and be able to do it for them if I didn't have this other mission Right. That I'm going for to teach people how to become location independent. Of course. But you also did the same thing yourself. So giving these examples, like I know a nurse named Candy, she used to work for Nomad Summit, but she actually ended up creating a job board for traveling nurses and a Facebook group for traveling nurses. And you worked in career counseling, student counseling and those types of services and then created your own job out of it. And then while you were working in that job earning a paycheck.  You started your side hustle of The Black Expat and got on Wall Street Journal within a month <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:39:55    But you know, four years later it has grown into something that's multifaceted with different types of content and your opportunities have opened up not just to collaborate with other people, you could work with other people, but I'm sure your revenue streams have gotten more diverse as well. So for anyone listening, if you're, if you know that you wanna do something but you haven't started it yet, you can make a lot of progress even in a hundred hours of learning about something. Yeah. I think if you just spent two or three weeks researching one thing, practicing one thing, you would be ahead of 99%,

Amanda:  My gosh.

Kristin:  Of the other people. Even if you spent 20 hours doing it <laugh>, it's like you could become a mini expert at almost anything right now just from that, just spending one work week, like one 40 hour work week on one skill. But what about people who don't know what they're good at? Because you mentioned that at the beginning. And a lot of people don't know where they wanna start with either working for themselves or finding a job. So what do you recommend to people who are just lost? They're like, I don't even know what I'm good at. I don't even know what I could do to work in another country or to work online.  

Amanda:    00:41:07    So I'm a big fan of like pros and cons list. Right. And also just doing a list in general. 'cause I like crossing stuff off. So if you're just thinking, I don't even know what's a good fit for me. So let's just talk about you as a person. Like you have to be a little bit self-aware. Like they're just some things you have to know you like and you don't like. And if you are thinking to yourself, I don't even know what my professional capabilities are, start with the people who know and love you. Like actually ask the people who know you, what am I good at? Because a lot of times they can shine that flashlight in a way that you aren't even thinking. Right? So you may find out that you are really like you are a really good writer. Like when you write people like to read what you write, whether it's an email or it's a note or whatever.  

Amanda:    00:41:53    You may not think of that as being a big thing that could translate into a blog, a site, a magazine, content creation, a different way into marketing with tweets and Instagram or whatever. And so that's the very first thing. I think the second thing is that if you, you're obviously at this point you've been employed somewhere. What did you like at your jobs? What did you hate? So what is it that if you could only do at your previous jobs that you liked, you would do over and over, what's the stuff you'd never wanna do again? Right. So I really get in it with people when I'm just like, okay, so now once we've even gotten past the doing, let's even talk about how you feel. There are some people never wanna work with other people. They love numbers, they love spreadsheets, they love computers.  

Amanda:    00:42:39    They're accountants. There are other people who are sales. They love the energy of people, they love the excitement of it and closing the deal. Right? So think about the kind of work environment you wanna be in. Like what do you love about your current environment? What do you hate? Do you need a lot of sunshine? So do you need to be somewhere warm? Do you hate winter? Do you hate like the commute? Do you love public transportation? Those are all part of, and I, I have a very wellness model. So those are all part of the happiness of finding your career. Right. You will start to see some common threads because people are pretty consistent <laugh> once they start writing stuff down on paper. Right. So I always say, don't tell me you absolutely wanna be a doctor and then you faint at the sight of blood. Like that doesn't make sense. But if you are telling me that I love helping people, I love engaging with people, I love serving people, then you can begin to create a career out of the things that you know that you love. And like, because I would hate to actually completely uproot my life and then go and repeat something I hate doing.

Kristin:    00:43:47    Yeah.  

Amanda:    00:43:47    In a different time zone. Like why would you do that? Why would you take the worst part of what you hate, like don't like doing and then do it in a different country at a different time zone. Like that's expensive. At least just do it at home <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:44:01    Yeah. And this process is uncomfortable for people because we've spent our entire lives since we're five years old, doing a lot of things that we didn't like. Yes. And so it just becomes very confusing to make that distinction. Yeah. But we like what we're good at usually and we don't like what we're not good at. Right. <laugh>. So I did this deep dive around 2015. I went around asking all of my friends, what do you think I'm good at? People came up with things that I didn't even think about connecting.  other people together. They talked a lot about how inspired they were from my travels, which was really weird 'cause it was my friends from school that I didn't travel with.  But it was like they were inspired from what I was doing. And to me that was just my normal life.  

Kristin:    00:44:45    So I didn't even realize that. I also asked the same thing about my weaknesses of what people thought I wasn't good at. I asked my parents, my brother and sister. 'cause it's hard for people to be honest about that. But I think that even if you just focused on your strengths and didn't even care about your weaknesses, just consider that anything that you like, you really procrastinate doing that you hate doing. Like if you hate doing your accounting and your taxes, then you're not gonna be good at being an accountant <laugh>. So go in the other direction. But that will just give you at least somewhere to start. And even to think back to when you were a kid because kids are not shy. About telling you what they like and don't like. I was just babysitting my niece for this whole past week over Easter.  

Kristin:    00:45:28    And she knows what food she wants, what she doesn't want, what she wants to do with her time, what she wants to see. That sounds boring. Let's do this <laugh>. You know? And it's just, we are, we have those strong opinions and then we're bred to be quiet, sit in class, follow the rules, do the work. And so once we come back out into the world, and especially in 2021 where we have this technology and all of these different things colliding in the external environment, it's like this is the time to really be like, what do I want the rest of my life to be like? And you don't have to have it all planned out, but you have to to ignite that switch. And take that step to start doing it, start searching and, and then one thing can lead to another. So did you know that you were going to have a podcast and all of these other things when you were pitching your job and cutter?  

Amanda:    00:46:23    No. Okay. So the podcast is actually really funny. So I've got the podcast is called The Global Chatter. And it really is an offshoot of The Black Expat because it's all the conversations I wanted to have, but people wouldn't have the patience to read. 'cause you know, our intention brands are short, but you can drive and listen to. And my podcast is actually really long. But, so I'm amazed that people spend up to like 90 minutes listening. The reason I the podcast happened is that the audience kept going, Hey, do you have a podcast <laugh>? Like literally people who were following The Black Expat there, I kept getting emails going, do you have a podcast? And I was like, no. Should I <laugh>? And and they were like, well we really like, you know, when I do live events and I engage with people, people really like my energy.  

Amanda:    00:47:10    And they just kept going, you know, I wanna be on your podcast. And I'm like, but I don't have a podcast so I don't know what you're gonna be on. And so after the like eighth person asked if we had a podcast, you know, last year I figured we were, I don't know, month five into the Covid <laugh> situation. And I figured this is a great time to be on this podcast. I I, I've done podcasting with other things and I just thought what I'm gonna do is bring a bunch of people who I think I'm cool, who I think are really cool and it's gonna be like sharing a beer with a friend and we're gonna talk about everything, but it's gonna have an international tinge to it. And I've had the coolest conversations with people. And so to anyone who's just sort of like, I don't know where this can go. I, I had no idea what The Black Expat was gonna lo look like the day I launched it. I just launched it. Literally just launched it and hoped for the best.  

Kristin:    00:48:03    Yeah. And you find your way. And so you have The Black Expat, which is a blog, basically a kind of a community now.  Right.  

Amanda:    00:48:13   Right, right. Yeah I just call it a multimedia platform. 'cause at this point there's so many stories and advice. It's, it's, I'm not even the main writer. That's the thing. We've got so many different writers.  

Kristin:    00:48:21    You're sharing people's stories of what their experiences are living abroad as different colors from different backgrounds in different countries. And it's, it really is mesmerizing. What are some of the, the stories that you think really encapsulate the mission? Like is there a recent conversation you've had on a podcast where you just thought, this is it I'm doing it?  

Amanda:    00:48:47    There are a couple of stories and I always tell everyone who shares their story or who writes, and this is separate from the advice stuff that we do, that I'm always honored and privileged that they, that they would allow us to hold space for it. Because there's, there's some stuff there that you're like, whew, that's intense. I would say to this day, there are a couple of stories that still always get traction. So the first one I believe is called the Passport of Privilege. And it was this beautiful story by a queer Kenyan writer who was living in the US at the time who talked about the nuances of holding her blue passport and how it didn't have the power of an American one. And I remember the most encapsulating part of that story was when her girlfriend at the time graduated from law school and wanted to celebrate by going to Central America.  

Amanda:    00:49:42    And she said, but I can't go. And her not understanding that she wasn't sure because of her visa status and the passport she had that she would be able to return. And meanwhile her girlfriend's thinking, I'm sure they will, you know, she has this American passport and had never really understood the nuance of it. This story like it was written, it was one of our early stories and it keeps still coming back around where I'll be on Twitter and I'm like, 'cause you know, Google alerts and everything and I'll be like, this is getting traction again. Or I'll look at the back end of the site because that story was one of our early stories and we got so many emails and messages of black people who were living in the US who were not American passport holders who said, that's the first time I've seen my story.  

Amanda:    00:50:38    Actually no, I, you know, no, I'm not a lesbian. No I'm not dating this, you know, a lawyer. But like her experiences of walking through for a westerner what it takes for us to come here versus what it takes for them to go to our country because she did that. She beautifully laid out, you know, because how difficult it is because we think about Visa on arrival or I could just get a visa there. And she talked about how much it took for her to come to the States versus if you want to go to Nairobi today. So that's one story that always kind of gets folks, I would say in the past year because of the George Floyd murder that a couple people asked me if we would, or we were gonna write anything about George Floyd and I said, we wrote stuff around Michael Brown and Triva and Martin because this happens all the time.  

Kristin:  Yeah.

Amanda:    00:51:32     And the reason I say that is that we had a series of stories, um, and I remember one in particular by Keisha Hugh where she talked about how hard it was to be a black American expat living in a different country. Watching at that time St. Louis, you know, and Ferguson and the riots and everything happening and the isolation she felt not just from the greater expat, like not from the greater country she was in, but also from the greater expat community as a black woman who was seeing the pain and reflection of the people that look like her in her home country. And so I think what's really unique about our space is that we can talk about that because I'll be honest, I say it all the time, I don't know how many people would think about the isolation of a black expat watching George Floyd and I can bring it modern while they're living in Honduras and not even having a place to feel like they could vent.  

Kristin:    00:52:41    Yeah. You know, there is someone I follow, I think her name is Sophia on Instagram. She's a writer, I think she's a poet living in New Zealand and was talking about what it was like being a black expat in New Zealand, watching the George Floyd stuff unfold. There's this conflict I guess between wanting to enact change. Like going back to the US to be an activist but also enjoying your life abroad. Not having to be individually impacted by it on a daily basis because I just did a video about the downsides of living abroad. So I did one on what I love, what I, what I hate. And for me living abroad was the first time that I had really experienced discrimination.  And I said that as a negative that I don't like that feeling because I felt it in so many different places. But then I recorded another part on the video where I thought, wait a second. That's my perspective for a lot of black Americans. For them it's safer and they experience less discrimination when they go abroad. So this seems to be the, the case from everyone, everything that I've read from other expats online. But would you agree that there's less racism outside of the US and that it's could be safer for black travelers and expats outside of the US?  

Amanda:    00:54:08    So then here's where I always get really interesting and before I answer that, I actually wanna get back to something you just said. Um, in the podcast we had a couple of conversations around George Floyd and the word is guilt that you'll hear that comes up. Guilt that I get to be abroad. Guilt that I am not in the streets protesting. 'cause people are raging and it's a hard one in terms of experiencing less racism. See, here's the problem. This is where privilege comes into play. If you've got a Western passport, I can't say your experiences are gonna be the same if you're Ghanaian or you're Nigerian.  

Kristin:    00:54:43    Right.  

Amanda:    00:54:44    And that's the conversation that I'm often having with black expats is that where your blackness started, where your experiences started are not necessarily universal. Because I have been in positions where, you know, I tell this story all the time, but I was in Doha was standing in line at the time. I had a shaved head, well it was like super short, my features West African, whatever guy saw me in line, you know, just stood in front of me like he was gonna be served next. And I looked at him like I tapped him and I said, excuse me. And he turned around and went American. And I was like, yeah. He's like, I'm sorry. And he got back behind me. So even that question of the racism, there's some nationalism in it. Like there's some black folks who yeah, they're gonna tell you it's so much better than being in the States. And I have to say, well part of it is your Americanism or your Canadian is, or your British is co covering it. Let's ask someone from somewhere else.  

Kristin:    00:55:59    Yeah, that's true. I had my friend Agnes on the podcast, she's Kenyan and she had a similar situation in the Middle East where I think she was in, maybe she was flying first class or something, or she was in the priority line at the airport and they were, they thought she was in the wrong place. Like she was in the airport lounge or something like that. They're like, you know, let's see your papers. And they were just asking more questions and you could tell that that was that was why, because she didn't look like she belonged there. Yep. And I used to actually think about that. I'd be in the sky club in the US and I was like, it's really the, the male to female ratio is skewed and the white to non-white ratio is skewed

Amanda:    00:56:45    <laugh>. Right. 

Kristin:    00:56:46     And I would always about that <laugh>,  

Amanda:    00:56:49    Can I side note about the, the, the male to female ratio? So here's what's wild about the Gulf countries is that they have a very large male population because they also have a very large expat population. So like in Qatar, like 80% of the people who lived in Qatar were not Qatari. Right. I think it was like some insane number, like so like only Qatari is made up 15% of the population. And then because of engineering and all these other things, you also had a very high male population. And this one time me and my si, my sister came to visit from the states we're standing in the airport. I swear to you, first of all, there are like no black women so already control for that. Right. But I swear in that line of there were like five other women of like 300 people. And so I just remember standing there going, I stick out so bad right now. I'm female, I'm not covered. I am black <laugh> like, God, you're like, I'm just like this right here.  

Kristin:    00:57:51    It's like a spotlight. You're like do not fit in. And  

Amanda:    00:57:54    Then body space was not a thing. Right. So then I'm just sitting there like, this is everything that is most uncomfortable in my life right now. And I just thought, oh my god, oh my god, we have to get, we have to get out of this but there's nowhere to go. I just kept thinking, I hope this never ever happens to me again. <laugh>. So yeah.  

Kristin:    00:58:13    But that's one of the, the things about traveling is you become viscerally aware of your discomfort. Yes. And that could sometimes be in that situation or in a situation where you're like, your flip flops broke. So you're like barefoot on a chicken bus with no money and no food or something. It is like this combination of things that just happens. But I actually just listened to a podcast. It was Tim Ferris with the co-founder of Netflix. I forget his name right now. Randolph something. And he was talking about how he had to panhandle once because he was part of this adventure travel training program. They dropped off the adult chaperones in, he was in downtown Hartford, Connecticut. And they said we'll be back in three days to pick you up. And so he said after that experience of begging for food, begging for money, stealing food off tables at food courts, he was like, I was fine raising money with VCs after that.  

Kristin:    00:59:14    <laugh>, it's so easy after you ask people for spare change to eat, it's so easy to ask for 50 grand from a VC. And it's kind of like that with traveling after you've been in these just really difficult situations multiple times. Normal life, quote unquote. It's like swinging with 10 baseball bats and then <laugh>, you know, walking up to bat with just one. You're like, I hit a grand slam right now. So do you, do you take any sort of precautions or do any sort of extra planning when you go on travel? Because I saw that people ask you a lot, what are the best places for black expats to go? And I get that question, what are your favorite places? What are the best places to go? And I know we have like a little bit of a similar answer but yeah, I guess it's a two part question is, is there <laugh> good and bad places to go and do you take any other things into consideration before you choose a destination?  

Amanda:    01:00:12    So I would imagine, you know, you and I definitely probably share in terms of as women, right? Right. As as a woman, as a female solo traveler. 'cause here's the thing, people, I don't know why people are shocked to know this about me. I actually hate group travel <laugh>. So like, and I always feel bad to say it. There are very few people in my life, the ones that I can travel with, we could travel really well, but oh my god, I hate group travel. So I'm always traveling -- 

Kristin:    01:00:40     <laugh> in moderation. I, I do moderation.  

Amanda:    01:00:43    Oh my gosh, you're, you're better than me. I'm just like, no I don't wanna go. Um, I'll go by myself. But here's the, the challenge I think that I always have to tell, particularly black travelers, Wakanda doesn't exist. And that's just, that's just the reality. I'm like neither does Mund, you know, coming to America. Yeah. Yeah. Um, because we all have different needs. Right. And so I could give you, and, and obviously we wrote about this on our site, I can give you a list of places, but then what if you are gay? Well then all of a sudden, yeah you're gonna blend in 'cause you're black. But then they may have legislation and laws that are detrimental to you and your life and your partner and your family.  

Kristin:    01:01:22    Yeah. That's terrifying.  

Amanda:    01:01:24    So you know, you could say the same thing. What about if you have physical, and I'm just using as an example, but physical mobility issues. I say this because I have a brother who, who has physical mobility issues. Right. You until you have to figure out how to navigate a place in a wheelchair is when you start to realize a lot of places are not necessarily the most conducive for you. And so yeah, you have to figure out what is important to you when you're traveling. So when I research for me, I wanna know I'm a history nut. I wanna know the history of the place. I wanna know how they've historically really treated like people who are different. Not necessarily people who look like me, just like neighbors. Right? Like how do they deal with folks who aren't there? I like to see what travelers, you know, I like to see what other female travelers say.  

Amanda:    01:02:14    As much as I can find black travelers, I mean I definitely do read what white male travelers say because they, they can give me a general perspective that is still useful. So I like to hear from a bunch of different voices, both western and non, non-Western. So I'm getting a good mix. Right. Um, I, I am a planner so I do like to know where I'm going and what I'm doing. But then once I get there I like to open myself up to what could happen. And so I think that if you particularly have some specific needs, so that could be health, right? That like if you have dietary needs, if you've got religious needs, if you've got something else that has to be taken care of. If you're traveling with children, I think you need to actually start with the thing that is the most important to you and then work from there. Because if it's a place where once again you're in a wheelchair and it's hard to navigate and that may not be the place you're even going. So there's no point knowing whether they have the kind of food you want to eat.  

Kristin:    01:03:13    Yeah. Even big cities like London and I think this is a big problem in Europe because it's so old. Yeah. And they had villages and cities before the wheel was invented. Probably <laugh>, I dunno how long exactly. But before there were wheelchairs. And so just looking at the subway map, like the tube map in London, trying to find uh, tube stations that have an elevator. And that are handicap friendly. It's probably 20% Yes. Of the stations or something. So you really have to plan so many little things Yeah. That other people don't have to think about. But that's good to know that everywhere is an option for you.  And that you've solo traveled a lot. I actually think that we would be good travel partners because we probably would--

Amanda:    01:03:58     <laugh>. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, where do you wanna go? I'm actually thinking we should go somewhere but we have to go somewhere that neither of us has been. I think that's the--

Kristin:    01:04:06    Yeah.  Do you have anything on your, I guess bucket list for, I know you're in the US right now. Do you have any travel plans at all?  

Amanda:    01:04:14    Covid has just messed me up. Here's something super funny. So when I think about travel right now we live, those of us who are American, we live in a really big country and I've been to a lot, lot a good part of it. But there's so much domestically like this is me maturing. Okay <laugh>, this is me not like running on the first international flight. There's so many places domestically that I'm just like, I wanna see that. Like I haven't been to Wyoming or Montana and all of a sudden I'm--

Kristin:    01:04:43   me either  

Amanda:    01:04:44    wait I'm just,  

Kristin:    01:04:44    Let's do that

Amanda:    01:04:45    Oh my gosh we should totally do video <laugh>.  

Kristin:    01:04:47    I also, I wanna go to Maine.  

Amanda:    01:04:49    Me too.  

Kristin:    01:04:50    I've never been to Maine.  

Amanda:    01:04:51    I've never been to Maine. Do you see what I'm talking about? It's sort of like you've been to Singapore, you've been to Seychelles, you've been to Argentina and I've been to all those places but I haven't been to Maine. <laugh>.  

Kristin:    01:05:01    Yeah. I wanna do like Yeah. And more Midwest haven't been to Montana.

Amanda: Oh my gosh.

Kristin:  Wyoming, Utah. There's more of Portland, I mean more of Oregon.

Amanda:  We should totally

Kristin:  in Northern California.  

Amanda:    01:05:13    I would, I would totally plan a trip with you 'cause I think it'd be really funny and I think it,  

Kristin:    01:05:16    Let's go somewhere this summer. Oh and we can create content  

Amanda:    01:05:19    <laugh>. Okay. But now that you said it on the podcast, I'm kind of scared that now we have to do it. 

Kristin:    01:05:25    Now we  have to do it. It's gonna happen this year. Let's do it. And we can work from anywhere 

Amanda:    01:05:30    and  we don't need visas.  

Kristin:    01:05:30    Exactly. So what are your revenue streams right now? Or you don't have to say like exact details, but like what are your different businesses that you have going on? My gosh. That you're doing from anywhere. 

Amanda:    01:05:42    Oh my gosh. So what's keeping me in the US I'm a funky, I have a job and a side hustle or two side hustles. It might be three side hustles <laugh>. So believe it or not, I've actually, so I'm in higher ed and so for the people who are thinking to themselves, how can I make stuff work? Well the great part about being in in education is that nine months and then you get <laugh>, you depending on your contract you get time off. But, so I've got a job but then I have of course with The Black Expat and you know like everyone else, you think about affiliate marketing, you think about you know, advertising. And so we've got a newsletter and we've got these other places where sponsorship can come through and that's what we're doing with our newsletter and our podcast. Um, because I am also a career counselor, I have a whole separate <laugh> business on career counseling, which I set this year.  

Amanda:    01:06:37    I'm gonna scale back. I'm busy. Uh, you know, I'm really busy. I don't have time. And then now I have like clients that are just coming outta the woodwork. The funny part is that I do zero advertising. So everything is like worth like people are coming to me word of mouth. And then I do some public speaking once again because people have seen me in The Black Expat, they've seen my writing. Maybe they know me from the career coaching and I get asked to speak. So the MBA side of me, if we take off the counseling side, but the MBA side of me is gonna say diversify your income as much as you can with all the skills that you have. <laugh>.  

Kristin:    01:07:12    Yeah. Basically being, and I have an MBA too, but we weren't taught this in business school.

Amanda:  No.

Kristin:  But it's basically being a mini enterprise, it's like thinking of yourself. Love it. Even if you're just one person with a job, it's  Thinking of yourself as a multifaceted company. What are the other things that you can do? And just do one at a time and then you can end up with this whole ecosystem of it's fun too.

Amanda:  Oh my gosh.

Kristin:  Of of products and different income streams. One of my new clients asked me last week like, why do you still do coaching if you have all of these other businesses? And it's because I like working with people one-on-one. So I take less clients now. Yeah. Than I used to. Like I used to only do one-on-one relocations and coaching. But now I am doing, you know, YouTube and content and other things too.  

Kristin:    01:08:02    So now I have a lot of different revenue streams. But I told him I'm going to always do consulting in some form. Because that at the end of the day is the point of all of the content. It's connecting with people. Yeah. On an individual level and helping each, each person, like each person that watches that video that is a human being with a full multifaceted life. Yeah. And dreams and plans. And that's also potentially someone that I could help.Through that piece of content are also one-on-one. And so it also helps just stay grounded and like drive the direction of what you're talking about on your podcast, what you're writing about. I get so much inspiration from coaching people and listening to their situation and their problems and helping them solve those. Because for each person I work with, there's probably 10 million with the same problems. Yeah, absolutely. Out there that wanna, that wanna hear the solution.

Amanda:    01:08:58    See, so  I can tell you're a great coach 'cause I'm like, she's speaking my love language. Look at that. She just <laugh>, I can just tell. So I'm, I'm lugging you without actually ever working. I'm like, you guys, you should hire her to be your coach. Thank you. Thank you.  

Kristin:    01:09:10    Well and you're working in education too, so at the end of the day we're all teachers. Yeah, yeah. Basically that's what we do.   

Amanda:    01:09:16    Yeah, Absolutely.  

Kristin:    01:09:17    Oh love it. So I'm going to actually sort of copy Tim Ferris in this closing question here because he always asks this question, I just listened to his podcast yesterday, so it's in the back of my head. But he closes with this question, I think it's in every episode of if you had a billboard, what would your message on it be like? What would you want it to say to the rest of the world? And so I think that would be really applicable in this case. Like if you had a billboard, and I don't wanna cut anyone out of this billboard, but black brown, whatever, colored people in any country around the world, this could be people that are thinking of moving abroad or traveling as a digital nomad or finding a remote job that lets them work from anywhere. But it could also be people that haven't even considered it yet because they're like those students that you were counseling that they didn't even know that was an option. So what would you wanna tell them?  

Amanda:    01:10:13    I would say, so if I had a billboard, I would say dream bank and then execute. Because the problem is, is that too often we hang out in the dreaming stage and then we stay there too long that we think we can't do it or we don't even take the steps to find out if it's a possibility. And I think that you would probably agree that if you actually start to do a little bit of the research and talk to people who are familiar in what you're trying to do, you start to figure out it's not as complicated as you think. In the people that I have interviewed and in and in my own life, all of their stories, I'm like, none of these people are like superheroes and superstars. I always say they are the most regular schmegular people who decided to do the most unregular things only because they were curious and were like, I'm terrified but I'm gonna find out anyway. So you don't even have to let go of the fear. Like be fear, be afraid, be very afraid, but also say, well while I'm afraid I'm gonna have my eyes like behind my hands while I'm looking, but oh my gosh, maybe I could move to Paris or I could move to Buenos Aires or I could move to Acra. So that's what I would say. I'd say dream big and then execute.  

Kristin:    01:11:34    I have chills right now and I'm gonna link to the podcast I listened to yesterday because the founder of Netflix said the exact same thing. <laugh>, he actually didn't say that on his billboard. His billboard was something weird. But his closing words were to take action.

Amanda:  Oh my gosh.

Kristin:  And this is a guy, he's probably a billionaire,

Amanda:  of course

Kristin:  he works with all these

Amanda:  of course

Kristin:  entrepreneurs. He's like, of everything I've seen, he is like the people that succeed are the ones who just started, who just took action. So I love that. It's so synergistic.  

Amanda:    01:12:03    <laugh> and guess what?

Kristin:  Hearing it from you,

Amanda:  Nike was totally on it. Which just do it like it seems simple. No, seriously, because and and we could definitely close on this as much as people go, how do you do all the things you're doing? I'm like, I just do it 'cause I love it. Why don't you just do it? And who cares if you fail? If you fail? Who's really, most people are not gonna laugh in your face because they're too scared to even try.  

Kristin:    01:12:25    They won't even know anyway.

Amanda: Exactly.

Kristin:  They might see something they won't even remember the next day that they saw  

Amanda:    01:12:30    <laugh>. Exactly.  

Kristin:    01:12:31    <laugh> just do it. Okay, so where can people connect with you, Amanda? 

Amanda:    01:12:36    Okay, so this is what's super simple. Um, if you look up TheBlackExpat.com <laugh>, obviously that's our website, but you could find us on Twitter, you can find us on Instagram, you can find us on Pinterest. All of it is The Black Expat as well as LinkedIn, which shockingly we have a lot of <laugh>, lot of activity. I shouldn't say that 'cause I'm a career person, but I'm always surprised as well as Facebook. And so if you send a message on the contact page, but just shoot me a message there and just let me know that, you know, if, if they're coming off of your podcast that this is where they heard and they wanna talk or wanna learn or just follow. I think we have some of the most entertaining conversations when we do IG lives and everything on social media. And I always say, you don't have to be black <laugh> to be, we have plenty of people who aren't black who, who chime in and it's okay. You're not gonna get jumped. So <laugh>, so come join us.  

Kristin:    01:13:31    Yes. And you're dominating that keyword by the way. The black, just Google, Google The Black Expat. You'll find her. Her podcast is the global chatter. Yeah. With The Black Expat and also <laugh>. Um, yeah, I'm glad that I can participate not being black because <laugh>, I was in a clubhouse room the other day. No, this was at the beginning of Clubhouse, I think it was a couple months ago now. It was Black Men Who Travel or something. <laugh>. And I was in that group and you know how you can see what people in are in. One of my friends texted me, he's like my mentor, he's like, I have a lot of respect for you <laugh>. I see that you're speaking, you're on the panel in Black Men who travel right now on Clubhouse for  --

Amanda:    01:14:13    Good for you come through <laugh>.

Kristin: He's like, I love that <laugh>.

Amanda:  Like I'm not even mad because so many people would be inti. I mean even if you were intimidated, you still did it. Like so many would just be like, this is not for me. And I, when you re a it called The Black Expat, everyone's just like, can I, I'm like, I don't,

Kristin:  can you watch? Can I read?

Amanda:  I'm like, I don't care if you, I like, I want you to read. And that's why I start the podcast so that everyone could feel like they could participate.  

Kristin:    01:14:41    <laugh>. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't mean to crash their party but I just was listening 'cause I like traveling too. I'm like, oh, I'm not a black man. But I like traveling and I was listening for a while and then someone was asking like a digital nomad related question. So I raised my hand and then I was  

Amanda:    01:14:55    You were, you were there. You were the one then. 

Kristin:    01:14:58   I was there. But yes. love it. The Black Expat. One of millions.  

Amanda:    01:15:00    One of millions. Thank you <laugh>.  

Kristin:    01:15:02    Amanda, thank you so much for coming and sharing your energy and laughter and travel tips and career tips. Love to have you here. Let's pencil in that.

Amanda:  Oh my gosh.

Kristin:  Domestic trip. We're gonna make it happen. 

Amanda:  Oh my gosh.

Kristin:  Two solo female travelers coming together in a place we've never been. 

Amanda:    01:15:19    Oh  my gosh. 

Kristin:    01:15:20    Meeting  for the first time. This is the world we live in. I love it. I'm here for it.

Amanda:    01:15:24    <laugh>. Thank you so much for having me. You. This is an awesome platform and I am, I'm so glad to share our story.  

Kristin:    01:15:32    Yay.  Keep it up. All right. Bye everybody. Thank you for listening.  

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