Jason Moore from the Zero To Travel Podcast on Life, Travel, and Living Abroad

Ready to Relocate program

Kristin:    00:00:00    If you are planning on moving abroad in the next year and you've been feeling overwhelmed and stressed about the process, then I can help. Applications are now open to my private group coaching program Ready to Relocate program, where I help you with my eight step process for planning your relocation anywhere in the world. I've been helping people move overseas since 2011, and I would be happy to help you. You can apply for my support today at travelingwithKristin.com/relocation. That's at travelingwithKristin.com/relocation, and you'll be ready to relocate sooner than you think. 

Introduction: Welcome to the Traveling with Kristin Podcast, your destination for travel tips, living abroad, advice and insights that help you experience life in foreign cultures. If you're interested in slow travel, living abroad or a digital nomad lifestyle, you're in the right place. I'm your host, Kristin Wilson, the author of Digital Nomads for Dummies and the host of Traveling with Kristin on YouTube. Thank you for traveling with me today and let's see where our journey takes us.

Kristin:    00:01:18    Kristin Wilson here from Traveling with Kristin, and welcome to episode 270 of the podcast. My guest today really needs no introduction. We are welcoming Jason Moore, the host of the Zero to Travel podcast, a legendary podcast that's been helping you travel the world on your own terms for many years now, this podcast has more than 12 million downloads, so it's one of the top travel podcasts out there. It's one that I've been personally listening to and being inspired by it for so many years, and so it's such a pleasure to welcome Jason onto the show today. You know, I had this idea to ask him about so many travel hacks and tangible stuff, but we really went pretty personal on this episode and Jason is really opening up a lot about his past that I knew nothing about and how he got started in the travel industry, which is definitely not what you expect.  

Kristin:    00:02:17    I was so shocked to hear the jobs that he told me that he was doing before he became a world traveler, digital nomad expert and podcaster. And we're also taking a deep dive into Norwegian culture with Jason telling us a bit about how he has struggled to assimilate and adapt in that culture, and hopefully his tips can help you adapt to whichever country or culture you find yourself in right now. Without further ado, let's jump into our conversation with Jason today and I'll see you on the other side. I am so excited to welcome Jason Moore to the podcast today. Welcome, Jason.  

Jason:    00:02:59    Thank you very much for having me. I'm so excited to be here with the original OG badass digital Nomad self, Kristin Wilson <laugh>. Thank you. This  

Kristin:    00:03:08    Is like a full circle moment, and of course we were just on your podcast, so everyone will definitely have to check that interview out. And you're joining me from your cool studio here in Norway, which I haven't seen before.  

Jason:    00:03:21    No, this is my Loftus, it's my loft office. We talked about, uh, my show Zero to Travel, which we just recorded and we had like, we're doing the little tables turn show swap kind of thing, and we were talking about labels and things like that. And so I've labeled this room The Loft, the Loft Loftus. I don't, I don't know if it works. Anyway, you can relate to this. Just finally after moving into this place a few years ago, having a space where I could walk in that's like sort of my creative space, if you will. You know, and it not being like, you know, the hotel bed or like the try to quiet corner in the hostel or the, uh, you know what I mean, like <laugh> just always like fighting for a little bit of solitude to kind of, now I can walk in and I have some different things that inspire me and it's, it's quite cool actually one of the perks of settling down.  

Kristin:    00:04:05    Oh, definitely. And you even have the, the arm that holds the microphone. I'm very jealous right now, <laugh>.  

Jason:    00:04:12    I mean you could, you could get the microphone arm, you could travel with that.  

Kristin:    00:04:15    I do have one, it's in my storage unit about 30 minutes away, <laugh>, but I'm a little bit cramped here. But yeah, I do wanna talk to you a little bit later about the, the differences that you've experienced and the different phases of the travel lifestyle that you've been in from backpacking to Nomad to settling down and, and Norway is one of my favorite countries, so I wanna ask you a bit more about the culture and your lifestyle there. Cool. But first I think, you know, depending on when people have come across your podcast or you know, maybe they haven't, uh, heard of it before, but millions of people have listened to your podcast, so they're all kind of joining you on this journey at different points in your life. And I don't remember exactly when it was that I first, you know, caught your first episodes, but when we started talking about doing this podcast show swap, I realized I didn't even really know much about your background or how you started, so I was wondering if you could share a little bit. Now I do know from listening to some other shows that you grew up in the suburbs of Philadelphia, correct?  

Jason:    00:05:17    Yeah, that's right. Yeah, and that's probably just before I get into a little bit of my backstory, I guess that's probably intentional because the show, like your show, it's really meant to be focused on the guests and providing value to the listeners. And yeah, I mean of course through that, when you spend as many hours talking as I have into a microphone, like, you know, you share some personal things and kind of like your thoughts on things and stuff like that, but all along the really the heart of Zero to Travel, the podcast was really, well, everything around it was just to help people travel the world on their terms and to kind of give people the tools for that. And it was like sort of, it started off as like I was trying to get all the information I wish I had when I was starting out and I was, you know, $20,000 in student debt and just just had like this dream to see the world and didn't really know how to do it.  

Jason:    00:05:59    Which kind of leads me back to, yeah, growing up in the suburbs of Philly and we were talking a bit about, uh, on my show with you about Unconventional Lives and sort of our backgrounds coming from sort of like a conventional Yeah, we're like, yeah, I was just more exposed to the conventional path, like, this is what you do, you go to, you go to college, then you get some kind of job and it, you know, nobody ever really told me that that job didn't have to like involve a cubicle or something, you know, even though I never did that thankfully, but it's just like that's the trajectory I thought I was supposed to be on coming from that environment. That's not to say like I didn't have a good childhood and you know, not super appreciative of everything, but you know, that trajectory wasn't exactly aligned with the goal of traveling. So then trying to figure that out was sort of like a combination of stumbling around following my heart, getting a little, maybe a little bit lucky and also being willing to take a bit of a leap as well.  

Kristin:    00:06:52    Yeah, actually I was wondering, you know, what were kind of your interests as a kid growing up in Philadelphia? What was the path or the trajectory that you thought you were going to be on before you stumbled into this travel lifestyle? Like, did you wanna be a doctor, a lawyer, a firefighter? What was your perspective on your future at that point?  

Jason:    00:07:13    Oh, like many teen or early 20 somethings, I had no clue what I wanted to do. <laugh> really, I mean, there were things I was interested in. I know we talked a bit about music and I know you're into making music and stuff like that. Even in high school I was in a rap bands not something I talk about very often, but like I got excited by music. But you know, it sounds like such a no-brainer because obviously you could do something in music, right? Like it's a whole industry, but you know, at that time when you're just young and there was no internet at this time, I almost needed somebody like an adult that's kind of say, Hey, did you know there are all these things you could do in music or these jobs? And I'm not saying I would've done that, but just like nobody ever really exposed me to anything besides, well, I just kind of thought, yeah, you go to college and then after that you're probably gonna have debt, which, you know, unless you have your, somebody taking care of your college, but I had $20,000 in debt and like, I have to pay that off.  

Jason:    00:08:08    So then you have to get some kind of a job. And generally those jobs were, to me like office jobs, that's just what they were. So I wasn't necessarily on a quest to be a specific thing. I did change my major in college to communication. So ironically I'm somehow using my major because it was like radio TV type of thing. Um, I didn't know at the time that I was gonna end up, I mean, I thought maybe, you know, that was what I was interested in. I was interested in radio tv, kind of like creating or being a part of something, but I'd never thought of myself as creating it. I thought I had to, you know, join some entity or some company. And so when I came out of college in December, which was an odd time because it was the winter, like either at that point, like I went a semester longer, so either my friends, some of my friends had already graduated or, and the rest of 'em were still, and they had jobs, but the rest of 'em were still in school.  

Jason:    00:08:58    And I was just like on my mom's couch watching Comedy Central, you know, like, what am I gonna do? I have this debt, I have to like get some kind of job. Now it's time for the real world College is over and I'm just looking at these jobs and I'm like, I don't even understand what these are. You know, I, I didn't go to any of the career day things. I don't know why <laugh>, I just like, I didn't know what to do. Getting a little depressed, just not sure. But I did know that I wanted to travel to Europe because I had some friends that studied abroad and I also had friends that did some backpacking after that. And they were showing me like some pictures and telling me about their stories. And that's just like, wow, like this is a thing you can do. You can, I know, again, it sounds so stupid, right? But like when you're early twenties and you're not, they didn't have, again, blogs and podcasts and things like of people telling you all about that. There's people that do this. Like, I didn't know anybody that did this except for my friends that told me about it. It wasn't in our culture, right? Growing up, we didn't have like the, the gap year like they do in England or the um, you know, what do you call it? Was it Gap?  

Kristin:    00:09:59    Yeah, the gap year. Yeah, they, I mean, no one said any of this. Like no, it was not on the list of jobs you could do.  

Jason:    00:10:06    No. So finding out about that and then committing to doing this sort of backpacking style trip to Europe was a big thing for me because I did then build my life around that commitment to travel to that first trip. And although that did get delayed a year plus a year and a half actually from the time I graduated, for a good reason, which I can explain in a minute, but it was that commitment to that trip that led to a life of travel. And that's something we talked a bit about before. It's like if you commit to a smaller thing that's travel oriented, it just might lead you to like the bigger vision you had or maybe a vision you didn't even know you had at the time. Because my vision was so small, it was like, I'll get like this two months in Europe and that's gonna be this like amazing life experience and then I'm gonna have to like go back.  

Jason:    00:10:55    I'm gonna have to find like a regular start, a regular life after that. But that wasn't true because what happened was I found a job that required travel, so I got to get paid to travel around and I can explain that's part of my story. And then, so I did that and I, and I did that for a year and a half and I saved money and then I went the following summer and did the backpacking trip. And then of course that just like blew my mind even wider open because I met a lot of like, you know, the Australians famously traveling for multiple years, you know, these people that are like, oh, you're traveling for two months? Like, I'm thinking that's a big deal. And they're like, yeah, I've been on the road for like three years, you know, I'm just like, what? Like this is a thing you can do.  

Jason:    00:11:35    And then just getting exposed to all that, the sort of the traveler subculture alongside of, you know, exploring the different cultures I was in and meeting people and from those countries and you know, having your mind blown open just from being in a different place and seeing how people live differently. As we all know, listening to this, those two things just kind of like put me into this euphoric state of like, I just wanna travel, it's all I wanna do. And then just, I kept finding ways to do it. And then I was a nomad for 10 years <laugh>. Long story short.  

Kristin:    00:12:07    Wow. So I, what was the job that you had when you were able to travel? So you're on your mom's couch watching tv, wondering what are you gonna make of your life? And then all of a sudden you get this idea to travel. How did you kind of fill in the pieces of saving money for that two month trip? And what were some of the odd jobs that you had before you realized some of the other things you could do for work long term?  

Jason:    00:12:32    So, I mean, your question's a good one, filling in the pieces and I, you know, like you'd like to do on your show and I like to do on my show is try to give some actionable advice along with this. And knowing that with the caveat that a lot of times when you're in the process of trying to figure something out, like building a life of travel for example, it's, you know, it can be messy and you're not like doing everything intentionally. You know, hindsight is 2020, so there's lessons that you're like, oh yeah, I see what I did there that, that was smart, I should do that again. And other things you just got maybe a little bit lucky. But I would say at the heart of it, and what I would encourage anybody listening to do wherever they're trying to go next, like physically or in business or whatever, it's just kind of like, you know, committing to one thing is really helpful.  

Jason:    00:13:16    And I think once you kind of put everything through the lens of that decision, then it just makes your decisions easier because decision fatigue can be real. And if you don't, you don't necessarily have to, like thinking back then, like not knowing what, what I wanted to do with my career, not knowing a lot about myself and like things I might wanna do in business and life with the, whatever career would mean. The one thing I did know was I wanted to travel and because I knew that it was, it was like, okay, well let's look at the next thing. How can I, do I have, you know, these student debt bills that are gonna come due here in six months, I have to make some kind of living. Oh, okay, well what if I get a job that requires me to travel? What if I became like a flight attendant or something?  

Jason:    00:14:02    You know, you could think about the obvious jobs, but there's a lot of non-obvious jobs too. And you know, my media thought was kind of like, well those, it's probably like everybody wants those jobs, right? Like who doesn't wanna like travel the world and get paid to do it? But actually most people don't want to <laugh>, they, they wanna live somewhere like people don't wanna do, they're not psycho like me, they didn't want to travel on the road for, you know, 10 months outta the year with some random event going around the country because it's just not a normal job. Right? And so, yeah, now that first gig I did is exactly what I did. I became a tour manager for a marketing company and they were managing a charity event where kids would race modified lawn tractors around a Kmart parking lot and they would donate $5 for every kid that raced to a local drug prevention charity.  

Jason:    00:14:50    And our job as tour managers was to go around and we were like glorified carnies. We called ourselves <laugh>, we would, you know, we would set up this race track and like, you know, make sure these lawnmowers were running, which they were always broke down. So we had to learn how to fix like lawnmower engines and manage like volunteer groups and go into all kinds of different neighborhoods and kind of connect with the community there. There was a lot of pieces to that job and a lot of skills that I needed to build actually. But you know, how it started was the search for a job that would require me to travel. And I think the openness of saying it almost doesn't matter what I do as long as I can, it gets me on the road. And it turned out that, you know, this job was challenging, it was fun and it allowed me to see the country and I was making a whole $500 a week and I was like, oh my gosh, this is so much money.  

Jason:    00:15:42    And then I was making $30 a day and per diem, you know, for food and stuff. Yeah. Which was like icing on the cake. And they gave us a van, they paid for all our fuel, we paid for all our hotels. And you know, we traveled around the country for like 10 months and it turns out this is a whole industry called experiential marketing where there were these traveling events that needed these tour managers. And I fell into it and ended up doing it for basically a little over a decade. And I also ended up doing some music tour, like tour managing a band and got into like the music touring thing. Towards the end of that. It just led to this whole career as a touring professional. And it was because I decided I wanna travel and then I, you know, did sort of my job search based on my goal to travel. And that's something I always talk to people about with business, right? Like kind of reverse engineering at the same way. Like you pick the lifestyle you wanna live, you kind of like think about the life you wanna live and then you try to build your business around that. I think it's a great way to approach things.  

Kristin:    00:16:37    Wow, that's fascinating. I had no idea. I knew that you were an event manager of some kind, but I did not <laugh>, I did not expect to see you repairing tractors in the Kmart parking lot.  

Jason:    00:16:47    Oh, so many random jobs. I mean, you know, I've done makeovers at Walmart on a double decker bus as a DJ as well, Kristin doing some DJing up there in the top deck at Walmart. At Walmart, you spend a lot of time in big box retail parking lot <laugh> and promotions <laugh>. Yeah, I mean I did this meow mix thing. We were driving a like a, like, like a giant cat mobile across, if you search the Meow Mix mobile, you'll see it. Oh  

Kristin:    00:17:11    That for I Meow Mix Mobile. Who doesn't know that? Uh,  

Jason:    00:17:14    Have you seen it  

Kristin:    00:17:14    Iconic? Uh, I don't know if I've seen it in person. I must have. Okay.  

Jason:    00:17:18    Yeah, well I drove that thing for a couple tours doing like a jingle contest and we did like a game show, what do you call it? Like an open audition for a, the first game show for pets and their pet parents in cities across the us. I did like promotions in some bit of Mexico. Yeah. Just all kinds of weird sort of random jobs and fun too. And met a lot of great people and built a lot of great skills.  

Kristin:    00:17:42    Wow. Yeah. What do you think are some of the skills that have crossed over from the analog marketing days, let's say of Yeah, <laugh>, the meow mix van to digital marketing that a lot of people are involved in today and also content marketing.  

Jason:    00:17:56    Yeah. You know, I don't know if you'd call this digital marketing, but I, I've, I have thought about this. It's a good question, Kristin. I mean, you know, I can go with the obvious things like when you're leading the charge on a tour like that and you don't know what you're doing as a tour manager, you know, you have to develop some leadership skills pretty quickly. You have to be able to build rapport with a lot of different types of people from, you know, local sort of laborers. Like literally guys and gals, like some of them talking to some of them had some interesting conversations. I mean, you might be working alongside somebody that like, just got outta jail last week, you know? like that kind of, you know, getting paid like minimum wage in like poor areas going from like talking to that person to like, you know, talking to like a Disney executive and then like peering on a morning TV show and then talking to somebody at the marketing company and then dealing with employees at like the big box retail store to try to coordinate stuff.  

Jason:    00:18:48    It was just like all kinds of different people. And the, you know, I could list a whole bunch of things I learned from those experiences touring and working as a tour manager and a touring professional. But I would say relating it back to what I do today, you know, the whole 10,000 hour rule, like the Malcolm Gladwell thing where they're like the Beatles got their 10,000 hours of practice, like in that small club in Hamburg, Germany, when they played like, you know, six hours a night for however long. Yeah. And what I realized is, wow, I just connected these dots I think a few years ago, like all of those conversations and connecting with people is, was like my 10,000 hours for doing interviews and doing podcasts, you know, because that is the job essentially, if you have an interview show, your job is to facilitate a conversation and make people feel comfortable, make the guests feel comfortable, and also be able to facilitate it in a way that hopefully is interesting for the listener. And so, you know, I didn't have the listener aspect of course, but that idea of kind of like being able to just make somebody feel comfortable to either participate in a promotional event that we were running or to work with us, like making them feel comfortable there for the day if they're working with us for the day and all different types of people from all walks of life. I think that really carried over into what I do today on the podcast.  

Kristin:    00:20:04    Oh, definitely. Because, well, not only do you have a good podcast voice, but you just seem so comfortable. I mean, it's clear that you've done it for 10,000 hours at least, but I thought that all of that experience came from you've been podcasting since what, 20 15, 20 16? Around there or before then  

Jason:    00:20:24    Even? Yeah, before I, yeah, I published the first one right at the end of 2013, like November, 2013.  

Kristin:    00:20:29    Wow. Yeah. So you've got more than 10 years of podcasting, but then you also have 10 years of off the record experience talking to people of all walks of life. That is so interesting.  

Jason:    00:20:40    Yeah. I've never talked about that on a, on a show before. But I, so it was a great question. I think that, uh, yeah, this is a good example I think for people listening that you know, no matter what you're doing, like you might be listening right now and you have, maybe you're somebody who is a digital, no matter, maybe you're somebody who's dreaming about it. I don't know. Everybody's in various stages and various things, but you can never discount your current experience no matter how trivial you might think it seems in some ways, right? Like you might be, you know, maybe somebody here's working at Starbucks and they're like, how is this gonna help me? You know, in my digital nomad career, this isn't helping me. You know, like it's easy to have those sort of attitudes sometimes, but there are skills that always come back and there are experiences you have at any job or in any work environment in my experience, that seemed to come back and help you later on in some way, shape, or form.  

Jason:    00:21:31    And I think that that excites me because like, it, it can make you feel good about wherever you're at today, right? You can be like, it doesn't matter what I'm doing. Like this has value. You know? 'cause everybody can get down. Like if you're in a job you hate and you wanna leave and you're just like, this sucks. Like, I wanna travel, I'm, I'm in like the money saving mode, you know, I can't do it yet, whatever, for whatever reason. Maybe you're caretaking for a family me. Like people have so many reasons why maybe they can't do it right now, but knowing that everything you're doing right now has a value and is going to help you in some way later on. I think it's empowering.  

Kristin:    00:22:04    Oh, definitely. That's such an important point that you made. And I actually, when I used to do some career coaching, I would ask people, you know, what did you think that you were good at during childhood? Or what did people say that you were good at? Or what were your interests? Or, you know, when you take your resume and you break down all of the different skills that you have, I would guess that a lot of people have to cut out 80% of what they've done when they make a new resume or a new CV because it just doesn't fit on one page or two pages. And when you really start to break apart all of the different skills that go into even doing one project, like even if you don't have any work experience, you've been to school, you know, maybe you've worked some odd jobs at minimum wage, you've worked on group projects and high school or college, like all of that is fodder for your future job.  

Kristin:    00:22:59    And you know, thinking back as you were saying that, I was like, wow, you know, I didn't realize, or I hadn't thought about it until you just said that, of how long I've been like quote unquote performing, like probably performing in dance recitals and I was in a circus when I was a kid. Wow. Doing acrobatics and stuff. Yeah. And like all of that gymnastics, presenting things, all of that actually helps for making a business presentation or Yeah. A YouTube video or speaking on camera. It's like things that you don't even think about that you just assume, you know, it's just like whatever skill that, you know, maybe you weren't getting paid for that thing, but you know how to do it. Those all can be hints to what you could do for work.  

Jason:    00:23:42    Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's so cool. Yeah. It's, I just, yeah, I think it just makes you, it can make you feel good about whatever you're doing, I feel, even if there's some days that you feel bad about it.  

Kristin:    00:23:51    Yeah. And, and then at what point in this, in your career did you think, okay, I wanna transition to an international travel lifestyle or I want to work remotely. I don't even know if remote work was a thing then, but you know, when did you decide that you wanted to swap the, the road trip life? and you know, the hotels and everything for a different type of travel lifestyle.  

Jason:    00:24:15    It's funny you use the word career because when it started out I didn't, again, even after that first job doing the lawn tractor race thing, <laugh>, I just thought, look, this is like a once in a lifetime. You know, we're gonna travel across the US and we're gonna go all these places and I'm never gonna get to do this again. And then I did like another gig and then I did the back, the solo backpacking trip to Europe, which again, at the time I didn't really know anybody who had done solo travel, you know, I just thought I was some weirdo, but I was doing it whatever. 'cause I, I couldn't find anybody else to go with. Yeah. And then I just was like, well I wanna, you know, at the heart of it was like, I just wanna keep this travel thing going. And it seemed like the best.  

Jason:    00:24:50    And one of the more fun ways to do that and also pay my bills and save money was to just keep doing these touring jobs. So then I committed to just like networking and getting more gigs and stuff like that. And it just snowballed into this career. I'm using air quotes, but you know, in that and when you're a tour manager for events. And then I became a tour manager for a band later. But like, you know, there's nowhere really, like the place you could go after that that is going up is probably working in the office, which I got a job offer like halfway through my touring career to come in the office and to do some event production and stuff. And I seriously considered it, but it was going to interfere with a trip to Thailand, Kristin <laugh> a whole like, you know, three week trip to Thailand or something. Or one month  

Kristin:    00:25:33    Priorities. Yeah.  

Jason:    00:25:34    Priorities. So, but again, I know it sounds silly 'cause it's like you're gonna turn down like a building this career to just for like one month in Thailand, but like prioritizing travel was the thing. Yeah. And so to answer your question, what happened was, I think just the touring thing kind of, I was certainly challenging and there was certainly a lot of hard jobs and you know, some of 'em you're working like over a hundred hours a week, you know, week in and week out. And, you know, the schedule as exciting as it was to just travel to these different cities. And thankfully in event touring, you actually, unlike music touring, you don't really get to see much. 'cause you're just like at the venue you set up, you have dinner, you play the gig, and then you, you know, sleep on the bus on the way to the next place.  

Jason:    00:26:13    But with events you actually get time off in different places and you get to really live in different places, at least all over the US But, you know, your schedule's dictated to you. And after coming across the 4-Hour Workweek and just kind of like putting all the sort of pieces together, I went to the World Domination Summit, which is a conference that is no longer taking place. But I went to the first one in 2012 and I met all of these people. There was like a hundred people there, I think, no, maybe 500, sorry, that were doing all of these unconventional jobs. The, the, the central heart of that conference was how do you live an unconventional life in a conventional world? That was like the sort of heart of it. And I'm like, these are my people Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:26:53    Ahead of their time.  

Jason:    00:26:54    Yeah. And so, yeah, this is in 2012. So then I came across all these people that were just like doing really cool stuff online and they were just doing it by being themselves, you know? 'cause before that I thought online marketing and, you know, being able to make a living online was like, you know, sales pages with like lots of yellow highlights and like red marks and I don't know if you know what I'm talking about. It's like this, this sort of like scammy internet marketing vibe and then  

Kristin:    00:27:21    Copywriting.  

Jason:    00:27:22    Yeah. And then I just realized, oh, like this person. Yeah. These people were just yeah. Serving people in a cool way and, and just like being themselves. And I was just like, this is the thing. This is like the next thing. I wanna be become a location independent entrepreneur so I can control my own schedule and be wherever I want to be. And I want to do something that I enjoy. And you know, the first iteration of that wasn't like, was just using the skills and the network that I had in the event industry. So then I did, uh, start working as a business development consultant for, uh, an event staffing company because I had relationships at different event marketing agencies. And so I was able to leverage those and bring in business for a buddy of mine who I met through work. And so it was just like, it wasn't like the thing I wanted to do long term, but it was the springboard and it was the sort of the transitional piece.  

Jason:    00:28:10    And so I was, I was like, I don't, I'll do this. My buddy Joey, I'm like, he owns the company, still runs to this day. I'm like, I'll do this, but like, as long as you're cool with me doing it from anywhere. And again, going back to the lifestyle thing, that was like, that was the stipulation. He's like, I don't care. As long as you can bring a business, I don't care where you're doing it from. I'm like, cool. Wow. And so then I started doing that in 2012 doing the digital nomad thing. And that's when, yeah, I had met my wife, uh, years prior. That's a whole other story. And we started dating, she's Norwegian. And so then I was able to like come to Norway and like, you know, I was working odd hours and it was kind of crazy, but I was able to be here and spend time with her and like date her and that whole thing and still work. And so then I started yeah, living the digital nomad location, independent entrepreneur lifestyle, which eventually led to moving to Norway and, and living here permanently. So.  

Kristin:    00:28:59    Wow. I'm so glad you shared that story because I think, you know, a lot of people know a lot of different things about you, but I don't know if anyone has ever known that transition that you went through. And were you living in Philadelphia that whole time or were you No. Um, were you a nomad in the US?  

Jason:    00:29:17    It's a good question. I, 'cause I missed a huge chunk. I spent like several years living in Boulder, Colorado. Oh, okay. Which was one of my favorite places I had gone. And so when I came off touring the first time, decided to spend like six weeks in Boulder and loved it. I've rented a buddy of mine's house who they went like traveling Central America and my girlfriend and I at the time were just taking over their house. It was funny, it was like the old switcheroo <laugh>. They were at the beginning of their sort of wanderings and I was at sort of, at the end in a way. Yeah. And then I, I just was having a base in Boulder, Colorado, and I was doing some gigs there locally and I was touring sometimes for like short gigs. And then I spent two years working outside sales as a, at a liquor distributor. So we'd like still fun stuff. Like I was, you know, in and out of bars and restaurants all day in Boulder, you know, basically selling like booze <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:30:05    Yeah. Oh gosh. I, I have friends that have worked in that and it seems quite a dynamic industry. I mean, you learn so much there. It's like sales, human interaction, you know, you're working with so many people, crazy hours and Yeah. Marketing events.  

Jason:    00:30:22    Yeah. So that was my only real job, but I didn't have to work in an office. Um, I, the other jobs were real jobs, but they were contract jobs, you know, they weren't full-time. This was an actual full-time job. And, uh, so it's been really interesting because even after having all the experience before that, of doing these sort of wacky contract jobs or what might appear wacky on the surface, <laugh>, and then, you know, moving somewhere and then having like a re even even though I was like, I knew what was possible, it was still kind of hard to let go of like the regular paycheck. So I can really understand how people feel when they're like leaving a job. Because even though I only had that job for two years and having all the experience doing the unconventional thing, I still, it was still like the golden handcuffs in a way, you know? Yeah. I'm like, but this job's cool, you know, like maybe, you know, I could keep doing it like I got health insurance, you know? Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:31:11    It's like if it's not broken <laugh>, but then sometimes you gotta break it anyway and break out of that routine. Yeah.  

Jason:    00:31:19    I needed to make the leap to the location independent lifestyle. Like it just, the job wasn't gonna work full-time. And for anybody listening, here's how, you know, if a job's not gonna work full-time. You ready?  

Kristin:    00:31:28    Yes. <laugh> with bated breath. Yeah.  

Jason:    00:31:30    If you look at like every position above you and you don't want to do any of them <laugh>, it's not gonna work. <laugh> good  

Kristin:    00:31:40    Litmus test there.  

Jason:    00:31:41    <laugh>. Like, there could be, like, there were various roles like above me, there were various roles, like to the side of me, you know, like different things you could do at the company. It's a whole industry, right? And I'm like, where, where would I go from here? Like, I don't wanna do any of this. like, this job's cool, but like I can do this for one more year and then I'm outta here because I don't wanna do any of these other jobs. Like, it's just, they don't appeal to me. Right. And so that's a good, yeah, it's good. Litmus test. You  

Kristin:    00:32:04    Weren't gonna be a lifer over there. No. And then have you ever shared the story? I mean, I'm, I'm a little bit aware of how you met your wife while you were traveling, I believe, uh, in Brazil, if I'm not mistaken. But have you ever shared that story about how you actually met?  

Jason:    00:32:20    Yeah, I, I have, but I can share it with you quickly. So basically I saw her come down the stairs at the hostel and that was that. No <laugh>. Wow. No, I mean, uh, it's funny because yes, we met in 2008. It's a bit dramatic because at the time I was with somebody else and, you know, it wasn't like necessarily cool to meet somebody at that time for me. Yeah. Um, but I was actually, I was honest with everybody. I was honest with my wife, who's now my wife, you know, after I, well, maybe after a day or two of hanging out I was like, actually I'm in like this relationship, whatever. I was all confused. But yeah. Came back, ended up like back with the other woman I was with after like, kind of working that out and talking about it and blah, blah. It's a long story, Kristin.  

Jason:    00:33:03    We don't need to go uhhuh too crazy. But anyway, long story short, four years passes, then I'm, it's like single for a period of time and yeah. An aorta. My wife and I had had this like sort of handful of days of hanging out in Brazil and I guess we just, you know, still kept thinking about each other and stuff. So we got back in touch and then we started like writing and, you know, doing Skype calls and all this stuff. Long story short, we decide to meet up in New York. I'm just kind of like, if we're not gonna talk any, like if we're not gonna see each other, we should probably either like get together and hang out and see if this is a thing or like not talk anymore. 'cause we live like 4,000 miles apart. Yeah. You know, it just didn't seem sustainable. And so we decided to meet up in New York City and then we're just like, oh, this, the magic's here. And so blah, blah. Now we're married and I have two kids, two kids, and we're about to celebrate our 10th wedding anniversary. So.  

Kristin:    00:33:53    Wow. I mean, it's kind of nuts. It's kind of like a fairytale in that sense. I mean, my mom and dad, like my dad says that he saw my mom walking across the lawn at their dorm at Florida State. And it was like he knew in that second, like, that's my future wife. So I think that does happen to people. <laugh>. Yeah. Has it happened to you and then you're kind of linked  

Jason:    00:34:15    Together? Yeah, it took a little while. If we got together then it would've been a disaster, but, uh, yeah, it's a good thing. We kind of had like, you know, figured our own stuff out. Um, interesting. But yeah, it's, uh, you know, I will say too, like for anybody out there who hasn't traveled and they're, they're looking to, uh, maybe meet somebody on the road or something, there is something about like, 'cause when I saw an aorta and we were at a hostel, it's like, because she was at a hostel, she already like checked a bunch of boxes in my mind. you know, she was like, already vetted. Like, I'm like, if she's cool enough just to like stay in hostels and deal with like that whole environment and, you know, dirty showers and, you know, in some place, not every place, but you know what I mean. Some hostiles can be, you know, nicer than others. But I'm like, if she's cool enough to stay in a host, like she's gotta be cool, you know, <laugh>. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:35:07    This ad break was originally intended for Unbound Merino, a Merino wool company that makes clothing especially geared towards travelers. And while I don't deny that the clothing is durable and comfortable, after doing extended research on the wool industry and how these garments are made, I have decided to indefinitely stop promoting and wearing wool clothing. Wool is often marketed as a sustainable and renewable resource, but much of the certifications are around the quality of the wool and not the treatment of the animals. There are very harmful practices such as mulesing, where the skin of the animals is removed without anesthesia. And although Unbound Merino commits to sourcing their wool from farms that don't use this practice, there are many other areas of concern which are basically unavoidable in the wool industry from the high death rate of lambs to the early age at which lambs and sheep are slaughtered to the injuries that sheep often sustain during the shearing process to remove their wool.  

Kristin:    00:36:21    According to a report from Vox News wool in particular operates stealthily under many layers of mythology from the legends of golden fleece to biblical images of sheep peacefully grazing in open pasture. But wool is not a fiber simply provided by nature. It's a scaled product of modern industrial, chemical, ecological, and genetic intervention that's a significant contributor to the climate crisis. Land degradation water use, pollution and biodiversity loss. And although wool shearing is widely misperceived to be merely a benign quote unquote haircut for sheep, the modern sheep industry, like all factory farming, is egregiously violent from an environmental perspective, wool is far from sustainable. In fact, greenhouse gas emissions from wool are up to 10 times higher than other fabrics such as nylon, cotton, and polyester. Due to marketing from the wool industry, up to 87% of people believe that wool is safe for the environment and sustainably produced.  

Kristin:    00:37:31    But unfortunately it's not. The reason I'm including this in the podcast today is that I feel a great sense of duty and responsibility to only bring to your awareness companies that I respect and products that I use. While I don't want to single out Unbound merino, I truly believe that there is no ethical and humane way to harvest wool from live animals. Traveling has long been way for me to open my eyes and open my mind to the world. And its many different cultures. It's a way to question your beliefs and question your habits. And I'm always open to changing in light of new facts and information. In this case, I was unaware of the damage and harm that is caused by the wool industry and unaware that my purchasing habits were contributing to this harm. Therefore, I wanted to be very transparent in this podcast that I've decided to go a different way and to stop promoting these types of products.  

Kristin:    00:38:39    And if you would like more information, then I will link to a few resources in the show notes that describe some of the reasons why I am posting this message for you here today. There are so many issues of concern in the world today with the way that our society operates and it can be overwhelming to try to keep tabs on all of them. But I do feel a great responsibility to be transparent to you and I will always do so in the future. Thank you for your attention here. I hope that if this has piqued your interest, that you will also do more research into the foods that you eat, the products you buy, and the clothing that you wear. And let's continue with our episode today.  

Kristin:    00:39:26    I wanted to ask because you know, a lot of people do want to meet somebody either when they're traveling or in a different country. I was just researching for a video on places to retire and I found out that so many people in that go to the Philippines are applying for the marriage visa. And you know, that's a visa that there's a, a marriage visa in every country, but it's like there's actually groups of people going to certain countries specifically to get married. Mm-Hmm. And yeah, so it's different for everybody. I'm, I'm actually in a really similar situation right now, so I'm, uh, personally interested in that, where it's like I knew somebody in another country a couple of years ago, like we met and then he had a girlfriend and then we didn't talk. We just kind of vaguely stayed in touch. Mm-Hmm. On social media. And then when I was back in that country, I'm not giving any information about who this person is. I was back in that country.  

Jason:    00:40:22    What country? Just tell us what country, at least  

Kristin:    00:40:24    <laugh>. Okay. I can tell it's the Netherlands. Okay. And then we met up just to like hang out, you know, 'cause we were just friends. Like nothing had happened. Yeah. And then we just kind of hit it off and then we're like doing a long distance thing. But then it was like, okay, well we're on different continents so let's take a break because what are we doing? This doesn't make any sense. Mm-Hmm. But then we took a break for like five months and then we started talking again and now we're just kind of back to long distance talking.  

Jason:    00:40:52    Right.  

Kristin:    00:40:53    You know, video calls and stuff. But I, I don't really know <laugh>. I don't know where it's going, but,  

Jason:    00:40:57    Oh man. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:40:58    I mean eventually we're gonna have that point where it's like, like you said, either we're gonna go meet again and figure this out or we're just gonna stop talking because it's a waste of time otherwise.  

Jason:    00:41:09    Yeah. Well you guys gotta go meet up in New York then. That's what you have to do, <laugh>. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:41:13    We're just gonna  

Jason:    00:41:13    Follow, just  

Kristin:    00:41:14    Make a list of what to do. We'll just step by step. Yeah. Yeah. Well this leads me well into living in Norway, which I know you have talked about a bit on, on your podcast, but I'm really, uh, just curious.  

Jason:    00:41:26    Well, wait, hold on. Hold on. Kristin. Curious, what are you gonna do? 

Kristin:    00:41:29    <laugh>.Oh, I don't know. Well we're gonna meet, but we probably can't meet till like later this summer or later this year. 'cause he's moving and saving money. And I don't wanna go anywhere 'cause I'm paying crazy rent to live in Miami. Yeah. Like, just being alive every day here is draining my bank account. So I don't wanna be paying so much to be here. And then also Right. And the g Yeah. You know, traveling at the same time. Yeah. When the whole point of being here was to not travel. So he, if he wants to come here, he can come here. Yeah. And visit me.  

Jason:    00:42:00    There you go. The gauntlet has been thrown. Yes.  

Kristin:    00:42:03    <laugh> Or we can meet in the middle. We had originally planned to meet somewhere like Spain or Portugal. It's not really in the middle but somewhere else.  

Jason:    00:42:11    Well listen, I'm just gonna say, I'm gonna talk right now to this mystery man directly. You better get over to Miami 'cause Kristin is one cool lady. So there you go. Alright. Sorry. It's just my plug. <laugh>. Thank  

Kristin:    00:42:24    You. Well now we have a story to follow. I'm curious to know how it will turn out as well. So I look forward, I look forward to finding that out. <laugh> me. We'll  

Jason:    00:42:32    Check back in later this year. Me too. <laugh>  

Kristin:    00:42:34    To be continued. Nice. Yeah. So I know <laugh>, you know that when you first, you know, got over to Norway and you were staying with your now wife and you know, kind of traveling, working remotely, things like that. Did you see yourself, you know, becoming a Norwegian citizen as you are now? Or what were kind of your first impressions of the, the culture and the lifestyle there?  

Jason:    00:42:55    It was, you know, when you, when you're kind of dreaming from afar about going to a place like I used to pull out like the Norway guidebooks and just wonder what would it be like if I lived in Norway. Like it's a real possibility and you have like sort of that traveler's dream. I think every traveler has this, right? Like you'll go to a place and you just have that moment where you're like, Hmm, I wonder what it would be like to live here. You know, you have that, you sort of like entertain that fantasy and a lot of times that fantasy doesn't match up with reality <laugh>. And that's not to say that life in in Norway is, is bad. It's, there's great things about it and there's challenging things about it. And I think that's just, and you know, because you were an expat abroad and like you were living in, uh, you know, it's like, you know, it's funny 'cause you were living in Costa Rica and that's like sort of the next fantasy land for me. Like I, I visited in Costa Rica in the late nineties, but I haven't been since. Oh wow.  

Kristin:    00:43:47    It's changed. Yeah.  

Jason:    00:43:48    I'm sure it has. But like in my head it's like if I could just live somewhere, like, it's so funny 'cause if I, we, I was like at some point during the winter here in Norway with the darkness and the cold and everything, at some point I inevitably lose my mind and I just somehow blurred out. That's it. We're moving to Costa Rica. <laugh>. <laugh>. I don't know why Costa Rica's like that place for me. I think 'cause I had such a great time there and the surfing and the warm, well I know why the warm water and blah blah blah. But we didn't know where we were gonna live. Actually, we, my wife had like left her job at that point. And then she had come to Colorado for a few months, decided she wanted to go back to Norway to see family. We were already married at this time.  

Jason:    00:44:27    And then I would say we got pregnant. But that's stupid because she did. But you know what I mean, we had it's politically correct. Yeah. Yeah. We had to make a decision and then it's just right then and there and those, like within almost instantaneously, it was a wild emotional day. We were up near my wife's like families, my in-laws and they live out in rural Norway and it's just really beautiful area. And we were staying in this cabin and it was like, I just found out I'm gonna have a child. And then also I found out like my life in Colorado as I know it is over because the clear choice that we were making for our kids was to live in Norway because it just, it just was like a better place to raise kids, you know? Oh yeah. Um, and financially there was a lot of things with, you know, maternity leave and maternity leave. You get like a year, you know, you have subsidized daycare, like Oh, just, there's so many. It's endless list of things. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:45:20    The men as well, right? Yeah. Yes. Well, I don't know if you did, 'cause you work for yourself, but did you get paternity leave?  

Jason:    00:45:25    Uh, yeah. Well she took most of it because yeah, that was like a visa thing. And like with the first one, I think she was able to take all of it because I wasn't necessarily like, I can't remember 'cause I had like a different visa then I had a family immigration visa. Mm-Hmm. Then later I had a permanent residency. And that was different because that, and when we had my son, I got part of that. But yes, it's maternity and paternity. You can split it up however you want. Like it, like, it doesn't have to be the woman that takes most of it. It can be the guy. It just, it's usually the woman because she's, you know, breastfeeding and in, in that way. Yeah. It's like, you know, you're more, they're needed more in that way at least, you know, every situation's different. But yeah.  

Jason:    00:46:00    So it was just a, it was a crazy day and so I had to kind of like mourn. I was so excited for like the, this new chapter but also kind of mourning my life that like in Colorado was basically coming to a close. Yeah. So it was an interesting way to kick it off. Uh, but you know, I don't know if this <laugh> answers your question. 'cause going back to when I first came in 2012, when I had the location independent gig going and I was able to come over and I told her I was coming for a visit and she's like, how long are you staying? And I was like, three months. Then there was just silence on the phone. <laugh>. I was like, uhoh, <laugh>. But anyway, I came to visit and one of the first things we did, and this is a great way to get to know a country a little bit, was we took a road trip. We took like a 10 day road trip around around Norway. And you, you've been here, you know, it's like almost like driving through a national park all the time. It's just like epic. Oh yeah.  

Kristin:    00:46:49    Stunning.  

Jason:    00:46:49    Yeah. Stunning. Epic nature. Epic. Yeah. Just like, had a great time, met cool people, you know, it was just like, it's a totally, it's a different culture, but you know, how do you grade that? Right? Like, it's not maybe as different as it would be like for me to move to, I, I've never been to Papua New Guinea, but like, I imagine like Scandinavia and American culture is, if there's a spectrum, it's like maybe closer than certain other countries would be. Yeah. You know, but you really, like, you're not looking to be, you're not looking for similarities. You're looking to like assimilate into the new culture. Hmm. And so that just takes time. And I think like for anybody moving abroad, and you know this from your experience, you have to expect that there's gonna be like this honeymoon phase where you kind of like, you're experiencing everything for the first time.  

Jason:    00:47:33    You know? And it's just like, it's like traveling again, but like extended, you know, it can last for like, it was like a good couple years until like the third, you know, Norwegian Christmas or whatever. I was like, all right, I know what this is, you know, but it was a good couple years of just like so much newness and kind of whatever, and then you kind of settle into the regular life. And then you have the normal challenges you have for anybody that moves to a new place, but maybe there's some extra ones, right? Like you're trying to make friends, you're trying to build community, you're trying to figure out like how to run a business there. You know? I mean, there's all kinds of challenges. And so when you sign up for that, just know that you're signing up for not just like the idyllic part, but you're also signing up for those challenges, which is not a bad thing, actually. You know, these challenges like help you develop as a person. It's just that know that that time will come and, you know, it can be tough, but like, life anywhere can be tough. Life is filled with ups and downs, so  

Kristin:    00:48:26    Yeah. I mean, you've definitely got your pros and cons there. I, I've never been there during the, the darkness, the hardest part. I was there. Oh, the winter. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That would be tough. Yeah. Because if you're a nomad, you just go for a few months and then you leave. And, and that's the way that the nomads kind of cherry pick around the world. But if you have a family, it's like you're not just gonna leave for six months a year unless you have a home somewhere else. So you gotta take the good with the bad. Yeah. What about your friend circle there? Is it mostly Norwegians or is it a mix of foreigners as well? Uh,  

Jason:    00:49:00    It's both. Uh, so I play in a rock band here with a bunch of Norwegians and a guy from Iceland, and that's super fun. Those are like my tightest friends. And then I have, you know, neighbors that we hang out with, which is really cool. Uh, we live in like a really pretty cool community where a lot of people are in the same like, stage in life. They got kids, and we have a place where it's like traffic free and right next to the forest so people can like, you know, like you'll just, like, I'll be cooking dinner and then I turn around and there's like five kids in my house, <laugh>, <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:49:28    I  

Jason:    00:49:28    Love that. I'm like, oh, hey everybody. You know, it happens more in the summer, you know, in the winter people are a little more, it's not as easy to run over to somebody's house through, you know, two feet of snow or whatever. Yeah. So that's cool, you know? And yeah, I think that, you know, wherever you are, wherever you end up, you listening it, it's, uh, it's about like, kind of thinking about the lifestyle you wanna have and trying to end up in a place that checks a lot of those boxes. And the place we ended up at now when we were ready to move out of the city, and when we had our kids and stuff, we were living in a 52 square meter apartment with two kids for a while. Try that one on for size. Wow. Uh, <laugh>. But then we eventually got this place near the woods, and yeah, so Norwegian neighbors, Norwegian band. And then I also have some expat friends that work in tourism here. And yeah, it's a pretty cool mix actually. And I, I need to have that mix because sometimes you just want to throw out a bunch of jokey references that somebody else will get, and like, the Norwegians aren't necessarily gonna get that, but my American friends will. So  

Kristin:    00:50:26    Yeah, it kind of makes me think a little bit of how, I imagine it would be like to assimilate in France. I've only traveled to France a lot of times, but I've never lived there. But I interviewed another woman named Tula who lives there, and she was saying that, you know, the French have this stereotype of not being very friendly, kind of standoffish. And I think Norway kind of has that where, because the people are at first quite reserved and polite. Yeah. And not overly, you know, gregarious and outgoing, but then once you get to know them, I mean, they're just so nice and they're such good friends. Like, not speaking for everybody, but like, if you're walking down the sidewalk and Oslo, people aren't just gonna come up to you and say hi the way they might do. Actually in Manchester, where I was living last year, just talk to lots of strangers on the sidewalk. But then, yeah, once you meet them under a controlled circumstance, like at an event or through mutual friends or something like that, they just welcome you right in. And, and my friend Marie, who lives there, I feel like she's my sister. I, I mean, I pick apples from her orchard. And we make homemade smoothies. Nice. And like, she's like, you can stay here as long as you want. And do you feel the same way as that kind of your perception? Yeah,  

Jason:    00:51:42    For sure. It's, uh, yeah. Like, you mean in Norway, are people friendly here?  

Kristin:    00:51:46    Like at first it, it can take some time to get to meet people, but then once you're in, you're in. Yes. Once you're in the circle of trust,  

Jason:    00:51:53    <laugh>. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. It's, um, yes, every culture is different like that too, right? Like you might go to some places and people are just warm and accepting right away. And I think the, like you, you were spot on with the sort of that Norwegian attitude can feel perhaps a little standoffish, but you know, there's subtle reasons perhaps why. And that, you know, like their version of being polite, for example, is like not talking to somebody on the street where, you know they're just like, that's, they're being polite. They don't wanna bother you. But for Americans like that, being polite is kind of engaging in the small talk, right? Which we're used to. So it's just different. But yes, I think over time it opens up, and I think it's two sided, right? Like people open up to you and also you open up to the nuances of a culture and can understand a bit more about why some things are certain ways and if you don't like it, maybe how to circumvent them.  

Jason:    00:52:46    And of course, one of the big benefits of being, uh, like from out of the country is that even if you want to sort of behave in your own way, like in that, in that example, I'll say, I'm, I'm an American and I go up to somebody on the street and start talking to them 'cause I'm in the mood to like, you know, engage or whatever. You get like a free pass because they know you're not from there, <laugh>. So they're like, yeah, this would be weird if it was another Norwegian, but it's not weird 'cause this guy's just American and he doesn't really know, you know? And so like, you know, even when you make mistakes, I feel like you also get a little, not mistakes I'm using, I could use air quotes there. You know, it's not a mistake to talk somebody on the street, like just be yourself like  

Kristin:    00:53:26    Cultural faux pa kind of  

Jason:    00:53:27    Thing. Yeah. Perhaps. Yeah. Like that's, that's the sort of balance, right? Like you're trying to like assimilate and be a part of the culture, but you also wanna be yourself, but yourself is also a part of your other culture where you come from. But is it, you know, is it just, are you just a product of that culture? Like, do you, what do you hold onto? What do you let go of? You know, I do talk a lot louder, probably even right now just 'cause I'm talking to another American, <laugh>, <laugh>. But when I'm maybe talking to Norwegians, I'm not talking as loud because they don't talk like people from Philadelphia. Like when I go back to Philadelphia now, it literally sounds like my family's screaming at me. <laugh>, <laugh>.  

Jason:    00:54:04    It's just like their normal voice, you know? Yeah. And like, so I do, I need to hold onto that part. Like, no, I, I, you know, but you know, there's parts of you that you still identify with in your home culture, and I feel like some parts you want to keep, but like, you also don't want to, like, we talked a little bit about my, on my show. Like you don't necessarily have to hold onto everything so tightly, it's kind of in flux, which is also a weird thing that happens when you move abroad. It feels like you become untethered from everything you sort of grew up in. And then it makes you kind of more, more aware of what parts of you might just be cultural in fact, and not necessarily parts of your personality. They're just a byproduct of your culture that you grew up in.  

Kristin:    00:54:42    Yeah. I remember being in Oslo and asking my, my friend Marie, I was like, why are there so many strollers? Like, why are there so many babies outside? And it's just because the moms have maternity leave. Like something that I don't notice very often in the United States, whi which has millions and I don't know, a hundred million babies or whatever, but you don't necessarily see people walking their babies in mass. Mm. Like you might see one person with a stroller at Starbucks or on the sidewalk, but for some reason it was just noticeable that there were so many people with strollers in the same areas. And it's just because they're on maternity leave. Mm-Hmm. Like the whole population gets maternity leave, therefore you can actually see the moms rather than the moms being at work and the kids being in daycare. And it's just kind of like little things like that that I didn't even notice when I'm in the US or certain countries. But then I, it's just more prescient when you're in a culture like Norway that has a different kind of social safety net. Yeah,  

Jason:    00:55:45    That's interesting. Yeah. And the, uh, certainly the sort of policy or the systemic makeup of a culture or country can influence like action, right? Like you said, like because of maternity leave, you see therefore, you know, people have time to spend with their kids and you see all the straw. It's just interesting how the way, you know, maybe laws are systemic for systemic reasons might actually change, like sort of the everyday culture. It's interesting. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:56:11    Like behind the scenes regulation or policy has a physical tangible effect in the, in the real world that you can observe. Exactly. It's kind of strange. Yeah. So we're kind of getting to the end of the podcast. There's a million other things I wanted to ask you about. We'll have to have you back on again in the future to cover some other topics, but can we do  

Jason:    00:56:28    It in person when you come to Norway? Yes, <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:56:31    As long as I get to go backstage with the band,  

Jason:    00:56:35    Absolutely. If we're playing a gig, we don't get to play very many, but, uh, hell yeah. <laugh>,  

Kristin:    00:56:41    I was probably in Oslo when, when you were there? I was there 20 16, 20 17. And then 2019.  

Jason:    00:56:48    Okay. Definitely in 20 19, 20 16. It could have been. Yeah. Most likely. Yes.  

Kristin:    00:56:54    Well, as a travel podcaster and me as also a travel YouTuber, and I've talked to other podcasters, content creators about this in the travel space, we tend to travel less when we are, you know, managing our business or creating content and things like that. And of course you have a family as well, but how is your balance now between living in Norway and, and having your roots there? And then also are you getting to, you know, get out and take side trips or do you and your wife have any plans for any long-term travel in the future? Do you, do you see yourself ever being nomadic again or are you kind of in a, in a holding pattern right now? Hmm.  

Jason:    00:57:33    That's a good multi-tiered question. I, uh, I'll say, so the first part is I started the podcast because I was at the tail end of my nomadic days, and I wanted to almost like pay it forward, right? Like, I wanted the information, like I said at the top that I didn't have access to. And at the time when I started like 20 13, 20 14, there weren't really any podcasts like this that were like, you know, sharing, oh, there's wolfing, there's like, this way you can travel that way you can travel, sort of like presenting what I might call the travel tool belt. Like giving people like, sort of food for thought or different perspectives or different practical ways they can travel the world on their terms. And then people can kind of cherry pick the stuff that's most helpful for them. I just wanted to create that resource for people. Yeah.  

Kristin:    00:58:15    People weren't any podcasts at all, really.  

Jason:    00:58:18    Yeah. So I was never like the, oh, this is like, I'm a travel blogger and like this is about me and my travels and, and I have to be traveling to show you and, you know, write about different places and what to do. And that wasn't like my thing. I was just happy and grateful for the travel that I had done. And then I was ready to, I wanted to be a part of the travel industry and I just, I just wanted to be around travel, even though I wasn't traveling as much. I thought it was, I always would light up in inside when I was on the road and people would ask me like, how, how do you get a job like this? Or how do you, you know, how can you travel for so long? Or whatever. And it would just like, get me excited to be able to answer that question and try to help somebody with that.  

Jason:    00:58:55    And so I, yeah, I just made that a part of my work. I'm like, I wanna help people travel. And this is the way it also excites me to do it is through the podcast, through podcasting. And so, like, I don't really, I'm super grateful for my travels and I encourage anybody to get out there and travel the world because it's nice to be at a place when, you know, it's not like I, I'm like, oh, I'm, there's, I still, like, there's a lot of places I still wanna see, but I'm not like, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by living somewhere. Like I was ready to have a family. I was ready to kind of chill out, you know? And that's a good place to be. I don't feel like I'm missing out on traveling because I'm not doing it as much.  

Jason:    00:59:31    So sometimes I still love to travel and I do it when I can and I just can't do it as frequently. But now it's, it just looks different, you know? I did take a trip with my son, he's five years old. I'm just like, Hey, we're gonna do like a, a boys trip, you know? And so this winter we flew to Estonia and had like a handful of days in this hotel with a pool, like that's all a kid wants is a hotel with a pool, right? Oh yeah. And got to like, you know, explore a bit of the old city and uh, and talin and just like, yeah. It's just cool. So like, trying to do stuff like that or taking like a trip with one of my kids, like once every year or two doing family trips. Like a lot of the family trips now involve seeing family, you know, like the, my parents wanna see their grandkids.  

Jason:    01:00:11    So like, we're going back to the states for a few weeks. Um, gonna take 'em to the Jersey shore. 'cause that's something I grew up doing. And so like, kind of like reliving some of the travel experiences I grew up with, you know? Yeah. Trying to give that to them. And, uh, yeah, it's just really gratifying to answer your question on the nomad thing, it's a great place to be. 'cause I had the nomad experience and I think like that could circle back again for me. You know, I have talked to enough families where I know what I need to do to be like nomadic as a family, but I don't really have an interest in it. I don't wanna like manage homeschooling and I don't want my kids to be online all the time. Like, and trying to find like world schooling places around.  

Jason:    01:00:49    I mean, all that stuff's possible. And I, you know, totally am psyched for people that do that and wanna live that. It's just sounds like too much for me. <laugh>. Yeah. You know, I just don't really have that much interest in doing it, but I do love traveling as a family in the right circumstances. And I think like, obviously that evolves as the kids get older and certain things, you know, might open up certain new types of adventures then you could have when they were younger. So I'm really like open to the different styles of traveling. I would love to take like a gap year, like a gap three months or six months with the family and do something like that. But I don't really have any plans. I, I certainly, I don't think my wife does either to be like a nomadic family. But again, it's good to know how to do that.  

Jason:    01:01:31    It's good to be exposed to those ideas. That's what I try to do on the podcast here, to travel, expose people to these ideas that they might not use, but they might use later on. You know, at least you know what the options are. And so yes, trying to take side trips, trying to just, you know, fit it in. But my priority is the kids right now. And that's just, uh, that's the stage of life and, uh, I'm in. But later on, I told my wife, I don't know what, you know, when my kids are older and maybe if they're doing their own thing in school or whatever, they, I don't know when, but I was like, I, I don't know what you're doing andora, but like, I hope you're with me in the winter in someplace warm. But I can tell you I'm not gonna be here in the winter. <laugh> Costa Rica. Yeah. I'm gonna Costa Rica. Uh, it all circles back to Costa Rica. No, but like, yeah, I need, I need to, it'll be nice to get that break in the winter with some sun, so. Yeah. I'm working on it.  

Kristin:    01:02:22    Yeah. I think that's great. You know, you're passing the travel torch and you're in just a season of your life where you have different priorities. And those priorities are having your loftus <laugh>, your kids, your health, your, your routine and stability. And I felt the same way as far as, you know, you can share about travel. Like so many of us, like both of us have gone through so many travel experiences. Like even if we didn't travel anywhere else for the rest of our lives, like we could still talk about it <laugh> Yeah. And share what we've learned. 'cause in the moment you're going so fast that you don't have time to process it and you're just having more experiences building up than you can even communicate about or, or reflect on. And so that's why I really love having the podcast and, and talking to people like you because we get to learn more about what you learned, but then also you learn more about yourself. You, you think of things you remember, things that you know, you might not have thought about in a few years. And hopefully it's the same way for the listeners.  

Jason:    01:03:25    Yeah. And I also get to travel vicariously through the guests. Right. Like, I get to hear about their experiences.. And like, I get, I get to hear about your experiences today and some of the things that, and places that you've gotten to go to. And you know, I talk to some people that'll have an experience that I'll never get to have. Maybe like, I don't know if I'll ever get the bike around the world, but getting to talk to somebody who did is is just like really cool. 'cause I almost feel like I get to have a little bit of that. So you get, you still also get to live the excitement of, it's just like looking at a, you know, traveler loves to look at a guidebook or a magazine or something that talks about a place you've never been. It gets you excited. And getting to have those conversations and share them is such a privilege.  

Kristin:    01:04:03    Yeah, definitely. You know, I, I still think about your conversation with Tom from The World Walk .  

Jason:    01:04:09    Yeah, yeah.  

Kristin:    01:04:10    Whenever I'm walking my dog or my parents' dog sometimes I think, you know, she doesn't go more than a mile. Right. I'm like, how did Tom walk around the world with his dog rest in peace? Savannah, I saw that she just recently passed away. But yeah, like there's things I don't wanna climb probably any mountains, like no Everest, no Kilimanjaro. Like that doesn't resonate with me, but I know a lot of people that have done it or that want to do it. So I love hearing from people that are doing things that I am afraid to do. Or wouldn't want to do, but I wanna know about it. Yeah. So, totally.  

Jason:    01:04:43    Uh,  

Kristin:    01:04:43    Well, amazing. Jason, it's been so great to sit down with you and, and chat and also to be a guest on your podcast as well. So thank you so much. Well, before we, we let you go, do you have any favorite destinations in Norway or, or places that maybe people would wanna check out?  

Jason:    01:05:01    Oh gosh. I mean, I, I'll say one, but they probably won't check it out because usually people come and they check out the things they check out <laugh>. But, uh, we really, when on that original road trip, we stumbled on this place fi, which is, uh, on the west coast and it's right next to this glacier and there's like a camping spot that we stayed at, uh, called Bøyum camping. It's like b that o with the line through it. Oh yeah. yum. And it was just a good location and you know, just surrounded by beauty. And we had a spectacular hike where we ended up, you know, you turn one way and you're looking down a fjord and you turn the other way and you're like looking at a glacier and like the glacial air is blowing in your face like an air conditioner at a freezing cold movie theater or something.  

Jason:    01:05:45    You know, it's weird to compare glacial air to a movie theater air, you know what I mean? <laugh>, but that's kinda like, felt like that cool like air conditioning just pumping on you. Yeah. And just beautiful. And uh, you know, I think it's a good representation of like, there are a lot of these sort of smaller spots in Norway where you can just find just as much beauty as like all of those places that you see on Instagram where like you might be hiking up a, you know, I've been to like the Troll's tongue or like some of these hikes where like Preikestolen where Tom Cruise jumped the motorcycle off of in the, uh, last Mission Impossible. And it's like this flat rock with like this iconic view and like, it's awesome, but like know that when you hike up there, you are in like a line of people hiking up there, you know?  

Jason:    01:06:31    And when we were in fi and hiking up to this glacier, I mean we saw a couple other couples. It's just, there's just a lot of beauty and a lot of places to go. And if you don't do the typical tourist thing and you just kind of maybe get in a rental car and explore or just, you know, find other ways to get to some of these other places, you will get some solitude. You will get some drop dead gorgeous scenery and you will have a wonderful time and you'll connect with, uh, Norwegians for sure. So, you know, just don't be afraid to kind of get off the beaten path a bit. Yeah.  

Kristin:    01:07:05    Definitely. Having a car there is key. And I am adding those places to my list. We'll add them in the show notes. I also like, well I went to, I've been to Bergen and some of those places that you see definitely more people. But the last time I was there I was in futon. Yeah. And I never saw any other people hiking. Yeah, that's great. Only the people that I went with. Yeah.  

Jason:    01:07:26    Were you there in the fall or? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's a good time. Yeah. 'cause summer is can be pretty crazy. I've heard. I haven't been up there actually, so I need to get up there.  

Kristin:    01:07:35    Oh yeah. So pretty, I just love drinking glacier water. 

Jason:    01:07:39    Oh, it's  like a thing. <laugh>. Yeah. I mean, who does  

Kristin:    01:07:41    It? Nothing better. I mean, in Florida we get very highly chlorinated water. So, you know, growing up I just thought that's what water tasted like. Yeah. But then you go to Norway, you know, like the, literally the land of Voss water and you're just drinking water that's just melted off of the glacier. It's like, wow.  

Jason:    01:07:57    Delicious.  

Kristin:    01:07:58    It's the little things, you know. 

Jason:    01:08:00    Totally  <laugh>.  

Kristin:    01:08:02    Well thanks so much Jason. I will let you go and of course like we'll link to everything and I'm sure so many of my listeners already know your wonderful show, Zero to Travel. But if you guys haven't, then definitely jump over there now and, and check out one of his hundreds and hundreds of epic episodes and stories with amazing guests. So to be continued. Thank you, Jason. Look forward to meeting up in person for sure.  

Jason:    01:08:27    Absolutely. Yeah. Can I just say one more thing too? I also have a newsletter at Zero to Travel newsletter. If people sign up, it goes out once a week and it's free and you can get more travel oriented content there and some fun stuff and personal musings and blah, blah blah. But no, it's, uh, I try to, I put a lot of love into that too, so if people want, uh, to get another fun newsletter,  

Kristin:    01:08:47    I better sign up right now. I don't even think I'm on your newsletter. Cool. Zero to Travel newsletter. Yes. Alright. You've got a new reader.  

Jason:    01:08:57    Thank you. Thanks for, uh, letting me share that and thanks for letting me come onto your show and chat. I feel like when the tables turn, I I try to keep quiet and just listen, but then when I, you know, you gotta be careful when you invite another podcaster on your show because I can talk <laugh>, especially after all this coffee I've had <laugh>. But, uh, no, you, you're such a gracious host. I, I do appreciate you really. Thank you so much.  

Kristin:    01:09:19    Thanks Jason. Talk to you soon.  

Jason:    01:09:22    All right, take care.  

Kristin:    01:09:23    Kristin here. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Jason. He just has so much life and travel wisdom to share. If you are new to the Zero to Travel podcast, then definitely hop over there and bookmark some of the episodes that look the most interesting to you. There are plenty to choose from, but before that, make sure to catch my conversation with Jason over on his show where he's interviewing me and I will see you there. And then I'll see you back here for another new episode next week.  

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